#gemrb@irc.freenode.net logs for 24 Oct 2012 (GMT)

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[10:54:39] <Avenger> hi
[11:09:43] <rocket_hamster> hello
[11:09:57] <rocket_hamster> avenger do you like baldurs gate multiplayer?
[11:09:58] <rocket_hamster> xD
[11:10:05] <Avenger> no
[11:10:14] <Avenger> i'm behind a firewall anyway
[11:10:30] <rocket_hamster> hmm
[11:10:37] <rocket_hamster> so u r more of single player guy?
[11:15:17] <Avenger> yes
[11:16:08] <Avenger> though nowadays, i don't really play at all
[11:16:30] <Avenger> i just peer at the code :D
[11:18:22] <rocket_hamster> baaaah
[11:18:24] <rocket_hamster> boooooring :)
[11:22:27] <Avenger> well, i would rather play a new game. but these lazy developers don't create any ;)
[11:25:59] <Avenger> i hope project eternity will produce something playable
[11:27:10] <Avenger> gathering 4M from average people on a promise of delivering a game should show interest
[11:28:50] <rocket_hamster> well
[11:28:58] <rocket_hamster> im more afraid its get eaten by publishers
[11:29:00] <rocket_hamster> interests groups
[11:29:08] <rocket_hamster> they are like hyenas
[11:29:30] <rocket_hamster> also, imagine you are in a group of ppl that gets 4m funden, imagine ppl in group asking for more money etc
[11:29:42] <rocket_hamster> its just a huge pile, and they havent done anything yet
[11:29:50] <rocket_hamster> i suspect it can go very wrong
[11:33:46] <wjp> Obsidian is an established decently-sized company, so it's not just a group of random people suddenly getting far more money than they're used to
[11:35:31] <rocket_hamster> hmm true
[11:35:37] <rocket_hamster> why do they ask for crowd funding then
[11:36:12] <rocket_hamster> before they did anything
[11:37:11] <edheldil> well, at least, it's a good publicity stunt
[11:37:15] <rocket_hamster> if they had at least some alpha or concept to show :/
[11:37:27] <wjp> ...then...?
[11:37:53] <rocket_hamster> then i would back it up
[11:37:59] <rocket_hamster> i dont buy "chicken in bag"
[11:38:46] <rocket_hamster> if they want my money for "nothing" (at this point of time) they should at least show they already did something thats my logic for kickstarter
[11:38:56] <edheldil> of course, it can go wrong the way "Duke Nukem Forever" did
[11:39:01] <wjp> sure, it's entirely up to you
[11:39:59] <wjp> and, yes, there's a non-trivial risk involved
[11:40:23] <wjp> (oh, the reason for crowdfunding according to the kickstarter page: "We have wanted to go back to our roots and create an epic PC role-playing game adventure for years. But, it's been almost impossible to get funding through traditional methods for a game like this." )
[11:41:30] <rocket_hamster> wpj they are game dev company its their jobs to create games they will be able to sell, i dont want to sound stupid but their ability to raise money should be end customers problem
[11:41:41] <edheldil> DNF was in a similar position, btw - it was funded by the two lead developers
[11:41:42] <rocket_hamster> if they believe they can get funded by kickstarter why they wont make the game
[11:41:49] <rocket_hamster> and sell it
[11:43:09] <rocket_hamster> but i guess its the economy noone is willing to take a risk nowadays
[11:43:19] <rocket_hamster> everyone wants to get money now, funded by comunity for nothing
[11:43:26] <wjp> you need money to pay salaries long before you have something to sell
[11:43:29] <edheldil> well, it's hard to get anything usable done without a LOT of effort - and the ppl have to eat etc
[11:44:11] <rocket_hamster> btw kickstarter doesnt have any legal right to make them deliver the rewards if im not mistaken
[11:44:18] <wjp> of course not
[11:44:50] <rocket_hamster> its same as if i said, pay me 1k to fix your roof NOW and then i will "probably" fix it later
[11:44:52] <rocket_hamster> see the logic?
