#gemrb@irc.freenode.net logs for 9 Nov 2011 (GMT)

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[00:47:22] <CIA-44> GemRB: 03bradallred * rdf0d697dd0f8 10gemrb/.gitignore: gitignore: stupid macs :)
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[01:00:49] <chiv> hi all
[01:02:03] <brad_a> hello
[01:03:25] <tomprince> hello.
[01:19:58] <chiv> I've been doing some vague thinking, I want to experiment with the ui of gemrb mainly, and give my shot at a clean and simple one, would this be potentially useful for the fabled 'bundled game data' that is occasionally mentioned?
[01:21:02] <brad_a> well sure. i dont see why not
[01:21:27] <brad_a> of course i dont know how likely it is that anybody will ever throw together a working game of any kind...
[01:22:31] <chiv> I actually dont think a custom game would be that difficult, from my experience the hard part is character model building
[01:23:01] <brad_a> well i would think with all the comunity mods people would probably be willing to share
[01:23:12] <brad_a> but who is going to thow it all together?
[01:23:19] <tomprince> I think Maighstir_ has been working on one.
[01:24:09] <chiv> I once helped my flatmate build a 2d isometric racer, the thing with houses , grass, scenery etc is they are not that dificult
[01:24:27] <tomprince> The thing to be careful of is most mods freely use all the original data, so you need to make sure that whatever you use from them isn't derived from the original.
[01:25:48] <brad_a> true
[01:26:31] <brad_a> is there a reason bioware/whoever wouldnt let us use the data? i mean i few other games from that era are free to use
[01:27:05] <brad_a> and those games are getting to the point they wont run on modern OSes
[01:28:27] <brad_a> i wish it were standard practice to just open source a game after 15 years :(
[01:28:54] <chiv> I think thats a prickly subject, theres been plenty examples of projects axed because they infringe...
[01:29:54] <brad_a> but there are at least few that have the express blessing of the copyright holder
[01:30:06] <brad_a> but i guess in this case it is more than bioware
[01:31:25] <chiv> theres also how much you can trust a publisher, eg streets of rage remake was given a quiet green light, then it was finished, then sega killed it
[01:31:39] <brad_a> how long until "works of art" fall under public domain?
[01:32:30] <tomprince> I think EA owns the right snow.
[01:33:47] <brad_a> EA?
[01:33:57] <chiv> I certainly wouldnt have much faith in their benevolence :)
[01:34:10] <brad_a> the sad thing is that the source code probably has been long since deleted
[01:34:38] <brad_a> or lost
[01:34:55] <tomprince> I seem to recall discussions saying that was the case.
[01:35:01] <brad_a> lol
[01:35:05] <brad_a> im not supprised
[01:35:09] <chiv> I think id pioneered that open sourcing idea on their own, didnt they?
[01:35:29] <brad_a> wait a min. somebody contacted them aout getting the sourse?
[01:35:41] <brad_a> did they say "sure if only we had it"?
[01:36:24] <brad_a> chiv: lots of games from that era went open about the same time
[01:36:43] <brad_a> none as cool as BG et al
[01:36:57] <tomprince> I got the impression that they were contacted. I don't know if it was a yes, if we had it. They probably didn't really say one way or the other, since it was moot anyway.
[01:37:07] <chiv> I think it would be strange if they did lose the source, there is always the option of re-bundling on newer systems in future
[01:37:22] <brad_a> well what about macsoft? they could still have the code i assume
[01:37:51] <brad_a> chiv: it doesnt seem all that many people are intereset in that
[01:38:00] <brad_a> otherwise gemrb would be more popular :)
[01:38:21] <brad_a> also i imagine if the did a rerelease in any way it would be on a modern engine
[01:38:34] <brad_a> like dragon age or something
[01:38:51] <chiv> without the code though, they would have to go through the same struggle as gemrb
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[01:39:28] <brad_a> like i said they wouldnt reuse that code anyway
[01:39:45] <brad_a> what with it being too old to run on many systems. also very very buggy
[01:40:02] <tomprince> And a reimplementation is going to be less buggy?
[01:40:12] <brad_a> well id like to think :)
[01:40:20] <brad_a> i think we will get there someday
[01:40:36] <brad_a> granted its taken over a decade..
[01:41:07] <tomprince> Yes, we have the leisure to work until it is done.
[01:41:14] <chiv> good things take time :)
[01:41:27] <brad_a> that they do
[01:41:39] <chiv> anyway, being paid to do it would be a different story altogether
[01:41:47] <brad_a> sure
[01:41:54] <brad_a> well people have offered to pay us
[01:42:04] <tomprince> ?
[01:42:37] <brad_a> several people offered a "bounty" to get a port for ipad
[01:43:15] <brad_a> and people had offered to buy a developer certificate to get it on the appstore
[01:43:42] <brad_a> and people had offred me semiworking hardware for testing since i dont own an iDevice
[01:46:17] <brad_a> i know there were other more general offers for donations
[01:48:08] <chiv> maybe you guys should set up a donation page
[01:48:09] <tomprince> I may be getting a couple of rasberry pi's for christmas
[01:49:35] <tomprince> One suggestion was to get avenger a new version of VS, that has a proper debugger.
[01:50:03] <tomprince> But then, dltcep uses vs6 mfc.
[01:50:52] <brad_a> no good free IDE for windows?
[01:52:51] <tomprince> no good *debugger*
[01:53:44] <brad_a> no GDB? or am i blissfully unaware that gdb is in fact not "all that"
[01:53:46] <tomprince> Apparently VS6 is better than the more recent ones, although fuzzie was mentioing that VS2010 has good ones for $$$
[01:54:06] <tomprince> The latter.
[01:54:12] <brad_a> i dont know how or where fuzzie finds the time to know everything she does
[01:54:31] <brad_a> hmm what is GDB missing? i rather like it
[01:54:41] <tomprince> I'm fine with it too.
[01:55:11] <brad_a> between GDB and valgrind i cant think of anything im missing
[01:55:27] <brad_a> but it wasnt too long ago that i didnt know i needed valgrind ;-)
[02:01:21] <tomprince> I did see an article on what seemed like a new gui frontend to gdb.
[02:01:24] <tomprince> (on lwn)
[02:05:58] <brad_a> ah xcode has a pretty nice interface to GDB IMO so i guess thats why im happy with it
[02:09:25] <tomprince> Although apple is working lldb to replace gdb
[02:20:23] <brad_a> why? some stupid license thing?
[02:23:34] <tomprince> Oh, that mey be it.
[02:23:58] <tomprince> Apple doesn't like GPLv3, hence llvm+clang
[02:24:03] <tomprince> (in part)
[02:24:28] <tomprince> That is at least why the employ the original developer.
[02:24:41] <tomprince> Well, I get that impression (head developer at least)
[02:25:16] <brad_a> thats what fuzzie says
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[03:09:49] <brad_a> im sure im doing something wrong but i cant get gemrb -c /path/to/config.cfg to work…
[03:18:11] <brad_a> yup cocoa wrapper was being stupi and not passing that along :)
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[05:11:28] <chiv> I was just thinking, this might sound like a mad suggestion but what if gemrb had some built in features for modding?
