#gemrb@irc.freenode.net logs for 9 Jul 2010 (GMT)

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[07:59:36] <Edheldil> lynxlynxlynx: pst is the only one I try :)
[08:00:53] <lynxlynxlynx> rarely :P
[08:13:18] <fuzzie> you should complain about it more :)
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[15:54:59] <Avenger> hi
[15:55:15] <Avenger> why do we have REST/HOURS and PST_REST/HOURS ?
[15:57:31] <fuzzie> hmm
[15:58:00] <Avenger> in strings.2da
[15:58:30] <Avenger> they seem to be used exclusively, so they could be the same entries
[15:59:31] <fuzzie> well, there's some issue with different tokens
[16:00:26] <fuzzie> but the code doesn't make much sense to me, even given the fact we could just account for differences with a feature flag
[16:01:10] <Avenger> hmm, i see
[16:01:35] <Avenger> so both strings are referenced in the same code, and it selects based on which string is not -1
[16:02:20] <Avenger> well, i guess as long as we don't have cases where both are used, it is nicer to have a flag
[16:02:40] <fuzzie> from irc logs, mattinm said the pst codepath is unfinished, someone else would have to work it out
[16:02:42] <Avenger> i'm looking at where is this code...
[16:03:17] <fuzzie> it is Game.cpp, RestParty
[16:03:40] <fuzzie> but it makes no sense, so it is surely unfinished, maybe the strings.2da is unfinished too
[16:03:41] <Avenger> to be honest, in Game.cpp it would be easier if both strings are referenced by the same entry
[16:04:47] <fuzzie> yes, as it is, i don't see why you can't just use the same string ref and then just move the SetAtCopy in the dictionary down a bit
[16:06:00] <fuzzie> there is nothing in the irc log which makes sense, mattinm had to ask lynx for the pst strrefs, so i guess it is simply a "TODO"
[16:12:15] <Avenger> yes, i will mark it with a fixme in the code
[16:13:52] <Avenger> woo, i heard the verbal constants in iwd for the first time
[16:14:07] <fuzzie> :)
[16:17:56] <Avenger> npcs with no soundset, but no 2da/ini (like bg2 joinable npcs) may still be wrong, judging by looking at the code
[16:18:14] <Avenger> i thought it was already written, i wonder where it went
[16:18:23] <Avenger> or maybe i just looked in the wrong place
[16:20:56] <fuzzie> so
[16:21:13] <fuzzie> does this mean we can map things like the bg1 soundsets?
[16:21:20] <CIA-23> GemRB: 03avenger_teambg * r256be357c94d 10gemrb/gemrb/ (11 files in 10 dirs):
[16:21:20] <CIA-23> GemRB: adding the 'your characters have been exported' string to ExportParty
[16:21:20] <CIA-23> GemRB: changed verbal constant access to be centralized via the mapping
[16:22:26] <Avenger> is PlayBardSong a blocking action.... hmm hmm, who knows
[16:22:46] <Avenger> i guess AF_ALIVE is trivial
[16:23:57] <fuzzie> oh, this only remaps strings
[16:25:13] <CIA-23> GemRB: 03avenger_teambg * rd7e20b94bab3 10gemrb/gemrb/core/GameScript/ (Actions.cpp GameScript.cpp): added missing reference to PlayBardSong
[16:25:36] <Avenger> hmm
[16:25:39] <fuzzie> so i still have no idea how this works, i guess
[16:26:25] <Avenger> the worst would be if i don't know it either
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[16:26:53] <fuzzie> i keep wanting to make the monks work, at the start of bg1
[16:27:18] <fuzzie> they have the 'idle sound's in their soundset
[16:27:44] <Avenger> we talk about resolvestringconstant now
[16:27:57] <fuzzie> yes
[16:28:08] <Avenger> i guess, it should probably do the mapping via vcremap too
[16:28:10] <fuzzie> 'verbal constant' is such a silly name for a string ref, so it confuses me :)
[16:28:46] <Avenger> yeah, it is not my invention
[16:29:52] <Avenger> though resolvestringconstant is mine, and it has nothing to do with strings
[16:30:10] <Avenger> it is the soundset based sound, not the verbal constant based sound
[16:30:50] <Avenger> feel free to change that name
[16:32:20] <Avenger> I still need to implement OnIsland trigger
[16:32:37] <fuzzie> some area check?
