#gemrb@irc.freenode.net logs for 8 Dec 2010 (GMT)

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[01:20:25] <xrogaan> so, where can I vote for a full support of the wild magic ?
[01:41:05] <tomprince> With code? :)
[01:44:05] <tomprince> Or, perhaps ask when people are awake. Most devs are in europe.
[01:45:12] <tomprince> An intermediate idea ... figure out what is involved (at a high level) in implementing wild magic.
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[04:18:36] <xrogaan> tomprince: I have no idea. I'm not a C/C++ guru.
[04:18:54] <xrogaan> anyway, I hit a problem while trying to package the latest version
[04:21:43] <xrogaan> I'll wait here until somebody feels in the mood
[04:22:42] <tomprince> You might as well ask, since the channel is logged, and people read it.
[04:23:00] <tomprince> And you might not be around when people are "in the mood".
[04:23:53] <tomprince> re: Wild magic, you don't need to know C++ to figure out what bits of functionallity are missing.
[04:28:18] <xrogaan> well, i'm trying to get something valuable to show. Wild Magic can wait
[04:29:11] <tomprince> So ... what is your issue ...
[04:29:20] <xrogaan> I do not know
[04:29:40] <tomprince> ...
[04:29:42] <xrogaan> this is the file generated by rpmbuild : http://en.pastebin.ca/2013489
[04:30:00] <xrogaan> this is my spec file : http://en.pastebin.ca/2013490
[04:30:24] <xrogaan> this is the error : http://dpaste.com/284174/
[04:32:06] <xrogaan> probably an issue with the cmake variables
[04:33:50] <tomprince> Try dropping the -Wl,--no-undefined
[04:34:27] <xrogaan> LDFLAGS ?
[04:34:31] <tomprince> yes.
[04:36:11] <xrogaan> Well, I don't know how to do that with rpmbuild
[04:39:00] <tomprince> Just edit the scipt? Also, if you run with make with VERBOSE=1, it might help diagnosing it.
[04:39:09] <tomprince> (i don't use rpm)
[04:39:22] <xrogaan> well, that script is generated by rpmbuild
[04:39:36] <xrogaan> I can't edit it, i must find a way to do it with the .spec file :p
[04:40:17] <tomprince> Can't you edit it and run it, at least to test?
[04:43:34] <xrogaan> let me see how to edit ldflags
[04:45:24] <xrogaan> found
[04:45:41] <xrogaan> seems to work
[04:46:57] <xrogaan> eh eh
[04:48:13] <tomprince> I'd like to see the make VERBOSE=1 output, since I don't think that error should trigger.
[04:51:20] <xrogaan> okay, wait for it
[04:52:19] <xrogaan> the problem is the -j4
[04:52:49] <xrogaan> tomprince: is that enough : http://dpaste.com/284186/ ?
[04:57:13] <xrogaan> meh, THAT is weird :
[04:57:14] <xrogaan> + make -j4 DESTDIR=/home/xrogaan/rpm/BUILDROOT/gemrb-0.6.3-1mdv2010.1.x86_64 install
[04:57:17] <xrogaan> make: *** No rule to make target `install'. Stop.
[04:59:50] <xrogaan> ah no
[05:07:56] <tomprince> Does removing -W,--no-undefined work?
[05:09:48] <tomprince> Or use of cmake seems to be somewhat broken, and I am not sure what the proper fix is.
[05:10:41] <tomprince> For devs that are awake before me, the issue is that apparently, cmake is honoring target_link_libraries for gemrb_core, when set in gemrb, rather than gemrb/core
[05:12:20] <xrogaan> yeah, it works
[05:12:24] <tomprince> The fix is probably to add TARGET_LINK_LIBRARIES(gemrb_core ${CMAKE_DL_LIBS}) in gemrb/core/CMakeList.txt, and drom the gemrb_core and ${CMAKE_DL_LIBS} from gemrb/CMakeLists.txt
[05:13:09] <tomprince> If you are planning on releasing a package, I would go with that, and it will be fixed for the next release hopefully.
