#nuvie@irc.freenode.net logs for 15 Oct 2003 (GMT)

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[09:45:38] --> exultbot has joined #nuvie
[09:45:38] --- Topic for #nuvie is: Nuvie - New Ultima VI Engine (http://nuvie.sf.net)
[09:45:38] --- Topic for #nuvie set by ChanServ at Tue Sep 2 15:36:26 2003
[10:22:25] <SB-X> hi yuv
[10:23:14] <SB-X> congrats on the new aquire :)
[10:23:23] <SB-X> get a chance to listen to any of the speech?
[11:30:57] <Yuv422> hey SB-X
[11:31:13] <Yuv422> just trying to decode it now
[12:48:23] <Yuv422> Yay! I've got sound
[12:48:35] * Yuv422 listens to Lord British
[12:48:51] <Yuv422> I've just got to find out what frequency it plays at
[12:49:50] <Coren_> As a side note, a toy idea I've been playing around in my head is voice acting for LoW. Think this is heresy or that it could be fun?
[12:50:02] <Yuv422> hehe
[12:50:10] <Yuv422> how many speaking roles?
[12:50:25] <Coren_> 9 majors, abiout 40 bit parts.
[12:50:55] <Coren_> 10 majors if you want to do the Right Thing and provide for a female Avatar
[13:00:34] <Yuv422> hmm it's sounds like it is playing at the right speed but there is alot of distortion
[13:01:10] <Coren_> 10:1 it's mu-law
[13:01:50] <Coren_> Send me a bit if you want me to take a swing at it.
[13:01:57] <Yuv422> righto
[13:03:53] <Yuv422> my raw importer only has u-law
[13:04:09] <Yuv422> which sounds quite distorted
[13:04:15] <Yuv422> a-law sounds better
[13:04:23] <Yuv422> I think it's 19.2 KHz
[13:04:25] <Yuv422> not sure
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[13:29:05] <Yuv422> hi arma
[13:29:11] <Yuv422> hi armav
[13:29:16] <armav> hi
[13:30:06] <armav> i think nuvie needs an icon
[13:30:19] <armav> like an .ico file in windows
[13:30:22] <Yuv422> armav: I got my fm towns U6 today. :)
[13:30:27] <Yuv422> yeah
[13:30:37] <Yuv422> I have an icon that servus made for me
[13:30:44] <armav> cool
[13:30:53] <Yuv422> It's in the project
[13:30:58] <Yuv422> but it is a mac format
[13:31:16] <Yuv422> we've got the audio out of the data files too. ;)
[13:31:25] <armav> so are you gonna add fm towns support to nuvie? :)
[13:31:28] <Yuv422> just trying to get the proper encoding settings
[13:31:38] <Yuv422> hehe probably audio support
[13:31:42] <Yuv422> for conversations
[13:31:49] <Yuv422> and sound effects
[13:32:20] <Yuv422> but who actually has a copy of the fm towns game to play it. :(
[13:32:24] <armav> who did LB's voice?
[13:32:33] <Yuv422> have a guess. :)
[13:32:51] <armav> wow
[13:33:01] <armav> how much did it cost?
[13:33:25] <Yuv422> about $70 usd
[13:33:36] <Yuv422> which worked out to about $150 AUD
[13:33:42] <Yuv422> after postage etc
[13:35:50] <Coren_> I have much improved sound, now. Still sounds tincanish. And the voice acting is mediocre t best. :-)
[13:35:58] <Yuv422> hehe
[13:36:04] <Yuv422> what are your settings
[13:36:24] <Yuv422> was it 19.2KHz
[13:36:44] <Coren_> I'm currently missing with the sample linearity. And it sounds more like 14Kbps, though I'd need to check how the original sounds to be sure.
[13:36:58] <Coren_> Is it RG's voice?
[13:37:04] <Yuv422> I think so
[13:37:26] <armav> someone needs to reverse-engineer the sound code :)
[13:37:29] <Coren_> Then I can tweak it until it sounds like him. That would also explain the crappy voice acting. :-)
[13:37:38] <Yuv422> I read someware that the FM-towns had a 11Khz PCM audio channel
[13:37:58] <Coren_> No, it's higher that 11Khz for sure.
[13:38:21] <Yuv422> I always liked the way he said "indeed" in the serpent iles intro sequence. :)
[13:38:29] <Yuv422> isles
[13:39:18] <Coren_> Heh. If I culd pick *anyone* to play LB, it would *have* to be Patrick Stewart. For one, he's a true Thespian, so he can /do/ victorian english and not sound stupid. :-)
[13:41:36] <Yuv422> well I'm off to bed now
[13:41:50] <Yuv422> have fun mucking around with the sample.