[05:13:02] <brad_a> example?
[05:13:32] <brad_a> its probably only mad in the sense it will probably never get done :-P
[05:13:52] <chiv> I was looking at the glory of istar shot on the sourceforge page with the string ref numbers and I thought to myself, it would be cool if you could just write directly in there in game
[05:14:51] <brad_a> im not sure what you mean
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[05:15:53] <brad_a> hmph closed the wrong chat :(
[05:16:15] <chiv> imagine you are running around a custom area, un populated, filling it with characters, if you had some rudimentary dlg editor in there it could be quite an immersive experience to write
[05:17:17] <chiv> probably mad in the sense of being redundant, but its an idea
[05:19:30] <chiv> when you look at it, there is already a kind of creature editor in the game already, its the character generator
[05:20:23] <tomprince> Not a crazy idea. Cerainly not possible now ... not enough accesible via python.
[05:20:50] <tomprince> And, there are a number of formats we can't write (like dialogs)
[05:26:10] <chiv> I guess it would need to be a project for one of the veteran tool programmers
[05:28:44] <brad_a> well that and finish up the engine :)
[05:31:37] <chiv> from what I have seen so far, seems like you're definitely on the final stretch
[05:31:58] <tomprince> iwd2 is largely unimplemented.
[05:32:34] <brad_a> and thats the one i want most :(
[05:32:42] <brad_a> mostly for using its rules with other games :)
[05:33:06] <brad_a> i hear PST is still really buggy too, but i havent got that game
[05:33:07] <chiv> yeah ive not looked at iwd2 much, mainly because the action bar is broken..
[05:33:20] <brad_a> it should be fixed now IIRC
[05:36:23] <chiv> hmm, last time I tried it was just filling up with seemingly random buttons
[05:36:50] <chiv> I cant get it to work at all now after recent commits...
[05:39:14] <brad_a> oh wel then i guess we jsut broke it more :-p
[05:40:03] <chiv> well, the other games are broken too, i was just trying to find out why...
[05:42:51] <brad_a> are you sure its something that was committed remotely or is it something you did on your local repo?
[05:43:10] <chiv> well, i did a fresh clone
[05:43:17] <brad_a> to find out exactly which commit broke it use git bisect
[05:44:02] <brad_a> http://book.git-scm.com/5_finding_issues_-_git_bisect.html
[05:53:25] <Beh0lder> hi all
[05:54:23] <brad_a> hello
[05:54:50] <chiv> hi
[05:55:35] <chiv> whats the biggest thing lacking for iwd2 support anyway?
[05:56:44] <joneirikb> I can't resist the bad pun: Developers ?
[05:56:52] <chiv> hah
[05:58:01] <chiv> because if its nothing major and just a case of time, i could probably help
[05:58:20] <brad_a> well i assume its because the rules are soo diffrent
[05:59:28] <brad_a> so i guess none of the 3rd ed rules have been implemented
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[06:04:38] <chiv> Well, I guess it cant hurt for me to investigate...
[06:06:43] <brad_a> nope it cant
[06:06:54] <brad_a> i honestly have no idea what implementing those would take
[06:07:01] <brad_a> iirc its a lot of python tho
[06:15:59] <Beh0lder> Right, PST is buggy. Unplayable. It's my favorite game.
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[06:16:53] <brad_a> there have ben quite a few updates to PST lately tho
[06:18:35] <Beh0lder> I trying latest. Some scripts not works, most items unusable, some graphics glitches.
[06:18:58] <brad_a> graphic glitches? thats interesting
[06:19:19] <brad_a> i was under the impression PST was mostly playable
[06:20:16] <Beh0lder> try to open container, and close it. clock in left-down corner disappears
[06:21:20] <Beh0lder> can't use bandages, potions, quest items etc.
[06:23:01] <brad_a> thats a shame.hopefully most will be fixed soon
[06:23:10] <Beh0lder> maybe, it's a bugs of Russian version, but unlikely
[06:24:00] <brad_a> well nobody can seem to reproduce your journal bug
[06:24:15] <Beh0lder> (
[06:25:26] <chiv> oh yeah, ui problem seems to be with the new get actor global macro
[06:25:50] <brad_a> you should tell lynx tomorrow
[06:26:53] <Beh0lder> it was not a journal bug. One dialog is not appears for me. This dialog adds first entry to journal.
[06:27:11] <Beh0lder> but in original game it works fine(
[06:28:15] <brad_a> yes but the point is it works for others in gemrb so must be difference between russian and other versions? or a mod? or different patch level?
[06:33:44] <Beh0lder> only dialog.tlk and fonts are been replaced with russian patch
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[06:33:49] <Beh0lder> no more
[06:38:08] <chiv> beholder, have you tried with the pst patch installed?
[06:44:25] <Beh0lder> yes, my version is 1.1
[06:45:20] <chiv> it shouldnt have anything to do witht the russian patch then...
[07:13:37] <Beh0lder> ohoho
[07:13:51] <Beh0lder> this dialog vorks fine in oldest gemrb
[07:13:55] <Beh0lder> works
[07:14:28] <Beh0lder> i tried version 0.6.3
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[08:02:05] <chiv> 0.63 works for me too
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[08:03:42] <fuzzie> Beh0lder: it sounded pretty obviously some kind of trigger activation bug on the gemrb side, if it worked in original and you get no dialog in gemrb
[08:03:54] <Yoshimo> so you talked about the old "maybe bioware would release source after all those years if we ask kindly" topic last night again? ;)
[08:04:48] <chiv> haha. not likely
[08:05:00] <fuzzie> such discussions basically boil down to 'those WotC people don't have lawyers or anything, right?'
[08:05:19] <Yoshimo> wotc?
[08:05:47] <fuzzie> you don't watch the logos at the start of bg2? :p
[08:05:50] <fuzzie> (Wizards of the Coast)
[08:06:16] <fuzzie> in fact i guess Hasbro are even better known for their grumpy D&D lawsuits.
[08:07:29] <fuzzie> and they have privately claimed to multiple people to have lost the source and then some of the gog binaries are clearly rebuilds, is I think the situation there.
[08:07:52] <Yoshimo> no, i click through such intros that dont have to do anything with the gamecontent as fast as possible :P
[08:07:56] <fuzzie> "oh, we lost the source" followed by mysteriously finding it just before they do a re-release is a common problem in game companies, clearly they need to spend more time looking behind the sofa.
[08:08:35] <Yoshimo> well they could just be honest and tell you "we dont want to" instad of "sry we lost it"
[08:08:54] <Beh0lder> fuzzie, I tried GemRB version 0.6.3. This dialog works in it, but in 0.6.6 not. I think some code changes in GemRB causes this problem. Or not?
[08:08:57] <fuzzie> i'm sure they will never blatantly lie!
