#gemrb@irc.freenode.net logs for 8 Dec 2012 (GMT)

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[05:46:14] <rocket_hamster> Baldur's Gate Enhanced Edition let's play: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_9nO37sr0Tg&feature=plcp
[05:46:25] <rocket_hamster> there is also second part on that channel
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[10:54:54] <rocket_hamster> lynx
[10:55:27] <rocket_hamster> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qfWetGC0eDI&feature=g-subs-u
[11:01:27] <rocket_hamster> they have a nice zoom in feature
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[12:06:29] <lynxlynxlynx> maybe it's nice on handhelds, haven't seen any positive feedback about it on pc
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[12:31:43] <Gekz> the zoom feature on PC is meh
[12:31:45] <Gekz> it's pretty pointless.
[12:32:11] <Gekz> no loading screens is quite nice though
[12:32:19] <Gekz> instant quicksave too
[12:32:38] <Gekz> wild mage character is amusing :)
[12:39:13] <lynxlynxlynx> no loading screens - it loads the stuff in the background? do you have to wait anyway?
[12:44:44] <Gekz> it loads instantly
[12:44:57] <Gekz> so I'm assuming it's caching the surrounding areas in the background
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[13:08:33] <lynxlynxlynx> nice feature, but it could be a problem on low end devices
[13:19:50] <chiv> i like the zoom feature myself
[13:20:48] <chiv> i wish they had let you zoom out further though, would have been a nice alternative to the automap
[13:51:31] <Gekz> lynxlynxlynx: I don't have any low end devices to test on, but it might dynamically cache it
[13:54:21] <chiv> it doesnt play well with my netbook, but only because of intel drivers I think is the reason they are saying
[13:54:34] <Gekz> yeah
[13:54:44] <Gekz> OpenGL 2.0 is playing havoc on those devices.
[13:54:53] <Gekz> I heard there's a workaround on the forums
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[14:18:17] <lynxlynxlynx> avenger is working on a workaround for them
[14:18:53] <Avenger> actually, the dxt1 unpacker is already in, i think. But not mine.
[14:19:39] <Avenger> i don't know though. I work on modding stuff, not engine stuff
[14:20:12] <Avenger> fighting weidu a lot
[14:20:20] <lynxlynxlynx> ah
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[15:12:09] <lynxlynxlynx> fuzzie: do you still get an openal crash on exit with gemrb?
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[15:13:31] <chiv> bug report: it seems like GUICG10.py should import GUICommon - otherwise the multiclass option for chargen is broken?
[15:14:09] <lynxlynxlynx> which game?
[15:14:14] <chiv> bg2
[15:14:30] <chiv> tob specifically
[15:15:21] <lynxlynxlynx> right, my fault
[15:16:36] <lynxlynxlynx> thanks
[15:17:03] <chiv> no worries
[15:17:37] <fuzzie> lynxlynxlynx: well, it's a race condition, so not always
[15:18:48] <fuzzie> I think I still triggered it once since my last commit, but probably that's a more complex problem.
[15:18:53] <lynxlynxlynx> the amiga porter wrote a patch that skips the wait and stops audio directly
[15:19:00] <lynxlynxlynx> http://forums.gibberlings3.net/index.php?showtopic=21410&pid=206101&st=15&#entry206101
[15:19:12] <lynxlynxlynx> was just wondering whether the same should be generalised
[15:19:22] <fuzzie> that sounds like it would be exactly the wrong thing
[15:19:58] <fuzzie> The commit fixing my original problem moved that WaitThread call specifically because it *must* be called before audio is stopped.
[15:20:24] <fuzzie> the other one loioks correct though
[15:20:35] <fuzzie> I think I actually had that one locally too.
[15:21:31] <fuzzie> the problem there is: the music thread must die early
[15:21:54] <fuzzie> because it's trying to play music from within game archives
[15:23:16] <fuzzie> and without an explicit release, the AudioDriver doesn't die until *last* thing
[15:23:29] <fuzzie> well, ok, second-to-last, the video dies last
[15:23:39] <fuzzie> so that is clearly not good :)
[15:24:08] <fuzzie> there's no need for '= NULL' though, just release() is fine
[15:25:22] <lynxlynxlynx> so just the audio bit is worth scavanging?
[15:25:35] <fuzzie> well, the video bit seems fine too
[15:26:14] <fuzzie> I can't think why it'd be necessary but it's harmless to always do it.
[15:26:27] <fuzzie> oh I see
[15:26:42] <fuzzie> video->release(); is different
[15:26:52] <fuzzie> just 'video.release();' and 'AudioDriver.release();' should be fine.
[15:27:01] <fuzzie> no need for NULL checks or setting stuff to NULL or etc.
[15:27:41] <fuzzie> was wondering why those were there, but of course, it's because the code is using '->' and not '.' :)
[15:28:06] <fuzzie> well I hope that made some sense anyway
[15:29:08] <fuzzie> I still have no proper internet at home. We diagnosed the problem on Friday (fiber isn't patched in at the local POP), responsible people are very apologetic, hopefully fixed next week.
[15:29:33] <lynxlynxlynx> uff, they took their time
[15:30:24] <fuzzie> The ISP has no clue at all.
[15:30:37] <lynxlynxlynx> http://sprunge.us/XgMO?diff <-- right at the end?