[05:13:33] <xrogaan> tomprince: is -DCMAKE_SKIP_RPATH:BOOL=ON can introduce the problem ?
[05:14:23] <xrogaan> also, I have another issue
[05:14:30] <tomprince> No.
[05:14:36] <xrogaan> my libdir is set to /usr/lib64/
[05:14:50] <xrogaan> but the files are installed under /usr/lib/
[05:14:56] <xrogaan> which is bad
[05:16:37] <xrogaan> And I don't understand why
[05:17:50] <tomprince> You need to do something like -DLIBDIR='${CMAKE_INSTALL_PREFIX}/lib64/gemrb', or something.
[05:20:30] <xrogaan> cmake is run with : -DCMAKE_INSTALL_LIBDIR:PATH=/usr/lib64 and -DLIB_INSTALL_DIR:PATH=/usr/lib64
[05:22:34] <tomprince> Yes, well ... we don't use those variables ...
[05:22:50] <xrogaan> You should :P
[05:25:15] <xrogaan> It would my work easier :P
[05:27:28] <xrogaan> tomprince: okay
[05:28:01] <xrogaan> there is no LIBDIR in CMakeList.txt, but there is LIB_DIR
[05:28:14] <tomprince> Then use that. :)
[05:28:42] <xrogaan> problem is : it set the lib to $var/lib
[05:29:33] <tomprince> Then you have to expand the var yourself. :(
[05:30:03] <xrogaan> I don't understand the LAYOUT variable
[05:30:30] <tomprince> Is CMAKE_INSTALL_LIBDIR documented anywhere? In some ways, I find the cmake documentation vague and incomplete. I don't think I found any documentation on standard variable names for configuring cmake anywhere.
[05:30:42] <xrogaan> yeah
[05:30:56] <xrogaan> but I've got this : ./build/CMakeCache.txt:CMAKE_INSTALL_LIBDIR:PATH=/usr/lib64
[05:31:39] <tomprince> That's 'cause you passed it in.
[05:32:00] <xrogaan> 'kay
[05:32:18] <xrogaan> i'm not familiar with cmake, so ...
[05:32:22] <tomprince> You probably want -DLAYOUT=fhs if you are packaging it.
[05:33:13] <xrogaan> fhs set the lib to ./lib/gemrb
[05:33:32] <xrogaan> Do I have to patch that file ?
[05:33:56] <xrogaan> Or, do I try to tell rpmbuild to use /usr/lib anyway ?
[05:34:12] <tomprince> Actually LAYOUT=fhs is default on unix. And no, if you pass -DLIB_DIR, it should override the setting.
[05:35:09] <xrogaan> okay
[05:38:47] <tomprince> Any other issues?
[05:40:09] <xrogaan> I don't think so
[05:40:50] <xrogaan> everything seems fine
[05:41:38] <xrogaan> thanks for your help
[05:42:47] <tomprince> re: CMAKE_INSTALL_LIBDIR ... patches welcome, although it would be nice to see some documentation.
[05:42:49] <xrogaan> i'm finishing that spec file
[05:43:06] <tomprince> I seem to recall looking for some when I added those variables, and couldn't find any.
[05:43:32] <xrogaan> well, CMAKE_INSTALL_LIBDIR is in the rpmbuild macro
[05:48:33] <xrogaan> I took the spec file from the tarball
[05:49:03] <xrogaan> it's a way too old
[05:50:51] <tomprince> I don't think any of the developers use it, since we all build from source.
[05:55:05] <tomprince> If you have a working spec file, we could update the one in the repo.
[06:01:57] <xrogaan> yep, but i'm still hitting a problem with the %file section
[06:02:08] <xrogaan> I need to list every file that needs to be packed
[06:08:38] <xrogaan> eh eh eh, DONE
[06:11:48] <xrogaan> is this still accurate ? http://dpaste.com/284211/
[06:14:26] <tomprince> It seems so. You may want to ask again in a few hours.