[08:08:59] <Yoshimo> i also think its rather unlikely to just loose it ^^
[08:09:02] <fuzzie> Beh0lder: probably. lots changed.
[08:10:48] <fuzzie> Yoshimo: well, for example the ZZT source code seems pretty lost, which is sad, so it does happen :)
[08:11:39] <Beh0lder> Is there any way to find the cause of this issue?
[08:11:55] <Yoshimo> my company has some very tight rules on archives for stuff nobody would need anyway, so im not used to this possibility ;)
[08:12:20] <fuzzie> Beh0lder: not unless you use git bisect. i will look into it at some point, but it will not be until the weekend at least.
[08:12:49] <Yoshimo> so hasbro bought wotc, a cardgame producer, whats the relationship between wotc and bioware?
[08:12:55] <chiv> 0.64 works
[08:13:11] <lynxlynxlynx> chiv: what's the action bar problem?
[08:13:14] <fuzzie> Yoshimo: WotC control the D&D licensing, which includes a ban on distributing anything that sort of might look D&D-shaped.
[08:13:44] <chiv> well, the guiscript crashes with 'actor not found'
[08:16:59] <Yoshimo> funny enough hasbro has their german hq near one of my companies buildings too^^
[08:17:07] <lynxlynxlynx> which one?
[08:17:17] <chiv> bg2
[08:17:23] <lynxlynxlynx> no, which command
[08:17:33] <lynxlynxlynx> it's printed right above
[08:18:11] <chiv> think it was in update actions window, cant check right now
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[08:18:45] <fuzzie> hm
[08:18:57] <fuzzie> if i load a ToB savegame, and try moving areas, i get the SoA map
[08:19:19] <fuzzie> that is not so great
[08:22:36] <fuzzie> lynxlynxlynx: i thought we kept global ids and party ids seperate so you needn't check which one
[08:23:33] <lynxlynxlynx> these were introduced since we have users of both
[08:23:48] <fuzzie> i mean
[08:23:54] <lynxlynxlynx> i think we should eventually just use globals everywhere
[08:23:55] <fuzzie> party ids being 0-5 and global ids starting at 1000
[08:24:09] <fuzzie> so i thought you could just do one, and then if it's null, the other
[08:24:15] <chiv> narrowed pst bug to between 0.6.4 and 0.6.5
[08:24:18] <fuzzie> i don't know though, i just *thought* that was the theory
[08:24:26] <fuzzie> that was the intention in any case :P
[08:24:33] <lynxlynxlynx> or just check if it's < 1000
[08:24:49] <lynxlynxlynx> but initially it we weren't adding 1000 to the id, so now we have it
[08:25:24] <fuzzie> i don't really mind, it just seems like a lot of messy effort adding a param to every function that you can auto-detect and you want to get rid of eventually anyway :)
[08:25:35] <fuzzie> i am just trying to work out who broke the world maps.
[08:27:37] <lynxlynxlynx> it's broken?
[08:27:42] <fuzzie> unfortunately i can't find any real changes since the iwd stuff.
[08:27:57] <fuzzie> lynxlynxlynx: well, as I said, if I load a ToB savegame, and move areas, I get the SoA map, so can't move anywhere
[08:28:30] <lynxlynxlynx> odd
[08:28:37] <chiv> hm... did you install my quickloader by any chance?
[08:28:46] <fuzzie> no, i reverted all changes
[08:28:56] <chiv> yay, not guilty
[08:29:11] <fuzzie> but i do see the issue i think
[08:30:08] <fuzzie> if true, worse than iwd, august 2010.
[08:30:12] <fuzzie> will look at it after breakfast.
[08:40:44] <lynxlynxlynx> i finished my tob playthrough on Jan 31 2011
[08:40:45] <lynxlynxlynx> so it was definitely fine in january
[08:40:46] <lynxlynxlynx> but this was a fresh tob game, not a soa continuation
[08:41:31] <fuzzie> problem here is that they're original saves.
[08:41:36] <fuzzie> (and a continuation)
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[08:55:42] <Beh0lder> I refreshed my BG1 bug list
[08:55:44] <Beh0lder> http://aom-game.org/downloads/gemrb_bugs.txt
[09:39:15] <Yoshimo> what do you mean by "boring bug" 39 ?
[09:41:41] <Beh0lder> Party members continuously says "bored" phrases after some time of playing
[09:43:47] <fuzzie> that's still broken?
[09:44:00] <Beh0lder> yes
[09:45:13] <Yoshimo> yea ive seen it too they seem to be constantly bored ;)
[09:46:23] <fuzzie> hm that does seem clearly stupid
[09:47:39] <fuzzie> but i don't see why it would break like that
[09:48:45] <Beh0lder> I can provide save from bg1
[09:48:49] <fuzzie> oh, i do, if you're idle then you get idle comments every 20 seconds i guess, since there's a divide by 10.
[09:49:31] <Beh0lder> seems to be true
[09:50:09] <fuzzie> do you have AI scripts disabled maybe?
[09:51:03] <fuzzie> hm, weird.
[09:51:08] <fuzzie> the all is in the wrong place anyway.
[09:53:15] <Beh0lder> I turn off AI always. What about boots of speed? This great artifact is very useful
[09:54:44] <Yoshimo> do you have to turn off ai when you dont assign ai scripts?
[09:55:30] <chiv> i tracked the pst bug to the conspicuously titled 'rewrite some of the action/trigger code' commit 7f004525f9fe21e65073796b10ad0d09c7522f94
[09:55:58] <fuzzie> did you work out what the trigger *is*?
[09:55:59] <Beh0lder> chiv: great
[09:56:11] <chiv> not yet
[09:56:45] <chiv> should just be a case of checking with near infinity
[09:56:51] <fuzzie> yes
[09:57:43] <fuzzie> but i bet we don't set trigger_harmlessentered.
[09:59:20] <chiv> near infinity does not like my linux box :(
[10:00:18] <fuzzie> my best guess would be 0201opda.baf which checks HarmlessEntered([PC]).
[10:01:26] <fuzzie> since we only set that in InfoPoint::TriggerTrap.
[10:01:44] <fuzzie> and maybe that is set on a door.
[10:01:57] <fuzzie> simple thing to see: hit ctrl-d or whatever on the door.
[10:04:27] <chiv> yep, door detrapped = no cutscene
[10:05:09] <fuzzie> ah, ctrl-m is what i am looking for.
[10:05:12] <fuzzie> for dumping script info.
[10:06:10] <chiv> ah, i thought it was doing nothing :)
[10:06:15] <fuzzie> if it's that script then just edit core/Scriptable/Scriptable.cpp and add one of those AddTrigger lines before the 'return false;', except trigger_harmlessentered.
[10:06:40] <fuzzie> erm
[10:06:50] <fuzzie> important context: in Highlightable::TriggerTrap :-)
[10:07:42] <chiv> http://pastebin.com/bqpfF5Lf
[10:08:10] <fuzzie> ah that makes much more sense.