[15:30:49] <fuzzie> We got contacts at the fiber infrastructure company instead and managed to get enough info to work it out.
[15:31:01] <fuzzie> yes, that sounds good
[15:31:19] <lynxlynxlynx> you are patient
[15:34:50] <fuzzie> not much choice. :/
[15:40:06] <lynxlynxlynx> no other provider?
[15:52:59] <fuzzie> there's DSL or cable here too
[15:53:29] <fuzzie> but we signed a contract with this fiber ISP and can't terminate it for non-performance quite yet
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[17:19:53] <chiv> avenger: are you able to report how well the progress on getting mods into bgee is going?
[17:20:25] <Avenger> i don't know anything about that, because i'm not involved with mods
[17:20:48] <Avenger> i know what mods have been worked INTO bgee
[17:21:02] <chiv> oh I see, i misunderstood, but what did you mean about fighting weidu?
[17:21:28] <lynxlynxlynx> chiv, it's going pretty well
[17:21:30] <Avenger> i submit changes using weidu
[17:21:56] <lynxlynxlynx> not sure if weidu already has a proper gameis check for bgee though
[17:21:58] <Avenger> but i've never really used weidu before
[17:22:22] <lynxlynxlynx> painful huh
[17:22:49] <Avenger> yeah, modifying a 2da is so horrible in weidu, you couldn't possibly imagine :)
[17:23:24] <chiv> isnt that what diff is for?
[17:23:25] <lynxlynxlynx> i can, but 2das are relatively pretty
[17:23:41] <lynxlynxlynx> we use the same syntax with extend2da.py
[17:24:08] <Avenger> i don't think weidu can address a 2da by column/row names
[17:24:18] <Avenger> and it breaks the signature on output
[17:24:26] <lynxlynxlynx> use $ $
[17:24:32] <lynxlynxlynx> if you're adding columns
[17:24:48] <lynxlynxlynx> $ means an empty cell, so it won't break the first two lines
[17:24:55] <Avenger> replace_textually?
[17:25:03] <lynxlynxlynx> extend_2da iirc
[17:25:06] <lynxlynxlynx> lemme chek
[17:25:57] <lynxlynxlynx> APPEND_COL ~25stweap.2da~ ~$ $ SORCERER_MONK_CLERIC * * HELM19 BAG23 RING31 RING27 CLCK02 BOOT05 AMUL21 BRAC09 BELT10 * BULL03,40 *
[17:25:57] <Avenger> ok, lets say, i have a table named weapprof.2da there is a MAGE column and a 2HANDED row. I want to change this field if it is 1, to 0
[17:26:15] <Avenger> no, i don't want to append, i want to replace an existing field
[17:27:02] <Avenger> weapprof is full of similar values/sequences, so replace textually basically dead
[17:27:09] <lynxlynxlynx> SET_2DA_ENTRY doesn't support named cols/rows it seems
[17:27:16] <Avenger> i know
[17:27:20] <Avenger> i had to implement it :D
[17:27:25] <lynxlynxlynx> ouch
[17:27:44] <lynxlynxlynx> i remember looking at that caml a few times and couldn't even find the implementation of some stuff
[17:27:47] <Avenger> but 2da indexing in weidu sux
[17:27:58] <Avenger> it counts the header
[17:28:05] <lynxlynxlynx> yeah
[17:28:16] <Avenger> that's so fscked up
[17:28:37] <Avenger> they could SET_2DA_DEFAULT / SET_2DA_ENTRY
[17:28:46] <lynxlynxlynx> i don't know why anyone would want to change the signature, but changing the default value has a merit
[17:28:52] <lynxlynxlynx> mhm
[17:29:04] <Avenger> and handle string type cols/rows with ~~
[17:29:46] <Avenger> no one should ever touch the signature
[17:30:02] <Avenger> especially not into 2DA V1.0
[17:30:12] <Avenger> one space should be enough
[17:30:19] <lynxlynxlynx> fixpack might, since there are bad ones out there
[17:30:32] <lynxlynxlynx> but it's noticable only with gemrb
[17:30:46] <lynxlynxlynx> oh, dltcep too maybe
[17:31:04] <Avenger> i think it coughs a little from it, iirc
[17:31:58] <Avenger> the problem is, weidu formats the header like that
[17:32:46] <chiv> how many versions are there?
[17:32:47] <lynxlynxlynx> should be an easy fix
[17:32:56] <lynxlynxlynx> chiv: 1
[17:32:59] <Avenger> versions of weidu?
[17:33:02] <chiv> 2da
[17:33:06] <Avenger> ah, just one
[17:33:35] <chiv> i mean, the first 3 letters should suffice ?
[17:33:41] <Avenger> yes
[17:34:36] <Avenger> but you still have to read till an end of line
[17:34:59] <chiv> weidu scares me anyway
[17:35:27] <Avenger> it is a great idea and evolved a lot, but apparently on not enough
[17:35:59] <chiv> i do like the idea, but I have yet to bother decyphering it
[17:36:24] <Avenger> the syntax is sometimes unforgiving
[17:36:27] <lynxlynxlynx> the main point of it is to be like diff/patch, but for all these binary formats too
[17:36:43] <lynxlynxlynx> in a programmatic way, so there are much less conflicts
[17:37:09] <lynxlynxlynx> but yeah, you still have to count various offsets and sizes manually
[17:38:47] <Avenger> weidu quiz: how many syntax errors are in this: for ( i=0; i<10; i++ ) BEGIN END
[17:39:28] <chiv> is it 500 ?
