#gemrb@irc.freenode.net logs for 4 Sep 2009 (GMT)

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[11:00:22] <fuzzie> afternoon all
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[11:12:06] <D_T_G> lynxlynxlynx: can i install widescreen mod 27 times in gemrb to have all 640x480+ standard resolutions: http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/e/e5/Vector_Video_Standards2.svg :D
[11:12:37] <lynxlynxlynx> :)
[11:12:47] <D_T_G> would it really work??
[11:13:24] <lynxlynxlynx> there are some drawing issues with the giant ones
[11:13:35] <lynxlynxlynx> i tried only 1200x900 and lower
[11:14:10] <Gekz> I have 1920x1080
[11:14:13] <Gekz> it didnt work fo rme
[11:14:42] <D_T_G> hmm 1200x900 seems not standard
[11:15:14] <lynxlynxlynx> who cares?
[11:16:27] <D_T_G> indeed, who cares about working resolutions that don't feet any monitor res :P
[11:17:50] <pupnik> 800x480 work?
[11:20:12] <Gekz> no.
[11:24:06] <fuzzie> would be good to try and fix that, but i think anything less than 800x600 is unsupported by the mod as-is?
[11:26:40] <D_T_G> with original exe e.g. 800x480 is supported by mod but the exe need to be in windowed mode
[11:27:29] <D_T_G> i mean 800x480 can be set with the mod but it only works in windowed mode, in fullscreen it crashes i guess
[11:28:45] <fuzzie> huh, you're sure?
[11:28:47] <lynxlynxlynx> why don't you just try it?
[11:28:49] <fuzzie> the mod just rejected y<600 for me
[11:29:08] <lynxlynxlynx> yeah, it also says to input more
[11:29:17] <lynxlynxlynx> atleast for bg2
[11:29:24] <fuzzie> but i see that there's a libsmall/ in there
[11:29:28] <D_T_G> oh, so i'm wrong
[11:30:05] <fuzzie> it's more complicated, i think
[11:30:06] <lynxlynxlynx> libsmall is for iwd, bg1 and the other smalliest
[11:30:14] <lynxlynxlynx> -t
[11:30:14] <fuzzie> you can do lower resolutions for iwd/bg1, and then it must be windowed?
[11:30:21] <fuzzie> but the other games you have to have higher resolutions
[11:31:16] <pupnik> do you think y < 600 is impossible without major changes?
[11:31:24] <D_T_G> gemrb could eventually overcome this exe restrictions :)
[11:31:38] <fuzzie> i think it's just a mod restriction in these cases anyway?
[11:32:13] <Gekz> fuzzie: hack the mod scripts adn find out
[11:32:22] <lynxlynxlynx> D_T_G: hack the mod scripts adn find out
[11:32:42] <Gekz> ADN
[11:32:45] <fuzzie> i sure am nowhere near the mod or the game data :/
[11:33:31] <lynxlynxlynx> lib/get_dim.tpa is where the bounds check is
[11:33:41] <D_T_G> ADN - a definit NOT :P
[11:33:50] <lynxlynxlynx> D_T_G: just take the y one out
[11:33:52] <D_T_G> not good enough
[11:35:01] <D_T_G> pupnik most wishes 800x480 here :rolleyes:
[11:35:03] <fuzzie> i guess it's starting with the 800x600 base gui?
