#gemrb@irc.freenode.net logs for 8 Mar 2013 (GMT)

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[03:15:49] <muriani> anyone have luck building on OSX 10.5.8 on PPC lately?
[03:16:57] <muriani> I get the "cannot find protocol declaration for ‘NSApplicationDelegate’" error in CocoaWrapper
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[03:38:52] <brada> muriani: you would need to make a minor adjustment to the code to compile under 10.5
[03:38:57] <brada> ppc is another matter tho
[03:39:15] <brada> not sure we are still compatible with BigEndian
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[03:40:35] <muriani> ah
[03:40:50] <muriani> I was able to build on linux a few months back without issue on ppc
[03:41:01] <muriani> ran fantastically.
[03:41:24] <muriani> was hoping to do the same here
[03:41:41] <muriani> Don't think it was 0.7.2, but still
[03:43:30] <brada> something is wrong with your environment it seems
[03:43:48] <brada> there is clearly a safegaurd in the code for NSApplicationDelegate
[03:44:04] <muriani> huh
[03:44:22] <brada> says #if __MAC_OS_X_VERSION_MIN_REQUIRED > 1050
[03:45:27] <muriani> and I'm definitely >10.5.0
[03:45:57] <muriani> I get this on source releases back to 0.6.6
[03:46:30] <brada> so needs to be bumped to 1058?
[03:47:20] <muriani> huh
[03:47:24] <muriani> would it..
[03:47:28] <muriani> oh.
[03:47:35] <muriani> ok I think I see.
[03:48:41] <brada> there that should fix it for you
[03:49:04] <muriani> tried to make again and got CocoaWrapper.m:146: error: syntax error before ‘__attribute__’
[03:49:12] <muriani> but I just did make clean and restarted the build
[03:49:20] <muriani> figure best to start again
[03:49:50] <muriani> Not accustomed to building in osx... things get weird.
[03:50:23] <brada> been a long time since somebody tried to build for such an old mac os
[03:51:11] <muriani> Not surprised.
[03:51:14] <brada> does the __unused macro not exist on 10.5.x?
[03:51:20] <brada> you can just remove that
[03:51:26] <muriani> I don't know, honestly
[03:51:40] <muriani> I'll give it a look
[03:52:01] <brada> yes that is your problem
[03:52:13] <muriani> that I don't know? :P
[03:52:22] <muriani> It's the source of a lot of issues :)
[03:52:27] <brada> well i mean it is defined in os x 10.5
[03:52:37] <brada> but it as __attribute in the definition
[03:52:46] <brada> so i assume that maybe is the problem
[03:54:06] <brada> unless you altered the source i dont know what else it could be
[03:54:13] <muriani> I haven't altered jack
[03:54:26] <muriani> other than the 1050 -> 1058
[03:54:42] <brada> yeah
[03:57:21] <brada> are you using cmake or xcode?
[03:57:24] <muriani> cmake
[03:57:35] <muriani> I have no clue how to use xcode, heh
[03:57:51] <muriani> cmake I'm slightly comfortable with.
[03:58:22] <muriani> sec, moving back to more recent code.
[03:58:48] <brada> well does the buildbot binary work?
[03:58:59] <muriani> I thought those were for intel only?
[03:59:05] <brada> oh probably
[03:59:13] <brada> i forget about the ppc thing
[03:59:34] <muriani> hehehe
[03:59:45] <brada> well im sure whatever work is needed is trivial
[04:01:11] <muriani> yeah... just not a coder. I've done little bits here and there, but most of my work's in the lowlier realms of perl and bash.
[04:01:27] <muriani> I'll see what I can come up with. Thanks for the pointers.
[04:12:40] <muriani> ooh, on 0.7.2 there are different errors
[04:12:51] <muriani> Still has the __attribute__ one
[04:13:30] <muriani> CocoaWrapper.mm:49: error: ‘MAXPATHLEN’ was not declared in this scop
[04:13:35] <muriani> *scope
[04:14:57] <muriani> Wouldn't be surprised if this just comes down to compiler finickiness.
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[04:30:38] <brada> muriani: there is no MAXPATHLENâ in that file
[04:31:09] <brada> bah]
[04:31:13] <brada> helps if i search for MAXPATHLEN
[04:31:45] <brada> you could just repleace that with a hardcoded value tho
[04:35:45] <muriani> k
[04:36:32] <muriani> still has the __attribute bit that I don't have a clue about where that definition comes from. I'll have to look at that sometime when my brain functions
[04:37:58] <muriani> meaning, when I'm bored at work tomorrow
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[04:52:59] <thomcom> @psch Yo, ran your APK, now running IWD
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[04:53:37] <thomcom> clearly not having widescreen mod, touches aren't registering to the right coordinate, and responsiveness is much less than desirable but it is up and running. It also loaded my save game.