[17:39:56] <Avenger> less
[17:40:10] <lynxlynxlynx> shouldn't that be a php_for or something? i remember it has different flavours
[17:40:33] <Avenger> its fixed form would work in a 'patch'
[17:40:34] <lynxlynxlynx> i doubt any of the operators work
[17:40:49] <lynxlynxlynx> nor the semicolon
[17:40:57] <Avenger> only one of the operators is buggy
[17:41:31] <Avenger> it should be ++i
[17:41:36] <Avenger> O_o
[17:42:01] <Avenger> semicolon is correct
[17:42:20] <Avenger> but, it should be FOR
[17:42:33] <Avenger> that caused me some 2-3 hours alone :D
[17:43:19] <lynxlynxlynx> hah
[17:43:47] <Avenger> this is correct, i think: FOR ( i=0; i<10; ++i) BEGIN END
[17:44:32] <Avenger> but i still didn't figure out where i must use space
[17:44:47] <Avenger> FOR( breaks, i think
[17:45:02] <chiv> that sounds like my worst nightmare
[17:45:25] <Avenger> hmm no, it doesn't break
[17:45:35] <Avenger> i guess my problem was mostly the lowercase
[17:45:59] <chiv> i have enough trouble using python without a syntax checker...
[17:46:01] <Avenger> probably it is in the weidu manual
[17:51:11] <lynxlynxlynx> chiv: use an editor that supports it
[17:51:38] <lynxlynxlynx> they can warn you about some stuff without running the code
[17:52:31] <chiv> i havent even investigated that to be honest, though I should
[17:53:07] <lynxlynxlynx> gemrb is a harder nut though, since we have two modules constructed at runtime, so some stuff can't work
[19:26:31] <chiv> bug report : in dualclass.py, it seems like DCMainDonePress needs to use global var ClassName, but it isnt - dual class options can be selected, but not applied as a result
[19:30:05] <lynxlynxlynx> OldClassName is a global
[19:30:52] <lynxlynxlynx> i see what you mean
[19:31:01] <chiv> it only breaks when you hit Done after you have chosen everything
[19:32:09] <chiv> because I think Classname gets changed to the new player class at some point, but the script forgets to use it
[19:32:19] <chiv> but only guessing...
[19:32:36] <lynxlynxlynx> it's not a recent regression
[19:32:53] <lynxlynxlynx> was i always dualing to mages? :s
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[19:33:29] <chiv> well, dualling to a thief is normally a rubbish idea
[19:45:40] <lynxlynxlynx> odd bug
[19:45:51] <lynxlynxlynx> i thought you only need to declare globals if you want to change them
[19:46:23] <chiv> <3 python
[19:51:06] <Avenger> yeah, python is very nice. When i first saw it, i hated it
[19:51:29] <Avenger> but it is really good, and without it, gemrb wouldn't be where it is now
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[19:53:08] <tomprince> You do only need to declare globals if you modify them.
[19:54:06] <lynxlynxlynx> i guess it was about ordering
[19:54:56] <lynxlynxlynx> hmm or the redefinition changed forced the non-use
[19:57:04] <tomprince> Yes, if you assign to it anywhere, you need to declare it.
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[20:29:23] <avenger> chiv are you sure item equipping code doesn't check min stats?
[20:29:37] <avenger> i vaguely remember it was done a long time ago
[20:30:46] <chiv> actually, I checked it with a composite longbow, but i remember the description was missing the 18 strength req... so i would have to check again
[20:31:53] <avenger> ok, check with something known, i'm looking at the code to be sure
[20:32:44] <avenger> int Actor::Unusable(Item *item) const
[20:32:56] <avenger> there it is
[20:34:33] <avenger> but this thing is configurable
[20:35:31] <avenger> it needs CheckAbilities = 1 in the game specific gemrb.ini
[21:03:51] <lynxlynxlynx> bg2 has it set
[21:04:05] <lynxlynxlynx> iirc strong arm is a bow with a set req
[21:13:38] <avenger> hey lynx
[21:13:52] <lynxlynxlynx> oj
[21:14:02] <avenger> what is the use of separating unhardcoded from override?
[21:14:10] <lynxlynxlynx> modding
[21:14:12] <avenger> is it just crowdedness?
[21:14:13] <avenger> oh
[21:14:17] <avenger> modding
[21:14:23] <lynxlynxlynx> unhardcoded has no precedence over the game override
[21:14:38] <lynxlynxlynx> so if someone wants to extend lets say classes.2da, they can do it with weidu as usual
[21:15:02] <chiv> if i might, may i suggest the word 'externalized' ?
[21:15:19] <lynxlynxlynx> basica?ly all our new stuff is in there, while what we really changed is in the override
[21:15:38] <avenger> i like that word better too, unhardcoded isn't even a word, i think :)
[21:15:58] <chiv> its an doubleplusunword :)
[21:16:31] <lynxlynxlynx> it's more specific
[21:16:37] <avenger> i just don't see how the two things are different
[21:16:44] <lynxlynxlynx> search order
[21:16:59] <avenger> how is it now?
