#gemrb@irc.freenode.net logs for 29 Nov 2009 (GMT)

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[16:39:38] <tomprince> Bug #2843547 can be closed.
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[19:50:32] <Edheldil> Hi all
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[20:52:20] <Avenger> fine, the game is over and the outcome was almost perfect
[20:52:54] <Avenger> i doubt i will play it soon again, though
[21:01:11] <lynxlynxlynx> took you a long time
[21:01:29] <lynxlynxlynx> 18 users here :o
[21:04:56] <Avenger> yes, for two reasons: i did all quests i could find, 2. the flicker bug caused many crashes and i had to redo stuff, and sometimes i just stopped playing for that day after a particularly bad crash
[21:05:28] <Avenger> i didn't hit the level cap, so it is high enough
[21:06:12] <lynxlynxlynx> did you play all the origins?
[21:07:22] <Avenger> no, i played the dalish elf only up to level 9, and didn't play anything else than the mages
[21:07:53] <Avenger> i stopped the dalish one because a random encounter always killed me
[21:09:24] <Avenger> the archer encounters are unbalanced, without aoe spells they are impossible
[21:09:40] <lynxlynxlynx> nah
[21:09:49] <lynxlynxlynx> people already solo the game
[21:10:01] <lynxlynxlynx> or just use melee only parties
[21:10:16] <Avenger> those people surely didn't meet the rough path encounter on level 9
[21:11:01] <Avenger> besides this game is impossible to solo
[21:11:15] <lynxlynxlynx> technically
[21:11:16] <Avenger> there is at least one puzzle which requires full party
[21:11:53] <Avenger> the end battle is definitely doable in solo :)
[21:12:34] <Edheldil> Hi, Avenger, Lynx
[21:12:38] <Avenger> hi Ed
[21:13:03] <lynxlynxlynx> oj
[21:13:35] <Edheldil> Got my computer working again, finally
[21:15:28] <lynxlynxlynx> what went bad?
[21:15:49] <Edheldil> I experienced disk crash, netbook os-hosing crash, car breakage, home router death and moving at more or less the same time
[21:16:46] <lynxlynxlynx> beshaba0s favourite huh
[21:17:03] <Edheldil> god bless raid-0
[21:17:38] <Edheldil> hehe
[21:17:58] <Edheldil> have you completed bg2 speed run, Avenger?
[21:18:12] <Avenger> no
[21:19:54] <Avenger> i didn't even start it :)
[21:20:25] <lynxlynxlynx> i did two ;)
[21:20:34] <Avenger> i didn't even know i was supposed to do one
[21:20:59] <lynxlynxlynx> and for the last release a complete iwd game and reavol did a run through bg1
[21:21:17] <lynxlynxlynx> but we didn't announce it to everyone
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[21:23:15] <Edheldil> Ah, I thought you were talking about speed run: <Avenger> fine, the game is over and the outcome was almost perfect
[21:23:49] <lynxlynxlynx> nah, that's dragon age
[21:26:41] <Edheldil> hehe. Origins? Does it work under wine?
[21:27:13] <lynxlynxlynx> let's see if anyone tried yet
[21:27:42] <Edheldil> I can goole too. I hoped some of you did run it :)
[21:28:12] <lynxlynxlynx> http://appdb.winehq.org/objectManager.php?sClass=application&iId=10457 apparently it does
[21:28:42] <Avenger> wow, it works under wine?
[21:29:22] <Avenger> i wonder if it is any more stable than under win xp :)
[21:31:27] <Edheldil> good, I bought one for my father, now I have to find excuse for the missing shrinkwrap ;-)
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[21:42:05] <CIA-12> gemrb: 03avenger_teambg * r7437 10/gemrb/trunk/gemrb/plugins/Core/Map.cpp: don't crash on NULL tint
[21:47:20] <tomprince> I just didn't want to duplicate the calculation.
[21:51:21] <tomprince> I was wondering about the python interface. It seems very limited and imperative right now. I was wondering if that was a deliberate design decision, or if nobody had implemented anything richer yet.