[13:41:56] <Coren_> I will. :-)
[13:41:59] <Yuv422> let me know how it goes. :)
[13:42:04] <Yuv422> cya
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[14:09:24] <Coren_> Aha! Got it!
[14:09:43] <Coren_> I don't remember anyone /ever/ using one's complement signed samples before!
[14:11:17] <Coren_> 16Khz one's complement signed 8 bit samples.
[14:22:40] <SB-X> hmm
[14:22:50] <SB-X> good job
[14:22:52] * SB-X smiles and nods.
[14:26:18] <Coren_> Do you have the tools to covert?
[14:29:04] <SB-X> no
[14:29:16] <SB-X> I don't think so, anyway.
[14:29:33] <SB-X> unless sox works
[14:30:04] <Coren_> Sox doesn't help without a bit of C glue.
[14:30:14] <Coren_> I did exactly that, actually. :-)
[14:30:47] <Coren_> Lemme clean it up and give it to you.
[14:33:05] <SB-X> I'm only on ~24.4 dialup.
[14:33:11] <Coren_> #include <unistd.h>
[14:33:11] <Coren_> int main(int, char**)
[14:33:11] <Coren_> {
[14:33:12] <Coren_> char buf[8192];
[14:33:12] <Coren_> int len;
[14:33:13] <Coren_> while((len = read(0, buf, 8192)) > 0)
[14:33:13] <Coren_> {
[14:33:15] <Coren_> for(int i=0; i<len; i++)
[14:33:17] <Coren_> if(buf[i]&128)
[14:33:19] <Coren_> buf[i] = 128-buf[i];
[14:33:21] <Coren_> write(1, buf, len);
[14:33:23] <Coren_> }
[14:33:25] <Coren_> }
[14:33:27] <SB-X> Ah I thought you meant some samples :)
[14:34:07] <Coren_> Send the output of that into 'sox -r16000 -sb' to convert it to your fave.
[14:35:01] <Coren_> And RG still sucks as a voice actor. :-)
[14:35:22] <SB-X> Indeed!
[14:35:25] <SB-X> Put it on the table!
[14:35:50] <SB-X> thanks for the code
[14:37:58] <armav> how do you know the sample rate?
[14:38:12] <Coren_> Because I know RG's voice pitch. :-)
[14:38:53] <Coren_> And a nice, round 16Khz is much more likely than something like 15.68 or 16.21. :-)
[14:39:43] <SB-X> Tested it with some others? I find Chuck's voice more annoying.
[14:40:01] <Coren_> No, I got just the one sample.
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[19:49:23] * servus does a very good Shakespearean roll.
[19:49:53] <servus> (No, I didn't misspell 'role'; I meant that weird tongueplay, erm, yeah. *grin*)
[19:53:57] <servus> You could always put the REAL Lord British in the dungeon, and hire a hack for the throne-room job ;)
[19:54:18] * Coren_ smirks.
[19:54:43] <servus> Did you see the new shadows? They are fixed.
[19:54:56] <Coren_> Bravo.
[19:54:57] <servus> And I fixed the intersecting volume problem as well.
[19:55:20] <servus> Do you have any shots of your newest yet, or is it still in the mud stage? (The last one looked and played well!)
[19:55:47] <Coren_> You mean the one currently found in cvs?
[19:57:01] <Coren_> Notheing fresher than this, though I expect I'll have something sometime this week. I'm being mired down in nasties like file conversions and such-- little point of making an engine work if I have to desing worlds by entering coordinates and polygonal data by hand. :-)
[19:57:47] <servus> I made my own file format, and the plugin for 3dmax to export it, and it works, Mwuahahha>:)
[19:57:58] <Coren_> You can see an early prototype by checking out the new_engine version from cvs.
[19:58:27] <Coren_> Though that is not integrated in the game at all. It's just the lightmaps in a small two-room test.
[19:58:31] * servus . o O ( I believe that the severe difficulty of making a 3DMax plugin causes me inordinate excitement in the telling... I should clam up about it )
[19:58:57] <servus> Well, I'll wait for when you think it's ready for a screenshot
[19:59:10] <Coren_> Frankly, I'm not sure I appreciate why you'd go to the trouble. 3DS amx sucks hairy slugs through a paper straws from large, world scenes.