[11:36:32] <D_T_G> i think if the res between 640x480 and 800x600 in bg2 was possible the_bigg would let it mod for sure
[11:36:41] <D_T_G> he's the expert behind it
[11:36:48] <fuzzie> well, i don't think the exe runs on any machines which do 800x4800
[11:36:59] <fuzzie> which is the only resolution which would be useful between those
[11:37:03] <lynxlynxlynx> bgconfig has an option for 640x480, so the ui stuff is there
[11:37:23] <fuzzie> i run bg2 at 640x480 :-) but i think the ui is a bit more 'squeezed
[11:37:29] <lynxlynxlynx> talk about widescreen
[11:37:37] <Gekz> the UI needs to be streamlined for lower rese
[11:37:37] <Gekz> s
[11:37:39] <D_T_G> in 800x480 it would probably crash if was allowed
[11:37:40] <Gekz> it really does
[11:37:44] <Gekz> you can barely see the play screen
[11:38:02] <lynxlynxlynx> hide the ui
[11:38:09] <Gekz> I like the UI
[11:38:24] <D_T_G> i must go, bye
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[11:39:30] <pupnik> ok ty
[11:40:11] <pupnik> i expect to get my pandora in october
[11:41:26] <fuzzie> oh, pandora is 800x480 too?
[11:41:28] <fuzzie> neat
[11:42:32] <pupnik> yes
[11:42:42] <pupnik> also nokia N900 phone
[11:42:42] <lynxlynxlynx> ERROR: Failure("EXTEND_MOS can't shrink")
[11:42:55] <lynxlynxlynx> that's the error you get for forcing 480
[11:43:01] <pupnik> ty!
[11:43:05] <pupnik> copied
[11:45:06] <pupnik> is there anything in the bioware data that assumes 4:3?
[11:46:24] <lynxlynxlynx> movies, i guess
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[12:09:37] <zefklop> hi all
[12:09:41] <D_T_G> hi
[12:10:06] <zefklop> movies assumes to have a place greater than 640x480
[12:10:19] <zefklop> so 800x480 should be fine for them
[12:10:46] <D_T_G> pupnik: could you research the widescreen forum if <640x480;800x600> resolutions in bg2 were ever talked about?
[12:11:27] <pupnik> will do
[12:13:53] <D_T_G> 14 subpages of threads, scarry :o
[12:15:12] <fuzzie> just google :)
[12:15:23] <fuzzie> you find a post from bigg saying that the mod uses the 800x600 base, and that's why it doesn't work.
[12:16:48] <D_T_G> http://forums.gibberlings3.net/index.php?showtopic=17625
[12:17:25] <D_T_G> oh, you mean that: http://forums.gibberlings3.net/index.php?showtopic=13732
[12:18:01] <fuzzie> yes :)
[12:36:35] <D_T_G> the frame art are all seperate graphics?
[12:36:46] <D_T_G> i mean 4 seperate parts?
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[12:38:17] <lynxlynxlynx> yes
[12:40:12] <Gekz_> moo
[12:41:40] <pupnik> 14:41 <+bonsaikitten> do not ever disturb a programmer when he doesn't respond directly
[12:47:36] <D_T_G> pupnik are you brave enough to ask the_bigg if he's still thinking of "one of thes days"? :>
[12:52:22] <pupnik> dunno
[12:53:07] <pupnik> i do know one thing - i will never understand gemrb
[12:53:50] <D_T_G> 1oh
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[13:03:50] <fuzzie> gemrb is not so bad once you understand how the games work..
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[16:55:30] <CIA-22> gemrb: 03lynxlupodian * r7087 10/gemrb/trunk/gemrb/ (12 files in 7 dirs):
[16:55:30] <CIA-22> gemrb: added "Level Up" feedback, reordered some xp gaining so this message is
[16:55:30] <CIA-22> gemrb: last and made RunFunction accept an optional integer argument
[16:59:04] <CIA-22> gemrb: 03lynxlupodian * r7088 10/gemrb/trunk/gemrb/GUIScripts/bg2/GUICommonWindows.py: removed debugging leftover
[17:08:48] <CIA-22> gemrb: 03lynxlupodian * r7089 10/gemrb/trunk/gemrb/plugins/Core/Actor.cpp:
[17:08:48] <CIA-22> gemrb: display the combat feedback sooner, so the damage output can't come after
[17:08:48] <CIA-22> gemrb: the actor's death message
[17:10:49] <fuzzie> we simply don't order the effects/messages/etc properly, so i wouldn't worry too much about ordering the messages in general
[17:11:04] <fuzzie> although reordering them in the code does no harm either :)
[17:11:42] <lynxlynxlynx> you mean in the originals the messages have some sorting attribute?
