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[08:15:53] <chiv> just being nosy, looking at the bg1/2 and iwd1/2 messagewindow scripts they are virtually identical, does that make them a canditate for merging?
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[12:39:09] <lynxlynxlynx> chiv: sure
[12:39:48] <lynxlynxlynx> rocket_hamster: will you have time on saturday? we should finish the game off some time
[12:39:55] <rocket_hamster> yes
[12:40:05] <lynxlynxlynx> cool
[12:40:05] <rocket_hamster> lemme check my calendar
[12:40:41] <rocket_hamster> 1300 to ??
[12:40:51] <rocket_hamster> 1700?
[12:40:54] <rocket_hamster> what do you think?
[12:42:34] <chiv> I went and merged them anyway, seems to be alright so far, only I've broken what I was working on....
[12:48:25] <lynxlynxlynx> i have some lifting to do, but not sure at what time yet
[12:48:51] <rocket_hamster> weight lifting or code lifting?
[12:48:52] <lynxlynxlynx> chiv: you merged them in pairs or all four?
[12:48:53] <rocket_hamster> :D
[12:49:22] <chiv> Only bg1/2/iwd1 so far
[12:49:28] <chiv> since they are so similar
[12:51:46] <lynxlynxlynx> they don't look that similar to me
[12:52:15] <lynxlynxlynx> rocket_hamster: plastic lifting, so more in the weight department
[12:52:34] <chiv> there are only very minor differences imo
[12:53:09] <chiv> i have been looking at it with meld which makes it really easy to pick them out
[12:54:40] <rocket_hamster> lynx: have fun, i'll be on irc these days, so ping me when you're ready
[12:54:56] <lynxlynxlynx> "fun"
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[13:10:03] <chiv> arg, always the stupidest mistakes that are most painful, taken me an hour to realise I had changed an x coord instead of a y
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[13:24:05] <ojii> Hi I'm trying to update vmc using gem 1.8.10, but it gives me an error: http://ci.ojii.ch/
[13:24:11] <ojii> sorry paste fail, error is: Unable to resolve dependencies: cfoundry requires multi_json (~> 1.4.0)
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[14:23:23] <edheldil> eh? Seemed a bit lost
[14:38:04] <rocket_hamster> maybe someone from paralel dimension?
[15:07:37] <lynxlynxlynx_> maybe some ruby stuff, since those packages are called gems
[15:09:06] <wjp> and I suppose 'rb' is the common abbreviation/extension for ruby too
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[15:37:39] <chiv> is there anywhere that has a description of the contents of the UI files at all?
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[15:43:28] <lynxlynxlynx_> chiv: iesdp
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[16:09:27] <edheldil> chiv: they are actually quite easy. Too much, I think
[16:09:49] <edheldil> You can also use iesh to parse and process them as much as you like
[16:10:48] <chiv> i was just trying to find some info on what window id's I can safely use, but i found it with dltcep
[16:11:33] <chiv> although conceptionally, they make me itch
[16:12:31] <fuzzie> the ui files?
[16:13:18] <lynxlynxlynx_> i think we can create most of the controls from scratch at runtime, but you probably still need a windowpack
[16:13:25] <chiv> yes...
[16:13:54] <chiv> python is much nicer to use
[16:14:01] <chiv> there I said it
[16:15:10] <fuzzie> not exactly a controversial statement I think
[16:16:49] <chiv> well, I had a hard time getting used to it, I'm not the sharpest tool in the box
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[16:31:36] <brada> i think we all love python
[16:31:59] <brada> i especially like that it is so easy to bridge with objective c :p
[16:32:07] <brada> but i actually like it as a language too
[16:33:54] <WingedHussar> Ruffie like python too, but he eat near everything, so it mean nothing, really
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[16:47:05] <edheldil> chiv: better simile I have read: Not a sharpest crayon in the pencilbox :)
[16:47:34] <chiv> simpler than the average bear
[16:48:22] <edheldil> Hi, Avenger
[16:48:33] <Avenger> hi Ed
[16:49:16] <chiv> ok now my action bar sizes dynamicaly to however much it needs to :)
[16:49:27] <brada> there you go
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[17:01:20] <lynxlynxlynx_> Avenger: do you really think we would be competition to bgee on linux?