[19:59:53] <servus> Nah... Just use vis groups and hide what you're not working on, just like Worldcraft.
[20:00:33] <Coren_> Well, /I/ don't like it for that. I use either Worldcraft (for the rough work) or Quark (for detail work).
[20:00:40] <servus> I assume you think I'll have trouble creating potential visibility sets, but I'm not using a leak-based system so that's not a problem
[20:01:05] <Coren_> I don't need PVS. I use a pure portal engine, remember? :-)
[20:01:10] <servus> Pleh.
[20:01:17] <servus> I'm going to call you Duke Nukem Jr.
[20:02:01] <Coren_> There are great computationnal advantages to a pure portal engine; even if building the world data is a more complicated procedure because of that.
[20:02:25] <servus> Well, yes, infinite plane geometry is nice, but it's also icky. *grin*
[20:02:26] <Coren_> And I *like* the fact that I'm not restricted to euclidian geometry. :-)
[20:02:49] <Coren_> I'm going to put that to good use on Talorus. :-)
[20:03:04] <servus> For Talorus... I'm thinking of Xen from Half-Life.
[20:03:17] <Coren_> Never played it, strangely enough.
[20:03:57] <servus> http://www.halflife.host.sk/screenshots/single/c1a0e0029.jpg
[20:04:14] <Coren_> I still think that Talorus was /meant/ to be viewed as a three dimentional projection of concentric hypersphere surfaces. :-)
[20:04:22] <servus> (Those look suspiciously like Zorgs)
[20:04:37] <Coren_> Zorn.
[20:04:53] <servus> Bzxxxxttt. Errorz prozzezzing directz.
[20:04:58] <Coren_> Yep. Make 'em purple and give 'em big teeth and they are suspiciously familiar. :-)
[20:05:16] <servus> Why not reduce gravity and make it a cylic mobius strip? :)
[20:05:18] <Coren_> Did you read my earlier comment about voice acting? :-)
[20:05:24] <servus> Richard Garriot?
[20:05:30] <servus> Ian McKellan for Nystul!
[20:05:42] <Coren_> Yeah, right. Like I have the budget.
[20:05:48] * Coren_ chuckles.
[20:05:56] <Coren_> I can keep declining my dream team, though.
[20:06:08] <Coren_> Stewart for both LB and Lord Thibris...
[20:06:08] <servus> <- is a paid, professional voice actor. *grin*
[20:07:09] <Coren_> Kate Mulgrew *has* to do Miranda! :-) Hmmm. JEJ for Lord Morphious.
[20:07:21] <servus> This is getting creepy.
[20:07:47] <servus> Christopher Walken as the Time Lord? "Take this hourglass, or I'm going to rip your eyeballs out and feed 'em to my zorg"
[20:08:00] <Coren_> Hmmm. Maybe not. :-)
[20:08:45] <servus> I beat Ultima VII several times and I never ever met or even heard about the Time Lord until I cheated.
[20:09:44] <Coren_> At any rate; I'm toying with the idea. I'll see if I can muster enough volunteers to fill every part with decent voice and talent. Given that many big budget productions are unable to find even /decent/ actors, I doubt it.
[20:10:12] <servus> Well, this is hardly the design phase for a one man team to worry about gloss.
[20:11:10] <Coren_> I have a pretty good and versatile voice myself. I'm probably going to do the Talorid (except futurian) myself with some post processing; and I'll find myself one or two bit parts for my best "decisive leader" and "evil sith" voices. :-)
[20:11:54] <servus> Yes, a voice box and modulator, similar to Cher in that god awful newest song.. *grin* Cher for Slimy Endoplasmic Blob!
[20:12:37] <Coren_> Besides, there are three obstacles, besides lack of talent pool, against voiceovers which I doubt are surmountable.
[20:12:50] <servus> Huge filesize, for one.
[20:13:15] <Coren_> Nah. Voice compresses damn well with modern algorithms.
[20:13:24] <Coren_> (a) some of the dialog is downright stupid
[20:13:35] <servus> I'm good at that stuff. :)
[20:13:48] <Coren_> (b) Some of the dialog refer to the Avatar by proper name and would stop making sense otherwise
[20:14:20] <Coren_> and (c) It'd be hard to resist fixing (a) and not making a few other "improvements" along the way, something I want to shy away from.
[20:14:26] <servus> Hardly; s/$NAME$/Avatar/g
[20:15:07] <Coren_> No, for instance, there are cases where you can respond to "who are you" with either "$name" or "The Avatar [of Britannia]" with differing results.