[11:45:08] <wjp> no
[11:45:12] <rocket_hamster> :)
[11:45:26] <rocket_hamster> usualy in RL noone will pay you beforehand
[11:45:41] <edheldil> well, travelling agencies do it all the time - and some go bankrupt, standing ppl abroad :)
[11:45:43] <wjp> I'm not sure what your point is
[11:45:43] <rocket_hamster> if they do its on contract = legaly prosecutable
[11:47:16] <rocket_hamster> i think my point would be they are shifting the responsibility to end user
[11:47:32] <edheldil> risk, not responsibility
[11:47:33] <rocket_hamster> but if end user is ok with that it shouldnt concern me right
[11:48:10] <rocket_hamster> ok risk is better term i guess
[11:48:29] <wjp> personally I'm quite happy people have been willing to spend $4M on a potentially good game :-)
[11:48:46] <edheldil> and strictly speaking, kickstarter crowd ⊂ endusers
[11:48:47] <rocket_hamster> and all what it needs is one or two failed projects / abandonned ones and whole kickstarter community will crumble
[11:49:45] <wjp> well, we'll see. I'm not quite that pessimistic
[11:49:59] <rocket_hamster> and my bottom line is in my opinion, some (rather large) companies are trying to leverage maybe abuse a good thing that was imo designed for small groups and startups, and as we know big companies have a bad habbit of destorying good things
[11:50:09] <wjp> but chances are there'll be failed projects
[11:50:52] <edheldil> there already were, somebody is even suing some happless guy who wanted to produce some iShit
[11:52:08] <wjp> I'm very curious to see where this goes, but I'm cautiously optimistic
[11:52:28] <edheldil> and of course, Eterninty going the DNF way would be a huge blow to KS morale
[11:53:06] <rocket_hamster> i cant find DNF acronym
[11:53:08] <rocket_hamster> what does it mean?
[11:53:09] <wjp> I could imagine it converging to kickstarters providing initial funding, and then bigger publishers stepping in once it's clear there's a market
[11:53:15] <wjp> duke nukem forever
[11:53:18] <edheldil> see above, Duke Nukem Forever
[11:53:20] <rocket_hamster> oh ok
[11:53:38] <wjp> s/bigger/traditional/
[11:53:41] <rocket_hamster> wjp that would be the worst case scenario :)
[11:53:54] <rocket_hamster> once publisher is involved its over
[11:54:29] <rocket_hamster> ie i cant buy skyrim (digital copy) in slovakia unless i go to shop and buy dvd, which i wont ofc
[11:54:36] <rocket_hamster> and im sure im not only one
[11:54:36] <edheldil> well, I would be cautious to call it "worst" case scenario
[11:54:44] <wjp> I think I've reached my cynicism quota for this afternoon. Back to doing useful stuff :-)
[11:54:51] <rocket_hamster> some publisher bought the rights to sell to all easter europe and its over
[11:55:05] <wjp> see you later
[11:55:08] <rocket_hamster> cya
[11:55:24] <edheldil> wjp - too bad you did not come to Grolle :)
[11:55:50] <wjp> edheldil: I wasn't in the country unfortunately
[11:56:30] <edheldil> rocket_hamster: what's you problem with Skyrim? At least at this side of "Gargamelský průliv" you can buy it in shops
[11:56:47] <rocket_hamster> i want digital dl copy
[11:56:53] <rocket_hamster> not physical dvd
[11:57:14] <rocket_hamster> as i dont use dvds anymore
[11:57:36] <edheldil> well, the physical dvd downloads it from steam anyway, if I am not mistaken
[11:57:52] <rocket_hamster> :)
[11:58:26] <rocket_hamster> its just not an option for me
[11:58:35] <rocket_hamster> i just want digital steam version like rest of the world
[11:58:40] <rocket_hamster> but i cant because of publisher
[11:59:10] <edheldil> hmmm .... so you mean you can't buy it from Steam?
