#nuvie@irc.freenode.net logs for 19 Jul 2005 (GMT)

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[06:10:59] <sbx> hi luteijn
[06:11:05] <sbx> whats up
[06:11:13] <luteijn> hi sbx.
[06:11:38] <luteijn> I found out how to set which color to be the 'key' (e.g. transparant) with perl-SDL
[06:12:26] <sbx> that's great... but I thought you already knew that
[06:12:48] <sbx> if you just set 0 to transparent in u6tiles.gif you get the same trouble as when you manually changed it, right?
[06:13:03] <luteijn> but that just makes sure you really get all the white go transparant, so it's not useful. I still wondering if the gif file maybe has 2 entries for white.
[06:13:33] <sbx> using the gimp's color selector says no
[06:13:44] <sbx> the person who made the gif just did it for display
[06:13:52] <luteijn> so e.g. color 0 and 39 are both FF FF FF; but gimp etc might say: ah the palette can be optimized..
[06:13:55] <sbx> proof that they could extract all the tiles from u6
[06:14:27] <sbx> the palette is only 234 colors
[06:14:43] <luteijn> and u6 uses all 256?
[06:14:46] <sbx> yeah
[06:14:53] <sbx> well, there are the animated colors
[06:15:05] <luteijn> gimp would probably also collapse those
[06:15:05] <sbx> i forgot how many rotate
[06:15:35] <luteijn> need to look at the actual gif file :) probably about 4 blues and 4 reds?
[06:16:22] <sbx> at least
[06:16:50] <luteijn> anyway, I need to create a expanded version of 'object_numbers.txt' what includes obj_nr, number of tiles/frames, size etc. so I made something to display the tiles in the right orientation, (depending on what I already have)
[06:17:19] <luteijn> anycompound objects that are bigger than 2x2?
[06:18:18] <sbx> doubtful
[06:18:31] <sbx> trying to think of those giant monoliths or any statues are
[06:18:34] <sbx> but I don't think so
[06:18:41] <sbx> there are compound objects, and multitile objects
[06:19:03] <luteijn> a doorway would be multitile, I guess, as you can make them as wide as you want
[06:19:18] <sbx> serpents, horses, ships are multiobject
[06:20:00] <luteijn> hmm the ship is 2x3, I'd probably want to make my window a little higher to display it properly.
[06:20:13] <sbx> higher?
[06:20:38] <luteijn> it's 32 by 512 at the moment
[06:21:15] <sbx> what do you mean?
[06:21:36] <luteijn> I display the tiles like this:
[06:21:46] <luteijn> 12569a
[06:21:57] <luteijn> 3478bc
[06:22:13] <luteijn> that would be three frames of a 2x2 object.
[06:22:32] <luteijn> I guess I should just post a picture ;)
[06:22:42] <sbx> oh, heh... i love your new meeting hall and story too (forgot to post about it)
[06:22:51] <sbx> a picture would help
[06:23:17] <sbx> now can I buy your hall before you begin your journey to find a bigger one?
[06:23:29] <sbx> leave the table
[06:23:57] <luteijn> James just rentes it from admiral British.. talk to him ;)
[06:24:14] <luteijn> crap, just xwd-ed to stdout...
[06:26:25] <sbx> Admiral British?
[06:26:43] <luteijn> example screenshot in http://luteijn.xs4all.nl/html/u6o/downloads/sample.xwd
[06:27:00] <sbx> How do I load an XWD?
[06:27:17] <luteijn> I hope you have something to display that.. 'xwud -in sample.xwd' would work usually
[06:27:30] <luteijn> maybe gimp also can grok it.
[06:27:34] <sbx> brb
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[06:41:20] <SB-X> ok
[06:41:22] <SB-X> luteijn: i looked at the picture
[06:41:24] <SB-X> what am I looking for
[06:42:20] <luteijn> well, you will see at the lower xterm what the size, number of frames etc is. The picture shows a simple object, with 4 frames (chest)
[06:43:11] <luteijn> a 2x2 object would have four tiles per frame,
[06:43:36] <luteijn> and will display in the way I ascii arted above
[06:43:58] <SB-X> ahh
[06:43:59] <SB-X> yeah
[06:45:07] <luteijn> the 'framer.pl' is both an exercise to see if I can display things properly, and a tool to help me get my objects.dat file improved. I think u6o just calls each tile a frame, so draws 2x2 objects just as a four part multiobject.