[06:16:44] <xrogaan> Which group belong gemrb ?
[06:17:25] <xrogaan> not an emulator
[06:18:41] <xrogaan> Games/Adventure perhapse ?
[06:18:53] <xrogaan> -e
[06:43:33] <xrogaan> aaah
[06:43:37] <xrogaan> n a few hours.
[06:43:37] <xrogaan> 07:16 < xrogaan> Which group belong gemrb ?
[06:43:41] <xrogaan> arh
[06:43:45] <xrogaan> gemrb: error while loading shared libraries: libgemrb_core.so: cannot open shared object file: No such file or directory
[06:51:23] <tomprince> That may be related to the rpath stuff.
[06:53:55] <xrogaan> better ON or OFF ?
[06:54:25] <tomprince> Well, the error you described seems related to not having rpaths set appropriately.
[06:56:28] <xrogaan> mokay
[07:01:34] <xrogaan> it is said that rpath needs to be OFF by default. I wonder why it's set to ON in the macro
[07:02:39] <xrogaan> yay ! It works
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[08:56:10] <edheldil> Hi all
[08:56:21] <lynxlynxlynx> moo
[08:57:36] * edheldil pours lynx a fresh bucket or water to trough and brings a heap of hay. Should I milk you as well? ;-)
[08:58:12] * lynxlynxlynx puffs angrily
[09:03:17] <xrogaan> so, I've got a working .spec file for gemrb
[09:03:51] <xrogaan> > http://en.pastebin.ca/2013604
[09:05:33] <lynxlynxlynx> that's for rh?
[09:06:12] <lynxlynxlynx> i've modified the current one for use in opensuse, but it is incompatible with debian, rh and others for some reason
[09:06:34] <lynxlynxlynx> the build service does support individual specs though
[09:15:58] <edheldil> should spec file be compatible with debian???
[09:18:12] <edheldil> xrogaan: License: GPLv2 <- does it mean v2 or higher?
[09:19:23] <lubos> not with officially Debian, http://cs.opensuse.org/Build_Service
[09:19:53] <edheldil> GemRB (Game engine made with preRendered Background) <- capitalise E and M as well
[09:20:03] <edheldil> thanks
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[09:23:24] <edheldil> also : I would be wary of mentioning D&D anywhere in the description - first, with exception of IWD2 it's actually AD&D, and second, legal issues
[09:24:04] <lubos> lynxlynxlynx: Why is created libgemrb_core.so ?
[09:24:06] <edheldil> I hope that one day we can get away without any D&D stuff in core
[09:24:53] <edheldil> would not it be better to mention Baldur's Gate or PS:T?
[09:25:15] <tomprince> lubos: That is the easiest way to get plugins to link against a main program (esp. on windows).
[09:25:30] <tomprince> Mind you, not necessarily the best.
[09:28:47] <edheldil> xrogaan: wgy do you make *.so files mode 755?
[09:30:00] <wjp> all .so files on my system are 755
[09:31:12] <edheldil> not on mine :)
[09:31:29] <edheldil> but that's not RH
[09:46:12] <xrogaan> yeah, sorry, i was away
[09:46:22] <xrogaan> that's for mandriva, i'm on mandriva
[09:46:50] <xrogaan> GPLv2 is GPLv2, read it
[09:48:11] <xrogaan> I took the spec file present in the tarball as basis
[09:49:06] <xrogaan> edheldil: there is no E nor M in the website description, btw
[09:49:58] <edheldil> that's a separate issue :-P
[09:50:27] <edheldil> but our files state "gPLv2 or higher"
[09:50:36] <xrogaan> well, I updated the description with the website content
[09:50:50] <xrogaan> edheldil: GPLv2 is "v2 or higher"
[09:50:56] <edheldil> ok
[09:51:20] <xrogaan> We don't have to write it specificly
[09:51:42] <tomprince> xrogaan: Not true. It can be, but it doesn't have to be.