[16:33:16] <Avenger> yes, but it could be extremely complicated
[16:33:35] <Avenger> if it is just a set of area resources, then i will change that to a 2da based check
[16:33:54] <Avenger> and InWatchersKeep will be a synonym of it
[16:34:51] <fuzzie> so, do we do any soundset stuff right now?
[16:35:11] <Avenger> what do you mean
[16:35:41] <fuzzie> i'm just wondering how this works
[16:35:56] <fuzzie> when you select an actor, it does DisplayStringCore with VB_SELECT
[16:36:02] <Avenger> yes
[16:36:27] <Avenger> with DS_CONST
[16:36:29] <fuzzie> and this does this GetVerbalConstant stuff
[16:36:45] <Avenger> yes
[16:36:47] <fuzzie> and this MC_EXPORTABLE stuff is for iwd's SoundFolders?
[16:37:06] <Avenger> no, it is to check if the guy is a player character
[16:37:37] <fuzzie> so why don't we call ResolveStringConstant for non-players?
[16:37:52] <Avenger> hmm, actually this part seems weird
[16:38:14] <fuzzie> i thought GetSoundFromINI/2DA was for more than players
[16:39:04] <Avenger> yes, if it gets sound from ini/2da it won't go there
[16:39:22] <fuzzie> well, that code is inside ResolveStringConstant
[16:40:28] <Avenger> err wait, the top priority is the string constants in the character, except if they are exportable player characters. (basically this is the case in joinable pcs)
[16:40:38] <fuzzie> sure
[16:40:54] <Avenger> actor->GetVerbalConstant(Strref); is getting the proper string from aerie, for example
[16:40:55] <fuzzie> ohi see
[16:40:58] <Avenger> it won't go deeper
[16:41:02] <fuzzie> this '<= 0' thing is actually a -1 check?
[16:41:18] <Avenger> yes, but in some cases 0 is also invalid
[16:41:26] <Avenger> so, it is a -1 or 0 check
[16:41:32] <Avenger> supposed to be
[16:41:32] <fuzzie> ok.
[16:42:20] <fuzzie> and if i want to make INITIAL_MEETING work, i add some VB_INITIAL_MEETING as 0 and just call this?
[16:42:21] <Avenger> so, that exportable thing is overriding the verbal constants with the soundset
[16:42:35] <Avenger> yes, that should work
[16:42:45] <Avenger> if you know the place of initial meeting
[16:43:04] <fuzzie> i don't :-) but i thought, it is a good example
[16:43:06] <Avenger> you just add the line of displaystringcore(actor, VB_INITIAL_MEETING, DS_CONST)
[16:43:40] <Avenger> actually, i encourage you or lynx to find the spots of those thingies
[16:43:50] <Avenger> maybe we could even add the select_rare stuff
[16:43:52] <fuzzie> and so, vcremap.2da is ideal
[16:43:55] <Avenger> maybe partially in guiscript
[16:44:09] <Avenger> yes, but as you noticed, it is not used everywhere
[16:44:41] <fuzzie> i think the INITIAL_MEETING is simply when a character first comes on-screen
[16:44:51] <fuzzie> but i don't know where the flag for that would be saved, i didn't look
[16:45:12] <Avenger> hmm ResolveStringConstant probably doesn't require any mapping
[16:45:21] <Avenger> because it is not using the sound slots
[16:45:26] <Avenger> it is using resource suffixes
[16:45:28] <Avenger> from csound
[16:45:45] <Avenger> or ini/2da keys
[16:45:53] <Avenger> so it is not verbal constant slots
[16:46:12] <Avenger> vcremap is for verbal constant slots, csound is for the resource suffix mapping
[16:46:39] <Avenger> i honestly don't know why bioware/blackisle did these things so diversely
[16:47:09] <fuzzie> oh, i hate blackisle some more now
[16:47:15] <Avenger> hehe
[16:47:23] <fuzzie> the multiclass flags are different
[16:47:38] <Avenger> yes, that is truly a hate fuel for me too
[16:48:09] <Avenger> sometimes i just feel like dropping iwd2 support :)
[16:48:24] <Avenger> and pst too, but i know you like pst
[16:48:39] <Avenger> pst projectiles will make you hate them, though
[16:48:45] <fuzzie> gemrb, ideal for playing bg2? :)
[16:49:04] <Avenger> yes, probably bg2 is the cleanest stuff
[16:49:14] <fuzzie> i seem to remember liking some parts of iwd2, too
[16:49:33] <Avenger> it standardized almost all projectiles
[16:50:16] <Avenger> 3rd edition of iwd2 is already a big mess, if you want to support the liberal class level selection
[16:51:18] <Avenger> i didn't like iwd2, it feels unbalanced on higher levels. I virtually got no xp for totally lethal combat
[16:51:57] <Avenger> maybe i didn't use the best skill path, but i never managed the second part of the final battle :)
[16:52:13] <fuzzie> well, like i said, i got as far as the warehouse so far :)
[16:52:47] <Avenger> it is fun first
[16:53:30] <Avenger> ok, back to soundsets and verbal constants? do you understand it now? or you still see problems?
