#gemrb@irc.freenode.net logs for 2 Nov 2011 (GMT)

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[04:05:13] <CIA-26> GemRB: 03bradallred * r9c88de4030ac 10gemrb/gemrb/plugins/SDLVideo/SDLVideo.cpp: SDLVideo: beware of multiple consecutive SDL_FINGER_MOTIONs when deciding to pop the console.
[04:05:23] <CIA-26> GemRB: 03bradallred * r138333fba635 10gemrb/gemrb/plugins/SDLVideo/CocoaWrapper.m:
[04:05:23] <CIA-26> GemRB: CocoaWrapper - SDLVideo:
[04:05:23] <CIA-26> GemRB: add an accessory view to the soft keyboard with a ctrl toggle button. Now cheat keys can be used on iOS.
[04:05:23] <CIA-26> GemRB: 03bradallred * r2b8e8e23c959 10gemrb/gemrb/plugins/SDLVideo/SDLVideo.cpp: SDLVideo: console is always popped on soft keyboard hide so don't pop here.
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[09:35:33] <Beh0lder> hi all
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[10:20:58] <edheldil> Hi
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[10:29:48] <taimon> hey guys
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[10:36:58] <edheldil> Hi, taimon
[10:42:14] <fuzzie> yes, hello
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[10:52:22] <taimon> How is it going? IE community still as active as a year ago?
[10:56:29] <fuzzie> there's certainly a lot of interest around here recently. not keeping track of the community in general myself.
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[10:59:05] <taimon> what kind of interest? gemrb on mobile devices?
[11:00:43] <fuzzie> yes. i had a poke at the android one myself but it seems far too annoying to use atm :)
[11:01:16] <taimon> :)
[11:02:50] <fuzzie> the tablets are really lovely platforms for playing this kind of game
[11:05:58] <taimon> never had one. what about the user interface? touch is enough?
[11:06:12] <fuzzie> if you do it right
[11:06:19] <fuzzie> which is a lot of work..
[11:08:20] <fuzzie> and why i find gemrb on android too annoying to use, no real input customisation at all :)
[11:11:56] <taimon> yeah, and I guess the immersion factor isn't that good as well
[11:12:34] <fuzzie> well, difficult to tell :)
[11:12:43] <fuzzie> i don't think there's anything remotely in that style available
[11:15:21] <taimon> i agree, although i haven't played any new games for a long time
[11:16:39] <taimon> you guys are all using IDA now for reversing, right?
[11:16:40] <fuzzie> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7MNqoopWDVk (Dungeon Defenders on the iPad) is the most well-executed game I tried on this, I think, and it works marvellously, but the input it uses is so very tablet-customised
[11:16:49] <fuzzie> well, i am using a mix of IDA and custom tools
[11:17:08] <taimon> yeah, the debugger is crap :)
[11:17:24] <fuzzie> since they won't sell me IDA Professional and the powerpc disasm is a lot more useful
[11:17:55] <taimon> they won't sell you?
[11:18:09] <fuzzie> that's the new name for the high-end one (was IDA Pro Advanced)
[11:18:29] <taimon> gee, i've been gone for too long :)
[11:18:52] <fuzzie> but i have far too much REed and not enough implemented anyway. always the way. :/
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[11:19:49] <taimon> hehe, i know exactly what you mean
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[13:15:37] <lynxlynxlynx> o hi
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[15:38:47] <brad_a> fuzzie: gemrb does support a multiotouch interface that works very well (IMO, but then again i programmed it) it only doesnt work on android because the SDL they use doesnt support multitouch events. http://gemrb.sourceforge.net/wiki/doku.php?id=install:ios#touch_input
[15:41:25] <fuzzie> right, but not very helpful to me in a personal sense since it doesn't work on any android builds i can get :p
[15:42:48] <brad_a> true, but i think once they use an sdl with multitouch you will be pleaasantly supprised. assuming that the implementation is compatible and the screen is decent
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[15:43:34] <fuzzie> but yes, the android SDL thing is terrible
[15:43:38] <fuzzie> and that doesn't help
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[15:45:44] <brad_a> nope it makes me sad :(
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[15:49:39] <fuzzie> the upstream one isn't really nice either
[15:51:02] <fuzzie> and it trusts eglChooseConfig....
[15:52:01] <fuzzie> so, yes, grmph.
[15:52:15] <brad_a> is that a fault of SDL or a fault of android. it sounds like eglConfig ought to be trusted.