[06:47:32] <luteijn> so now I'm stepping through the tileset; maybe this afternoon I can make a first mapviewer ;)
[06:53:42] <luteijn> hmm the u6tiles.GIF just has an empty tile for the lowerpart of the clock :(
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[06:58:41] <luteijn> probably because it's animated. like the electric field.
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[07:01:52] <SB-X> :|
[07:03:16] <luteijn> the substitution tiles wil lhave to get their own .dat file I guess (gearworks, clock, bellows, water, saw etc)
[07:03:55] <SB-X> <SB-X> but there isn't anything that big
[07:03:55] <SB-X> <SB-X> even cyclops are only 2x2
[07:03:55] <SB-X> <SB-X> hmm, maybe dragons
[07:03:55] <SB-X> <SB-X> but I think they are multi-object
[07:03:55] <SB-X> <SB-X> oh, hydras are 3x3
[07:03:55] <SB-X> <SB-X> heh, in Nuvie you can even push dragons out of the way
[07:04:24] <luteijn> hydra's are big yes, and dragons might be in a cross only.. not sure.
[07:05:19] <luteijn> hmm the hydra tiles are not all together, so I guess it's a multi object
[07:06:03] <SB-X> for some reason my nuvie docs aren't the official nuvie docs, i dont even have that module downloaded
[07:06:26] <luteijn> suggest you merge them, so we all get more docs ;)
[07:06:39] <SB-X> most of these are random notes
[07:06:45] <luteijn> hmm even object_numbers.txt has two entries for the hydra (mouth and arms)
[07:07:11] <luteijn> so I guess 2 tiles high is enough for the framer :)
[07:07:41] <SB-X> couldve sworn hydra was 3x3
[07:07:48] <SB-X> i'll look at the code
[07:08:21] <luteijn> it is 3x3 on the screen, but for some reason it is split up (probably be cause the mouth has more frames than each of the arms
[07:08:44] <SB-X> that's probably it
[07:09:48] <SB-X> yeah
[07:09:53] <SB-X> see actors/U6ActorTypes.h
[07:10:03] <SB-X> and actors/U6Actor.h for the format of that table
[07:10:32] <SB-X> especially the tiles_per_frame
[07:11:02] <SB-X> eric created the table by hand
[07:11:17] <luteijn> I' probably reoding some of that work now ;)
[07:11:21] <luteijn> I'm
[07:13:03] <luteijn> :) '//does LB have a dead frame!? ;)
[07:13:43] <SB-X> been a while since I tried killing him
[07:14:33] <luteijn> I don't think there is a dead frame with purple clothes ;)
[07:15:47] <SB-X> nope
[07:15:51] <SB-X> you can kill LB in nuvie right now
[07:16:09] <SB-X> I just did and strangely enough, you can continue walking after dying.
[07:16:24] <SB-X> he turns into a peasant
[07:16:37] <luteijn> demasque ;)
[07:16:55] <SB-X> a peasant with a snake amulet
[07:16:55] <luteijn> anyway, my copy of nuvie doesn't seem to have combat; how did you kill him?
[07:16:59] <SB-X> heh
[07:17:04] <SB-X> oh, you have to cheat
[07:17:12] <SB-X> bring a cannon to him or bring him to a cannon
[07:17:14] <luteijn> oh set his hp
[07:17:22] <SB-X> yeah that's how you set someone's hp
[07:17:33] <SB-X> but you can't make it go up only down
[07:18:03] <SB-X> this is really bugged
[07:18:22] <luteijn> maybe you can use spam mennu to set his worktype to sleeping?
[07:18:29] <SB-X> if you keep hitting yourself (after being killed) you keep dying and leaving more bodies
[07:18:44] <luteijn> 1
[07:19:07] <SB-X> that should work in the original u6
[07:20:57] <luteijn> hmm I shot myself, got kal lorred, then was invisible..