[16:54:14] <fuzzie> well, i'm not quite sure how it works
[16:54:35] <Avenger> well, lets pick cases, and follow the code path
[16:54:46] <fuzzie> if i want to implement some slot which is different in different engines, there is really no need to remap for suffixes or ini/2da keys?
[16:55:02] <Avenger> depends on which slot is it
[16:55:18] <Avenger> some slots are used by ini/2da and csound
[16:55:26] <Avenger> like attack/get hit
[16:55:35] <Avenger> those are in every monster/pc/joinable pc
[16:56:04] <fuzzie> and they don't differ between the engines?
[16:56:19] <Avenger> well, they sometimes differ very much
[16:56:39] <Avenger> so much that they are either in 2da or ini :)
[16:56:49] <fuzzie> but the slot numbers, i mean :)
[16:56:54] <Avenger> 2da is the bg1/2 format
[16:57:08] <Avenger> the slot numbers are only for verbal constants
[16:57:27] <Avenger> lets pick initial_meeting?
[16:57:34] <Avenger> i guess, it is 0 in all games, no?
[16:57:48] <Avenger> so, maybe lets pick something else
[16:57:53] <fuzzie> 69
[16:58:12] <fuzzie> PICKED_POCKET in bg2, IDLE_1 in bg1?
[16:58:45] <Avenger> ok, so we go by PICKED_POCKET
[16:58:47] <fuzzie> so i guess i have to use something else for VB_IDLE_1
[16:58:58] <fuzzie> and then map that to 69 in vcremap.2da
[16:59:00] <Avenger> err, ok, lets try the idle
[16:59:19] <Avenger> yes, what is IDLE_1 is bg2
[16:59:20] <fuzzie> otherwise, if i play 69, then we get the PICKED_POCKET character sound for NPCs.
[16:59:28] <fuzzie> there are no idle sounds in bg2
[16:59:41] <Avenger> huh?
[17:00:06] <fuzzie> these are NPC idle sounds, not PC
[17:00:17] <Avenger> there is 'bored'
[17:00:22] <fuzzie> bg1 is full of them, bg2 has none
[17:00:22] <Avenger> 8
[17:00:27] <fuzzie> BORED is for PC
[17:01:15] <Avenger> hmm, all verbal constants are for pc, no?
[17:01:22] <fuzzie> well
[17:01:24] <Avenger> or bg1 uses them for monsters?
[17:01:27] <fuzzie> how do i play soundset entries for monsters?
[17:01:39] <fuzzie> that is all i really care about :)
[17:01:53] <Avenger> ok, lets pick a monster
[17:01:56] <fuzzie> maybe they have to be seperate
[17:02:15] <Avenger> which monster in bg1 has idle sound
[17:02:43] <fuzzie> about 20% of them :P
[17:02:58] <fuzzie> those monks at the beginning are the usual example
[17:03:11] <Avenger> i picked a cat
[17:03:33] <Avenger> ok, this is truly verbal constant stuff
[17:03:55] <fuzzie> voisou.cre is a monk i think
[17:04:24] <Avenger> bg1 cat uses vc, bg2 cat uses mcat.2da
[17:04:32] <fuzzie> but it is a 'big thing' for gemrb
[17:04:45] <Avenger> so, we need vc slots for bg1 idle sounds now
[17:04:47] <fuzzie> because bg tutu etc just destroy these sounds
[17:05:37] <fuzzie> so i thought: can we simply make VB_IDLE_1 with some really high number
[17:05:42] <Avenger> i think it is the existance slots
[17:05:45] <Avenger> 70
[17:05:47] <fuzzie> so it will fail for other games, but then map it with vcremap.2da for bg1?