[10:08:42] <chiv> any key to show polygons etc?
[10:08:51] <fuzzie> yes, but i forget what it is
[10:08:56] <fuzzie> could you try a fix, then?
[10:09:18] <fuzzie> Door.cpp:255 should have an 'else' clause which sets trigger_harmlessopened instead of trigger_opened, i expect.
[10:09:40] <Yoshimo> chiv try ctrl+4
[10:09:48] <fuzzie> there's also a trigger_harmlessclosed which perhaps means that there should be a similar Trapped check in the closed bit.
[10:10:11] <fuzzie> and irritatingly enough that is actually used. in one script.
[10:10:12] <chiv> i will look at it, if i can get it to work i will
[10:12:25] <chiv> hmm, kdevelop seems about as stable as some of my relatives...
[10:16:56] <edheldil> Are you trying to find the trigger for the journal cutscene?
[10:17:21] <edheldil> chiv: NI works ok with sun java
[10:17:58] <fuzzie> but at that point, why not use wine+DLTCEP?
[10:19:48] <chiv> i just like ni really
[10:19:58] <edheldil> I prefer running NI (and iesh, if it's something geared to it)
[10:20:43] <edheldil> what trigger are you looking for?
[10:20:52] <fuzzie> not necessary now.
[10:22:35] <edheldil> I mean, if it's the journal trigger, imo it's "Proximity Trigger 51" or st. like that in ar0202
[10:23:35] <lynxlynxlynx> Beh0lder: i fixed your 5.
[10:23:50] <fuzzie> it's ar202d1 attached to the door which is using HarmlessOpened to bump Mortuary_Walkthrough which is then checked by 0202trg1 when it gets HarmlessEntered with Morte in the party.
[10:26:53] <edheldil> ah, ok ... but the trigger that starts the curscene is run from the proximity trigger, no?
[10:27:16] <fuzzie> yes, but it's not the interesting one for the purpose of debugging it, afaict :)
[10:28:31] <chiv> i put AddTrigger(TriggerEntry(trigger_opened, ID)); , seems to work
[10:28:48] <edheldil> depends on whether what fails is bumping the global var or starting the cutscene :)
[10:29:22] <fuzzie> oh i see
[10:29:26] <fuzzie> this is more broken than i thought.
[10:30:32] <fuzzie> edheldil: and it is bumping the var :P
[10:30:54] <edheldil> k :)
[10:31:48] <fuzzie> chiv: do i just credit you as 'chiv' here?
[10:33:14] <chiv> yeah thats fine, i just found the commit break point though, you fixed it ;)
[10:33:39] <Beh0lder> lynx: thank you
[10:35:14] <CIA-44> GemRB: 03fuzzie * r57981e66aee0 10gemrb/gemrb/core/ (4 files in 2 dirs): fix HarmlessOpened/Closed. thanks to chiv for bisecting.
[10:41:46] <Yoshimo> what diffrence does the prefix harmless make?
[10:42:21] <fuzzie> not trapped.
[10:42:32] <fuzzie> pst-only.
[10:43:25] <chiv> I like git when I can understand how it works...
[10:45:21] <Yoshimo> do we need more than push and pull anyway? ;)
[10:46:51] <chiv> well, I keep changing versions. also, if someone else has worked on a file I am working on, I have no idea how to get it back to a happy non complaining state
[10:47:05] <chiv> other than nuking the folder and starting again
[10:47:47] <chiv> it feels better than reading the manual
[10:48:10] <wjp> I'd really suggest reading the manual anyway :-)
[10:48:57] <chiv> thats what my washing machine said. its in a better place now
[10:53:59] <Yoshimo> i hit "new game" and im waiting and waiting and waiting even more for the ressource manage, while the game window turned slightley grey and has a waiting circle^^
[11:01:25] <Yoshimo> what kind of error can lead to pink character shadows? ;)
[11:04:22] <fuzzie> you used the wrong paint.
[11:04:50] <Yoshimo> no its just a mod install gone very bad, but i have no idea where to start looking for the problem
[11:05:31] <fuzzie> is this in original engine?
[11:06:12] <fuzzie> it had some issues with acceleration or something
[11:06:16] <fuzzie> but don't know.
[11:06:52] <Yoshimo> happens with gemrb, original engine fails at detecting the cd drive
[11:22:04] <chiv> actually i second the pink shadow thing, its thanks to the 1pp avatar mod
[11:22:50] <chiv> which is a shame, cos 1pp is generally nice
[11:26:21] <chiv> I like the part of it that makes female dwarves shave their beards
[11:31:15] <fuzzie> poor dwarves, as if they weren't abused enough already :(
[11:34:29] <chiv> it is funny though, when I first saw a bearded dwarf i thought it was a bug
[11:34:42] <chiv> dwarfette rather
[11:36:29] <chiv> I dunno about the beards.. they never grew on me
[11:37:12] <fuzzie> you are rather leaving an obvious opportunity for someone to say "just wait until you're older" there.
[11:38:06] <Yoshimo> be lucky,having to shave is a stupid annoying repetitive task, like the poor greeks that for example roll a bolder up the hill and shortly before they reach the top, it falls down all the way^^
[11:38:11] <chiv> extremely bad pun was intented :)
[11:38:33] <fuzzie> well, the end product of one of those santa-claus type beards seems like it would be fun to have
[11:38:50] <fuzzie> i guess i mean more like a Gandalf type beard.
[11:38:52] <chiv> they get in the way of your mouth
[11:39:05] <fuzzie> ok, that does sound inconvenient.
[11:39:37] <Yoshimo> kissing santa would be a rather uncomfortable act i guess
[11:40:31] <fuzzie> there's a scene in the West Wing which involves kissing a santa with a faked beard, which looked inconvenient enough as it was.
[11:40:56] <chiv> i'll wager, how would he explain it to mrs claus?
[11:41:42] <chiv> it would be a scandal for all the elves...
[11:44:34] <Yoshimo> something on topic , when gemrb shows empty dialog options but the real game doesnt, what do we do now?
[11:47:10] <edheldil> What do you mean with empty dialog options?
[11:48:39] <Yoshimo> some npc initiates a dialog with me, 6 answers possible, first 5 empty
[11:48:45] <edheldil> fuzzie: if you/we had used a bugtracker, you could add "Closes #bugnum" to commit messages, which would made a cause for the commit more clear ;-)
[11:48:55] <edheldil> i.e. without text?
[11:48:58] <Yoshimo> yea
[11:49:46] <fuzzie> edheldil: as usual, find a bugtracker which isn't painful to use.. :)
[11:49:52] <edheldil> is it some specific npc?
[11:50:02] <Yoshimo> the sf one is at least ugly
[11:50:10] <Yoshimo> edheldil: , i dont think so, but gimme a moment
[11:50:37] <edheldil> Haven't seen this bug vefore
[11:50:56] <chiv> im not the only one who thinks the sf bugtracker is crap then...