[15:52:32] <fuzzie> yes, so as long as you don't want to run on real-world android devices, all is well
[15:55:15] <brad_a> i wonder if Beh0lder is/can make the TTF font plugin work oon android when its available
[15:55:31] <fuzzie> well, i guess you'd have to make SDL_ttf work first?
[15:56:19] <brad_a> and freetype2
[15:56:37] <brad_a> but i was able to compile both for ios without a problem
[15:56:40] <fuzzie> i kinda assume that's already present
[15:56:52] <fuzzie> yeah, but your SDL doesn't depend on Java.. :P
[15:56:53] <brad_a> yeah i would too but i thought the same about ios
[15:57:14] <brad_a> ha ha yeah but he already has to build sdl so that should be covered i hope
[15:57:30] <fuzzie> yeah, but it's a bit more fiddly to load native libraries
[15:57:41] <brad_a> really?
[15:57:56] <brad_a> im glad i have ever had the desire to code for android
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[15:58:35] <brad_a> despite owning an android phone instead onf an iphone
[15:58:54] <fuzzie> well: it's fine on Android 2.3+
[15:58:59] <fuzzie> but no-one has Android 2.3+.
[16:01:33] <fuzzie> so yeah it's horrible :)
[16:09:18] <brad_a> how is the text cursor in gemrb done? loaded from some game resource or created by the engine?
[16:12:46] <lynxlynxlynx> cursor[s].bam maybe
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[16:25:06] <brad_a> yup cursorbam
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[17:02:31] <CIA-44> GemRB: 03lynxlupodian * r65231dfcd306 10gemrb/gemrb/ (8 files in 4 dirs): implemented Auto Pause Center
[17:09:53] <CIA-44> GemRB: 03lynxlupodian * r75a5ce726e53 10gemrb/gemrb/core/Scriptable/Scriptable.cpp:
[17:09:53] <CIA-44> GemRB: only trigger the spellcast autopause when in combat or buffing becomes
[17:09:53] <CIA-44> GemRB: very annoying
[17:10:39] <brad_a> ^ ha ha i can imagine
[17:12:11] <lynxlynxlynx> it seems we don't have many hardcore players yet
[17:12:24] <chiv> *cough*
[17:12:27] <lynxlynxlynx> that one was in for atleast the last two releases
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[17:12:45] <lynxlynxlynx> but that's the first complaint :)
[17:13:37] <Yoshimo> i have missed it but i didnt complain ;)
[17:14:27] <chiv> well I'm resolved only to make complaints if the game breaks anyway...
[17:16:25] <chiv> so not much to complain about :)
[17:17:13] <brad_a> this is by far the most complete project like this i have ever seen
[17:17:34] <brad_a> and the most cross platform
[17:18:27] <lynxlynxlynx> we want to know about any problems that are not yet on the wiki
[17:18:48] <lynxlynxlynx> such small tidbits are great for newcomers or when you have little time
[17:19:38] <brad_a> ill second that as one of the newcommers :)
[17:19:46] <chiv> well, I have been keeping a code journal, so I could start a bug journal
[17:20:08] <brad_a> ^wiki
[17:20:17] <brad_a> just make yourself a wiki page
[17:21:12] <chiv> yeah that would work, luckily I have a spare netbook so its pretty painless flicking back and forth
[17:22:10] <fuzzie> brad_a: that makes me wonder if there are any useable similar projects
[17:22:32] <brad_a> i havent seen any TBH
[17:22:49] <chiv> you mean specific for ie games?
[17:23:00] <brad_a> well the aleph one project was mre complete and well done but they had the original source code :-P
[17:23:13] <fuzzie> i am thinking reimplementation projects for a complex modern C++ game
[17:23:24] <brad_a> and the blessing of bungie to use the game resources in distributions
[17:23:36] <brad_a> is IE really modern?
[17:23:46] <fuzzie> i think so
[17:24:07] <chiv> I can only think of one re-implementation, strife (which was a 1st person adventure for the doom engine)
[17:24:28] <brad_a> was that a mod? because a mod is diffrent
[17:24:43] <brad_a> gemrb is a ground up rewrite
[17:24:43] <chiv> well it was a commercial game
[17:25:16] <chiv> but the code was never released. people used the existing doom source though so that probably doesnt count
[17:25:20] <chiv> what about scummvm?