[21:17:12] <avenger> i mean what is the search order now
[21:17:23] <lynxlynxlynx> override is still the top dog (after cache), game override, unhardcoded
[21:17:41] <lynxlynxlynx> there's also that ModPath, but it is unused and comes before our override
[21:18:00] <avenger> and what are the overlaps between override/exunhardcodedternal ?
[21:18:07] <lynxlynxlynx> none
[21:18:19] <lynxlynxlynx> why would there be any?
[21:18:24] <avenger> but you expect some?
[21:18:43] <lynxlynxlynx> oh, you meant game override? sure
[21:19:00] <lynxlynxlynx> i can simplify my mods for example
[21:19:04] <avenger> yes, i was not clear, i meant game override
[21:19:28] <lynxlynxlynx> the sorcerer-monk modifies classes and some other tables from our previous override
[21:19:48] <avenger> and how is it working now?
[21:19:48] <lynxlynxlynx> before you had to have access to where gemrb got installed, now it can be in the game dir
[21:20:33] <avenger> wait, that is modpath
[21:20:39] <lynxlynxlynx> no
[21:21:00] <lynxlynxlynx> Interface.cpp:1590
[21:21:01] <avenger> but both our override and the unhardcoded is gemrb owned
[21:21:21] <avenger> they are populated by gemrb data
[21:21:29] <lynxlynxlynx> yes, but things in our override have copies in the original games (they are real overrides)
[21:21:55] <lynxlynxlynx> things in unhardcoded are new files, completely ours and thus don't need precedence in the search path
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[21:22:23] <avenger> but it doesn't hurt either, so it could entirely be in the other
[21:22:37] <avenger> well, i see you reduced the amount of 'shared' files
[21:22:40] <tomprince> It does hurt, if somebody wants to mod them.
[21:22:43] <lynxlynxlynx> it does, otherwise we would always lookup the original files
[21:22:56] <lynxlynxlynx> or like before, it would be harder to mod
[21:23:41] <avenger> your mod is probably a good example, how is it easier
[21:24:21] <avenger> that was a question :)
[21:26:22] <avenger> i got an example: rndtreas.2da in pst, why is it in override?
[21:26:31] <lynxlynxlynx> http://paste.debian.net/215139/
[21:27:01] <lynxlynxlynx> rndtres is in there since you said the original has it hardcoded, though it does have a table
[21:27:09] <lynxlynxlynx> it is different though and it was extended once
[21:27:10] <avenger> ah yes
[21:27:34] <lynxlynxlynx> efftext is in there only to quiet the damage vb as far as i know
[21:28:15] <avenger> for iwd2 i took the lazy path and added lots of lines to it
[21:28:22] <lynxlynxlynx> spells.2da since it was unused in the original and we use it like it was probably intended
[21:28:22] <avenger> the original had them hardcoded
[21:28:48] <lynxlynxlynx> comet.pro and minorglob.vvc no idea, but it is probably in the log
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[21:29:10] <avenger> yeah, probably i should check those
[21:29:16] <avenger> when i got time ;)
[21:29:34] <lynxlynxlynx> they didn't move, so the history is intact without aerobics
[21:29:57] <lynxlynxlynx> "2 new unhardcoded projectiles"
[21:30:32] <lynxlynxlynx> u, minor globe is from 2006
[21:30:50] <avenger> if comet.pro didn't exist in the original then why is it handled differently ;)
[21:30:58] <lynxlynxlynx> fd60b9c60a4ce7aa39e7c78a7ce3e5d2baf46325 (supposedly missing or bad flags or something)
[21:31:25] <lynxlynxlynx> i think it does exist
[21:31:42] <lynxlynxlynx> i'll recheck
[21:33:48] <lynxlynxlynx> nope
[21:33:52] <lynxlynxlynx> i'll move it
[21:34:37] <avenger> ok, that was minorglb
[21:34:40] <avenger> and comet?
[21:34:51] <lynxlynxlynx> no, that was comet
[21:34:51] <avenger> i doubt it existed
[21:34:54] <lynxlynxlynx> minorglb is there
[21:34:59] <avenger> because it is a falling projectile
[21:35:11] <avenger> that was not externalized in gemrb
[21:35:13] <avenger> err. tob
[21:35:16] <avenger> O_o
[21:35:29] <avenger> i don't know what's up with minorglb
[21:35:39] <avenger> can you do a bin diff?
[21:35:49] <lynxlynxlynx> with ordinary diff?
[21:35:49] <avenger> or an ielister diff
[21:35:53] <avenger> that would be even better
[21:36:01] <avenger> let me see
[21:36:19] <lynxlynxlynx> i doubt i can build it
[21:36:30] <lynxlynxlynx> not sure how detailed coverage ie_sh has
[21:37:32] <avenger> you can't build ielister???
[21:37:36] <avenger> why
[21:38:22] <lynxlynxlynx> it looks win specific just from the filenames
[21:38:57] <lynxlynxlynx> This is an Infinity Engine filetype lister plugin written for TotalCmd <-- and
[21:38:57] <fuzzie> it's built fine for me
[21:39:08] <fuzzie> oh, not that :P
[21:39:32] <lynxlynxlynx> a mc plugin too
[21:39:35] <avenger> < 0018h Flags 00000008
[21:39:35] <avenger> ---
[21:39:35] <avenger> > 0018h Flags 00000002
[21:39:45] <avenger> that's all the diff
[21:40:11] <avenger> it is a cool thing, and not just because i wrote it
[21:40:14] <lynxlynxlynx> which bits did you exchange?
