#nuvie@irc.freenode.net logs for 13 Jan 2014 (GMT)

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[11:42:19] <HiPhish> Hi Yuv422
[11:42:25] <Yuv422> hi HiPhish
[11:43:04] <HiPhish> Have you considered how to include my new dolls into Ultima VI? The poll at the codex has been very in favour of them so far.
[11:43:45] <Yuv422> I'm still in favour of including them in the release
[11:44:10] <Yuv422> I've just got to get around to including the bmp files
[11:44:10] <HiPhish> Will they be able to show up in any mode?
[11:44:12] <Yuv422> :)
[11:44:21] <Yuv422> just in the new UI mode
[11:44:25] <Yuv422> at the moment
[11:45:13] <HiPhish> I was thinking about offering them as a mod, like one ZIP fle.
[11:45:36] <HiPhish> you then place the ZIP file into a specific directory and it overrides the default images
[11:45:59] <Yuv422> I don't see why people wouldn't want the new images
[11:46:08] <Yuv422> why don't we just include them
[11:46:22] <Yuv422> we already have custom dolls for the avatar
[11:46:44] <HiPhish> Maybe they are nostalgic for ugly sprites? I mean, why would people want the old interface either? ;)
[11:47:01] <Yuv422> it sounds like you just like the idea of a mod system ;-)
[11:47:10] <HiPhish> Also, it would allow other people to make their own custom dolls for other actors and offer those as mods as well.
[11:47:19] <HiPhish> Yes, I do :D
[11:47:24] <Yuv422> they can already do that if they want
[11:47:35] <Yuv422> they just need to add them to the data directory
[11:48:13] <HiPhish> I have seen a talk from Ryan C. Gordon about open source in game development. One project he mentioned was PysicsFS, are you familiar with it?
[11:48:25] <HiPhish> https://icculus.org/physfs/
[11:48:32] <Yuv422> I'm not really a fan of added dependancies
[11:48:52] <Yuv422> I'm really trying to keep nuvie dependancy free from a development point of view
[11:49:14] <Yuv422> I wouldn't want to add that system just to support zip a zip based mod system
[11:49:26] <Yuv422> it complicates the build and makes it harder to port etc
[11:49:33] <HiPhish> I understand, but if you don't use existing frameworks you are doomed to roll your own. Or not have it at all.
[11:49:45] <Yuv422> having said that I haven't actually looked at the project
[11:50:39] <HiPhish> The thing is, if people have to place files manually it's an ugly mess, they need to extract the ZIP files and then go through every single folder merging the contents with the existing contents.
[11:50:44] <Yuv422> my thoughts are if you're prepared to replace the supplied gfxs then you can copy somee files into a directory
[11:51:15] <HiPhish> You're the programmer, so you have the final say, but at least watch this.
[11:51:16] <HiPhish> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=r3wDnOAjrtk
[11:51:22] <HiPhish> It starts around 15:15
[11:58:45] <Yuv422> I'll have a look
[11:58:53] <Yuv422> butt I'm ogg to bed now
[11:58:59] <Yuv422> ogg/off
[11:59:09] <Yuv422> cya
[11:59:17] <HiPhish> Oh, It's noon where I live, so I'm making lunch.
[11:59:19] <HiPhish> bye
[11:59:34] <Yuv422> 11:00pm here
[11:59:37] <Yuv422> cya
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[13:05:36] * Dominus thinks physfs is overkill
[13:05:50] <Dominus> also requires cmake and readline to build...
[13:06:23] <Dominus> so also ncurses
[13:12:48] <Dominus> Eric: IMHO, you should just package the BMPs *BUT* provide a config setting to toggle them.
[13:20:53] <TheCycoONE> Dominus: why ncurses, or do you mean for ccmake?
[13:21:40] <Dominus> just took a quick look at readline's dependencies and there ncurses is lsited
[13:21:46] <Dominus> could be optional, though
[13:24:49] <TheCycoONE> doesn't look optional. Alright
[13:57:22] <Dominus> could also be build dependencie only, not runtime...