[09:52:02] <tomprince> The linux kernel is, for example GPLv2 *only*
[09:52:09] <edheldil> the point is, that "GPLv2" and "GPLv2 or higher" are different licenses
[09:52:53] <edheldil> exactly. Linus does not like v3 :)
[09:52:56] <xrogaan> there is no "or higher" for the License tag of a spec file
[09:53:07] <xrogaan> but, you can add more Licenses
[09:53:37] <edheldil> is not there GPLv2+ value or st. like that?
[09:54:50] <lubos> My licenses investigation: http://svn.debian.org/viewsvn/pkg-games/packages/trunk/gemrb/debian/copyright?revision=11371&view=markup
[09:55:30] <xrogaan> there is no LICENSE file, anyway
[09:56:14] <edheldil> there's COPYING
[09:56:34] <xrogaan> ah, yeah
[09:58:22] <edheldil> xrogaan: there is GPLv2+ value, at least on Mandriva
[09:59:41] <xrogaan> yeah, consider it done. Anyway I'm no maintainer at mandriva
[10:09:15] <xrogaan> i'm just making the spec :p
[10:13:54] <xrogaan> anyway, the "test run" doesn't work if we are in a x64 arch
[10:14:03] <xrogaan> -anyway
[10:19:00] <xrogaan> new spec : http://en.pastebin.ca/2013649
[10:28:30] <edheldil> is not there category Games/RPG? :)
[10:29:21] <edheldil> although I am sure it could be hacked for adventure games as well :)
[10:30:48] <edheldil> and I do not like the Summary much, but hopefully sb. will have a more constructive suggestion
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[10:34:16] <xrogaan> well, if there is already some packets out there (like debian ones), it's best to unify all thoses details
[10:38:13] <lynxlynxlynx> i'll get this into the obs eventually
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[15:41:33] <neonlightning> is njw's or nd's installer more updated?
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[15:42:01] <neonlightning> i'm using nd's and it doesn't recognize the icewind dale dvd
[16:00:11] <lynxlynxlynx> what os are you on?
[16:01:00] <neonlightning> linux
[16:01:19] <neonlightning> debian sid with some squeeze packages
[16:02:21] <lynxlynxlynx> did you try to install via wine?
[16:03:23] <neonlightning> i installled bg1 just fine(although i didn't relize that the installer didn't have widescreen patch so i found out 1024x600 has some interesting result lol but 800x600 works fine
[16:04:35] <neonlightning> no just using the autoinstaller from njw that was updated by nd
[16:05:44] <lynxlynxlynx> try it then
[16:06:21] <lynxlynxlynx> mail the author about the dvd thing, he'll want some md5 sums to make it work
[16:07:43] <neonlightning> i'm thinking using the ushield method would be more simple then the wine method
[16:08:23] <fuzzie> in theory, if your exact edition of the game is supported by the installer and it doesn't mess something up
[16:11:51] <neonlightning> shame the one i want most of all isn't supported yet. planescape but oh well figured i'd finally get around to playing icewind dale
[16:12:39] <lynxlynxlynx> blame the authors; they mostly made a mess out of a pretty decent engine
[16:13:27] <lynxlynxlynx> i'm of course refering to the game creators, not us ;)
[16:14:59] <neonlightning> lol yea they did what they could though as you guys are doing. they took the confines of a specific engine and did as much to make a new game with it as they could. and made one hell of a game(granted has some killer bugs) when will they learn supporting stuff like this will mean more purchases of the games
[16:44:22] <lynxlynxlynx> fuzzie: did you look at the arm patches?
[16:47:58] <fuzzie> i'm not sure what did or didn't get applied?
[16:48:20] <lynxlynxlynx> the ifdefed alignment mess
[16:48:43] <lynxlynxlynx> http://sprunge.us/KNHR?diff
[16:48:44] <fuzzie> oh, that looked ok
[16:49:24] <fuzzie> the cmp4cc is silly though, memcmp(a, b, 4) should suffice?