[04:54:19] <thomcom> Yeah its rendering to native pixels but detecting my touches where click objects would be if they were scaled to fit my screen
[04:54:25] <thomcom> i'm sure you've already been over al this
[04:54:58] <thomcom> it isn't registering clicks on my map area so I can't try the BAD DOOR :D
[04:55:19] <thomcom> it also did not display the big fancy SDL loading/settings button that used to be displayed during android launch
[04:56:27] <thomcom> getting loads of logcat errors for CharAnimations and ResourceManager, couldn't find chmf3g1 and similar names.
[05:01:40] <thomcom> it also crashes hard on landscape changes
[05:01:42] <thomcom> lots of work to do :D
[05:05:44] <thomcom> also double clicks are required to register as singles
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[15:33:52] <rocket_hamster> IMG_Load formerly in SDL_image is missing from SDL2?
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[15:49:07] <muriani> Well, couldn't get 0.7.x to build on OSX ppc, but I was able to mangle CocoaWrapper.h in 0.6.6
[15:49:30] <muriani> ooooh and now we die on cocoawrapper.m in sdlvideo.
[15:49:37] <muriani> so close!
[15:50:51] <muriani> damn, it's that __unused/__attribute__ bit again.
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[16:02:54] <brada> muriani:what bits of the wrapper dont compile under 10.5?
[16:03:32] <brada> __unused macro?
[16:03:41] <muriani> yup
[16:03:47] <brada> what else?
[16:03:54] <muriani> I actually just took that out of CocoaWrapper.m... and it built
[16:04:03] <muriani> It's probably broken, but it didn't bitch when compiling!
[16:04:07] <brada> with 0.7.x?
[16:04:10] <muriani> oh, no
[16:04:16] <muriani> this is 0.6.6
[16:04:25] <muriani> but yes
[16:04:30] <muriani> also with 0.7.x
[16:04:37] <muriani> I haven't tried again with that
[16:05:15] <muriani> I'm patching with a large blunt object >_<
[16:06:14] <muriani> I need some data to test with now. Neglected to copy BG over last night.
[16:08:02] <brada> you will want to use 0.7.2 or nothing really
[16:08:41] <muriani> hmm
[16:09:01] <muriani> alright, back to bashing that then
[16:09:39] <brada> we will be happy to patch the code to get it to work but you just need to tell us what is broken
[16:10:00] <muriani> alright.
[16:10:38] <brada> what compiler and version btw?
[16:11:16] <brada> gcc 4.0?
[16:11:39] <muriani> 4.0.1 I think
[16:12:08] <muriani> I think that's the latest that xcode3 uses?
[16:12:17] <brada> dont know
[16:12:25] <brada> now way to upgrade to 4.2?
[16:12:28] <muriani> It was a pain getting even that for macports >_<
[16:12:47] <muriani> I can see if it's in macports maybe
[16:13:46] <brada> __unused came about in 4.2 it seems
[16:13:59] <muriani> aaah
[16:14:02] <muriani> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9MiMjQwd2VE
[16:14:03] <muriani> er
[16:14:04] <Seniorita> Shadowrun Returns First Look - Alpha Gameplay Footage - YouTube
[16:14:10] <brada> but we can maybe do some ifdefing
[16:14:22] <muriani> damnit, forgot that ARD doesn't do clipboard sync
[16:14:46] <muriani> http://pastebin.com/WjVh8bnN
[16:14:50] <muriani> that's what I'm getting
[16:14:52] <Seniorita> /Users/james/Downloads/gemrb-0.7.2/gemrb/includes/CocoaWrapper.h:33:2: warning: - Pastebin.com
[16:15:03] <muriani> I'll look into 4.2
[16:15:24] <brada> wow what old version of ARD are you using?
[16:16:03] <muriani> 3.6.1
[16:16:24] * rocket_hamster jumps out of window
[16:16:28] <brada> it does do clipboard sync
[16:16:30] <rocket_hamster> can i still buy shadowrun?
[16:16:33] <muriani> although the machine I'm connected to is older
[16:16:43] <muriani> rocket_hamster: when it's out, you can
[16:16:47] <rocket_hamster> damn!
