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[10:50:04] <lynxlynxlynx> DrMcCoy: http://www.phoronix.com/scan.php?page=news_item&px=MTI1ODc
[10:53:52] <DrMcCoy> Yes, saw that :)
[10:54:30] <DrMcCoy> Also wrote a quick and slightly incoherent (because of sleepyness) post in the forums thread to that article :P
[10:57:05] <lynxlynxlynx> ah ok
[10:57:15] <lynxlynxlynx> might want to save the link
[10:57:46] <lynxlynxlynx> we had a wikipedia page once, but it was taken down due to lack of relevance
[10:57:53] <DrMcCoy> Aww
[10:57:59] <lynxlynxlynx> media clipping is the main argument for that
[10:58:51] <lynxlynxlynx> we've got enough now, but it's just extra work
[10:59:20] <DrMcCoy> Yeah :/
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[14:57:41] <Avenger> Hello everyone and "Merry Xmas" to whom it applies.
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[15:53:55] <edheldil_> Merry Christmas, everybody
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[17:53:28] <rocket_hamster> merry xmas everyone
[17:54:02] <rocket_hamster> just looking into python, it seems to be impossible to increase iterator inside of python for loop, how painful
[17:55:32] <lynxlynxlynx> use a while loop instead
[17:56:26] <gembot> build #145 of osx-xcode-binary is complete: Success [3build successful] Build details are at http://buildbot.gemrb.org/builders/osx-xcode-binary/builds/145
[17:56:40] <rocket_hamster> thanks lynx, i just find it very amusing
[17:57:30] <rocket_hamster> also defining blocks with 4 spaces is funny
[17:58:29] <lynxlynxlynx> i don't think it cares as long as you are consistent
[17:59:25] <lynxlynxlynx> the iterator one sounds like a nice feature though; you'd get mostly bugs by doing such things
[18:00:22] <rocket_hamster> probably by i prefer to have control over the execution and not be limited by it just because it might introduce bugs, its just different aproach to what im used to
[18:00:33] <rocket_hamster> it will get some time for me to adapt i guess
[18:01:00] <rocket_hamster> ruby is even worse there is 20 ways to define a loop
[18:01:02] <rocket_hamster> :D
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[18:05:36] <fuzzie> there's no problem with incrementing an iterator inside a python for loop, if you actually passed it an iterator
[18:05:43] <fuzzie> just tried it, works fine
[18:08:34] <rocket_hamster> you were right about the tab indentation lynx!
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[18:31:07] <brada> thats the first thing you are supposed to learn about python!
[18:35:31] <rocket_hamster> which one brada?
[18:35:42] <brada> the whitespace
[18:39:30] <rocket_hamster> yes literature ive red so far mentiones only 4 whitespaces
[18:40:35] <brada> what a poor book then
[18:41:24] <fuzzie> the official python tutorial doesn't mention 4 spaces until the intermezzo on coding style, where it recommends using 4 spaces and not tabs
[18:42:23] <rocket_hamster> not many good books on python when compared to c / c++
[18:42:38] <fuzzie> but then it recommends wrapping lines to <80 characters to help users with small displays, so let's just assume it was written in the 80s
[18:42:51] <rocket_hamster> :)
[18:43:09] <fuzzie> unfortunately I have no idea about python books/docs/etc. I just learnt it as I went.
[18:43:39] <rocket_hamster> fuzzie do you knwo ruby? what do you think?
[18:44:52] <fuzzie> well, I'm kind of used to python now
[18:45:02] <fuzzie> ruby is a pretty nice core language, but it's ruined by everything else
[18:45:38] <rocket_hamster> well those "blocks" confuse me, there are 20 ways to do anything
[18:46:07] <rocket_hamster> in c there are several building blocks you can do anything with, but in ruby there are too many ways to do one thing
[18:46:09] <rocket_hamster> confusing :/
[18:46:20] <brada> python has multiple ways to do most anything too
[18:46:26] <rocket_hamster> i noticed
[18:46:27] <fuzzie> the many different ways are largely just 'syntactic sugar' though
[18:46:35] <lynxlynxlynx> nobody mentioned perl yet?