[17:25:33] <fuzzie> the games supported by scummvm are a lot simpler
[17:26:08] <fuzzie> although wjp might now glare at me after spending time REing SCI stuff
[17:26:35] <fuzzie> wjp has worked on Exult and Pentagram, also reimplementations of RPGs
[17:26:51] <wjp> oh, you're right, IE is far more complex :-)
[17:28:18] <chiv> I reckon it goes to show how impressive gemrb is
[17:28:55] <chiv> although I suppose lots of people have been picking apart the game files for a very long time
[17:31:23] <chiv> there isnt any original code, but seems like nearly every facet of the game is splayed out on iesdp
[17:31:38] <Yoshimo> http://iesdp.gibberlings3.net/ proofs that
[17:32:19] <Yoshimo> credits: Peripheral thanks to:
[17:32:19] <Yoshimo> Datarescue (IDA Pro) :D
[17:34:51] <chiv> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Game_engine_recreation
[17:35:20] <lynxlynxlynx> iesdp and everything? hah
[17:36:00] <lynxlynxlynx> grr, reminds me of our wikipedia page
[17:36:26] <lynxlynxlynx> need to make some noise next release, so we get some external coverage
[17:36:29] <Yoshimo> oh starcraft is on the list too^^
[17:36:56] <lynxlynxlynx> fuzzie: will you have time for the irenicus crash?
[17:40:16] <Yoshimo> lynx, noise so you might get people to report more bugs and help coding?
[17:40:53] <lynxlynxlynx> that too
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[17:54:55] <chiv> i have a question about the current gui enhancements - what exactly are they and where ?
[17:56:02] <chiv> well actually im just trying to work out how to make my changes optional
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[17:58:30] <brad_a> thats a good question. searching the source for use of GUIEnhancements interface variable it doesnt appear that its used. probably means it is used in the guiscripts only?
[17:58:49] <fuzzie> yes.
[17:59:49] <brad_a> look like 5 scripts use it
[18:01:47] <chiv> i just need to make it so it doesnt cry when it only finds 12 buttons instead of my 24 - I needed to make a new window to do this because the action bar window is too small
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[18:07:28] <Yoshimo> the wiki pages of gemrb.org are really boring indeed
[18:08:07] <lynxlynxlynx> chiv: they're used for some extra scrollbars and similar to support unlimited spells/classes/kits
[18:08:07] <lynxlynxlynx> stuff like that
[18:08:16] <lynxlynxlynx> Yoshimo: yeah, the default theme sucks
[18:08:24] <lynxlynxlynx> too bad that guy on the forum is not responsive
[18:10:10] <Yoshimo> i have to say though, that i prefer content and a good piece of software, not some fancy graphics ;)
[18:10:45] <brad_a> well the wiki is lacking that too. that reminds me i never did resize those images...
[18:17:38] <lynxlynxlynx> Yoshimo: well, it's a wiki, so feel free to improve it
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[18:39:48] <chiv> I presume the gui enhancements are optional because they ignore chu files, so I will do the same
[18:42:14] <lynxlynxlynx> yes, it's a cfg option
[18:42:48] <lynxlynxlynx> they're optional, so radical chu mods stay compatible
[18:43:15] <lynxlynxlynx> not that i know any
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[19:13:55] <fuzzie> lynxlynxlynx: when're you planning next release? :p
[19:14:25] <lynxlynxlynx> i was hoping end of the year
[19:14:29] <fuzzie> ah,
[19:14:36] <fuzzie> ok.
[19:14:49] <lynxlynxlynx> i seemed to have screwed up a few things though, so maybe sooner would be better
[19:14:56] <lynxlynxlynx> much less symbolic though
[19:15:08] <lynxlynxlynx> and we're pretty slow atm
[19:15:43] <lynxlynxlynx> so end of dec sounds good
[19:15:49] <lynxlynxlynx> that ends my thinking out loud :)
[19:16:44] <fuzzie> well, builds are a lot less annoying for me on this new machine
[19:18:08] <lynxlynxlynx> cool
[19:18:37] <lynxlynxlynx> you're still my criterion for upgrading the minor version number though
[19:19:40] <lynxlynxlynx> once that silly crash is done, a speedrun is in order to check if everything else is still working as intended and then we have a major win
[19:21:24] <fuzzie> mm
[19:49:03] <chiv> I need n00b help, I'm trying to get the status of guienhancements from the guiscript plugin but I'm not sure how
[19:49:35] <brad_a> you probably want to use an entirely new setting for what you are doing
[19:49:50] <brad_a> but to test with that is fine
[19:50:29] <brad_a> did you look at what the current scripts are doing?