[11:59:15] <rocket_hamster> nope
[11:59:39] <rocket_hamster> from czech rep to russia you cant buy it
[11:59:40] <rocket_hamster> on steam
[11:59:46] <rocket_hamster> also you cant buy DLCs
[12:00:09] <edheldil> hmmm ... When I was installing it for my father here in Prague, the dvd's basically installed steam client that downloaded it from steam
[12:00:56] <rocket_hamster> yes, but still you need your dvd
[12:01:20] <rocket_hamster> and what happens when your dvd breaks
[12:01:23] <rocket_hamster> you need another one?
[12:01:33] <edheldil> well, we live in a fscking part of the worls :)
[12:01:47] <rocket_hamster> nah, its just publishers
[12:02:16] <rocket_hamster> i like humble indie bundles, you pay with card, download, play, whole process takes less than 10 mins
[12:02:25] <rocket_hamster> no publisher/company/drm crap
[12:02:32] <edheldil> I **think** that you don't need the DVD afterwards
[12:02:55] <edheldil> sure
[12:03:07] <edheldil> or GOG
[12:03:18] <wjp> https://support.steampowered.com/kb_article.php?ref=7480-WUSF-3601
[12:03:22] <wjp> (but I'm really gone :-) )
[12:03:50] <wjp> (that seems to claim that if you have a skyrim dvd key, you can just add it to your steam library using that key without using the dvd at all?)
[12:04:03] <Avenger> even if obsidian fails, the kickstarter showed that there are potential customers for this kind of game
[12:04:48] <rocket_hamster> good point
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[18:50:47] <Beholder> hi
[18:54:09] <lynxlynxlynx> oj
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[19:22:11] <roggi> anyone here?
[19:22:56] <roggi> srsly no one?
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[19:28:03] <Beholder> lynx, where are I can found gemrb log now? Android log does not process gemrb messages...
[19:28:47] <lynxlynxlynx> in the game dir if it is writable
[19:29:08] <lynxlynxlynx> /tmp or $HOME next
[19:30:29] <Beholder> hm, writable but no log file present, may be i need to set parameter in config
[19:35:45] <lynxlynxlynx> no
[19:35:59] <lynxlynxlynx> you're on latest gemrb?
[19:36:13] <lynxlynxlynx> the filename is the same as before, GemRB.log
[19:41:42] <Beholder> i think this appears because i force close gemrb. file not closed = not saved. touchscreen don't work on android, i can't close gemrb properly
[19:48:58] <Beholder> i see android logger write to androidlog, not to file. odd
[19:52:49] <Beholder> StdioLogger write log to file?
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[20:51:34] <lynxlynxlynx> no
[20:51:53] <lynxlynxlynx> but these loggers are not exclusive afaik
[20:53:32] <lynxlynxlynx> it's the FileLogger that does the one in gamedir/cache/tmp
[21:04:28] <Beholder> I think pointers to functions does not work on Android or maybe STL/vector issue:
[21:04:29] <Beholder> theLogger[i]->log(level, owner, buf, color); // this line not functional
[21:04:49] <Beholder> I temporary added a hack
[21:08:29] <Beholder> what this code do? : GetModState(SDL_GetModState())
[21:13:10] <Beholder> ah, found. special keys...
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[22:33:39] <raevol> just wanted to report, I got the widescreen mod working for bg1 on gemrb linux
[22:33:45] <raevol> used the windows widescreen installer in wine
[22:34:24] <raevol> i notice the bottom bar has a large black portion isntead of resizing the dialogue window, but i assume that's a wontfix, or it's because i picked variable resiolutions
[22:34:58] <raevol> also, i am getting a direwolf encounter on the first area after gorion is killed, but that's from an old savegame from probably an old version, so i need to start a new game to verify
[22:35:06] <raevol> blahblahblah :) just reporting
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