[17:12:03] <fuzzie> no, but they're handled with internal queues and an effect opcode
[17:12:34] <fuzzie> the actual death 'handling' happens after their attack code is long-finished, for example
[17:13:17] <fuzzie> and i just say, we have problems with message ordering elsewhere, but i think it's all stuff like that - we just don't order the execution of code properly, nor queue the messages, and it's not worth trying to hack around it by reordering the calls for now, i imagine
[17:13:35] <fuzzie> their damage code is long-finished, i meant.
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[18:33:55] <pupnik> FM music - great bass http://users.atw.hu/readalert/StreetsofRage2-SORSuperMix.flac
[18:33:58] <pupnik> also http://users.atw.hu/readalert/StreetsofRage2-AlienPower.flac
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[19:03:31] <Avenger> hi
[19:04:03] <lynxlynxlynx> oj
[19:05:11] <Avenger> the death message delay should be achieved by applying the death effect instead of calling die, i guess?
[19:06:18] <Avenger> at least, that's what the original engine does. It doesn't even apply the effects directly, but sends a message about it. Probably we can avoid that, though
[19:07:38] <lynxlynxlynx> the only thing that bothers me about feedback are the broken verbal constants
[19:08:37] <Avenger> what's broken about them? wrong text? too frequent? missing text?
[19:18:51] <lynxlynxlynx> missing
[19:19:02] <lynxlynxlynx> i think you already said we don't handle the monster ones
[19:19:21] <lynxlynxlynx> just the hundred that are in CRE
[19:19:44] <lynxlynxlynx> monsters have them in their animation 2das or something like that
[19:19:52] <Avenger> we handle some of those
[19:19:59] <Avenger> the attack one is handled
[19:20:12] <lynxlynxlynx> this is why you practically never see "Death" or "Critical Hit" displayed
[19:20:34] <Avenger> ?
[19:20:41] <Avenger> that is not verbalconstant
[19:20:42] <lynxlynxlynx> we do call them, but eg. goblins just don't have the strings set
[19:20:49] <lynxlynxlynx> VB_DEATH?
[19:21:03] <Avenger> that is, but the 'Death' or 'Critical Hit' text isn't
[19:21:23] <Avenger> that is a separate message, i'm almost 100% sure
[19:21:27] <lynxlynxlynx> *VB_DIE
[19:21:42] <lynxlynxlynx> DisplayStringCore(this, VB_CRITHIT, DS_CONSOLE|DS_CONST ); <-- so these are there just for the sound?
[19:21:54] <Avenger> that is when you MANAGE a critical hit :)
[19:22:03] <Avenger> not when you are critically hit
[19:22:07] <lynxlynxlynx> yes
[19:22:21] <lynxlynxlynx> but you are not the only one that can critically hit ;)
[19:22:43] <Avenger> does that verbal constant have any text?
[19:22:46] <lynxlynxlynx> VB_DAMAGE is even more general
[19:23:01] <Avenger> or is it just a wav attached to it
[19:23:08] <lynxlynxlynx> VB_DAMAGE does (Damage Taken (bg1 format)), VB_DIE no
[19:23:36] <lynxlynxlynx> so we get empty output a lot - just the "name - "
[19:24:06] <Avenger> i thought the critical hit text is a separate message
[19:24:26] <lynxlynxlynx> we have one separate for debugging
[19:27:28] <Avenger> critical hit is a separate message, not verbal constant
[19:28:37] <lynxlynxlynx> maybe i got confused for that one - we do display the helmet protection message
[19:28:52] <lynxlynxlynx> i see the strref doesn't match anywhere
[19:30:09] <lynxlynxlynx> i'll add it, but DAMAGE is still a problem
[19:30:17] <Avenger> http://img197.imageshack.us/img197/346/crithit.png
[19:30:21] <lynxlynxlynx> it is displayed, even though we don't want it
[19:30:46] <Avenger> that is a good reference for message order
[19:31:14] <lynxlynxlynx> that's trivial though
[19:31:47] <Avenger> well, ok, so critical hit needs an strref, and displayed before the verbal constant
[19:32:12] <lynxlynxlynx> yes, no big deal
[19:32:38] <Avenger> so, about damage, bg1 and bg2 differ?