[17:06:02] <Avenger> 70,71,72,73,74 (74 is also biography)
[17:06:17] <Avenger> i read about this somewhere
[17:06:34] <fuzzie> well, my notes say it starts with 69, i think
[17:06:47] <fuzzie> but something like that
[17:07:55] <Avenger> 69 is in bg1
[17:08:01] <Avenger> 70 in bg2, no?
[17:08:03] <fuzzie> hm
[17:08:13] <fuzzie> so these are different for monsters and PCs?
[17:08:37] <fuzzie> i thought those slots were used for PCs in bg2
[17:08:51] <fuzzie> i remember that the 2da/ids files with the games aren't reliable though
[17:08:51] <Avenger> the existance slots are for idling
[17:09:19] <fuzzie> but iesdp's list says 70 is HIDDEN_IN_SHADOWS, 71 is SPELL_DISRUPTED, etc
[17:09:41] <Avenger> but you hear them in the game
[17:10:04] <Avenger> ever tried the pocket plane with npcs summoned but not in party?
[17:10:15] <Avenger> they always say those things
[17:10:17] <fuzzie> well, they are NPCs :)
[17:10:30] <fuzzie> so iesdp is wrong?
[17:10:45] <Avenger> no
[17:11:02] <Avenger> i think when they are idle, they say those
[17:11:35] <fuzzie> so when is 70 EXISTANCE_1 and when is 70 HIDDEN_IN_SHADOWS?
[17:12:53] <Avenger> it is existance_1 when idling, and it is hidden_in_shadows when you manage to hide
[17:12:59] <Avenger> it is the same sound, though
[17:14:18] <fuzzie> confusing :)
[17:14:52] <Avenger> when they are idle they say the same as those action texts, why is it confusing?
[17:15:09] <Avenger> btw, now i changed my idea, and i think they start from 69 in bg1 AND 2 too
[17:15:18] <lynxlynxlynx> because one thing serves two different purposes, so the name is confusing
[17:15:23] <fuzzie> well, i never saw it happen in bg2, either
[17:15:31] <fuzzie> but i only ever played SoA, really
[17:15:39] <Avenger> look at aeextort.cre in bg1
[17:15:43] <fuzzie> but, yes, what lynx said
[17:16:06] <fuzzie> it looks like we already have some notes in irc history about INITIAL_MEETING too
[17:16:30] <fuzzie> you mean, bg2?
[17:16:35] <Avenger> yes
[17:17:26] <Avenger> aeextort.cre : verbal constant 69: definitely an idle sound
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[17:18:39] <Avenger> monsters with 2da got a -1 there, so they may have a 2da based sound
[17:18:48] <fuzzie> and this truly works in bg2, and it's not a leftover?
[17:19:35] <Avenger> well, i'm pretty sure i heard joinable npcs in the pocket plane talking about hiding/spellcasting etc
[17:19:44] <Avenger> in original game
[17:20:04] <fuzzie> like i said, i don't think i ever tried it
[17:20:15] <Avenger> so try it
[17:20:30] <Avenger> that will decide the question if it works in bg2 or not
[17:20:43] <Avenger> just summon all of them, and wait a minute
[17:20:58] <fuzzie> i can't yet :) but maybe in an hour or two
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[17:21:20] <fuzzie> i took apart that overheating computer, and i couldn't see the heatsink! so much dust
[17:21:29] <Avenger> haha
[17:22:34] <fuzzie> so hopefully i will have that working
[17:23:06] <fuzzie> i want to fix the sparkles, too
[17:23:18] <fuzzie> but i don't remember how they're meant to behave, and youtube videos are very .. blurry
[17:23:49] <Avenger> youtube videos? other than speed play?
[17:24:01] <fuzzie> yes
[17:24:11] <fuzzie> it is amazing how many youtube videos there are, of infinity engine games
[17:24:27] <fuzzie> annoyingly, there are no useful runs of pst, though :(
[17:24:37] <Avenger> amng1 == amnish guard
[17:24:44] <Avenger> its pickpocket sound exists :)
[17:24:58] <Avenger> could be a leftover? don't think bg1 had amnish guards
[17:25:13] <Avenger> it says: no trouble out of you
[17:25:21] <fuzzie> you made a lot of Pandora users happy, by the way
[17:25:28] <Avenger> with what?