[07:21:28] <SB-X> the set-to-sleep trick in nuvie makes the person freeze, but not change to sleeping frame
[07:21:49] <SB-X> but if you push them they start animating again
[07:22:05] <SB-X> but they are still asleep so if you talk to them it says No response. :)
[07:22:46] <luteijn> hey, the cannon hitting a wall effect is nice
[07:23:17] <SB-X> thanks
[07:23:39] <luteijn> now to move shamino in the balst radius..
[07:23:42] <SB-X> trying to go for the original look, but it's not exactly there
[07:24:12] <SB-X> oh, I forgot about kal lor
[07:24:18] <SB-X> it only happens when the avatar is killed
[07:24:41] <luteijn> hmm but I can't multikill my partymembers.
[07:24:48] <SB-X> multikill?
[07:25:17] <SB-X> ah
[07:25:18] <luteijn> well you said you could kill yourself over and over and leave multiple bodies. probably only if are an npc?
[07:25:35] <luteijn> the blast doesn't seem to be a hazard.
[07:25:51] <SB-X> no, it wasnt in u6 either
[07:26:10] <SB-X> the way to get the multikill bug is to be controlling the person killed
[07:26:19] <SB-X> i guess it doesnt teleport them to 0,0 then
[07:27:00] <SB-X> and you have to control them with alt-500 cheat (if you can use alt codes)
[07:27:19] <SB-X> party control cleans up properly
[07:27:35] <luteijn> hey; I shot myself, I got the kal lor message before the 'Pieter Killed' message
[07:27:49] <luteijn> and now everyone is invisible :)
[07:28:03] <SB-X> in fact, it's like you said, it can't be a party member
[07:28:05] <SB-X> hmm :)
[07:28:28] <luteijn> but not incorporeal.. :) probably lost track of what frame we should be
[07:28:37] <SB-X> you're actually hidden
[07:28:44] <SB-X> and not drawn at all
[07:29:00] <SB-X> it hides you when you die... but it's supposed to unhide you when you're resurrected
[07:29:32] <SB-X> as for the out of order messages, we don't have any way of putting them in the correct order yet
[07:31:30] <SB-X> did you figure out any of the tileflags?
[07:32:15] <SB-X> oh, the tileflags.txt in cvs doesn't give you the convenient tile-to-tileflags comparison
[07:32:46] <luteijn> didn't look yet. can you 'inspect' base tiles form within nuvie?
[07:32:59] <SB-X> look at their tileflags?
[07:33:21] <SB-X> or what do you mean
[07:33:22] <luteijn> yeah. and maybe tilenr etc
[07:33:49] <SB-X> no, I used to have a printf for it
[07:33:56] <SB-X> but it was a little annoying seeing output for everything
[07:35:17] <SB-X> but I do have the tileflag_data.txt I can send you
[07:35:24] <SB-X> originally from eric
[07:35:31] <luteijn> time to add something to monitor stdin. so you can modify your debuglevel on the fly.
[07:36:11] <luteijn> feel free to put the file somewhere I can get to it ;) or try dcc again..
[07:37:06] <SB-X> my free webspace disappeared :(
[07:37:39] <SB-X> try adding a printf to Map::look to print the tile data when a tile is looked at
[07:37:46] <luteijn> hmm nothing coming free with your new isp? or a local webserver like I have?
[07:38:01] <SB-X> hmm
[07:38:51] <SB-X> usually don't consider isp webhosting (or email) since it's gone when I change ISP, but for quick file access there's no reason not to use it
[07:39:19] <luteijn> I use my isp mail for things like file transfer, and once of emails ;)
[07:39:28] <luteijn> I don't think I put anything in the webspace..
[07:39:56] <SB-X> I'm also wondering how my X-Chat file explorer interface has changed.
[07:40:06] <luteijn> the shell access
[07:40:08] <SB-X> looks unfamiliar
[07:40:13] <SB-X> or a little changed
[07:40:19] <luteijn> . is handy sometimes
[07:40:31] <luteijn> hmm -:- DCC Unable to create connection: Interrupted system call
[07:40:33] <SB-X> i dont know any isp that gives shell access
[07:40:45] <SB-X> why didn't I think of email? :p
[07:41:46] <luteijn> SB-X luteijn@xs4all.nl
[07:42:04] <SB-X> ok
[07:42:19] <SB-X> is the hotmail one active? i saw it on your website
[07:42:46] <luteijn> yeah, but I never really check it anymore. too full to get anything large anyway.