[19:33:13] <lynxlynxlynx> every second game has a different format, that's why we have DisplayCombatOutput
[19:33:22] <Avenger> i don't see damage taken being displayed by the verbal constant
[19:33:45] <Avenger> i see [ALORA 38] as text (which is no text)
[19:34:06] <Avenger> so damage taken is a separate text, not VB_*
[19:35:20] <lynxlynxlynx> 14027, the strref doesn't match anywhere in the code, except nonbg2 overrides, so it has to be from the data
[19:35:41] <lynxlynxlynx> i'm pretty sure i followed it to the vb code sometime
[19:36:17] <Avenger> i think damage taken is displayed for self inflicted damage
[19:36:55] <Avenger> it is displayed by efftext.2da
[19:37:03] <lynxlynxlynx> maybe it should be, but now you get it every hit, just try some combat
[19:37:42] <fuzzie> Avenger: how are effects applied again, do they always go via queue?
[19:37:47] <Avenger> hmm, do we use damage effect now?
[19:37:50] <Avenger> for combat?
[19:38:03] <Avenger> well first apply is not via queue
[19:38:16] <fuzzie> i mean, should it be via queue?
[19:38:25] <Avenger> it should be via message, i guess :)
[19:38:35] <Avenger> it should be added to the queue if it isn't resisted
[19:38:41] <fuzzie> i wonder how to implement messages
[19:38:42] <lynxlynxlynx> we use Actor::Damage
[19:38:43] <Avenger> or not immediate
[19:39:05] <lynxlynxlynx> oh, the effect ends there too
[19:39:12] <Avenger> it is a different queue, fuzzie
[19:39:34] <Avenger> it is just: sender object, receiver object, message type, <arbitrary data based on message type>
[19:39:36] <fuzzie> yes, messages are a global queue, but since we need messages for more than just effects, it's got to be clever
[19:40:08] <fuzzie> we don't need their whole system unless we need multiplayer, i know, but i'm not sure how much is enough .. it would be nice if we could do without the 'arbitary data' bit?
[19:40:31] <Avenger> that would be tough, as we want it for applying an effect
[19:40:49] <Avenger> you don't have to be afraid from the arbitrary data :)
[19:41:04] <fuzzie> it seems like it might quickly become a mess :(
[19:41:29] <Avenger> not really, just free it when you remove the message
[19:41:51] <fuzzie> oh, 'arbitary data' can just be a pointer?
[19:42:01] <Avenger> sure
[19:42:04] <fuzzie> aha
[19:42:20] <Avenger> a pointer, which you malloc/free, and interpret based on the message type
[19:42:32] <Avenger> it is not too difficult
[19:42:34] <fuzzie> ok :)
[19:43:00] <fuzzie> just a vector would do, i guess, since we'd likely free the whole thing at the end
[19:43:18] <Avenger> well, the IE version seems to be use inherited classes, but we can live without that
[19:44:03] <fuzzie> well, if we don't use so many messages, it's not so bad
[19:44:48] <fuzzie> where do they put it, equivalent to Game?
[19:45:41] <Edheldil> would not it be better to stay close to the original implementation to allow for MP?
[19:45:47] <Edheldil> hi all, btw
[19:46:15] <Avenger> no, the messages are higher, somewhere in 'Interface'
[19:46:17] <fuzzie> it's not so hard to rework it later, i think
[19:46:45] <Avenger> they call it CBaldurChitin iirc
[19:46:46] <fuzzie> i just don't want to be distracted reworking everything to do messages before we even made SoA work well :)
[19:49:49] <Avenger> i think we should use messages when: the original does it too AND we need to use it for some own reason.