[11:50:58] <fuzzie> the sf one works ok for scummvm as long as we make sure to close any bugs in unfinished code
[11:52:27] <fuzzie> i'd go crazy trying to use it for more than a small handful of bugs though.
[11:54:04] <fuzzie> as i've said before, google code's bug tracker is somewhat nicer in that sense, since you can tag stuff in a bunch of ways and then link to relevant tag searches for combinations
[11:56:28] <edheldil> we could use it, though it adds administrative overhead
[11:56:49] <fuzzie> the sf one doesn't? :p
[11:57:03] <fuzzie> i don't think any is appropriate for a project where you can find as many bugs as you want though.
[12:02:18] <chiv> i think a tracker for gemrb is difficult because it is unfinished, so you cant keep track of what is unimplemented vs what is a genuine bug
[12:03:20] <chiv> thats why on my first play, I was trying to only report things which seemed obviously unintended
[12:03:44] <chiv> which is much more important to worry about than this http://sourceforge.net/tracker/?func=detail&aid=3095664&group_id=10122&atid=110122
[12:05:43] <lynxlynxlynx> Yoshimo: maybe it's related to the dialogf.tlk
[12:06:50] <Yoshimo> possible, how much work would that be to implement anyway?
[12:07:19] <lynxlynxlynx> i'm not sure, but i wouldn't guess it is much
[12:07:45] <lynxlynxlynx> i don't know if we have a clear understanding on how it's supposed to work
[12:18:12] <Yoshimo> isnt it: if the person that is talked to is female, use the dialogf.tlk?
[12:18:48] <fuzzie> i think it depends on the person who initiated the conversation
[12:19:43] <Yoshimo> wouldnt that mean: if imoen triggers a dialog with a male character, you would call him a her?
[12:20:30] <fuzzie> the male character calls *imoen* a her.
[12:21:00] <fuzzie> doesn't matter in english though, since you can use him/her replacements.
[12:22:34] <edheldil> eh? it depends on who the player is, IMO
[12:24:17] <Yoshimo> i guess its also used if a dialog between 2 other people happens without the player
[12:24:20] <Beh0lder> fuzzie: your commit not fully fixed cutscene bug
[12:24:38] <Beh0lder> dialog appears, but wrong
[12:24:48] <Beh0lder> morte says about book
[12:27:27] <fuzzie> edheldil: that's just coincidence because usually the relevant dialogs are initiated from the player side in some way
[12:27:36] <fuzzie> but there are corner-cases. i don't know if anything cares about them.
[12:28:48] <fuzzie> Beh0lder: what is the global Mortuary_Walkthrough set to after you opened the door?
[12:28:51] <Yoshimo> i wouldnt bet and rely on the "usually" ;)
[12:29:27] <chiv> wouldnt it be, if the pc adressed is female?
[12:29:41] <fuzzie> well, for example in pst i think you are always forced to the protagonist, so it's a lot easier there
[12:30:00] <fuzzie> but i don't know which engine revision edheldil is thinking of when he's ehhing about it. :)
[12:31:04] <edheldil> that would not make sense, would not it? The think which is not given during game design is the sex of the protagonist.
[12:31:29] <fuzzie> but it's only in pst where conversations are all with the protagonist.
[12:32:10] <Yoshimo> in bg there can also be conversations , banter between group members
[12:32:12] <edheldil> ah, then ok
[12:32:22] <Yoshimo> like imoen and chloe having a row
[12:32:24] <chiv> the russian patch doesnt have a dialogf.tlk
[12:32:47] <Beh0lder> fuzzie: I can't get this dialog in original, try to see videos on youtube
[12:32:54] <fuzzie> chiv: apparently the translators just avoid past forms?
[12:33:28] <fuzzie> Beh0lder: the book conversation is only used when Mortuary_Walkthrough is 3 which never happens in the original.
[12:33:43] <chiv> i would have thought that would not be a use case for dialogf.tlk, since imoen and chloe are not going to suddenly sex change
[12:34:11] <fuzzie> chiv: afaik it is probably a coding error.
[12:34:14] <chiv> but i may be wrong :)
[12:34:42] <edheldil> with a suitable mod, everything is possible
[12:34:53] <fuzzie> oh hm, Mortuary_Walkthrough does get set to 3 by 0202cs2.
[12:35:41] <Yoshimo> i think there was a belt of sex change too
[12:35:42] <fuzzie> maybe that is a trigger evaluation order bug.
[12:35:55] <chiv> I dont fully understand the actual language implication, but I would have thought the only factor that can change is the gender of the character adressed
[12:36:14] <fuzzie> chiv: yes, which requires different dialog text.
[12:36:55] <fuzzie> but it's not any more complicated than that.
[12:37:20] <fuzzie> but saying "you don't need it for imoen/chloe" is not very relevant because you *do* need it for the PC, so it is there in the engine :)
[12:38:08] <chiv> ah yes, but it wouldnt have to have a different set of lines between those two characters is what i meant
[12:38:22] <edheldil> those tow could also speak about the protagonist ;-)
[12:38:26] <edheldil> two
[12:38:33] <chiv> arg..
[12:38:40] <fuzzie> yeah, and that is where it all falls apart.
[12:38:47] <chiv> my head hurts
[12:38:53] <fuzzie> much easier in the english version where they don't bother :P
[12:39:44] <edheldil> in the 3rd person they would have to. But I guess they carefully avoid the issue
[12:40:17] <fuzzie> there are HISHER etc tags.
[12:40:48] <edheldil> ah
[12:40:50] <fuzzie> MALEFEMALE, MANWOMAN, LADYLORD, GIRLBOY, HESHE, HISHER, HIMHER, SIRMAAM, etc
[12:41:12] <fuzzie> so that works very well for english
[12:42:10] <Beh0lder> fuzzie: what is Mortuary_Walkthrough?
[12:42:19] <Beh0lder> it's a game variable?
[12:42:22] <fuzzie> Beh0lder: the global variable which controls Morte's mortuary walkthrough.
[12:42:23] <fuzzie> yes.
[12:42:35] <edheldil> global which controls much of dialog in dmorte2
[12:42:49] <Beh0lder> how i check it?
[12:46:45] <chiv> I've read that dialog.tlk can contain scripts... could complex three way gender issues somehow be resolved by that?
[12:46:47] <edheldil> maybe in console: print GemRB.GetVar('Mortuary_Walkthrough')
[12:47:28] <fuzzie> not GetVar.
[12:47:32] <fuzzie> CheckVariable maybe?
[12:47:35] <Beh0lder> i use android, no console available (
[12:48:05] <fuzzie> if you have no console and a limited python install then you can't debug this stuff, i think.