[16:17:01] <muriani> unless you're talking about the tabletop, in wich case you sure can :)
[16:17:07] <muriani> although there's SR5 coming soon.
[16:17:38] <muriani> brada: it looks like I can get all the way up to gcc4.7.2 from macports.
[16:17:46] <brada> neat
[16:17:56] <brada> lets see what that does for you
[16:18:08] <muriani> go up to the top?
[16:18:18] <muriani> or is there an interim release that might be better?
[16:18:25] <muriani> I heard there's issues with 4.3
[16:18:25] <brada> 4.2 at least
[16:18:38] <muriani> k
[16:18:44] <muriani> Well, this is gonna take awhile :P
[16:19:26] <muriani> nope
[16:19:30] <muriani> Not supported on leopard.
[16:19:37] <brada> bah
[16:19:38] <muriani> *sign*
[16:19:48] <muriani> s/n/h
[16:20:14] <brada> well
[16:20:27] <brada> there is an option to comiple without the wrapper
[16:20:39] <muriani> and that just gives it to me via X?
[16:20:47] <brada> you will need to use terminal to launc it
[16:20:55] <brada> no you dont need x
[16:20:58] <muriani> Oh
[16:21:18] <muriani> That's perfectly acceptable, imo.
[16:21:40] <brada> are you proficient with git?
[16:21:57] <muriani> I can git clone, once I get git installed
[16:22:13] <muriani> its' not in macports, so I gotta find it somewhere else and hope it's built universal
[16:22:15] <brada> i mean you would need to look at the history of GemRB.cpp
[16:22:21] <muriani> oh
[16:22:28] <muriani> not that proficient with it, no
[16:22:51] <brada> well iirc its a little blcok of code you would need to put at the top
[16:23:02] <brada> then just take out the cocoa bits from cmake files
[16:23:10] <muriani> ah
[16:23:11] <muriani> hm
[16:23:32] <brada> the block is bacically inclue SDL/SDL.h
[16:24:40] <brada> in the same manar as android
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[16:31:10] <muriani> alrighty, found a universal build of git (old), let's see if I can do this.
[16:31:36] <brada> you dont *need* git
[16:31:46] <muriani> oh?
[16:32:00] <brada> if you dont know how to use it ther isnt much of a point
[16:32:13] <muriani> well, I can learn.
[16:32:19] <brada> im sure you can
[16:32:23] <brada> i am a poor teacher
[16:32:33] <muriani> That's pretty much how I learn. I need to do something, so I research and figure out how to do it.
[16:34:18] <muriani> You've helped immensely already. I'll try to figure out what I can with what you've told me regarding turning off the cocoa wrapper.
[16:35:02] <brada> the cmake manipulation would be hardest
[16:35:13] <brada> can you build with the autotools?
[16:35:18] <brada> i wonder
[16:35:25] <muriani> Haven't tried. Possibly.
[16:35:45] <brada> i know that wont try to build an app bundle like cmake does
[16:35:48] <muriani> I just saw cmake there, and saw that most build instructions used it, so went with that.
[16:36:12] <muriani> gah, git timed out. stupid firewall. Time to tether the phone.
[16:37:04] <muriani> which kills my use of ARD, but whatever.
[16:37:58] <brada> what is the macro to test if compiler is gcc?
[16:38:19] <brada> GCC_FLAG?
[16:38:33] <brada> #if defined(__GCC__)
[16:38:34] <brada> ?
[16:40:58] <muriani> looking
[16:41:26] <muriani> #if defined(__GNUC__), looks like
[16:42:33] <brada> well for some reason that is true for clang :/
[16:42:38] <muriani> that's not in the cmake files, that's in logging.h and stringbuffer.h
[16:42:47] <muriani> and their associated cpp files
[16:43:22] <muriani> I don't see GCC_FLAG used anywhere
[16:44:13] <muriani> there's GCC_VERSION in the xcodeproj
[16:44:18] <brada> so do you have a git clone of gemrb now?
[16:44:29] <brada> i think i found something
[16:44:32] <brada> that will work
[16:44:57] <muriani> I should, it's running in background
[16:45:08] <muriani> ah, yes I do.
[16:46:32] <brada> try pulling and building again
[16:47:56] <muriani> ok, pulling
[16:48:07] <muriani> do I still use cmake to build?