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[17:01:48] <lynxlynxlynx_> you need a game either way and you need specifically bgee if you want the new content
[17:02:13] <Avenger> well, the problem is, they will never consider moving to linux then
[17:02:51] <lynxlynxlynx_> why not? it's still a platform they can monetize on
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[17:03:26] <Avenger> well, anyway, i will first talk to them before doing any move
[17:04:51] <brada> i cant understand what they have to loose by doing a linux version
[17:05:03] <brada> its not much extra work
[17:05:20] <Avenger> proprietary world -> full of contractual obligations
[17:05:45] <lynxlynxlynx_> you said they didn't change the chu format
[17:06:20] <lynxlynxlynx_> i thought this would be a major issue and that people would need both vanilla, as a gui donor and bgee for the content
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[17:06:39] <lynxlynxlynx_> but if they really just do scaling, i guess bgee would be enough
[17:06:59] <Avenger> they changed tilesets, completely
[17:07:39] <brada> isnt that just reading a new format and making the same type of tile?
[17:10:32] <chiv> i am here because bgee did not scratch the itch
[17:12:12] <lynxlynxlynx_> we'll see how it goes, they can focus on other stuff now with bg2ee
[17:15:11] <chiv> i mean, bgee is the best version of vanilla baldurs gate, but wheres the fun in that?
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[17:15:58] <Avenger> the fun is that someone with the ability to create new content is picking up the thread
[17:16:13] <Avenger> bgee is just the beginning of the story
[17:16:24] <Avenger> at least, i want to believe that, and help that
[17:17:48] <Avenger> they will definitely do bg2ee
[17:17:53] <Avenger> and then we'll see
[17:19:21] <chiv> ah yes, new adventures would be welcome
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[17:23:29] <chiv> still, gemRB is democratisation :)
[17:23:43] <xrogaan> Avenger: if they don't use a newer engine for bg3, i won't buy it
[17:23:57] <Avenger> they will
[17:24:00] <xrogaan> like, real fake 3D.
[17:24:40] <xrogaan> also, I won't buy it if it doesn't use 3.5nd edition
[17:25:03] <xrogaan> well, just not the 2nd nor the 4th
[17:25:44] * xrogaan is being picky
[17:26:29] <chiv> i dont thing selling it as baldurs gate 3 is a good start
[17:26:34] <xrogaan> and since you've got a foot in, tell them that they should bring the community in like amplitude studio with endless space :)
[17:26:53] <chiv> if its something new, then it has to be new
[17:27:12] <xrogaan> it's _always_ a good idea for that kind of niche games
[17:27:55] <chiv> yeah but if it is just a hanger on, then that is bad
[17:28:12] <chiv> look at torment, what did it have in common with the other games?
[17:28:20] <chiv> and it is awesome
[17:28:36] <chiv> fresh is best
[17:29:17] <xrogaan> also, I don't really get how you could put a baldur's gate '3'. You start as a god ?
[17:29:28] <chiv> i am a die hard baldurs gate player, but just using the name of the game is not enough to sell me something
[17:29:47] <xrogaan> mmh
[17:31:23] <chiv> the games all offered something unique: a ludicrous huge new world to explore, that was what dragged me in
[17:31:45] <chiv> backtracking is not the same as exploring
[17:32:24] <chiv> I hope that if they are planning a new game, they will take that sentiment on board :)
[17:33:41] <chiv> oh and ponies. it has to have ponies.
[17:33:54] <xrogaan> chiv: actually, i'm more looking forward project eternity than BG3 :)
[17:34:03] <xrogaan> looking toward
[17:34:21] <chiv> link please ?