[16:49:32] <lynxlynxlynx> one } removed too many too
[16:50:04] <fuzzie> and in MouseClickEvent, the (SDL_Event *) at the end can go
[16:50:10] <lynxlynxlynx> yeah
[16:50:16] <lynxlynxlynx> i was wondering why it was converted at all
[16:51:43] <fuzzie> but otherwise that change is v.good
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[16:53:11] <fuzzie> the patch as a whole doesn't make much sense though
[16:54:11] <fuzzie> i mean, because i'm not very awake :)
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[16:57:58] <lynxlynxlynx> should it be checking more general defines (like the sdl endianess)?
[16:58:42] <fuzzie> well, i'm wondering what they're trying to fix here
[16:58:57] <fuzzie> i tried this, and none of the code which actually runs had alignment issues
[16:59:59] <fuzzie> the masking in DrawPolyline seems suspicious without endian checks to me, as does the stuff in BIKPlayer
[17:00:08] <lynxlynxlynx> from what I've read, this was needed in making it compile
[17:00:29] <fuzzie> well, without -Wcast-align -Werror on, it shouldn't be needed
[17:01:10] <lynxlynxlynx> oh, false positives?
[17:01:50] <fuzzie> well, maybe the BIKPlayer stuff, i don't know what's going on there :)
[17:02:18] <fuzzie> but it's weird because i got loads of errors elsewhere with -Wcast-align -Werror turned on, gemrb wasn't compilable at all
[17:02:52] <lynxlynxlynx> also, in the first post he said he turned -Werror off
[17:02:58] <lynxlynxlynx> http://forums.gibberlings3.net/index.php?showtopic=21327&st=0
[17:03:08] <fuzzie> but i would say that MouseClickEvent is an obvious correct fix, WAVReader should really be using memcmp, and the rest of the fixes don't seem bad but I'm not well enough to work out if they're correct.
[17:04:53] <lynxlynxlynx> some of it is supposedly for performance
[17:05:30] <lynxlynxlynx> yucky
[17:09:41] <fuzzie> well, the modified code has the potential to do unaligned accesses, i'm just not convinced any of it actually does
[17:09:52] <fuzzie> cleaning it up is fine if the code is correct..
[17:13:02] <lynxlynxlynx> ok, i'll communicate it up
[17:13:47] <CIA-5> GemRB: 03lynxlupodian * r0bb992b99139 10gemrb/gemrb/plugins/SDLVideo/SDLVideo.cpp: cleanup MouseClickEvent, patch by ShadowJack
[17:15:40] <fuzzie> well, you can also just apply it, and one of us will fix it when we're sentient and have time :)
[17:16:10] <lynxlynxlynx> sounds dangerous with your track record :P
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[17:42:29] <lynxlynxlynx> ouch, hit a selection assert
[17:43:41] <lynxlynxlynx> can't reproduce though
[17:49:08] <CIA-5> GemRB: 03lynxlupodian * r867a1b77c0c2 10gemrb/gemrb/core/GUI/ (Control.cpp GameControl.cpp MapControl.cpp): Android keyboard hacks, based on a patch by Beholder
[17:54:59] <tomprince> Would specifying __attribute__((packed)) tell the compiler to be smart enough about alignment so that we don't need the #ifdefing or anything?
[17:56:44] <lynxlynxlynx> is that supported enough or is it a specific compiler extension?
[17:58:01] <lynxlynxlynx> heh, the second google hit is: Why you shouldn’t use __attribute__((packed))
[18:00:50] <tomprince> Well, the bad effects are exactly what we want: generating code for unaligned access.
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[18:16:30] <neonlightning> hrm noticed playonlinux has a planescape entry and i installed it fine using that but i'm trying to run the weidu patches to make it playable but just after selecting language its locking up at copying and patching files using wine and i can't figure out how to run a commandline program in pol
[18:18:38] <fuzzie> just use the linux weidu
[18:18:57] <fuzzie> or you mean playonlinux is doing something weirder?