[16:48:08] <brada> provided my macros are correct
[16:48:19] <brada> i should have fixed the build errors associated with __unused
[16:51:37] <muriani> unrecognized command line option "-Wno-error=cast-align"
[16:53:19] <brada> so remove it
[16:57:10] <muriani> ok, going
[17:00:34] <muriani> http://pastebin.com/2eiCU7aQ
[17:00:39] <Seniorita> /Users/james/gemrb/gemrb/core/CharAnimations.cpp: In member function ‘void Gem - Pastebin.com
[17:01:20] <brada> this with cmake?
[17:01:24] <muriani> which is odd, because it normally gets much further past this, at least in 0.7.2
[17:01:26] <muriani> yeah
[17:01:53] <brada> isnt "protocol declaration" an objective c error?
[17:02:04] <muriani> I should try autotools?
[17:02:19] <brada> sure
[17:08:28] <muriani> re-pulling from git to make sure it's clean, autoconf/reconf is failing with AM_CONFIG_HEADER obsolete macro
[17:10:46] <muriani> ah I'm doing something wrong for sure.
[17:11:27] <muriani> hey, I need libtool, look at that.
[17:15:15] <muriani> ah, still doesn't work.
[17:21:47] <brada> this is all i added: http://gemrb.git.sourceforge.net/git/gitweb.cgi?p=gemrb/gemrb;a=commitdiff;h=349b322d5d3232e3bc8f144858379d8a61140522
[17:21:49] <Seniorita> SourceForge - gemrb/gemrb/commitdiff
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[17:26:09] <muriani> Applied to 0.7.2. Running make now.
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[17:29:03] <brada> i just pushed another update to remove some useless code
[17:29:11] <brada> should fix the MAXPATH thingy
[17:29:21] <muriani> oh yeah, I forgot about that, hah
[17:33:34] <muriani> I still get the error from my last pastebin when building from git
[17:39:16] <brada> i dont know what to tell you
[17:39:27] <brada> i posted my change
[17:39:29] <muriani> yeah
[17:39:39] <brada> you are of course cleaning...
[17:40:09] <muriani> there's another change between git and the tarball on sourceforge, because this error is unrelated to the others it seems
[17:40:39] <muriani> I've got 0.7.2 building again with your recent git changes
[17:42:11] <kingron> anyone tried PST with the widescreen mod and ghostdog's ui ?
[17:42:21] <brada> muriani: how did you do it?
[17:43:00] <muriani> brada: I copied the files you changed from the git tree I pulled into the extracted 0.7.2 tarball.
[17:43:43] <brada> where did you get that tarball?
[17:44:03] <muriani> sourceforge
[17:44:13] <muriani> as of earlier this morning
[17:44:32] <lynxlynxlynx> kingron: ask chiv if he comes around, he was the last person known to have played it extensively recently
[17:45:02] <brada> anyway good that it compiles
[17:45:07] <brada> does it run tho :p
[17:45:13] <muriani> hehehe
[17:45:15] <muriani> we'll see
[17:45:35] <muriani> It still bitches about the __unused in CocoaWrapper.mm, so I added the #undef and #defines in it directly
[17:45:50] <brada> even with my macro?
[17:46:10] <muriani> yeah, it seems to help some earlier errors with it
[17:46:58] <muriani> anyhoo, about to test
[17:47:22] <kingron> lynxlynxlynx: thx
[17:48:27] <muriani> well that didn't work :P
[17:49:07] <muriani> failing to open gemrb.cfg. That makes sense
[17:49:46] <brada> yeah
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[18:01:52] <muriani> now getting "unable to create cache directory ./gemrb/Cache
[18:02:07] <brada> set your own cache dir in the cfg
[18:02:18] <brada> make sure it is an empty dir
[18:02:18] <muriani> oh. Derp.
[18:05:20] <muriani> ok it's all setting up configs from here I guess before I really know anything
[18:05:26] <muriani> thanks again
[18:05:54] <brada> yup
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[18:59:45] <fizzle> hm, we seem to forget to hand out layonhands to paladins
[19:00:28] <fizzle> bg2 CharGenEnd claims it's "set by the core"
[19:01:06] <fizzle> maybe it's just talking about LAYONHANDSAMOUNT?
[19:22:44] <lynxlynxlynx> they don't have a clab for it?
[19:22:55] <fizzle> a what?