[21:40:36] <avenger> mine is 2, original was 8
[21:41:32] <avenger> these are the sparkle flags, flying and looping second sound?
[21:41:44] <avenger> i don't think it is actually needed
[21:41:51] <avenger> maybe just mistake :)
[21:42:03] <avenger> i think the original would work just as well
[21:42:25] <lynxlynxlynx> hey lurkers, we need a tester :9
[21:42:27] <avenger> and this could be ... well, use it for bg1, so it cannot be said i stole it :D
[21:42:44] <avenger> it is pretty good i almost reproduced the original,haha
[21:43:07] <avenger> i don't know why it was in bg2
[21:43:34] <lynxlynxlynx> it's one of those large seven things at a time commits, so it's hard to tell
[21:45:00] <avenger> well, it could be added to the wiki todo: check if gemrb works well without our minorglb or not
[21:45:11] <avenger> still better than implementing the stats, lol
[21:45:55] <avenger> i'm so much in bgee, i can hardly think about anything else, at the moment. and probably i shouldn't mix the two anyway
[21:46:15] <lynxlynxlynx> so much for the gemrb productive vacation eh?
[21:46:31] <avenger> well, when i planned that, i thought they want to ditch me ;D
[21:47:06] <lynxlynxlynx> turned out better :)
[21:48:02] <avenger> well, the players became quite happy from the number of patches and how fast we respond. I guess it is 2 weeks till everything goes calm
[21:48:16] <avenger> then i still have some time, maybe
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[21:48:32] <avenger> i doubt they want to keep up the rate during xmas
[21:48:57] <chiv> i dont understand why people get worked up, i dont know any pc game that i would play without a patch
[21:49:28] <lynxlynxlynx> why release it early then? it's an industry fsckup
[21:49:32] <avenger> well, there are trolls, and hardcore fans who got disappointed, and hardcore fans who love it all the time
[21:49:52] <avenger> if it was delayed again after 2.5 months delay?
[21:49:59] <lynxlynxlynx> only id and valve take their time (that i can think of)
[21:50:01] <avenger> the middle camp would have turned against them :)
[21:50:02] <chiv> but its not like you can expect a pc game to not have a patch imo
[21:50:37] <avenger> with this quick patching and earlier release, they got 2/3 majority and the trolls are going to diminish gradually
[21:50:40] <lynxlynxlynx> of course not, but it should have as little blockers as possible
[21:50:49] <avenger> there are no real blockers
[21:50:56] <chiv> I actually prefer a company that supports a game with patches...
[21:51:00] <avenger> i play the game flawlessly
[21:51:06] <lynxlynxlynx> you :)
[21:51:12] <avenger> there are bugs back from bg1/bg2
[21:51:26] <avenger> nobody cared about them, but now suddenly it is everyone's business
[21:51:35] <avenger> and there are even features with camps on both sides
[21:51:49] <chiv> i am on the i like zooming camp
[21:51:52] <lynxlynxlynx> i think most grief was caused by it simply not working for many
[21:52:03] <lynxlynxlynx> possibly while the original does
[21:52:06] <avenger> i doubt that many was > 5%
[21:52:07] <avenger> really
[21:52:15] <lynxlynxlynx> intel chips are very common
[21:52:25] <avenger> intel chips without upgrade
[21:52:34] <chiv> it doesnt work at all on my netbook, which is the place i would want it really
[21:52:43] <avenger> hmm what chip you got?
[21:52:43] <fuzzie> are there really driver upgrades for the old intel stuff?
[21:53:23] <chiv> some intel...
[21:53:26] <fuzzie> I have some 945GM thing and I'd be kind of surprised to find a driver upgrade, given how idiotic Intel have been.
[21:53:33] <avenger> and what is your symptom?
[21:53:38] <chiv> slooooooooooooow
[21:53:43] <avenger> oh
[21:54:02] <chiv> but, not when standing still O_o
[21:54:11] <chiv> only when scrolling
[21:54:29] <lynxlynxlynx> more to redraw
[21:55:36] <avenger> i'm pretty sure it could be fixed somehow, with a different pixelformat, or something like that
[21:55:36] <chiv> i havent really investigated further, happy to wait for a patch :)
[21:56:31] <chiv> but I mean I got red alert 3 on this thing, bgee should be able to cope....