[17:25:31] <Avenger> the center code?
[17:25:38] <fuzzie> just gemrb existing :)
[17:25:41] <Avenger> ahh
[17:25:43] <Avenger> well
[17:26:03] <fuzzie> i know at least two people i talk to played a lot of bg1, already
[17:26:21] <Avenger> i'm happy there is a group of active people, maybe we will get some coders or at least playtesters out of them
[17:27:05] <Avenger> gemrb is soon will be 10 years old :)
[17:27:14] <fuzzie> but youtube game run videos are scary
[17:27:30] <fuzzie> this one i have open right now is 277 videos
[17:27:33] <fuzzie> of bg2
[17:27:37] <Avenger> balrog started gemrb before tob came out
[17:28:08] <Avenger> 277 separate videos for one single game run?
[17:28:26] <lynxlynxlynx> pst screenshots / ironman games are scarce too
[17:31:41] <fuzzie> youtube videos are limited to 10 minutes, i think, so you ahve to split them
[17:32:25] <Avenger> btw, i got the bg2 message for verbal constant groups
[17:32:47] <Avenger> so, i can prove that the existance group is 69-69+x
[17:33:26] <Avenger> there is an internal message (23)
[17:33:43] <Avenger> it picks those 5 values from the VC strings
[17:33:47] <Avenger> that is the idle message
[17:34:15] <Avenger> 0x8a3b47 is the code to select the 5 idle sounds
[17:34:32] <fuzzie> cool
[17:34:38] <Avenger> starts likethis:
[17:34:42] <Avenger> 008A3B47 6A 05 push 5
[17:34:44] <Avenger> 008A3B49 6A 45 push 45h
[17:34:46] <fuzzie> got any idea who it triggers for? :)
[17:34:50] <Avenger> that is pretty straightforward
[17:35:18] <Avenger> you mean, lets look at who sends that message
[17:35:42] <Avenger> i think it would be better to look for locations that trigger the message at all, regardless of idle or not, first
[17:35:54] <Avenger> i doubt i got the idle code disassembled
[17:36:20] <Avenger> aa73dc is the message, btw
[17:36:24] <Avenger> if you want to look for it
[17:37:09] <Avenger> i found 2 calls only, in attack/attackreevaluate
[17:37:18] <Avenger> not too much fish in my net :(
[17:37:55] <Avenger> also in damage/death opcodes
[17:38:03] <Avenger> so, that's pretty much what we already have
[17:39:02] <Avenger> oh there is a redirection
[17:39:16] <Avenger> there is another function i named 'displayconstantstring'
[17:40:13] <Avenger> it is the closest to our DisplayStringCore but like the strings.2da is in an internal table, and indexed
[17:41:07] <Avenger> hidden in shadows, for example, is called through that
[17:41:44] <Avenger> or critical hit
[17:43:22] <Avenger> that is called by a big heap of actions/opcodes
[17:46:10] <Avenger> i will have to reboot to windows, brb
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[18:39:07] <Avenger> hmm, couldn't find ANY usage of the reaction(lt/gt) trigger
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[19:11:31] <fuzzie> ok, on attempted Windows install number 3..
[19:14:54] <Avenger> fuzzie: i found how initial meeting is used
[19:15:27] <Avenger> when you initiate dialog with an npc and numtimestalkedto = 0, it uses the initial meeting vc.
[19:15:36] <Avenger> all other times, it uses a selection sound
[19:15:47] <Avenger> it works in tob
[19:15:56] <Avenger> one example is: 25spell.cre
[19:16:03] <Avenger> just movetoarea ar5011
[19:16:38] <Avenger> so that seems easy to implement
[19:19:12] <fuzzie> kinda
[19:19:21] <fuzzie> you get the string too, in bg1
[19:19:42] <fuzzie> and it also happens when the npc initiates dialog with you
[19:20:18] <Avenger> that's the same way, in begindialog
[19:20:29] <Avenger> at least, i think so
[19:21:09] <fuzzie> i just thought i'd mention those :)
[19:21:33] <fuzzie> i agree otherwise, that seems to be it
[19:22:18] <Avenger> i actually see how this is done, it is always called as verbal constant group 0, but that function checks if numtimestalked == 0
[19:22:36] <Avenger> if initial meeting == -1, it also jumps to the selection sounds
[19:22:56] <fuzzie> well, bg2 doesn't display the string, right?