[20:15:29] <Coren_> And the NPC would then address you appropriately.
[20:15:31] <servus> "Ahhh, it's good to meet you, *COUGHCOUGH*MUTTTER*!"
[20:15:49] <Coren_> LOL
[20:16:41] <Coren_> Well, it could be fixed with some rewriting; make sure the player is addressed by Avatar when apropriate or not at all otherwise, but it goes back to point (c) and avoiding direct address sometimes sound even more contrived.
[20:17:14] <Coren_> For instance, I think TTLG just *barely* missed making the Talorid alien enough.
[20:17:20] <servus> "Ah, pleased to meet you, $NAME$" -> "Ah, pleased to meet you."
[20:18:09] <Coren_> As far as alien speech is concerned I think nothing will ever beat the Orz.
[20:18:39] <servus> Alien speech? Speak normally, clamp your pitch to its normal range, and invert it so that you get the complementary pitch
[20:18:51] <servus> Then add sound effects such as random chirps and modulations.
[20:18:55] <Coren_> I mean textually. :-)
[20:19:12] <Coren_> You ever play The Ur-QUan Masters?
[20:19:20] <servus> I wish I had transcripts of that... And no, I have not./
[20:19:34] <Coren_> Actually, I have the transcripts somewhere.
[20:19:50] <servus> I could do Pręcor loth.
[20:20:07] <Coren_> But basically, it went (with a note from your "translator" that highlighted words were "best approximations")
[20:21:59] <Coren_> Oh, I am so *happy* to meet you! You must come and *play*! We come from *under*, not here *quick space*. When we *dance* together, then we become *same* and you *see*. You think we are *light* bubbles? It is so funny! *Dancing* is funny. We are *fingers* *poking* in slow *space*, not like you. But you *see* once we *dance*.
[20:22:34] <Coren_> They managed to be friendly, and creepy, and your brain kinda twists reading undertones to their communications. :-)
[20:22:41] <servus> Hah! How queer. What is that?
[20:23:26] <Coren_> That's basically a typical exchange with the Orz in that game. :-)
[20:23:44] <servus> Heh, I meant the Underworld transcripts:)
[20:23:59] <Coren_> Aaah. I definitely have those!
[20:24:07] <Coren_> Which part do you want? :-)
[20:24:32] <servus> Hmm, I'm not sure... I have a sore throat... :)
[20:24:57] <servus> I can't do anything too gutteral (such as Goblins or dwarves)... Your biggest challenge will be getting a girl interested in doing parts.
[20:25:54] <Coren_> Preferably more than once.
[20:25:57] <Coren_> s/once/one/
[20:26:30] <Coren_> Praecor Loth is rather a bit part. If you have a professional voice I'd rather give you a bigger part. :-)
[20:26:41] <Coren_> Baritone?
[20:26:58] <servus> Yes.
[20:27:26] <servus> I can do alto and an impressive falsetto (I do a fine Marvin the Martiand Mr. Hanky:)
[20:27:40] <servus> s/Martiand/Martian and
[20:28:57] <Coren_> Ooooh! I am so very an-gry!
[20:29:20] <servus> I don't understand! There was supposed to be an Earth-Shattering ka-boom!
[20:29:25] <Coren_> LOL. I found my bit part!
[20:29:32] <servus> Hmm?
[20:29:55] <Coren_> Elmster. The not-quite-courageous student stuck at the beginning of the Academy test. :-)
[20:30:58] <servus> Ohhh. I loved him! I was so upset when I beat the test and he was gone :-(
[20:31:11] <Coren_> Wanna do Zoranthus?
[20:31:39] <Coren_> I think my deep bass voice will go for Sentinel 868
[20:31:50] <servus> Ah, Pits of Carnage. I never really got a feel for him, but I could try.
[20:31:55] <servus> Sentinel?
[20:32:09] <Coren_> The ice golem garding the dam controls.
[20:32:12] <servus> Ahh.
[20:32:18] <servus> He was certainly a small part!
[20:32:31] <servus> His voice should be false... Like... rumbling rocks and grinding stones.
[20:33:18] <Coren_> I know. Perfect. He's got all of 8 lines, too!
[20:33:47] <Coren_> I like the idea of voiceovers, but I don't want to turn this into an ego trip either. :-)
[20:35:29] <servus> Since you seem to be heading for 98% new content with this version, it'll be a long time 'til you get to that stage.