[21:52:18] <fuzzie> No-one's really proposed anything which would improve things.
[21:52:43] <tomprince> In particular, I created a 1280x1024 chu/mos for the world map, but had to handcode the dimensions in GUIMA. I looked to see if there was any way to get the size of the button from the chu.
[21:53:15] <tomprince> Well, I was simply thing of doing things like exposing the controls as objects, rather than wrappers around a bunch of function calls.
[21:53:33] <fuzzie> But that doesn't actually *solve* very much.
[21:53:40] <fuzzie> We don't want anything python in Core/ so you're going to have to wrap anyway.
[21:54:02] <Edheldil> on the other hand, the wrapper is too thick in many places
[21:54:18] <fuzzie> Obviously the interface could be a *lot* better, though.
[21:55:23] <tomprince> It seemed the interface was just exactly what was required. Which is understandable, but the way it is implemented doesn't seem to lead to easily exposing everything to python.
[21:55:54] <tomprince> Mostly, I was just asking if it was delibrate to expose just a limited interface to python, or if I coded up somthing more general if it would be accepted.
[21:56:41] <Edheldil> the reason is that the api is created ad hoc, whenever someone needs something driven by python
[21:56:50] <fuzzie> The design is from before my time, but I think it's just the way it evolved from the basics.
[21:57:15] <tomprince> That's what I figured.
[21:57:25] <fuzzie> I can't imagine anyone objecting to something better which lives entirely in GUIScript/ and doesn't add a dependency.
[21:57:39] <fuzzie> But with those demands people usually lose interest, to be honest.
[21:58:31] <fuzzie> You can see that wjp tried wrapping with objects on the python side, even that relatively small change has made the code a lot more manageable imo.
[21:58:32] <Edheldil> don't forget to add '... and not much slower than before'
[21:58:58] <tomprince> I was doing some research on what would be required, and it seems that the only reasonable way to add a rich python interface is to use something like pyrex, which seems to write all the boilerplate python needs to implement objects.
[21:59:31] <tomprince> Although, as a dependency, it can be run at development time, and the C code it generates shipped in tarballs.
[21:59:43] <tomprince> And it doesn't seem to add any runtime dependency.
[21:59:52] <tomprince> Although I have actually tried to implement anything yet.
[22:00:13] <Edheldil> does it run under windoze?
[22:00:51] <fuzzie> Last time I looked at Pyrex-generated code I think it was pretty lightweight in terms of demands.
[22:00:55] <wjp> cython/pyrex are very portable, and python themselves
[22:01:20] <wjp> the output just targets the python C api
[22:01:35] <fuzzie> Well, I'm not sure how well it compiles under VC++6 :)
[22:01:46] <wjp> there is that :-)
[22:02:29] <Edheldil> why can't Avenger get a demo license of VC? I believe such things exist ...
[22:02:43] <fuzzie> Edheldil: because they don't come with MFC
[22:02:56] <fuzzie> which is what all his other code depends upon
[22:03:05] <Edheldil> ahh
[22:03:42] <tomprince> There other question I had about interfaces, was about the plugin systems.
[22:03:45] <fuzzie> I like Pyrex very much for writing extensions, but have never tried it with C++.
[22:04:32] <tomprince> There is some documentation on the cython wiki about wrapping C++ code, and it appears that if you aren't doing anything fancy, then it should work.
[22:05:16] <tomprince> I am working on a TIZ file plugin. And it seems that to integrate it, I need to touch a bunch of different places in other plugins.
[22:05:56] <wjp> tomprince: I hacked together some python wrapper classes for some of the gui controls. It could/should be extended to Actor classes as well
[22:06:01] <fuzzie> Yes, I encountered that problem actually making the OGG plugin work. Fixing it would be nice.
[22:06:15] <Edheldil> where is TIZ used? it's TIS+z comp, right?
[22:06:29] <fuzzie> Fixing the python interface to be able to reference non-party actors would be nice also..