[19:23:04] <lynxlynxlynx> clabpa01.2da for example
[19:23:07] <lynxlynxlynx> class ability
[19:23:30] <fizzle> there is no such thing in bg1 that I can see
[19:25:10] <lynxlynxlynx> meh, then you're right
[19:25:34] <lynxlynxlynx> i see it has likely none, as we don't have a column for in classes/clskills
[19:26:42] <lynxlynxlynx> bbl
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[19:41:29] <fizzle> the various mage "kits" also seem to start without spells; I guess that's a bug, too?
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[21:43:12] <fizzle> anybody here who can try a few things in bg1 original engine?
[21:44:59] <Maighstir> perhaps
[21:45:07] <Maighstir> what do you want to know?
[21:45:30] <fizzle> I'd like to know which innates and spells the different classes get in the beginning in bg1
[21:45:59] <fizzle> bonus points for things that come with level-ups (shape-changing?)
[22:03:14] <lynxlynxlynx> hmm
[22:03:39] <Maighstir> I'm not quite sure if it matters how much int and wis the characters have, but here's some for both at 18
[22:03:41] <Maighstir> Fighter: (N/A) Ranger (Innate): Charm Animal Paladin (Innate): Lay On Hands, Detect Evil, Protection From Evil Cleric (spell): Bless, Command, Cure Light Wounds, Detect Evil, Entangle, Magical Stone, Protection From Evil, Remove Fear, Sanctuary, Shillelagh Druid (Spell): Bless, Cure Light Wounds, Detect Evil, Entangle, Remove Fear, Shillelagh Mage (Spell): (choose 2) Grease, Armor, Burning Hands, Charm Person, Color Spray, Blindness, Friends, Identify, I
[22:03:45] <Maighstir> bah
[22:03:55] <lynxlynxlynx> lay on hands is probably the only one - if there is any
[22:04:16] <lynxlynxlynx> is that for bg2?
[22:04:22] <Maighstir> Ranger (Innate): Charm Animal
[22:04:23] <Maighstir> bg1
[22:04:29] <Maighstir> Paladin (Innate): Lay On Hands, Detect Evil, Protection From Evil
[22:04:34] <Maighstir> Cleric (spell): Bless, Command, Cure Light Wounds, Detect Evil, Entangle, Magical Stone, Protection From Evil, Remove Fear, Sanctuary, Shillelagh
[22:04:40] <Maighstir> Druid (Spell): Bless, Cure Light Wounds, Detect Evil, Entangle, Remove Fear, Shillelagh
[22:04:44] <fizzle> lynx: the manual also mentions detect evil and prot from evil
[22:04:46] <Maighstir> Mage (Spell): (choose 2) Grease, Armor, Burning Hands, Charm Person, Color Spray, Blindness, Friends, Identify, Infravision, Magic Missile, Protection From Evil, Shield, Shocking Grasp, Sleep, Chill Touch, Chromatic Orb, Larloch's Minor Drain
[22:05:07] <lynxlynxlynx> powerful starter then
[22:05:31] <fizzle> Maighstir: I really only need innates ans known spells for the special mage kits
[22:05:43] <Maighstir> right
[22:05:50] <lynxlynxlynx> mages don't start with known spells
[22:05:51] <fizzle> so no priest spells and the like
[22:06:06] <lynxlynxlynx> the list you choose from is all-of-them
[22:06:17] <fizzle> the non-kit version yes
[22:06:19] <lynxlynxlynx> for specialists the excluded schools are of course disabled
[22:06:29] <fizzle> but the kit versions currently start out empty in gemrb
[22:06:59] <fizzle> so you should get to choose a spell for those as well?
[22:07:10] <lynxlynxlynx> sure
[22:07:23] <lynxlynxlynx> bg2 also has nice button states for this, but not bg1
[22:07:31] <fizzle> hm, okay
[22:08:00] <fizzle> Maighstir: thanks, I guess druids and rangers should be all then
[22:08:12] <fizzle> and paladin
[22:08:59] <fizzle> does a druid get all three shapeshifting spells on level 7, anybody know?
[22:09:14] <Maighstir> normal mages get to choose two spells and memorise one of those, specialists get to choose three and memorise two
[22:09:46] <lynxlynxlynx> i think the shapeshifting is unique to jaheira
[22:10:12] <fizzle> not according to the manual
[22:11:58] <lynxlynxlynx> the manuals are not something to rely on
[22:12:10] <lynxlynxlynx> try to find a video if you can't try it in the original
[22:13:53] <fizzle> nobody's playing druids :P
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[22:22:49] <Maighstir> Shapeshift: Brown Bear, Wolf, and Black Bear, all at lv7
[22:25:32] <Maighstir> Just checked by giving my testing druid enough xp for one level at a time
[22:27:30] <fizzle> cool, thanks a lot
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[22:47:40] <lynxlynxlynx> i suggest you just implement them as clabs, since we have everything in place
[22:47:50] <fizzle> almost, yes
[22:47:56] <lynxlynxlynx> then there's no hardcoding needed, plus people can mod it
[22:48:00] <fizzle> I'm just about committing it
[22:48:10] <lynxlynxlynx> what's the difference?