[18:20:05] <neonlightning> i am just used to weidu patches being a exe and a folder that i just run from the install dir i've never used one in linux before
[18:21:15] <lynxlynxlynx> locked up or completed its work or endlessly looping?
[18:21:47] <neonlightning> it just sits at copying or patching 1 file(s)
[18:22:32] <lynxlynxlynx> give it some time
[18:24:22] <neonlightning> there is no io activity coming from the wine process at all
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[19:06:14] <lynxlynxlynx> oh git
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[19:17:27] <xrogaan> i'm back
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[20:30:29] <Lightkey> edheldil: why capitalised e and m? it's not GEMRB (for whatever reason) but GemRB
[20:33:03] <tomprince> Well, if I pronounce it, I would say gem arr bee
[20:35:29] <Lightkey> indeed, just like ScummVM ;-)
[20:37:27] <Lightkey> on the other hand, even though they write it like that, it's still capitalised when written out *nod*
[20:40:55] <deepinthewoods> would any of you fine gentlemen be willing to help me make a new game? guiscript and changing the rules to not be adnd...?
[20:41:34] <Lightkey> *chirp* *chirp*
[20:42:26] <deepinthewoods> yeah that was the response on the forum too :(
[20:42:49] <fuzzie> someone was working on that, i thought
[20:42:57] <tomprince> deepinthewoods: I'm sure you will get support for creating a game.
[20:43:02] <deepinthewoods> what's actually involved in changing the rules? is it set in the guiscript or would it involve loads of changes to the actual aengine code?
[20:43:22] <tomprince> Although it would be quite a bit of work to get radically different rules.
[20:44:16] <fuzzie> yes; some of it is hardcoded into the C++ side, it really depends what you'd want to change
[20:45:13] <deepinthewoods> I was thinking making the attack/save rolls a d10, then make new to-hit tables et
[20:46:39] <tomprince> The thac0 tables are just in a file.
[20:47:00] <tomprince> I think chaning the die would require more work.
[20:49:46] <tomprince> GemRB wasn't really designed (architechted?) with the idea of changing the rules around, so lots and lots of stuff is hard-coded.
[20:50:05] <fuzzie> well, it would involve a lot of abstraction of things which we still don't quite understand
[20:51:06] <deepinthewoods> would it be possible to make something non copyright infringing just by changing all the 2da's?
[20:51:13] <deepinthewoods> and new spells and stuff obviously
[20:51:43] <lynxlynxlynx> pretty much
[20:51:55] <lynxlynxlynx> your work on animations is a good step forward
[20:52:12] <tomprince> One thing to think about: the important part of the game isn't the rules, but the content.
[20:52:35] <lynxlynxlynx> maighistir is who started a new game skeleton and there are also a few simple ideas on the wiki
[20:54:35] <tomprince> I think you would probably get more intereset in abstracting things so that you can change the rules, if you have some non-trivial amount of content.
[20:55:14] <deepinthewoods> I was thinking just a basic arena type duelling thing would be a good start. I made that map for it... I've also got buttons and stuff made now but DLTCEP has some problems with CHUs
[20:55:19] <tomprince> I'd certainly be more interested at that point.
[20:56:06] <deepinthewoods> yeah I don't want you guys to make loads of changes if there's no point
[20:59:20] <lynxlynxlynx> sounds like a pretty simple concept; a good start by itself
[20:59:59] <tomprince> Also, long-term this wouldn't be ideal, but the main reason that making radical changes to the rules is that we also need to still support IE.
[21:00:01] <lynxlynxlynx> if you have problems with dltcep, report them to avenger (most easily on the forum)
[21:00:27] <deepinthewoods> yeah I'm sure he's just busy :)
[21:00:54] <tomprince> It would be possible to form GemRB, and then changing the rules to suit.
[21:01:15] <tomprince> Which might even be a sensible thing to do to figure out how to do the abstraction, so we can support both.