[21:56:40] <avenger> i read other reports where they say too much spell effects slow it down
[21:57:07] <avenger> that's so strange... this thing ran on machines now 10 years old :)
[21:57:23] <fuzzie> yeah, but those machines weren't trying to do gpu effects on intel cards.. :P
[21:57:35] <fuzzie> or, intel chips, I should say
[21:58:00] <wjp> soon BGEE will have a full menu of graphics workaround options too? :-)
[21:58:13] <chiv> i reckon if i remember right, recalculating the fog of war had the worst effect
[21:58:23] <avenger> yeah wjp i expect it will be repopulated with today's workarounds
[21:58:54] <wjp> hm, might as well update now I'm in Windows anyway
[21:59:13] <avenger> you might well see some changes i personally made :)
[21:59:27] <avenger> i think this is the first i had my hand in
[21:59:27] <wjp> :-)
[21:59:34] <chiv> write your name somewhere ultra secret :)
[21:59:41] <avenger> :P
[22:00:01] <wjp> looks like I'm getting the Dec 5 update
[22:00:17] <chiv> like in one of the books
[22:00:23] <chiv> no one will know
[22:00:44] <avenger> dec 5, hmm, maybe the next
[22:01:21] <avenger> if scroll of farsight works :)
[22:02:10] <avenger> scrlaj
[22:22:18] <lynxlynxlynx> avenger: oh, one more thing
[22:22:29] <lynxlynxlynx> can you make that tis/wed for me please? :P
[22:22:30] <avenger> ?
[22:22:43] <avenger> in gemrb?
[22:22:53] <avenger> or what
[22:22:53] <chiv> im curious here, is this a demo area?
[22:23:19] <lynxlynxlynx> i started working on one
[22:23:29] <lynxlynxlynx> avenger: i sent you a mail with the bmp attached
[22:23:36] <avenger> ah ok
[22:23:39] <lynxlynxlynx> remember the dltcep problems from a few days ago
[22:24:02] <lynxlynxlynx> chiv: i've just integrated your ammo patch, thanks
[22:24:08] <chiv> cool
[22:24:15] <lynxlynxlynx> and i also now see someone else is also interested in making a demo
[22:24:27] <avenger> where did you send that mail
[22:24:36] <avenger> my home address?
[22:24:37] <lynxlynxlynx> sf address
[22:24:54] <avenger> don't you know my direct address?
[22:24:58] <avenger> i don't think it reached me
[22:25:14] <lynxlynxlynx> i asked you to give one, but you either didn't see it or ignored it - i forgot the full toba one
[22:28:56] <lynxlynxlynx> should be on the way now
[22:29:10] <avenger> hmm, how big is it :)
[22:29:23] <avenger> because i'm not seeing anything
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[22:29:42] <avenger> hopefully you get some feedback
[22:30:41] <avenger> got something
[22:31:13] <avenger> do you expect me to do the wallkgrouping too?
[22:31:16] <avenger> i hope not :)
[22:31:31] <avenger> just a plain wed/tis, right?
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[22:32:45] <lynxlynxlynx> yes, that's enough for a start
[22:32:54] <lynxlynxlynx> i'll try to add the door and walls later
[22:33:32] <tompser> hello, gemrb is crashing with segfault for me just after gorion does some blue thing over my character right before we leave the first town
[22:33:34] <tompser> error is
[22:33:35] <tompser> Program received signal SIGSEGV, Segmentation fault.
[22:33:35] <tompser> GemRB::Sprite2D::GetPalette (this=0x0) at /gemrb/source/gemrb-0.7.2/gemrb/core/Sprite2D.cpp:84
[22:33:35] <tompser> 84 if (!vptr) return NULL;
[22:33:35] <tompser> (gdb) bt
[22:33:35] <tompser> #0 GemRB::Sprite2D::GetPalette (this=0x0)
[22:33:37] <tompser> at /gemrb/source/gemrb-0.7.2/gemrb/core/Sprite2D.cpp:84
[22:33:39] <tompser> #1 0x00007ffff7ad92ea in GemRB::CharAnimations::GetAnimation (this=0x4853ca0,
[22:33:41] <tompser> this@entry=<error reading variable: Cannot access memory at address 0x7fffffffc708>, Stance=<optimized out>,
[22:33:44] <tompser> Orient=<optimized out>) at /gemrb/source/gemrb-0.7.2/gemrb/core/CharAnimations.cpp:989
[22:34:05] <lynxlynxlynx> he heals you
[22:34:21] <lynxlynxlynx> very nice that you have a debug build
[22:34:26] <tompser> ok, doubt the healing is what crashes the game though :D
[22:34:43] <lynxlynxlynx> do you have any mods installed?
[22:34:48] <tompser> no
[22:34:54] <tompser> well, the expansion
[22:35:03] <lynxlynxlynx> ok, let me try to reproduce this
[22:35:45] <avenger> it is some character animation problem, that's seen :)
[22:36:18] <avenger> a print this would help probably
[22:36:50] <avenger> well, in #1
[22:36:57] <avenger> in #0 it is not much of a help :)
[22:37:29] <lynxlynxlynx> works here, gorion is dead
[22:37:39] <tompser> print this?
[22:37:53] <tompser> I'm rather novice with programming and gdb
[22:38:01] <avenger> lynx what he should type to go to frame #1
[22:38:01] <lynxlynxlynx> this is a pointer
[22:38:05] <lynxlynxlynx> f 1
[22:38:12] <lynxlynxlynx> but this is different there, so that's useless
[22:38:19] <avenger> then type 'print this'
[22:38:22] <lynxlynxlynx> we can see it in the dump
[22:38:32] <lynxlynxlynx> this=0x4853ca0
[22:38:33] <avenger> it would print all its content, no?