[17:34:42] <xrogaan> http://2.bp.blogspot.com/-dJeiILzNa6w/T2ZQ8ORfEHI/AAAAAAAABU0/yfntC_RzN2s/s400/PoniesPoniesEverywhere.png
[17:34:57] <xrogaan> http://eternity.obsidian.net/
[17:35:27] <chiv> doh, forgot about that one
[17:35:39] <xrogaan> first AAA title fully funded by the community
[17:35:57] <chiv> yes
[17:36:17] <xrogaan> It's interesting to see what obsidian will bake :)
[17:36:35] <edheldil> you can play in Baldur's Gate world as a different character
[17:36:37] <Avenger> they promise so much... it will be difficult to deliver
[17:37:05] <Avenger> reading some of the notes at the bgee forum... i wonder what obsidian will get
[17:37:14] <xrogaan> Avenger: yeah, look at the engine they use ... Unity3D D:
[17:37:45] <Avenger> i don't know what is it, but 3d == bad for me
[17:37:49] <chiv> @edheldil : thats really what would turn me off though, the fact that everything was new in the game was a fundamental aspect
[17:37:59] <xrogaan> All the Unity3D games I've seen are quite "limited". Good, but limited.
[17:38:12] <chiv> like myst
[17:38:20] <Avenger> myst? huh
[17:38:23] <xrogaan> Avenger: it's a simple and powerfull graphical engine
[17:38:27] <Avenger> that was barely a point and click game
[17:38:52] <chiv> yeah, but it was atmosperic
[17:38:54] <xrogaan> edheldil: "as a different character" what ?
[17:39:07] <Avenger> PST has the feeling too :D
[17:39:21] <Avenger> and it is just a "crappy" IE game
[17:39:41] <chiv> exactly, using myst as a basic example
[17:39:50] <edheldil> chiv: well but pst was made by a different team - and focused on being subversive to the traditional cliches
[17:40:31] <chiv> this is a whole new team as well though isnt it?
[17:40:54] <edheldil> bgee or Obsidian?
[17:40:58] <chiv> bgee
[17:41:02] <xrogaan> Avenger: trine is in 3D but on a 2D plane
[17:41:43] <Avenger> bgee's team is not new, half of them was surely in bioware, i don't know the rest
[17:42:07] <chiv> ok let me put it another way, robocop: awesome robocop 2: awesome robocop 3: WHY DADDY WHY!?!?!
[17:43:26] <edheldil> on the other hand ... Evil Dead 1: good ...; Evil Dead 2: well, ok... ; Army of Darkness: ooooooh :)
[17:43:28] <chiv> neverending story: awesome, neverending story 2: awesome, neverending story 3: leave me alone, im not coming out of my room until you say you're sorry
[17:43:39] <kida_laptop> is this why valve doesn't try "3" ?
[17:43:44] <kida_laptop> :)
[17:43:48] <chiv> hah
[17:44:20] <brada> any of you in the steam for linux beta?
[17:44:27] <xrogaan> kida_laptop: no
[17:44:30] <chiv> nah but I am curious
[17:44:40] <xrogaan> kida_laptop: it's because there is no timeline inside valve
[17:44:54] <brada> or quality control
[17:44:59] <xrogaan> brada: why would I ?
[17:45:10] <brada> why would you what?
[17:45:19] <edheldil> brada: no, but I am looking to it with a careful optimism
[17:45:26] <edheldil> guarded
[17:46:54] <xrogaan> do one of you know this guy ? http://i.imgur.com/QcWlT.gif
[17:47:19] <xrogaan> I mean, on the internet.
[17:47:38] <chiv> it would take a company like valve to kick the hardware companies in the ass to better support linux
[17:47:39] <tomprince> brada: It is essesntially an open beta, I think: http://www.omgubuntu.co.uk/2012/11/reddit-users-bypass-valve-linux-beta-invitations
[17:49:14] <chiv> i rememer not long after they said they were doing it, they said something like a 200% fps increase on some systems
[17:49:24] <xrogaan> chiv: I wouldn't get my hopes so high
[17:50:04] <chiv> its not hope, i have no stake at all in it :)
[17:50:06] <xrogaan> yeah, on a specific hardware. That was optimized :)
[17:50:09] <brada> tomprince: last i checked its not an open beta
[17:50:20] <brada> you could apply and get in but i think its full
[17:50:30] <brada> oh i see what you mean
[17:50:39] <brada> not really open but people get in anyway
[17:50:42] <brada> ;)
[17:50:53] <edheldil> well, the point was that you could bypass the registration to try for yourself
[17:50:58] <brada> yeah
[17:51:03] <edheldil> sneak peek :)
[17:51:07] <tomprince> I've heard somebody suggest that that was perhaps delibrate, so they could get more testers, but not have to support them.