[21:12:32] <deepinthewoods> ok thanks dudes. I will get back to work...
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[21:15:43] <xrogaan> okay
[21:15:52] <xrogaan> so I had some issues with the packaging stuff
[21:17:15] <xrogaan> tomprince helped me but he said that I migh want to notice the knights :P
[21:17:49] <xrogaan> A bit late, I'm sorry
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[21:36:28] <deepinthewoods> can anyone tell me how to make new animation slots?
[21:38:49] <lynxlynxlynx> slots?
[21:41:21] <deepinthewoods> erm... like in shadowkeeper, it has a menu under Appearance so you can make your char look lieka drow all the time or whatever
[21:42:24] <fuzzie> i guess assigning an animation id? in gemrb, add it to avatars.2da
[21:43:43] <deepinthewoods> ok will try that. what's the console command for
[21:43:51] <deepinthewoods> changing appearance?
[21:44:18] <deepinthewoods> and also, how do you open the console in gemrb? I've never figured it out...
[21:44:36] <fuzzie> ctrl-space for the console
[21:45:12] <lynxlynxlynx> SetPlayerStat(1, IE_ANIMATION_ID, value)
[21:45:18] <fuzzie> and 'SetPlayerStat(1, IE_ANIMATION_ID, whatever)'
[21:45:19] <fuzzie> heh
[21:45:27] <lynxlynxlynx> ;)
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[22:09:32] <xrogaan> so, any updates on the summary for the package ?
[22:11:12] <lynxlynxlynx> looks fine to me
[22:11:46] <xrogaan> 'Port of the original Infinity (Game) Engine' ?
[22:12:11] <lynxlynxlynx> it's more of a reimplementation
[22:12:50] <lynxlynxlynx> the (Game) is not needed imo
[22:13:31] <Lightkey> xrogaan: port would mean to use the original source code
[22:14:56] <xrogaan> do you have a better word for "reimplementation" ?
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[22:20:17] <lynxlynxlynx> recreation?
[22:21:42] <Lightkey> someone invented "game engine recreation" for the Wikipedia article on such projects ;-)
[22:22:04] <Lightkey> but never heard of that elsewhere
[22:22:23] <lynxlynxlynx> wasn't me :)
[22:22:26] <Lightkey> usually most just use "clone"
[22:22:46] <lynxlynxlynx> but we're better and worse :)
[22:23:48] <lynxlynxlynx> need to work more on publicity and then we can get our wikipedia page back
[22:30:30] <Lightkey> xrogaan: personally, I don't see what's wrong with reimplementation
[22:30:52] <Lightkey> even xchat approves of it as correct grammar *g*
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[22:35:05] <Lightkey> xrogaan: you could probably just copy the Debian package description for Exult
[22:35:14] <Lightkey> Exult is an open source engine for playing Ultima VII on a variety of modern operating systems and environments. The Black Gate (including Forge of Virtue) and Serpent
[22:35:15] <Lightkey> Isle (plus Silver Seed) are both playable to the end. Some differences to the original games exist; see sections 5.3/5.4 of the FAQ.
[22:35:15] <Lightkey>
[22:35:15] <Lightkey> While it is possible to use the engine for other games, no such game has been written yet. Therefore, Exult is useless unless you own a copy of one of the Ultima VIIs.
[22:36:21] <Lightkey> followed by the homepage
[22:37:06] <Lightkey> short line is just "engine for Ultima VII (BG, FOV, SI, SS)"
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[22:38:12] <Lightkey> neonlightning: j0
[22:51:54] <xrogaan> Lightkey: I just whish for the summary
[23:02:20] <Lightkey> no clue what you mean
[23:06:54] <fuzzie> the one-line short summary
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[23:27:34] <xrogaan> Lightkey: summary of the package. Not the whole description ?
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[23:43:29] <Lightkey> <Lightkey> short line is just "engine for Ultima VII (BG, FOV, SI, SS)"