[19:50:11] <Avenger> if we need it, but the original doesn't, then we should find it out how they do it
[19:50:19] <CIA-22> gemrb: 03lynxlupodian * r7090 10/gemrb/trunk/gemrb/ (8 files in 8 dirs): added critical hit/miss feedback
[19:50:29] <Avenger> if they do it, but we don't need it, it is most likely needed for multiplayer only
[19:50:34] <Avenger> so, it can wait
[19:50:49] <fuzzie> well, you can see this very easily in the original: where it sends a message and does nothing else
[19:51:04] <Avenger> yes, messages are pretty obvious
[19:51:06] <fuzzie> that is just effects (including things like fx_death for Die) and ClearActions so far?
[19:51:16] <Avenger> a screenful of code to build a message :)
[19:51:17] <fuzzie> well, that is all that annoys me in gemrb so far anyway :)
[19:51:18] <lynxlynxlynx> so if i understood correctly, death needs to be announced manually too and the extraneus damage one is due to us using an effect for dealing the damage?
[19:51:49] <Avenger> yes lynx, maybe efftext.2da is not so simple
[19:52:25] <Avenger> my implementation is very primitive, i dont' really know how the original uses efftext.2da
[19:52:49] <Avenger> i simply display <Name> - efftext when name is affected by an effect
[19:52:59] <Avenger> but it is obviously not true for damage effects
[19:53:28] <Edheldil> possibly it also leads to a more manageable code, since it serializes the communication a bit? But I admit I haven't seen the code and games are not known for good design
[19:53:45] <Avenger> yes Ed, it is
[19:54:04] <Avenger> but we really don't need it for all cases
[19:54:23] <Avenger> in many case they do an attribute modification then send the same as message
[19:54:32] <Avenger> obviously it is to synchronise multiplayer
[19:54:50] <Edheldil> ok
[19:55:07] <fuzzie> but it's important for some things, because we do them instantly right now and it doesn't work :)
[19:55:18] <Avenger> in most cases (i think all cases) when they apply an effect, they send an apply effect message
[19:55:21] <fuzzie> Kill(Myself) is particularly annoying
[19:55:39] <fuzzie> we just do Die() right now, but even if we properly apply fx_death, it's applied instantly
[19:55:41] <Avenger> and displaying strings is 50% via display string message
[19:55:53] <Avenger> Kill sends an apply death effect
[19:56:06] <Avenger> message
[19:56:47] <Avenger> we should simply change the core->ApplyEffect to put the effect in the message queue as an apply effect message
[19:56:59] <Edheldil> hmm, so death one is not duplicated by a direct call
[19:57:24] <fuzzie> also, there are quite a few scripts which do ClearActions(Myself) at the start
[19:57:29] <Avenger> no, effects are never called directly, as far as i seen it
[19:57:40] <fuzzie> i don't understand why, yet, but it doesn't clear the action queue at that point :)
[19:58:07] <Avenger> ahh, scripting
[19:58:26] <Avenger> how many scripts use StateOverride* ?
[19:58:26] <fuzzie> gemrb's ClearActions doesn't even examine the object it is passed, i guess because the object is only there in bg2
[19:58:29] <fuzzie> but i broke it anyway
[19:58:44] <Avenger> i just implemented it , but it is untested
[19:59:01] <Avenger> as far as i know it lets held people's scripts to run
[19:59:15] <Avenger> mostly for cutscene stuff i think
[19:59:23] <fuzzie> MakeUnselectable does that too
[19:59:28] <Edheldil> having classes for Messages makes sense, but I see that ApplyEffect one is the most important
[19:59:37] <Avenger> makeunselectable does what?