[20:35:31] <Coren_> Heh. If you don't like Zorantus, you can always do Mokpo. Can you do a good schizophrenic? :-)
[20:36:04] <Coren_> Actually, no. The content is not going to be new for the most part; I've already automated most of the conversion of world data.
[20:36:08] <servus> Why do I always get the nuts? *grin*... The.... the.... the GOLDEN PATH... get AWAY, SHADOW! This... this.... this... THIS IS A DREAM!
[20:36:32] <Coren_> The maps only need a bit of manual tweaking to tie them together.
[20:36:47] <Coren_> Look at http://low.sf.net/quavatar.zip
[20:37:02] <servus> So you're not going for newly redesigned architecture?
[20:37:13] <Coren_> I have the entire castle and sewer complex in one map.
[20:37:58] <Coren_> Not at first; incremental changes is the key to not being overwhelmed. I'm going to make minor improvements here and there, to fix what were obvously limitations of the old engine when the intent was clear.
[20:38:20] <servus> I have already made nearly all of the architectural facets needs for a Castle British in 3D Max :)
[20:38:33] <Coren_> I think simply having better textures with the same geometry will be a major improvement already.
[20:39:26] <servus> Your map crashed Half-Life... Not as if I was expecting otherwise.
[20:39:31] <Coren_> Part of the prolem with brand new architecture is that some game issues may arise. Unless you are careful to maintain topology exactly and all changes are strictly cosmetic.
[20:39:42] <Coren_> It's meant for Q2. :-)
[20:40:07] <servus> Half-Life is modified Q2.
[20:40:41] <Coren_> "Modified" is the keyword here, methinks. :-)
[20:40:53] <Coren_> Lemme put up the .map so you can see it, at least.
[20:42:14] <Coren_> http://low.sf.net/britain.map Prolly should have compressed it, though. :-)
[20:42:18] <servus> I can compile that for Half-Life
[20:42:37] <servus> That's weird.
[20:42:38] <Coren_> Can it cope with the .wal textures?
[20:42:55] <Coren_> What is?
[20:42:59] <servus> Umm
[20:43:02] <servus> That's an HTML file.
[20:43:15] <servus> This is it for entity worldspawn [an internal server error occured]
[20:43:27] <Coren_> LOL
[20:43:40] <Coren_> .map was taken by the SF webserver as an IMAGEMAP!
[20:43:48] <Coren_> Lemme fix the extension
[20:43:48] <servus> Dohdoh.
[20:44:12] <Coren_> Can you deal with gzipped files?
[20:44:13] <servus> And no, I will have to compile the wals into a pak
[20:44:14] <servus> Yes.
[20:44:43] <Coren_> http://low.sf.net/britain.map,gz
[20:45:13] <Coren_> With a period and not a comma, obviously. :-)
[20:45:15] <servus> There, Half-Life Wad successfully compiled.
[20:46:02] <Coren_> Ack. SF still tries to mangle the .map. even though it's gzipped
[20:46:26] <servus> Same thing [an internal server error occured]
[20:46:30] <Coren_> http://low.sf.net/britain.gz
[20:46:32] <servus> Just name it foo :P
[20:46:37] <Coren_> This one works.
[20:47:02] <Coren_> I should get me half-life one of those days.
[20:47:02] <servus> Wow!!
[20:47:08] <servus> IE automatically un-GZ's it.
[20:48:01] <Coren_> "Yikes!" is more like it. IE and Outlook try to do too much without prompting. Why do you think Windows users are always plagued with trojans and virii?
[20:49:16] <servus> I used wget.
[20:49:36] <Coren_> Don't even need to exploit the numerous holes in their security; the user agents will gladly run malicious code. :-)
[20:49:42] <servus> Anyways, WorldCraft gives no errors upon loading but shows me a world with nothing in it =-/
[20:50:07] <Coren_> Ah. Use Quark. I think I have a few quark-specificities in this.
[20:50:10] * servus hand-reads the .map...
[20:50:18] <servus> I can't, I need to compile this for Half-Life.
[20:50:42] <Coren_> Quark does half-life.
[20:52:32] <servus> Map is supposed to be a standard format, why'd they screw it up =-/
[20:52:47] <Coren_> Ah, xquest will load the map if you remove the comments.
[20:52:59] <servus> Yes I'll sed out the comments
[20:55:05] <Coren_> Erm, we should probably move this chat to #low so as to not pollute the #nuvie logs more than we already did. :-)
[21:47:08] * Coren_ is away: Dinner at the in-laws. Ugh.
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