[22:48:33] <fizzle> no difference, just not quite everything in place yet
[22:49:03] <fizzle> ie., bg1 didn't process clabs even if they were there
[22:49:56] <lynxlynxlynx> gemrb/unhardcoded/bg2/clskills.2da vs bg1 - no abilities column
[22:50:26] <lynxlynxlynx> and you have to create the innates if they don't exist yet
[22:50:26] <fizzle> yes, but even if that column existed it wouldn't be used
[22:50:57] <lynxlynxlynx> yeah, probably gametyped out
[22:51:05] <fizzle> but as I said, the changes will be landing any minute
[22:52:47] <lynxlynxlynx> i've just realised i have another hardcoded poopoo to mention afterwards
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[22:53:11] <lynxlynxlynx> perfect for your detailed annoyance
[22:53:38] <fizzle> is that supposed to be a compliment? ;)
[22:53:51] <lynxlynxlynx> and affects all games but iwd2 (did it right finally) and maybe pst (wierd as usual)
[22:53:56] <lynxlynxlynx> ;)
[22:58:56] <fizzle> eh, spell selection doesn't work at all
[23:03:59] <fizzle> when should spells be selected?
[23:04:07] <fizzle> after the class selection screen?
[23:04:19] <Maighstir> on the skills screen
[23:05:34] <fizzle> before or after?
[23:05:36] <Maighstir> right after the weapon proficiencies
[23:07:22] <lynxlynxlynx> in chargen? it worked when i added it
[23:07:44] <fizzle> well, it doesn't work right now
[23:10:20] <lynxlynxlynx> your change looks odd
[23:10:30] <lynxlynxlynx> you removed the xp column from the table for example
[23:10:55] <lynxlynxlynx> adding the new one in the middle should be fine, i think i converted all the uses to be name based
[23:11:28] <lynxlynxlynx> the bit in setAccept looks familiar - is it not done in levelup code already? sharing candidate anyway
[23:11:50] <fizzle> no, but it's a straight copy from the bg2 code
[23:12:55] <lynxlynxlynx> btw, for adding columns: admin/extend2da.py makes it trivial
[23:13:23] <fizzle> you said so last time
[23:13:53] <fizzle> but by the time I have figured out how that works I've told vi to do that ten times over :)
[23:17:15] <lynxlynxlynx> it's even documented :P
[23:17:33] <lynxlynxlynx> anyway, you deleted a column and that's bad
[23:17:51] <fizzle> that column's unused
[23:18:55] <lynxlynxlynx> is that a good thing?
[23:19:10] <fizzle> there's no starting xp in bg1
[23:19:23] <lynxlynxlynx> i know that
[23:19:42] <fizzle> it's probably a leftover from copying the bg2 data
[23:19:52] <lynxlynxlynx> the values are from bg2
[23:20:10] <lynxlynxlynx> to play totsc, you have to always start from the start or use that one savegame?
[23:20:43] <fizzle> no, you can start totsc right in the middle
[23:21:00] <fizzle> but it works differntly from SoA and ToB
[23:21:08] <fizzle> they aren't separate
[23:21:26] <fizzle> it's just two more locations that pop up on your world map
[23:21:44] <lynxlynxlynx> yeah, like wk
[23:22:03] <lynxlynxlynx> you'd get destroyed with a low level party
[23:22:33] <fizzle> yes, I don't think you're supposed to start off with Durlag's Tower...
[23:22:38] <lynxlynxlynx> anyway, i was getting at that some people may want to start at nonzero xp
[23:23:11] <lynxlynxlynx> but more importantly, it is easier to make mods that work for both bg1 and bg2 if the tables have matching layouts
[23:24:19] <fizzle> well, be my guest, but the tables don't match anyway
[23:26:53] <lynxlynxlynx> they almost do
[23:27:31] <lynxlynxlynx> it still confuses me how our core seems to handle class assignment so well
[23:27:57] <lynxlynxlynx> soo fragile
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