[18:46:45] <rocket_hamster> my eyes just bled lynx!
[18:47:03] <rocket_hamster> im evading perl with kilometer footsteps
[18:47:14] <fuzzie> My copies of Programming Perl and the Perl Cookbook are helping keep my monitor at the right height, does that help?
[18:47:23] <brada> heh
[18:48:01] <fuzzie> they are doing an excellent job, but honestly the XML books are more ridiculously huge, so I would recommend XML over Perl at this time
[18:48:15] <lynxlynxlynx> :)
[18:48:58] <fuzzie> it seems that the largest book on my shelf right now is the MS-DOS Encyclopedia, anyone want to try a DOS port..? :-)
[18:49:11] <brada> ew...
[18:49:30] <rocket_hamster> how many pages?
[18:49:45] <fuzzie> It's only ~1600 pages.
[18:49:58] <fuzzie> Just printed on really nice paper.
[18:50:02] <rocket_hamster> that will come in handy in post nuclear winter
[18:50:38] <tomprince> Some people have suggested that learn python the hard way
[18:51:12] <tomprince> I don't really know, though. I just picked it up as well.
[18:51:12] <lynxlynxlynx> those are pretty odd, they do all the coding for you
[18:52:32] <brada> my uni has a very good python course. unfortunately its only taught every other semester.
[18:55:10] <rocket_hamster> where do you study at brada?
[18:55:56] <brada> utah valley university
[18:56:35] <rocket_hamster> hmm us do they teach c/c++ there or is it fully abandoned?
[18:58:27] <brada> a long time ago i took c++ classes there
[18:58:39] <brada> now they seem to focus on java and c# :/
[19:04:02] <brada> http://www.opengl.org/wiki/Common_Mistakes#Paletted_textures
[19:04:14] <brada> that seems promising
[19:04:39] <fuzzie> ah yes, that looks more like the three-line shader I said I thought it should be :-)
[19:04:51] <brada> might have to take a stab at this later
[19:05:15] <brada> unfortunately im currently under a deadline to get a website built by the first :/
[19:05:22] <brada> no christmas break for me
[19:30:06] <lynxlynxlynx> webiste ugh
[19:30:28] <lynxlynxlynx> & simpson claims bards had sorcerer-like spellbooks in iwd2, interesting
[19:40:42] <rocket_hamster> i think they do http://www.gamefaqs.com/pc/552350-icewind-dale-ii/faqs/19051
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[20:54:10] <rocket_hamster> "Class attributes are shared by all instances of your class." roflcopter???
[20:54:13] <rocket_hamster> oh python!
[20:57:54] <fuzzie> yes
[20:57:58] <fuzzie> that's why they're called *class* attributes :P
[21:00:32] <rocket_hamster> good old keywords like static eh
[21:00:50] <rocket_hamster> old days when people actually knew why variable does what it does :D
[21:02:22] <rocket_hamster> i feel like a prehistoric man who was given a shotgun to hunt mammoths
[21:03:55] <rocket_hamster> fuzzy do you define your variables with default value before you assign them value in python or just declare and define when you actually need them?