[19:50:33] <chiv> right, eg GUIModifications?
[19:51:02] <chiv> its not the python scripts causing me trouble, just the c++ part
[19:51:19] <brad_a> oh just core->GUIEnhancements
[19:51:32] <chiv> thats what i thought, no go though
[19:52:00] <chiv> I did int buttoncount = GUIBT_COUNT * core->GUIEnhancements;
[19:52:37] <brad_a> you are multiplying?
[19:52:38] <chiv> doh
[19:52:47] <chiv> sorry, brain error
[19:52:47] <lynxlynxlynx> no need for a new variable, we can make it a bitfield
[19:52:53] <brad_a> oh yes
[19:52:58] <brad_a> i like that idea lynx
[19:53:28] <chiv> I don't know why I thought that would work
[19:53:32] <lynxlynxlynx> "to increase the level of awesome, increment this variable"
[19:53:45] <brad_a> nice 8)
[19:54:13] <chiv> I think this means I need to eat or something
[19:57:05] <chiv> so you are saying it should be GUIEnhancements = 1 means minor changes, 2 means more?
[19:57:49] <lynxlynxlynx> afair the current code just checks if it is set/nonzero, so it should impose no new changes
[19:58:02] <brad_a> no a bitfield. so: 0001 = current gui enhancements, 0010 = what you are doing and 0011 would be both etc
[19:58:19] <lynxlynxlynx> 10 == 2 :)
[19:58:30] <brad_a> well yes but you know what i was gettin at
[19:58:40] <lynxlynxlynx> why complicate the matter?
[19:59:00] <chiv> well I understand anyway :)
[19:59:29] <brad_a> i want trying to complicate i just wasnt sure if he meant 2 as in 10 or not :-P
[19:59:46] <brad_a> cuz a new option wouldnt be 3 it would be 4
[20:01:15] <Yoshimo> there are only 10 types of people, those who understand binary and those who dont
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[20:24:46] <chiv> hmph, now I seem to have broken left/right buttons
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[21:16:06] <brad_a> does gemrb use any modifier keys besides shift and ctrl?
[21:16:47] <brad_a> specifically im trying to emulate any needed keys that arent preasent on the ios keyboard
[21:17:56] <brad_a> what about function keys?
[21:25:00] <lynxlynxlynx> yes
[21:25:12] <lynxlynxlynx> f1-f12 are used for actionbar shortcuts
[21:25:33] <lynxlynxlynx> alt highlights ground piles (currently tab?)
[21:27:19] <brad_a> F keys would be useless then since bringing up the keyboard to use them is more work than tapping the interface :-P
[21:27:38] <brad_a> alt+tab is mapped to NUM_FING_INFO
[21:28:04] <brad_a> so i guess ctrl is the only special key i need to add?
[21:28:22] <brad_a> i guess i can put alt and tab in too
[21:28:43] <lynxlynxlynx> there's no tab on the keyboard?
[21:28:50] <brad_a> im not sure TBH
[21:28:57] <brad_a> no alt i know that
[21:29:09] <brad_a> what about hom pgup or any of those?
[21:32:09] <lynxlynxlynx> they're used, but i doubt they're of much use
[21:32:22] <lynxlynxlynx> pg are for resizing the message window
[21:32:36] <brad_a> that may be handy
[21:32:55] <brad_a> since touching those tiny nibs is a pain
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[22:05:35] <chiv> I actually wondered, I dont have any little gadgets, but how easy is it to hit the buttons on these things?
[22:05:56] <chiv> surely choosing dialog options is.. tricky
[22:06:04] <fuzzie> on the tiny gadgets, yes
[22:06:49] <fuzzie> but bear in mind that the larger tablet displays are ~10" diagonal
[22:07:39] <chiv> still, I can imagine accidentally talking myself into a fight :)
[22:07:54] <brad_a> well with the TTF font plugin text can be as big as you want
[22:08:02] <brad_a> so dialogue is not that painful
[22:08:03] <fuzzie> bigger text there is probably smart though. hence brad_a's work on ttf i assume.