[22:38:41] <lynxlynxlynx> nah
[22:38:45] <avenger> hmm
[22:38:58] <avenger> i forgot a lot ;)
[22:39:07] <lynxlynxlynx> palette[PAL_MAIN] = a->GetFrame(0)->GetPalette()->Copy();
[22:39:15] <lynxlynxlynx> many things can go wrong here
[22:39:19] <lynxlynxlynx> tompser: print a
[22:39:26] <tompser> $1 = (GemRB::CharAnimations * const) 0x4853ca0
[22:39:30] <tompser> is the output of print this
[22:39:48] <tompser> $2 = (GemRB::Animation *) 0x48557b0
[22:39:50] <avenger> meh, how can one print all the members of it
[22:39:50] <tompser> from print a
[22:39:50] <lynxlynxlynx> tompser: print a->GetFrame(0) and so on
[22:40:00] <lynxlynxlynx> until you get something with a NULL (0x0)
[22:40:15] <lynxlynxlynx> avenger: one of the debug dump functions
[22:40:23] <lynxlynxlynx> not sure if these classes have them
[22:40:51] <tompser> print a->GetFrame(0) just prints that it can't get extended state value and that the process doesn't exist
[22:40:53] <avenger> i don't know what was your problem with the tis/wed
[22:41:05] <avenger> i send it back :D
[22:41:10] <lynxlynxlynx> i couldn't create a wed
[22:41:33] <lynxlynxlynx> always ended with a bad tis when overwriting it during day wed creation
[22:41:47] <tompser> would any hardware info be of any help?
[22:42:01] <lynxlynxlynx> only if it is exotic
[22:42:09] <tompser> no, nothing special
[22:43:05] <avenger> it was less than 10 seconds work :)
[22:43:36] <tompser> maybe I should install on another computer and see if I can get it running well
[22:43:46] <lynxlynxlynx> do you always get this crash?
[22:44:01] <tompser> on this computer I have
[22:44:08] <tompser> with 0.7.1 and .2
[22:44:12] <avenger> edit area/type in ar0100 in the wed field/edit wed/set overlay/load external tis/change filetype to .bmp/load bmp/set overlay/save tis/exit wed editor/save area
[22:44:34] <lynxlynxlynx> yep
[22:44:51] <lynxlynxlynx> tompser: just for kicks, try making a debug build of gemrb
[22:45:10] <lynxlynxlynx> we've had problems with buggy compiler optimisations in the past
[22:45:12] <tompser> another question though, I've never played through bg before, is gemrb stable enough to be enjoyable the whole game through or is it recommended to play original engine with wine to get the full experience?
[22:45:46] <tompser> how do I make a debug build when I use cmake?
[22:45:55] <lynxlynxlynx> the experience is still better in the original, but we're not far behind
[22:46:34] <lynxlynxlynx> remove the build dir and when you run cmake add -DCMAKE_BUILD_TYPE=Debug
[22:47:19] <avenger> i think combat is still somewhat rusty in gemrb
[22:47:30] <avenger> animation timings or something like that
[22:48:22] <lynxlynxlynx> and spawns
[22:48:42] <avenger> well, spawns are crappy in all engines :D
[22:48:44] <lynxlynxlynx> combat is not that bad, animation bugs mostly show in wrong speeds
[22:48:55] <avenger> too small, too much, always a problem
[22:49:10] <avenger> and unsupported avatar schemes
[22:51:01] <chiv> tompser: you can play the game quite well, you just might encounter unexpected stuff
[22:51:22] <tompser> doesn't sound like something to disturbing
[22:51:35] <chiv> save often, then you have something to roll back to if it goes wrong
[22:51:36] <tompser> since it's the first time playing through the whole game will be unexpected stuff :D
[22:51:40] <chiv> ah
[22:51:43] <lynxlynxlynx> the spawn problems make the game more challenging ;)
[22:52:05] <lynxlynxlynx> have you played other ie games?
[22:52:14] <tompser> no
[22:52:19] <tompser> just tried them out a little bit
[22:52:22] <lynxlynxlynx> play the original then
[22:52:38] <lynxlynxlynx> right now bg1 is hardcore when you're most vulnerable
[22:53:45] <chiv> gemrb is more fun when you have completed the game, because you have an idea of what should happen when it unexpectedly doesnt
[22:53:57] <chiv> *completed the original
[22:54:03] <tompser> ok
[22:54:15] <chiv> but you can definitely get through the game
[22:54:55] <tompser> what is it that makes it more hardcore with gemrb?
[22:55:28] <lynxlynxlynx> tougher spawns
[22:55:37] <tompser> ok
[22:55:51] <lynxlynxlynx> tactics style almost
[22:56:05] <lynxlynxlynx> gangs of dire wolves and ogrillons
[22:56:35] <tompser> I just think it's so amazing the fact that you guys are able to create a working engine for an existing game that that's one of the things that actually makes me wanna play it even more though :D
[22:56:45] <lynxlynxlynx> sure, we have some welcome enhancements, but for the first time, i'd really suggest you to use the original
[22:57:16] <lynxlynxlynx> like chiv said, also any bug reports will be much more useful if you have a clue what to expect
[22:57:29] <avenger> yeah, and it is a hell of an engine too. so complex with all the rules and exceptions on the rules, and exceptions on the exceptions
[22:57:41] <avenger> but we do this for 10 years now, and it seems it never ends
[22:58:09] <lynxlynxlynx> we are getting nearer and nearer though
[22:58:16] <lynxlynxlynx> most of the subsystems are in place
[22:58:41] <chiv> well, from an outside perspective, the way gemrb is now from how it was at first is astonishing
[22:58:42] <avenger> yes, probably that's why i'm not too motivated to do anything :)
[22:58:51] <lynxlynxlynx> but some nasty refactorings are waiting to happen and that's not so healthy so late
[22:58:54] <avenger> it is just bugfixing now
[22:59:12] <chiv> refactoring?