[22:06:41] <wjp> the plugin interface seems to confuse loading/importing and storing
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[22:07:05] <tomprince> It would seem to make more sense if, for example the TIS and TIZ plugins registered as being able to create TileSetMgr's, and what type of file it needs for it. And then anything that needed a TileSetMgr would just ask for one.
[22:07:31] <wjp> yes
[22:08:05] <tomprince> TIZ is compressed TIS. Each tile is compressed individually, with 3 formats, either zlib, zlib+jpeg, or jpeg. The compression program tries all 3 and uses the most efficient.
[22:08:13] <fuzzie> I'm sure we'd accept a patch to fix that, if everything stayed working. :-)
[22:08:38] <tomprince> I have a working plugin that implements the zlib coded tiles.
[22:09:03] <tomprince> Which (theoretically) should work for all but 1 tileset in the Classical Adventures mod.
[22:09:50] <tomprince> Which is where TIZ files are used, although it would probably be possible to TIZ the files that come with the original games, to shrink the installation footprint.
[22:09:55] <Edheldil> and (seeing easy target) why the one does not work?
[22:09:57] <fuzzie> If you *do* do that, take a look at the IE_WAV_CLASS_ID/IE_OGG_CLASS_ID attempt in OpenALAudio, which also really needs converting to that.
[22:10:09] <wjp> and some hack somewhere with PNGs
[22:10:15] <fuzzie> Mmhm.
[22:10:53] <tomprince> Yes, those were the other two use cases that I had noticed a the moment.
[22:10:55] <Edheldil> do the original engines cope with TIZ?
[22:11:01] <tomprince> No.
[22:11:20] <tomprince> It just saves on the downloads.
[22:12:47] <Edheldil> so it is/would be gemrb-only feature, or is it something weidu does? Pardon my ignorance, I was away for too long
[22:12:48] <wjp> I wonder if the original purpose of plugin Class/SuperClass was something like this
[22:12:54] <tomprince> For CA, the tiz files are ~1.1G, and the TIS are ~2.3G.
[22:13:36] <tomprince> Well, mods that ship with TIZ files, include a program to convert them back to tis files, for the original engine to use.
[22:13:43] <Edheldil> wjp: my guess is that's is copy&paste from some other code. It seems to be needlessly complex
[22:14:06] <tomprince> This would just allow GemRB to use them directly, saving space.
[22:14:14] <wjp> because it would be kind of useful to have a plugin have a 'superclass', like 'tileset', and a class, like TISImporter/TIZImporter
[22:15:15] <tomprince> That already seems to be implemented, in TilseSetMgr. I do have it working, I just need to check in WEDImp.cpp manually for both types of files, rather than leaving it up to the resource manager to find the files.
[22:16:09] <fuzzie> It might be sensible to provide a patch for that first, and then work on the resource manager seperately, if you're going to.
[22:17:34] <Edheldil> get it committed before it starts to bitrot :)
[22:17:46] <tomprince> The other thing about implementing it is that right now, WAV files always override OGG files, even if the OGG is in the in the override, and the WAV is in the biffs. I think it would make sense if the first file that provides a resource in the search path is used, whatever the format.
[22:18:21] <wjp> good point
[22:18:51] <tomprince> The TIZImporter? It isn't done yet, and copy&pastes some code from TISImporter, since one of the tile formats is just zlib'ed TIS tile format.
[22:19:31] <tomprince> I would rather right the plugin stuff first, rather than finishing the TIZImporter. Though if someone else wanted to implement the other two formats, I could post the code I have now.
[22:20:50] <tomprince> And I couldn't understand the Class/SuperClass stuff, so I just use random numbers. :)
[22:21:02] <Edheldil> everybody does
[22:22:00] <fuzzie> yes, i think the secret of how that's meant to work left us with balrog
[22:22:51] <Edheldil> hmm, maybe the time is ripe to finally redesign the plugins ;-)
[22:22:52] <wjp> I don't mind reworking it to better fit our idea of it :-)
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[22:28:12] <CIA-12> gemrb: 03avenger_teambg * r7438 10/gemrb/trunk/gemrb/plugins/Core/ (5 files): fix for bug #2905540
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