[21:06:38] <brada> when actually needed of course
[21:07:04] <brada> same as every other language
[21:07:10] <brada> i guess i dont understand what you mean
[21:07:25] <brada> in python a variable doesnt exist until you assign something to is
[21:07:57] <rocket_hamster> well in c you declare variable at start of block, it also makes it nice and easy to see what variables are avaible in certain function or class
[21:08:05] <rocket_hamster> in python you dont have to do this so it can get messy
[21:08:38] <brada> ive never found it to be "messy"
[21:09:01] <rocket_hamster> well after 50 lines of my python code im nearly lost
[21:09:25] <brada> there is nothing stopping you from decaring your variables wherever you like in python
[21:09:44] <rocket_hamster> yes im doing it right now
[21:09:53] <rocket_hamster> maybe thats why it looks messy
[21:09:54] <rocket_hamster> :/
[21:10:05] <lynxlynxlynx> and the opposite is not always the case in c
[21:10:48] <rocket_hamster> well in c you can have a header file
[21:10:57] <rocket_hamster> but if you have some variables in middle of python code ...
[21:11:14] <rocket_hamster> i believe i could get lost easily
[21:11:59] <CamDawg> Heh, just catching up on the scrollback. I think learning Perl is good for everyone.
[21:12:07] <lynxlynxlynx> but you don't put temporaries in the header
[21:12:25] <CamDawg> Since it self-obfuscates, you learn to comment. A lot.
[21:12:33] <lynxlynxlynx> hehe
[21:12:43] <lynxlynxlynx> i have a joke handy
[21:12:53] <lynxlynxlynx> should be lynxlynx.info/MatrixPerl.jpg
[21:13:27] <CamDawg> Must be a hell of a setup, as the punchline is 404.
[21:13:29] <rocket_hamster> CamDawg: Im sure perl developers designed self-obfuscation it on purpose
[21:13:42] <lynxlynxlynx> hmm, nope, but you get the idea
[21:13:57] <CamDawg> All I know is that I now write code like COPY ~a~ ~b~ // copy the file
[21:14:13] <rocket_hamster> lol
[21:15:08] <rocket_hamster> lynxlynxlynx: but lets say you have some kind of public interface or variables how do you make them visible for user in python if they are burried in middle of code?
[21:15:46] <lynxlynxlynx> why would you have a public interface via variables?
[21:21:33] <rocket_hamster> hmm
[21:31:06] <brada> python has introspection anyway :)
[21:32:04] <rocket_hamster> what is that?
[21:41:57] <lynxlynxlynx> metastuff
[21:42:03] <lynxlynxlynx> but bash has it too :D
[21:45:58] <tomprince> rocket_hamster: If you are getting to 50 lines, then you should be breaking things up into smaller chunks
[21:47:13] <rocket_hamster> tomprince: i will, it is highly possible im doing it wrong but for first draft it will have to do
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[22:09:12] <edheldil_> I indent with 4 spaces :-P
[22:11:10] <edheldil_> I strive to assign all significant vars in __init__(), pylint complains otherwise anyway.
[22:14:28] <edheldil_> and python's way is not 10 different ways to do anything, that's Perl way. Python strives to have one good way to achieve a task - whether they succeeded or not is open to debate
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[22:30:01] <lynxlynxlynx> oh yeah, giving rise to one of the best possible arguments: "It's not the $lang way"
[22:30:38] <fuzzie> at least python documents that way by means of 'import this' :-)
[22:42:33] <edheldil_> lynxlynxlynx: do you want to object? :)
[22:42:43] <edheldil_> Hi, guys
[22:43:21] <edheldil_> xmas eve dinner over
[22:43:22] <edheldil_> ?
[22:43:25] <lynxlynxlynx> oj
[22:44:09] <edheldil_> children finally in bed :)
[22:45:06] <edheldil_> DrMcCoy: xoreos looks really nice :)
[22:45:50] <DrMcCoy> :o)
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[23:42:05] <Avenger> lynxlynxlynx: lynxlynx.info/MatrixPerl.jpg is 404 :D
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[23:44:43] <lynxlynxlynx> fine fine, i'll look it up
[23:49:48] <lynxlynxlynx> it's up
[23:56:00] <rocket_hamster> lol
[23:59:02] <CamDawg> Hmm.
[23:59:29] <CamDawg> Now that I can see the jpg, I'm pretty sure that's a Hello World program I wrote.