[19:59:43] <fuzzie> right now we do the opposite for MakeUnselectable, which is, well, not good :)
[20:00:01] <Avenger> i thought makeunselectable just disables gui interaction
[20:00:02] <fuzzie> oh, no, i misread
[20:00:06] <fuzzie> makeunselectable disables scripts
[20:00:14] <Avenger> eep, where?
[20:00:21] <fuzzie> i mean, it should do that
[20:00:27] <fuzzie> at least for .. bg2, i think?
[20:00:54] <fuzzie> StateOverrideFlag is used twice in ar1505.baf
[20:01:04] <Avenger> i don't think so, but i'm open for discussion :)
[20:01:18] <fuzzie> well, i tested it :)
[20:01:31] <fuzzie> right now gemrb's MakeUnselectable only reduces the timer when a script runs, which breaks SoA :/
[20:01:36] <Avenger> in iwd2, it makes you run away from a place, disabling player control
[20:02:02] <fuzzie> but if you implemented that for iwd2, perhaps they changed it
[20:02:02] <Edheldil> the same like fear?
[20:02:13] <Avenger> yes ed, similar
[20:02:20] <Avenger> just purple feet circle, not yellow
[20:02:51] <fuzzie> there are a bunch of StateOverrideFlag uses in ele*.dlg too
[20:02:53] <fuzzie> that is it
[20:03:30] <fuzzie> gemrb gets the purple feet thing right, but that's all it does, and then you're stuck unselectable forever until you run an ai script
[20:03:38] <Avenger> ar1505 is in the asylum i think
[20:03:59] <Avenger> fuzzie, that's because the unselectable timer is not decreased
[20:04:13] <fuzzie> but you think that we need the script check for iwd2?
[20:04:34] <Avenger> hmm, wait, we do decrease it
[20:05:11] <fuzzie> this 'alive' thing was added by you especially for this unselectable thing
[20:05:52] <Avenger> heh
[20:06:02] <Avenger> i'm pretty sure i needed it for something
[20:06:03] <Avenger> :)
[20:06:08] <Avenger> probably not now, though
[20:06:20] <Avenger> and i'm pretty sure i tested this with that iwd2 door
[20:06:28] <Avenger> but in those times, movement and wait was different
[20:06:49] <Avenger> so, this alive thing is not surely needed
[20:08:39] <lynxlynxlynx> check with svn annotate
[20:08:46] <CIA-22> gemrb: 03lynxlupodian * r7091 10/gemrb/trunk/gemrb/ (9 files in 9 dirs): implemented Dope's wish - death feedback
[20:09:04] <fuzzie> svn history gets pretty useless when the code is 4 years old and everything else changed in the meantime :/
[20:09:39] <lynxlynxlynx> at least you know if it really changed 4 years ago
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[20:36:48] <CIA-22> gemrb: 03avenger_teambg * r7092 10/gemrb/trunk/gemrb/plugins/Core/ (5 files): GiveOrder/ReceivedOrder
[20:39:53] <CIA-22> gemrb: 03avenger_teambg * r7093 10/gemrb/trunk/gemrb/plugins/Core/GameScript.cpp: missing reference to ReceivedOrder
[21:17:17] <lynxlynxlynx> an effect causes the "damage taken" to appear, in this case opcode 12 - fx_maximum_hp_modifier
[21:17:44] <fuzzie> that's wrong?
[21:17:45] <lynxlynxlynx> nothing that can be fixed nicely
[21:17:56] <lynxlynxlynx> it is general code, so it is fine
[21:18:26] <lynxlynxlynx> maybe they blacklisted the damage strref? They didn't give everyone immunity to this string
[21:20:09] <lynxlynxlynx> maybe efftext.2da is used for this
[21:20:32] <lynxlynxlynx> all the ones on iesdp have a damage entry in it
[21:21:14] <lynxlynxlynx> i'll go check if plain iwd doesn't - if the guess is true, it shouldn't
[21:23:30] <lynxlynxlynx> wrong
[21:24:01] <lynxlynxlynx> two more entries than totl, but it has damage
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[23:05:36] <pupnik> :)
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