[22:59:22] <avenger> rewriting :D
[22:59:26] <lynxlynxlynx> like the animation system
[22:59:55] <lynxlynxlynx> avenger: "just" plus there are actually missing things, like the iwd2 spell stuff or pst messaging
[23:01:13] <tompser> print a with the debug build gives me this instead
[23:01:14] <tompser> Cannot access memory at address 0x7fffffffd170
[23:03:35] <lynxlynxlynx> do you have valgrind?
[23:03:45] <tompser> no clue on what it is
[23:04:32] <tompser> no I do not
[23:04:32] <avenger> if you scroll a bit up, don't you see something like xyz.bam [NOT FOUND] ?
[23:05:05] <tompser> [ResourceManager/ERROR]: Couldn't find 'wpLDDca.bam'.
[23:05:09] <avenger> yeah
[23:05:18] <avenger> i bet it is the problem
[23:05:44] <tompser> is it something with the way I extracted and placed the files from the cd?
[23:05:53] <avenger> could be
[23:05:55] <tompser> cause I kind of scratched my head a bit when I was doing it :D
[23:06:23] <avenger> hmm, wait you are on linux. Where are the game files?
[23:06:33] <avenger> case sensitive or insensitive filesystem :)
[23:07:18] <avenger> we got a flag, and it is likely turned on, but it could be off as well
[23:07:21] <tompser> the game files are togheter in a folder, extracted with unshield
[23:07:22] <tompser> lol
[23:07:25] <avenger> CaseSensitive = 1
[23:07:28] <tompser> I think I might have found the reason
[23:07:33] <avenger> cool
[23:07:34] <tompser> I had a data and Data folder
[23:07:35] <tompser> :P
[23:07:38] <avenger> yeah
[23:07:44] <avenger> THAT is a problem
[23:07:44] <tompser> gonna try getting them in the same
[23:07:50] <avenger> good idea :D
[23:08:12] <avenger> it might even fix the problem
[23:09:13] <avenger> i'm pretty sure our path resolver finds one way, it won't keep looking all possible solutions
[23:09:26] <tompser> now I'm seeing a lot of permission problems with the files and folders as well
[23:09:42] <avenger> well, give gemrb read perm
[23:10:15] <avenger> did you unshield with the same user?
[23:10:31] <tompser> yes
[23:10:54] <avenger> what exactly you see?
[23:17:05] <lynxlynxlynx> avenger: got it, thanks
[23:17:55] <avenger> see you later!
[23:17:58] <tompser> moved the Data/* files to data/ and made all files and folders readable
[23:18:02] <tompser> but still the same error
[23:18:07] <avenger> hmm
[23:18:17] <avenger> you still see the bam missing?
[23:18:28] <tompser> yes
[23:18:42] <tompser> as well as tracking.2da
[23:18:58] <avenger> that's missing too?
[23:19:03] <tompser> yes
[23:19:10] <avenger> ah ok, this is bg1, right?
[23:19:10] <lynxlynxlynx> that's irrelevant for bg1
[23:19:15] <lynxlynxlynx> :)
[23:19:26] <tompser> and some files with some weird encoding
[23:19:30] <lynxlynxlynx> make sure you do the same thing with Override
[23:19:35] <tompser> ?.dlg and ?.wav
[23:19:48] <lynxlynxlynx> don't worry about those
[23:20:18] <tompser> should I perhaps try to unshield each cd in a different folder?
[23:20:34] <tompser> right now I have all data in the same folder and all CD?= paths in the config pointed to the same
[23:20:55] <lynxlynxlynx> should be fine
[23:21:02] <avenger> wplddca doesn't exist
[23:21:10] <avenger> there are wpldd.. files but no ca
[23:21:19] <avenger> that is some weapon's casting animation
[23:21:57] <avenger> dagger
[23:22:37] <avenger> i wonder why we look for it
[23:22:53] <avenger> i don't think weapons are visible during casting
[23:22:55] <lynxlynxlynx> gorion has a dagger equipped, but this is silly
[23:24:07] <avenger> helmet has casting animation, but dagger has no such thing, even in tob
[23:24:19] <avenger> but i still think that is the problem, somehow
[23:24:40] <avenger> anyway, i gotta sleep
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[23:25:50] <tompser> since it's not reproducable, isn't it more likely that I've messed up with the CD extraction or some incompatibility with my current libs/kernel on my machine?
[23:29:10] <tompser> need some sleep to as well
[23:29:25] <lynxlynxlynx> the data is definitely missing everywhere, you're just the one that manages to request access to it
[23:29:39] <lynxlynxlynx> install valgrind tommorow and we can continue
[23:31:11] <tompser> won't be able tomorrow, I'll install valgrind and play around with cd extraction and copying from wine install later next week
[23:31:19] <tompser> I'll be back to report my progress :)
[23:31:28] <tompser> thanks for taking your time trying to figure this out
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