[19:23:14] <fuzzie> so there must have been some changes
[19:23:55] <Avenger> when the dialog happens?
[19:24:00] <Avenger> maybe it scrolls out, let me see
[19:24:48] <fuzzie> the string associated with the verbal constant, i mean
[19:25:07] <Avenger> yes i know what you mean, and yeah, i don't see the string, only hear the wav resource
[19:25:10] <fuzzie> i have some notes somewhere, all the things which don't work in bg2
[19:25:40] <Avenger> this cannot really work better
[19:25:40] <fuzzie> i have a working windows install now, i guess the dust was the problem :)
[19:25:53] <Avenger> thats great :)
[19:26:38] <Avenger> this initial meeting string is totally useless, btw
[19:26:45] <fuzzie> in bg2?
[19:26:50] <Avenger> everywhere
[19:26:57] <fuzzie> hm
[19:27:05] <fuzzie> i thought it worked in bg1, but it is possible i am mistaken
[19:27:06] <Avenger> it is in the -1. text in dialog, no?
[19:27:15] <Avenger> it works, but it is redundant feature
[19:27:21] <Avenger> it is used before dialog started
[19:27:26] <fuzzie> oh
[19:27:26] <fuzzie> right
[19:27:31] <fuzzie> i know what's different in bg1
[19:27:39] <fuzzie> in bg1, the verbal constant happens before the dialog check.
[19:28:23] <Avenger> i don't see how that differs from what i see here
[19:28:35] <fuzzie> in bg2, if the actor has no dialog, the verbal constant doesn't play.
[19:28:42] <Avenger> aaah
[19:28:42] <fuzzie> that is how i remember it, anyway.
[19:28:49] <Avenger> ok, lets see
[19:28:57] <Avenger> i remove its dialog and see if it still works
[19:29:48] <Avenger> if you are right, then it is why i couldn't coerce aerie to use it ;)
[19:30:37] <Avenger> yeah, true
[19:30:50] <Avenger> if i removed the dialog, the initial greeting/selection doesn't happen either
[19:31:00] <Avenger> but in bg1 it works?
[19:31:09] <fuzzie> yes
[19:31:15] <Avenger> this is something we can fix only by a GF
[19:31:24] <fuzzie> again, you can check with the monks :)
[19:31:35] <fuzzie> i think a GF sounds fine
[19:31:45] <Avenger> so their oneliners are not done by dialog, or script
[19:32:09] <fuzzie> mods can fix up the creatures if they want it..
[19:32:14] <Avenger> you can do this, right?
[19:32:39] <Avenger> i would rather continue looking into the engine now ;)
[19:33:04] <fuzzie> well, i'm installing bg2, but i can catch up and code it later :)
[19:36:48] <Avenger> bg2's handling of stealing is quite crappy too
[19:37:05] <fuzzie> is it the one which doesn't fire the right trigger?
[19:37:09] <Avenger> there is a script '25steal' which would be triggered when you steal
[19:37:12] <fuzzie> i know one engine exe got patched for that
[19:37:31] <Avenger> yes, i think it triggers attacked
[19:37:37] <Avenger> instead of stealfailed
[19:37:45] <fuzzie> another GF :)
[19:37:51] <Avenger> yeah
[19:38:03] <Avenger> that is actually very easy
[19:38:14] <Avenger> i would like to see if it starts the correct dialog :)
[19:38:53] <Avenger> in glory of istar we did a lot of hacks to force the steal event, so we could make npcs that don't react with red circle to a stealing attempt
[19:39:20] <Avenger> we had a cleptomaniac joinable pc :)
[19:39:24] <fuzzie> there's some weidu stuff out there which goes with the stealfailed exe patch, i know
[19:39:59] <Avenger> yeah, that would be good if we can support that with a simple gf bit
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[19:57:52] <CIA-23> GemRB: 03avenger_teambg * rdd0bd83402ac 10gemrb/gemrb/ (4 files in 4 dirs): option: a failed pickpocket may trigger attack or steal failed
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