[13:57:59] <TheCycoONE> at least on Arch it's a runtime dep
[14:00:36] <Dominus> then it will be everywhere,I guess
[14:14:37] <TheCycoONE> yep
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[15:57:11] <Malignant_Manor> For adding the bloat for barely easier mod installation, it isn't worth it.
[15:58:22] <Malignant_Manor> Exult basically has two usable mods after years and a much bigger community.
[15:58:39] <Malignant_Manor> They are both by the same person and for different games.
[16:00:20] <Malignant_Manor> If the current modifications are included with Nuvie, then there won't likely be any others available ever.
[16:00:55] <Malignant_Manor> If there are, it is a very simple install and if mod developers cared, they could make an installer.
[16:03:12] <Malignant_Manor> There is currently very limited modding abilities. I would like an override folder though so when new installations occur, any modded files aren't overwritten.
[16:03:24] <Malignant_Manor> Otherwise, using snapshots would be a pain.
[16:05:35] <Malignant_Manor> I would like this override to work on everything in the data folder other than the key bindings, which already variable location overrides, and lua code, which doesn't have a nice way to mod at the moment.
[16:06:49] <Malignant_Manor> If Eric really cares about easy modifications of the lua, they could be added to the available override and overwrite the functions and hopefully be able to call back the original lua function like Exult can.
[16:14:07] <Malignant_Manor> I don't really consider the Avatar packs since they are included in the other mods and would likely either use them or the other mod and not both.
[16:14:31] <Malignant_Manor> Big surprise that the Avatar pack is also by the same person.
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[19:41:15] <Malignant_Manor> Yuv422: did you see the logs?
[19:47:58] <Yuv422> hi Malignant_Manor
[19:48:05] <Yuv422> yes just read them
[19:48:14] <Malignant_Manor> hekllo
[19:48:19] <Malignant_Manor> hello
[19:48:24] <Malignant_Manor> dang spelling
[19:48:28] <Yuv422> :)
[19:50:11] <Yuv422> I'm at the north pole on mars looking at fixing the lens
[19:50:30] <Malignant_Manor> We really should have a patch (override) directory
[19:50:51] <Malignant_Manor> I'm working on patfinding. It is a pain.
[19:50:51] <Yuv422> shouldn't be too hard
[19:51:06] <Yuv422> as we use that nuvie_load function
[19:51:19] <Yuv422> but I'd say that is a low priority at the moment
[19:51:28] <Malignant_Manor> I still think we should have the option to use the new dolls and sprites in the other styles.
[19:51:39] <Yuv422> yeah
[19:51:50] <Yuv422> again lower on the list
[19:51:55] <Yuv422> for me at least
[19:53:09] <Malignant_Manor> That shouldn't be hard though. Just add the option, have a generic doll, remove the default doll from the gump, and use transparency on the images instead of background color.
[20:20:49] <Yuv422> I'm not a fan off the automatic combat mode in MD
[20:21:02] <Malignant_Manor> Me either
[20:21:05] <Yuv422> it makes running from enemies quite hard
[20:22:01] <Malignant_Manor> Is it just an annoyance or does it actually make it harder by losing a turn?
[20:23:20] <Yuv422> I find that if I'm trying to run away my party members turn around to engage the enemy
[20:23:52] <Yuv422> so I keep having to disengage combat awhile trying to steer the party away from danger
[20:24:32] <Malignant_Manor> I never plated through MD. I just did some testing.
[20:35:23] <Malignant_Manor> Drop doesn't give the direction in the original Ultima 6
[20:36:08] <Malignant_Manor> I wonder if it has enough room for text in SE and MD
[20:39:29] <Malignant_Manor> Weird, my SE save has two people on top of each other.
[20:45:30] <Yuv422> strange
[20:45:36] <Yuv422> I've got to go now
[20:45:37] <Yuv422> cya
[20:45:39] <Malignant_Manor> It is at the sundial
[20:45:41] <Malignant_Manor> bye
[20:45:46] <Yuv422> lol
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[21:26:35] <Malignant_Manor> grr, I hate are message system that trims whitespace that I want
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[23:37:16] <HiPhish> Leodon sprite:
[23:37:17] <HiPhish> http://nuvie.sourceforge.net/phorum/read.php?1,1481,page=2
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