[22:08:08] <fuzzie> heh :P
[22:08:14] <brad_a> yes that :-P
[22:08:26] <fuzzie> scummvm's iOS/android backends offer a touchpad-style mode where you move a mouse cursor
[22:08:34] <fuzzie> that would be incredibly annoying for gemrb though :P
[22:09:13] <fuzzie> but that kind of thing is what i meant by tablet input customisation
[22:09:28] <fuzzie> the smart thing to do is probably to highlight a line when you tap down, and only actually choose it after you tapped for more than 0.5s or so
[22:09:46] <fuzzie> or somesuch clever thing
[22:09:56] <fuzzie> that kind of customised input really becomes quickly natural
[22:14:51] <chiv> I think bigger buttons would be a nice idea for the really small screens
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[22:49:10] <taimon> just built and tested gemrb
[22:50:20] <taimon> nearly worked out-of-the-box, good job :)
[22:51:18] <taimon> however, my mouse is lagging on 1024x768 (but not on the lower resolutions)
[22:51:57] <taimon> gemrb is from git, sdl 1.2.14, openal 1.13
[22:52:35] <fuzzie> cpu bound?
[22:53:09] <fuzzie> our software rendering can be relatively slow, no dirty rectangling, usually not that bad though..
[22:54:00] <fuzzie> i keep meaning to just write an opengl one, but the list of 'incredibly stupid bugs which should be fixed first' grows larger for the more months i ignore it
[22:55:45] <taimon> the rest of the game is fine, only the mouse cursor lags
[22:55:57] <fuzzie> huh.
[22:56:20] <taimon> but my hardware is pretty old
[22:58:12] <fuzzie> well, mostly my gemrb work has been on pretty ancient hardware, that is a new one for me..
[22:58:32] <taimon> 2 Ghz P4
[22:58:50] <fuzzie> ok, maybe it's actually faster than that :)
[22:59:13] <fuzzie> (1.2ghz iBook G4, and a 1.6ghz Atom netbook which is slower than the G4)
[22:59:28] <fuzzie> i guess original IE runs fine at 1024x768 though..?
[22:59:44] <taimon> yeah sure :)
[23:00:24] <taimon> strange thing is: it also lags on the menu screen
[23:00:31] <taimon> more than ingame
[23:01:24] <fuzzie> i wonder if it'd be worth doing a bit of disasm work on the CVidCell bits
[23:01:35] <fuzzie> i think opengl seems much more productive angle though
[23:02:11] <taimon> you really think it"s the software renderer?
[23:02:16] <fuzzie> but i'm guessing it's some weird bug if it's mouse lag. don't know if anyone else has seen it. lynx would know best.
[23:02:54] <taimon> CVidCell is ugly btw
[23:04:47] <fuzzie> not reassuring ;p
[23:05:08] <fuzzie> all the blitting/rendering stuff looks like a hideously overcomplicated mess though
[23:05:20] <fuzzie> especially with seperated functions for 3D/16/24/32bpp
[23:06:45] <taimon> i kept looking for the OpenGL stuff to identify things
[23:06:53] <fuzzie> although i am still grumpy about having decoded all of CGameAnimationTypeMonster only to discover that the sodding factory function uses CGameAnimationTypeMonsterOld for most of the anims, so i am not cheerful at bioware's design strategy
[23:06:56] <taimon> it's manageable
[23:07:06] <taimon> hehe
[23:07:53] <taimon> they just glued the code together
[23:08:35] <fuzzie> but why oh why add all code which produces all kinds of fascinatingly incorrect values for the old animation types into the class which isn't used for any of them :)
[23:09:31] <taimon> well I guess it didn't work :)
[23:10:08] <taimon> so they switched back to the old code
[23:11:42] <fuzzie> the only complaints about this kind of lag in the logs are people discussing my flaky sdl audio code, but if it's resolution-dependant maybe it's some kind of corner case with our slow renderer. good to know to take a look.
[23:12:19] <taimon> hmm, maybe I should try another game
[23:16:11] <taimon> same on bg1
[23:25:59] <-- Maighstir has left IRC (Quit: .)
[23:26:12] <taimon> it depends on how much of the game screen is visible
[23:26:45] <taimon> if i let another window overlap part of it, the lag is gone
[23:35:18] <brad_a> sdl 1.2.14 isnt the latest is it?
[23:37:24] <brad_a> looking at the SDL commit log i see some 1.2 changes 2 weeks ago. maybe try building from source?
[23:42:46] <taimon> will try but not today
[23:43:08] <taimon> i rather suspect the xserver
[23:44:02] <taimon> cpu usage is only at 15 percent, btw
[23:44:08] <brad_a> how very odd
[23:44:41] <taimon> might also be related to the window manager (awesome)