[07:43:14] <SB-X> this one might get spammed after you put the address in the channel :)
[07:44:06] <luteijn> it is full of viagra adds anyway. so that's why I don't use it for anything but solicited mail :)
[07:46:20] <SB-X> sent
[07:46:39] <SB-X> with my custom avatar tiles
[07:47:57] <luteijn> hmm you're using some sort of firewall that blackholes packets send to ports where nothing is listening?
[07:48:29] <SB-X> what? I'm not using a firewall at all, my network settings are just wrong
[07:49:15] <luteijn> well if I trace route to you, it doesn't send back the appropriate message, so trace route keeps trying to trace further
[07:49:55] <SB-X> maybe my isp blocks it
[07:50:00] <luteijn> oops, your real name looks too much like those fake ones people that send me viagra adds use.. almost nixed your email along with the other crap ;)
[07:50:45] <SB-X> :\
[07:50:55] <luteijn> It does seem to get to your machine. but maybe that's still the ISPs, and it's doing some sort of nat there..
[07:50:56] <SB-X> good to know
[07:51:03] <SB-X> oh
[07:51:14] <SB-X> what is the ip?
[07:51:48] <luteijn>
[07:52:01] <SB-X> when I'm in windows other people can send DCC files
[07:52:39] <luteijn> yes. looks like you're using some kind of nat: look at this: -:- DCC GET ("tileflag_data.txt") request from
[07:52:39] <luteijn> SB-X[~sbx@adsl-209-30-117-149.dsl.tulsok.swbell.net
[07:52:39] <luteijn> []] 85.71 kb
[07:52:49] <SB-X> hmm I never tried traceroute since getting DSL, it's much faster :)
[07:53:18] <luteijn> see, irc client thinks you're at, so that's not going to work.
[07:53:39] <SB-X> i didn't think remote hosts would see that
[07:54:06] <luteijn> probably your windows irc client knows how to request NAT properly.
[07:54:37] <SB-X> it's just that windows networking is set up properly
[07:54:47] <luteijn> IRC probably is sending 'my_ip_is_<whatever>' somewher in the packet, and what ever is natting your connection isn't rewriting the packet.
[07:55:48] <SB-X> all I know is the IP address is set to the local number because DHCP wasnt working
[07:56:44] <SB-X> when I enable DHCP the internet is not accessable, but with these settings most things work
[07:56:49] <luteijn> how do you connect to the internet then? you have a router, or a bridge?
[07:56:59] <SB-X> just the dsl modem
[07:57:38] <SB-X> connected to eth0
[07:57:54] <SB-X> i set the modem's address as the gateway
[07:57:58] <luteijn> dsl 'modme' is usually a misnomer. some are actually routers, others more like a bridge... but what is making the connection, the dsl-box, or something on your own machine?
[07:58:08] <SB-X> the dsl-box
[07:58:16] <SB-X> then I just connect to it and get the ip
[07:58:55] <luteijn> so under windows it does give out an IP address to you? which one?
[07:59:14] <SB-X> in windows I get the correct ip address that people can use to talk to me
[07:59:31] <SB-X> can I privmsg you the routing table and ifconfig?
[07:59:41] <luteijn> yes
[08:00:22] <luteijn> ok now you're autoignored by my client.. better mail it, is easier to read too
[08:00:26] <luteijn> brb
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[08:00:43] <SB-X> hehe
[08:00:45] <SB-X> i hate that in bitchx
[08:01:14] <luteijn> I just got the table headers ;)
[08:01:27] <luteijn> enough to see it would be hard to read the actual table :)
[08:01:47] <luteijn> seems your adsl-box is a small router.
[08:01:54] <SB-X> mailed it
[08:02:33] <SB-X> I bet I'm supposed to use DHCP
[08:02:59] <luteijn> do you (vaguely) remember what ip you get in windows? 169.something?