[12:48:37] <edheldil> would Tom's web plugin work on Android? That would be ideal, I think
[12:49:23] <chiv> gemrb.checkvariable doesnt do much
[12:49:24] <Beh0lder> but maybe testing with english version can helps? I'll post dialogues verbatim
[12:49:46] <fuzzie> edheldil: hence 'limited python install'
[12:51:19] <Beh0lder> edheldil: Building for windows will easier, i think)
[12:52:48] <Beh0lder> I think anyone can reproduce this issue, independent of game language
[12:53:09] <edheldil> chiv: print GemRB.CheckVar("Mortuary_Walkthrough", "Global")
[12:53:56] <chiv> [GUISCript]: Global Mortuary_Walkthrough=3
[12:54:00] <edheldil> fuzzie: suspected it would be like that :)
[12:54:16] <fuzzie> you can get a useful python for android, but i'm pretty sure Beh0lder will be using Beh0lder's libpython.so
[12:55:06] <Beh0lder> )
[12:55:37] <Beh0lder> this library is minimalistic, only for gemrb
[12:55:59] <edheldil> what about defining a fn which would output to screen instead of console? If it's hard to redirect stdout wholesale ...
[12:57:23] <fuzzie> edheldil: but where do you type?
[12:57:40] <Beh0lder> stdout not implemented in android, no way
[12:57:58] <edheldil> in the gemrb's graphical console ... or is that a problem on android as well?
[12:58:13] <edheldil> Beh0lder: I doubt it
[12:58:35] <chiv> or even to the text window
[12:59:31] <edheldil> I mean, you might have a problem to see it in normal occurence, but if you spawn process and read its descriptor 1, I hope you would read its stdout.
[12:59:44] <edheldil> but I obviously know nothing about android
[12:59:48] <fuzzie> edheldil: you're not allowed to spawn processes
[13:00:04] <Beh0lder> I redirect python stdout output to file while i working on my first gemrb port
[13:00:24] <fuzzie> but you could just modify our print functions
[13:00:40] <edheldil> well, so stdout is there, but not in a terminal
[13:00:52] <fuzzie> edheldil: but how do you get it? :)
[13:01:16] <edheldil> well, in a file, if you redirect it
[13:01:22] <fuzzie> but we deliberately route all this stuff via __android_log_vprint anyway.
[13:01:26] <fuzzie> so it doesn't even get to stdout.
[13:01:32] <fuzzie> edheldil: but how do you redirect it? :)
[13:02:12] <edheldil> close(1);fopen("file", "w") ?
[13:02:33] <fuzzie> is that likely to work?
[13:03:13] <edheldil> then fdopen()
[13:03:32] <edheldil> sorry
[13:04:18] <edheldil> dup2()
[13:04:21] <fuzzie> you can setprop log.redirect-stdio anyway
[13:04:28] <fuzzie> since it's forked off from dalvik
[13:05:18] <fuzzie> but irrelevant :)
[13:05:37] <edheldil> then is there gemrb console on android?
[13:07:39] <Beh0lder> what shortkey enable console?
[13:07:43] <edheldil> btw, can you do fork()?
[13:07:43] <edheldil> guess not
[13:07:52] <edheldil> ctrl space
[13:09:06] <fuzzie> you can fork() but then you have a relatively useless child process
[13:09:47] <Beh0lder> if i remap this shortcut to symbol key i think it will be work
[13:10:23] <Beh0lder> but I think it is not necessary
[13:11:25] <Beh0lder> debugging on smartphone is not a good idea
[13:11:41] <Beh0lder> on PC it will be more easier
[13:14:14] <Beh0lder> Android version does not have any specific differences
[13:59:26] <Yoshimo> mhmm i prefer computer for developing ;)
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[14:02:01] <edheldil> what about this trivial change? https://github.com/edheldil/gemrb/commit/37efdd989f713668d52225b31453aab570df2d17
[14:03:27] <fuzzie> that's just confusing
[14:03:31] <fuzzie> is GEMRB_STRING == -1?
[14:03:41] <fuzzie> or GEMRB_VERSION?
[14:05:34] <edheldil> GEMRB_STRING is the version string, GEMRB_VERSION is the python resref :)
[14:05:40] <fuzzie> and -1 is what?
[14:06:21] <edheldil> s/resref/strref/
[14:06:37] <fuzzie> i mean, your code uses a constant on the python side and a magic -1 on the C++ side
[14:06:44] <edheldil> that is the strref. No constant for it afaics
[14:07:13] <fuzzie> but then why are you using a constant for it on python side?
[14:08:06] <fuzzie> i'm just confused about what this is all doing
[14:08:10] <edheldil> because it exists and it was used for it before
[14:08:18] <fuzzie> right
[14:08:26] <fuzzie> but adding more of it is not so nice?
[14:08:59] <fuzzie> i mean, it just makes absolutely no sense to look at as it is, that's all
[14:09:08] <edheldil> it forces the "Gemrb v0.6.7 git" string on title page to uppercase
[14:09:20] <fuzzie> i see that the last person to mess with those constants was you in 2004, moving them around..
[14:09:27] <fuzzie> but it should be a constant in C++.
[14:09:37] <edheldil> right ...
[14:09:45] <fuzzie> otherwise it seems fine.
[14:09:53] <fuzzie> i hadn't realised this was an existing hack.
[14:10:01] <edheldil> yep
[14:10:01] <fuzzie> from the patch, it's just a random -1 coming out of nowhere..
[14:11:12] <fuzzie> if it's just duplicating existing behaviour then i'm not sure why you'd ask. but since you did ask, i'd like a constant used there if possible ;p
[14:11:50] <fuzzie> but if it's annoying then just commit.
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[14:24:34] <Yoshimo> whats the purpose of this patch edheldil ?
[14:29:03] <Yoshimo> and how do you select the point where the character pops when i do movetoarea-cheats? i have the feeling there are diffrences to vanilla
[14:31:38] <fuzzie> we don't maintain cheat compatibility with original :P
[14:39:29] <Yoshimo> that would be grandmastery in compatibility ;)
[14:42:22] <Yoshimo> the bgmain seems to occasionally show useful hints in lightblue on the chatbox, gemrb does not as far as ive seen
[14:43:46] <lynxlynxlynx> yes, it reprints the tips from the loading window
[14:44:40] <Yoshimo> original also seems to use other colors for some of the messages
[14:45:39] <Yoshimo> xp in green for example
[14:46:24] <lynxlynxlynx> err, out xp is in green
[14:46:45] <lynxlynxlynx> i think it's yellow in one of the originals (iwd2?)
[14:48:22] <lynxlynxlynx> cool, i get the actor not found error too now
[14:49:25] <lynxlynxlynx> and yep, it's my fault
[14:52:44] <Yoshimo> lynx, i think bg2 in gemrb reports it in yellow too
[14:53:49] <lynxlynxlynx> prove me wrong
[14:54:01] <lynxlynxlynx> i even named the color XPGREEN :)
[14:55:30] <CIA-44> GemRB: 03lynxlupodian * r464f48199967 10gemrb/gemrb/plugins/GUIScript/GUIScript.cpp: GemRB_Window_SetupControls: fixed oops from d7b0e7f29637884
[15:19:10] <lynxlynxlynx> grrrrrrr rrrrrrrrr
[15:19:22] <lynxlynxlynx> my favourite bit strikes again
[15:19:25] <fuzzie> oh?