[17:51:26] <brada> valve hates supporting customers
[17:51:36] <edheldil> who does not? :)
[17:51:47] <brada> well they blatently ignore customers
[17:53:59] <brada> so linux is a good move for them since its a community that is used to supporting itself :p
[17:54:11] <brada> and are typically smart enough to figure things out on their own
[17:54:21] <brada> but valve will still ignore your bug reports :p
[17:54:29] <xrogaan> chiv: see, skyrim runs fine on the xbox... With a Radeon 5000. That can't be, but the devs did optimize the game engine. Same thing with valve and their source engine
[17:56:50] <chiv> thats desktop pc vs console though, its always easier to make something work on a console
[17:57:42] <brada> well the rumor is that valve wants to build their own hardware with linux as a base
[17:58:07] <kida_laptop> but the problem is, modern linux desktop is no more lightweight
[17:58:18] <xrogaan> chiv: it's not, actually
[17:58:38] <xrogaan> chiv: you always dev first on a PC, then put it on console
[17:58:45] <chiv> sure it is, just cut features out until it works :)
[17:58:53] <xrogaan> the "easier part" is the optimisation for only one type of hardware
[17:59:11] <chiv> i meant that
[17:59:24] <xrogaan> so, there are bugs but they have to get around them. On the PC, they don't care.
[17:59:33] <xrogaan> too much work
[18:01:09] <xrogaan> that and the naughty drivers that "fixes" games. What they really means: they fixed their own messes.
[18:01:51] <xrogaan> when you see "10% faster" and crap like that, it's PR bullshit to say "we did a poor job at your drivers, but there is something better."
[18:02:08] <xrogaan> s/at your/with our/
[18:02:19] <xrogaan> sorry, didn't slept much :x
[18:08:08] <xrogaan> http://www.reddit.com/r/technology/comments/14dqx0/apple_ceo_tim_cook_announces_plans_to_manufacture/
[18:09:40] <brada> yeah saw that this morning
[18:12:26] <xrogaan> I don't know if it's a good idea.
[18:12:41] <brada> why not?
[18:17:57] <xrogaan> people kill themself in china to meet the quotas
[18:18:06] <xrogaan> err
[18:18:14] <xrogaan> I mean, the job is too stresfull
[18:18:30] <xrogaan> stressful
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[21:46:23] <lynxlynxlynx_> if nothing else, bgee also increased the interest in gemrb again
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[22:41:09] <brada> lynx: how do you measure that?
[22:41:31] <lynxlynxlynx> by number of lurkers on this channel for example
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[23:05:20] <Coriander> We're not exactly lurking
[23:05:41] <Coriander> unless you mean those other people
[23:05:46] <Coriander> they're totally lurking
[23:08:37] <brada> Avenger: i understand the ipad version of BG:EE is delayed because of memory ussage issues, but why is the mac one delayed? do you know?
[23:08:52] <Avenger> no
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[23:09:15] <Avenger> do you need apple's approval even on a mac?
[23:09:38] <brada> for it to be distributed by apple. and that is the way they are choosing to distribute it
[23:09:50] <Avenger> then that's the answer
[23:10:33] <Avenger> another idea would be to wait till the patches cull most of the big bad bugs
[23:10:50] <Avenger> we basically have daily patches now :)
[23:10:59] <Avenger> pc people like it, apple people likely won't
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[23:12:17] <Avenger> you wanna get the mac version?
[23:12:33] <brada> well i dont have windows :p
[23:12:38] <brada> and there is no linux version
[23:13:32] <brada> i have no tablet either but that version is also delayed for both android and ios
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