[08:03:15] <SB-X> it varies
[08:03:22] <SB-X> 200, 160, 70
[08:03:31] <SB-X> 209*
[08:04:21] <luteijn> hmm can you telnet to (or use a web browser on it)? You might be able to see the adsl-box's settings
[08:04:33] <SB-X> yeah
[08:05:13] <SB-X> it has an extensive settings list, and diagnostics
[08:05:32] <SB-X> but the configurable options are limited to "login/disconnect" "get new ip"
[08:05:32] <luteijn> any settings for dhcp on it ? checki if it's active
[08:06:13] <SB-X> it uses PPoE
[08:06:20] <SB-X> PPPoE
[08:06:36] <SB-X> nothing about dhcp
[08:06:59] <luteijn> but IT is setting up that tunnel, not your machine, isn't it.
[08:07:05] <SB-X> yeah
[08:07:19] <luteijn> on my setup, I set up the tunnel myself, so my box gets the 'real' IP.
[08:07:40] <SB-X> I'm pretty sure the router is doing everything correctly too, it's just that I'm not communicating with it correctly from linux.
[08:08:05] <SB-X> but there is a connection configuration, so I'll look at that
[08:08:06] <luteijn> the dhcpclient on linux is working properly? or you have no way to test?
[08:08:14] <SB-X> i'm not using dhcp
[08:08:20] <SB-X> you think that's the problem?
[08:09:09] <luteijn> well we could try to see if you get an address then, that is forwarded properly by your adslbox (although I doubt it, I guess you need to use that windows firewall hole-punching protocol)
[08:09:32] <SB-X> windows firewall hole-punching protocol?
[08:09:35] <SB-X> hehe
[08:10:12] <luteijn> applications can register their ports with the firewall and it will 'tunnel' them through. of course this defeats the whole purpose..
[08:10:47] <luteijn> see man dhclient (if you have dhclient that is)
[08:11:36] <SB-X> i looked at the router's connection configuration
[08:11:55] <SB-X> most of these settings aren't interesting, except it does have DHCP Lease
[08:12:02] <SB-X> 10 minutes
[08:12:14] <SB-X> and "Let LAN device share Internet address?"
[08:12:33] <luteijn> probably you need that one to be set to true
[08:12:34] <SB-X> No, use private IP address; Yes, use public IP address
[08:12:38] <SB-X> it is
[08:12:57] <luteijn> then we're going to try to get your eth0 configured over DHCP
[08:13:11] <SB-X> thought so :\
[08:13:12] <luteijn> do you have 'dhclient'
[08:13:17] <SB-X> btw what's the difference between PPPoE and PPPoA?
[08:13:20] <SB-X> yeah
[08:13:30] <luteijn> one is over ethernet the other is over atm
[08:14:15] <SB-X> ok
[08:14:30] <SB-X> Slackware has a network configuration tool
[08:14:38] <SB-X> but I have dhclient
[08:14:53] <luteijn> if you run it (this might break your connection, so be prepared to reconfigure it back to what it was), do you get any results, or it just imes out. (maybe check the .conf file first to see if it is valid)
[08:14:53] <luteijn> /etc/dhclient.conf
[08:15:24] <SB-X> It's empty, I'll have to look at man dhclient.conf
[08:15:38] <luteijn> I'll send you my example.conf file.
[08:17:31] <SB-X> slackware netconfig says I do not have TCP/IP installed :)
[08:17:46] <luteijn> haha
[08:18:23] <SB-X> it's because i didn't run it from /
[08:18:36] <SB-X> if [ ! -r bin/telnet ]; then...
[08:18:51] <luteijn> you probably don't need to actually uncomment anything in the config file, so your empty one would be just as good
[08:19:01] <SB-X> oh?
[08:19:06] <SB-X> ok
[08:19:12] <SB-X> there is also a sample in the man page
[08:19:32] <luteijn> you can use the config file to override/amend the lease you get from the server
[08:19:45] <luteijn> but let's first try to get a lease ;)
[08:19:48] <SB-X> ah
[08:20:03] <SB-X> how does it even know where the server is?
[08:20:08] <luteijn> broadcasts
[08:20:15] <SB-X> oi
[08:20:22] <luteijn> just try dhclient eth0
[08:20:47] <luteijn> maybe dhclient -d eth0 for more debug
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[08:24:31] <luteijn> timed out trying to get lease?
[08:24:39] <EsBee-Eks> eek
[08:24:47] <EsBee-Eks> that didnt work did it?