[15:19:47] <lynxlynxlynx> SF_HLA is not set on any spell even in a freshly created char
[15:20:17] <lynxlynxlynx> no time to investigate now though, the pause is over
[15:49:09] <edheldil> Yoshimo: sorry, work meeting ;-). The purpose is getting a nice GemRB version string on pst screen by making GetString(-1) behave analogically to SetText(-1). Of course, the simplest way would be to to use another font for the label :-)
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[16:06:35] <lynxlynxlynx> hmm, it's incosistent in the data too
[16:08:55] <fuzzie> which spells are you looking at?
[16:09:01] <fuzzie> stuff that really should have it set?
[16:10:18] <fuzzie> gemrb doesn't seem to check it in the obvious spots
[16:10:19] <chiv> I was just checking out the spell sort feature, I have got to admit I dont really understand how it works :)
[16:10:24] <lynxlynxlynx> magic missile, burning hands, chill touch
[16:10:27] <fuzzie> so
[16:10:34] <fuzzie> those have HLA set?
[16:10:46] <lynxlynxlynx> while color spray and chromatic orb have it set
[16:11:01] <lynxlynxlynx> grease too
[16:11:26] <lynxlynxlynx> so the first better guess would be also to consider anything that has a damage opcode attached
[16:11:40] <fuzzie> hmmmm
[16:11:47] <lynxlynxlynx> currently we ignore the data, it's all zero when i print it
[16:12:01] <lynxlynxlynx> so it's odd, since we have it in core in a few places
[16:12:15] <lynxlynxlynx> chiv: you just edit the table
[16:12:49] <chiv> ah, just found table
[16:14:33] <lynxlynxlynx> eh
[16:14:39] <lynxlynxlynx> silly silly me
[16:14:47] <lynxlynxlynx> SF_HOSTILE vs SF_HLA
[16:15:12] <fuzzie> ah!
[16:15:15] <fuzzie> right, those are sneakier
[16:16:01] <fuzzie> bg2 checks 'target != this or SF_HOSTILE set' for invis/sanctuary unapply.
[16:16:39] <edheldil> fuzzie: btw, I am adding a constant, STRREF_GEMRB_STRING to strrefs.h. There are also constant of the kind STR_PWNED, STR_... with a different meaning. So far so good. Then I decide to rename the python constant to STRREF_GEMRB_STRING as well and find out that python has STR_LOADMOS and STR_AREANAME that are only usable in GetGameString() and have another meaning. Madness :)
[16:16:44] <chiv> does that mean you can cast non hostile spells on your self while invisible?
[16:17:17] <fuzzie> edheldil: right, those latter two could also do with being different i guess
[16:17:17] <lynxlynxlynx> ok, much better, but mm has this unset too ><
[16:18:05] <lynxlynxlynx> chiv: under sanctuary, yes
[16:18:08] <chiv> because if you can then... doh
[16:18:20] <lynxlynxlynx> not under normal invisibility
[16:18:48] <fuzzie> why does it fail there?
[16:20:36] <lynxlynxlynx> that's what the rules say, you need to be improved invisible to be able to maintain it while casting
[16:21:47] <fuzzie> lynxlynxlynx: btw, among other missing SF_HLA checks: SF_HLA/SF_TRIGGER and cutscene state are not checked for wild mage kits.
[16:21:49] <edheldil> what do you think of this approach? Move the python "consts" to GetString, assign them indices -2, -3 and scrap GetGameString()? Or move GEMRB_STRING to GetGameString? :)
[16:22:18] <fuzzie> edheldil: i would prefer the latter but no strong feeling
[16:22:25] <lynxlynxlynx> checked where?
[16:22:54] <fuzzie> lynxlynxlynx: the original doesn't check them before checking if a wild surge happens.
[16:23:15] <fuzzie> oh hm
[16:23:24] <fuzzie> well, that is more complex than it looks actually.
[16:23:36] <fuzzie> because in fact those surely can't happen
[16:23:53] <Yoshimo> http://pastie.org/2836990
[16:23:53] <fuzzie> just trying to find the invis code
[16:24:06] <Yoshimo> sorry wrong tab guys
[16:24:20] <CIA-44> GemRB: 03lynxlupodian * rd2fd39fabb74 10gemrb/gemrb/plugins/GUIScript/GUIScript.cpp: GemRB_GetSpell: properly set the NonHostile item
[16:25:14] <fuzzie> \o/
[16:25:21] <fuzzie> but yes you set me looking at HLA..
[16:25:40] <fuzzie> it makes me suspect the spell code must be inconsistent between actions in original
[16:28:15] <chiv> now I wonder if I can get it to sort types in order 10, 9, 6, 11, 12, 4, 7, 2, 3, 1, 8, 5, 13, 0 without hurting my brain...
[16:29:23] <chiv> oh, unless I could swap the numbers for a, b, c etc
[16:31:24] <Yoshimo> why such a weird order chiv?
[16:32:02] <chiv> because in order thats fireballs to buffs to useless stuff like identify
[16:32:56] <chiv> i like fireballs
[16:36:31] <lynxlynxlynx> row 3 sorts with hostile spells first
[16:37:12] <lynxlynxlynx> need to add that extended header check though, so magic missile and chain lightning will be there too
[16:37:29] <lynxlynxlynx> interestingly also summon monster and summon spiders has the hostile bit set
[16:37:47] <lynxlynxlynx> i guess these are just copy/paste errors
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[16:52:16] <chiv> it flies :)
[16:52:50] <fuzzie> nice
[16:53:28] <chiv> only, to get the disabled spell type check working, it has to have the real types and not A B C...
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[17:27:34] <chiv> o.O somehow, it works anyway without extra help. should have checked that before doing stuff..
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[17:33:00] <chiv> two line patch http://pastebin.com/TGu67wRF
[17:40:25] <chiv> I'm actually starting to like python a bit
[17:41:48] <chiv> although, it would probably be nicer in a 2da like lynx has done...
[18:15:34] <chiv> night all
[18:17:51] <Yoshimo> bye
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[18:30:43] <Yoshimo> does bg store baldur.ini somewhere else than the gamefolder on win7? seems to not obey my window mode setting
[19:02:43] <Maighstir> It should be the game folder, although it may have problems writing to that folder (and thus save settings) unless you run as admin - it may save in the virtualstore at C:\Users\Username\AppData\Local\VirtualStore\Program Files....
[19:03:05] <Maighstir> f you edit the file manually and save it in the application folder, it should read it
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[19:55:49] <CIA-44> GemRB: 03lynxlupodian * r16fbde9904d5 10gemrb/gemrb/GUIScripts/InventoryCommon.py: added another GUIEnhancements option inspired by chiv: autoidentify items on transfer
[19:55:53] <CIA-44> GemRB: 03lynxlupodian * r45a909dcef7c 10gemrb/ (8 files in 5 dirs): changed GUIEnhancements to be a bitfield to allow more finegrained control
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[21:16:28] <Yoshimo> identify on transfer, what exactly is transfer lynx
[21:16:30] <Yoshimo> ?
[21:17:29] <lynxlynxlynx> moving
[21:21:09] <brad_a> item pickup falls under that category correct?
[21:38:01] <lynxlynxlynx> yes
[21:43:00] <CIA-44> GemRB: 03lynxlupodian * r9938d18ae186 10gemrb/gemrb/ (core/Spell.cpp core/Spell.h plugins/GUIScript/GUIScript.cpp):
[21:43:00] <CIA-44> GemRB: added Spell::ContainsDamageOpcode to improve the hostility check in GemRB_GetSpell
[21:43:00] <CIA-44> GemRB: this is used for sorting and without the change, spells like magic missile and
[21:43:00] <CIA-44> GemRB: chain lightning weren't considered as hostile
[21:58:10] <fuzzie> that's nice, lynx :)
[22:00:36] <lynxlynxlynx> mnja
[22:00:55] <lynxlynxlynx> should get back to the annoying stuff
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[22:03:31] <lynxlynxlynx> oh ow
[22:24:08] <Yoshimo> yea you have quite a big list of things "todo" ;)
[22:25:26] <lynxlynxlynx> my list is pretty short
[22:26:58] <Yoshimo> http://www.gemrb.org/wiki/doku.php?id=todo then, if you keep strictly to your own subset^^
[22:28:44] <lynxlynxlynx> that list is incomplete anyway
[22:29:18] <lynxlynxlynx> especially since it is not just about copying behaviour
[22:32:45] <Yoshimo> sorry, what do you mean?
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[22:34:58] <lynxlynxlynx> we improve beyong the original
[22:34:58] <lynxlynxlynx> making stuff more modder and user friendly
[22:35:01] <lynxlynxlynx> adding extra features
[22:43:14] <Yoshimo> you could rip the tobex code and see if you see something worth adding
[22:48:46] <fuzzie> it isn't really useful
[22:49:41] <lynxlynxlynx> and it is minimal
[22:50:09] <lynxlynxlynx> we also already implement some of its new extensions like configurable backstabbing
[22:51:22] <Yoshimo> well it adds stuff like remain hidden on pickpocket success, dont awake creatures if immune to dmg, concentrationchecks and more
[22:51:41] <fuzzie> yeah, but those are one-liners
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[22:51:47] <fuzzie> and we don't have any real good way to configure them yet
[22:52:02] <Yoshimo> which would be a task , implement a good way to config it
[22:59:04] <brad_a> would it be a good idea to make a gemrb CHU for some config interface that optionally loads before actually loading the game?
[23:00:17] <Yoshimo> some sort of option window indeed
[23:00:36] <edheldil_> brad_a: that's what I was proposing the other day. Could be done startup if GamePath is not found or st. like that
[23:01:32] <brad_a> yeah i alrady did something platform specific for iOS users but its not cross platform (and currently only lets them select a config anyway)
[23:02:26] <brad_a> i was a bit disappointed to learn gemrb only supports one argument (unless i missed something)
[23:03:10] <Yoshimo> and if the game is configured already maybe a special shortcut and a button hacked into the game ui to access the special gemrb optionswindow
[23:03:26] <brad_a> well that could be dangerous :)
[23:03:47] <brad_a> I imagine some options are not good to change at runtime
[23:03:52] <edheldil_> grr, c++ (or my knowledge of it) sucks. How is dependency injection supposed to work, when unless I use some class it does not bother to run factory consructors defined there
[23:03:56] <brad_a> but we coud disable them
[23:04:29] <edheldil_> brad_a: one argument to what?
[23:04:47] <brad_a> argv doesnt it only support -c?
[23:05:11] <fuzzie> what else would you pass?
[23:05:17] <brad_a> i was hoping for a way of assigning values to interface variables via argv
[23:05:48] <edheldil_> ah, I thought about it. Would be easy, but who would use it?
[23:05:53] <fuzzie> most of this stuff you really would not want people changing from underneath savegames for example
[23:06:47] <brad_a> well probably nobody directly it was something i was looking at when implementing my cocoa wrapper so i could force values etc
[23:07:18] <brad_a> nothing really important
[23:07:56] <brad_a> maybe gametype forcing for when i impleent the ability to load games via the itunes interface
[23:08:15] <Yoshimo> brad_a : just put a "requires restart to be active" ;)
[23:08:18] <brad_a> but i can always just make special config files and use them or something
[23:08:28] <fuzzie> edheldil_: i think after reading the dependency injection article i am no clearer about how it works
[23:08:37] <fuzzie> i mean, the wikipedia one
[23:09:40] <edheldil_> I have got one working ... or rather I thought so :(
[23:09:43] <fuzzie> the article seems like an incredibly overcomplicated way to describe a factory design pattern
[23:11:10] <edheldil_> the point is that you want to create list of factories without having to explicitly mentioning all the types in a single places
[23:12:13] <fuzzie> but what would you use it for in gemrb?
[23:12:28] <fuzzie> (other than plugins, which we already do that with, as far as i can understand the meanings)
[23:14:54] <fuzzie> i think my lack of understanding here is caused by disbelief that anyone would implement a factory as a hard-coded switch.
[23:14:55] <edheldil_> not in gemrb, but for my pet Lionheart project
[23:15:24] <fuzzie> so dependency injection is "factory method which is smarter than using hard-coded switch"?
[23:15:48] <Yoshimo> what does factory mean in this case? not a big building i guess
[23:16:43] <fuzzie> Yoshimo: a 'design pattern' which basically means you have a single function which can construct/initialise objects of various types, without the user having to know about anything except the interface they share
[23:17:17] <edheldil_> in my case it's a factory which adds itself to a central list just by linking in its module
[23:17:30] <edheldil_> or it would, if it worked :)
[23:17:37] <fuzzie> you know how gemrb does it?
[23:17:58] <edheldil_> it iterates files in a dir
[23:18:09] <fuzzie> see gemrb/includes/plugindef.h if not. the last half (with STATIC_LINK) is relevant for linking.
[23:18:28] <fuzzie> iterating files not very relevant for linking :)
[23:18:46] <edheldil_> ah, ok
[23:18:49] <fuzzie> might be helpful if you have trouble with it?
[23:19:42] <fuzzie> probably way overcomplicated for what you need
[23:23:04] <fuzzie> good luck!
[23:23:07] * fuzzie sleep
[23:26:25] <Yoshimo> who said students never sleep in the night but only during the day with open eyes? ;)
[23:29:17] <edheldil_> thanks, fuzzie.Au contraire, it looks much simpler than what I have
[23:49:11] <brad_a> im going to have to add a pitch argument for createsprite8 in order to do things the "Right Way" that we discussed the other day.
[23:49:32] <brad_a> unless there is a way to figure that out