[08:24:54] <EsBee-Eks> I ran /etc/rc.d/rc.inet1 to get the old configuration back.
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[08:25:11] <luteijn> did dhclient give any output?
[08:25:36] <EsBee-Eks> it gave a bunch of DHCPDISCOVER on eth0 to messages (different ports and intervals)
[08:25:44] <EsBee-Eks> then No DHCPOFFERS received.
[08:25:50] <EsBee-Eks> No working leases in persistent database - sleeping.
[08:26:06] <EsBee-Eks> that broadcast looks a little too broad to me
[08:26:12] <EsBee-Eks> but I dont know
[08:26:18] <luteijn> so appears the router was (no longer) functioning as a DHCP server.
[08:26:40] <luteijn> no broadcast is fine. It has NO idea what its IP address is.
[08:26:48] <EsBee-Eks> oh, not even network
[08:27:47] <luteijn> nope, zero configuration. but appears the adsl box is not answering its calls for help
[08:28:27] <EsBee-Eks> LAN DHCP Server Enabled true
[08:28:41] <EsBee-Eks> DHCP Leases Allocated 0
[08:28:45] <EsBee-Eks> DHCP Leases Available 1
[08:29:31] <luteijn> try running tcpdump -i eth0 & to see if anything is send by the adsl box.
[08:30:02] <EsBee-Eks> yeah
[08:30:07] <EsBee-Eks> even something with BOOTP/DHCP
[08:30:11] <EsBee-Eks> but i dont understand the output
[08:30:27] <EsBee-Eks> keeps repeating that
[08:30:47] <luteijn> well now there would be lots of traffic, but while you are running dhclient ?
[08:30:49] <EsBee-Eks> and messages containing zelazny.freenode.net
[08:30:53] <EsBee-Eks> oh
[08:31:00] <EsBee-Eks> yeah I'd better try that
[08:31:31] <EsBee-Eks> btw looks like my netmask is set wrong
[08:31:32] <EsBee-Eks> here goes
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[08:35:02] <luteijn> any thing else besides Bootp/dhcp requests?
[08:35:16] <EsBee-Eks> i guess i didnt get disconnected this time
[08:35:26] <EsBee-Eks> there was something...
[08:35:36] <luteijn> <EsBee-Eks> here goes
[08:35:36] <luteijn> -:- SignOff EsBee-Eks: #nuvie ("casts gate travel")
[08:35:36] <luteijn> -:- EsBee-Eks [~sbx@adsl-209-30-117-149.dsl.tulsok.swbell.net] has joined
[08:35:36] <luteijn> #nuvie
[08:35:36] <luteijn> <luteijn> any thing else besides Bootp/dhcp requests?
[08:35:55] <EsBee-Eks> 03:31:55.671558 IP > icmp 72: echo request seq 1
[08:36:01] <EsBee-Eks> between the 5th and 6th request
[08:36:03] <EsBee-Eks> probably not related
[08:36:29] <luteijn> might be, looks like the box is trying to figure out if .2 is still alive
[08:36:39] <EsBee-Eks> heh
[08:36:47] <EsBee-Eks> yeah, .2 is asking for an ip address!
[08:36:54] <luteijn> so maybe it needs to fail the ping a few times to reactivate the dhcp server?
[08:37:08] <EsBee-Eks> on each request the activity light on the router lights up
[08:37:17] <luteijn> your dhcp requests come from or from ?
[08:37:31] <EsBee-Eks> i dont know, that dhcp leases available 1 tells me it's just waiting for me to get it
[08:37:35] <EsBee-Eks>
[08:37:45] <EsBee-Eks> .bootpc
[08:38:01] <luteijn> okay so it might think "Hey, I was just talking to this .2 guy.. is he still there?'
[08:38:21] <luteijn> " If not, then I might need to change back to dhcp mode."
[08:39:01] <EsBee-Eks> should I configure dhclient.conf with send options?
[08:39:16] <luteijn> you could try unplugging from the adsl box for a bit, maybe even resetting it, and then trying the dhclient again. once it has started running, plug back the network cable.
[08:39:52] <EsBee-Eks> yeah, i could do that
[08:39:53] <luteijn> I think sending stuff on network might have triggered the adsl box to work in a different mode.
[08:39:56] --- EsBee-Eks is now known as SB-X
[08:40:06] <SB-X> but it still says dhcp is active
[08:40:18] <luteijn> you could dialin at the same time to be online while experimenting
[08:40:38] <SB-X> i don't have that account anymore :p
[08:40:42] <wjp> that isn't a 'free for private use' IP
[08:40:49] <SB-X> yeah
[08:41:20] <luteijn> I was too lazy to type the 168 :)
[08:41:54] * wjp scrolls up; ah, ok :-)
[08:42:08] <luteijn> doesn't really matter to the discussion anyway. tcpdump confirms you're sending the bootp packets, so we need to get your adsl box to respond..
[08:42:21] <luteijn> It doesn't have a debug log, I guess?
[08:42:27] <SB-X> the router?
[08:42:38] <SB-X> how long do you think it needs to be disconnected?
[08:43:10] <luteijn> hmm your lease time is set to 10 minutes so that might be a good start, but if you power cycle it, it might be quicker.
[08:43:31] <luteijn> so try that first :)
[08:43:37] <SB-X> completely unrelated, opera displays the exultbot's logs better than firefox
[08:43:48] <SB-X> power cycle it?
[08:44:10] <SB-X> i found a log
[08:44:30] <luteijn> ah, does it say it got the dhcp requests and is ignoring it for 'reason x'
[08:44:54] <luteijn> (power cycle it --> turn off then on again to force a reset)
[08:44:59] <SB-X> ah k
[08:45:04] <SB-X> i dont think it has anything recent
[08:45:18] <SB-X> so, n
[08:45:19] <SB-X> no*
[08:46:20] <luteijn> Ok, suggest you deconfigure eth0's fixed IP by running the dhclient (and keeping it running), then reset the adsl box. when it eventually comes back, it might be listening for bootp requests again.
[08:46:42] <luteijn> if dhclient times out while still booting your adsl, just restart it.
[08:47:25] <luteijn> it might take a while for the dsl router to line sync so don't give up too soon.
[08:48:04] <luteijn> (but more than 10 minutes for the whole test is probably not needed, if it still doesn't respond to dhcp, you may need to take a closer look at what windows is doing to get a lease.
[08:48:25] <SB-X> i'll brb
[08:48:27] <-- SB-X has left IRC ("casts gate travel")
[08:48:28] <luteijn> it might just fail and decide to just use a bogus address, which the router than adjusts too
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[09:00:39] <SB-X> that didn't change anything
[09:01:23] <SB-X> i also edit slackware's config to see what it does automatically, no change
[09:01:47] <SB-X> but thanks for helping pieter
[09:01:57] <luteijn> so we have to check how windows does it. it might not actually use dhcp, but some sort of windows auto-ip thingy
[09:02:24] <SB-X> I don't want to reboot yet.
[09:02:39] <SB-X> you think adding anything to dhclient.conf will help?
[09:02:45] <luteijn> when you find yourself back in windows, try ipconfig /all Maybe it's setting up its own tunnel to your isp.
[09:02:54] <SB-X> alright
[09:03:03] <SB-X> good idea
[09:03:31] <SB-X> send dhcp-client-identifier 1:0:a0:24:ab:fb:9c;
[09:03:40] <SB-X> is that equivalent to DHCP Hostname, and do I need that?
[09:04:06] <luteijn> eh if anything, you ought to put your mac address there :)
[09:04:36] <SB-X> i can get that from the router config screen
[09:05:20] <luteijn> well but the router would just get it from the ethernet frame. you only need to change it if you e.g. get a new card, but the server is hardcoded to listening only for requests originated by your old card.
[09:06:04] <luteijn> did you have to change our mac address to something sepcial in windows? I doubt it, as that just causes more pople to have to call the helpdesk
[09:06:11] <SB-X> nah
[09:06:19] <SB-X> there was no configuration in windows
[09:06:51] <SB-X> well very little, but there was also very little configuration needed to get it to this point in slackware :)
[09:07:07] <luteijn> what's the brand /type of your adsl-box? maybe there's something on inet about why it is ignoring your dhcprequests
[09:07:35] <SB-X> Speedstream 5100
[09:08:54] <luteijn> lots of articles about it, I'll see if I can find anything useful ;)
[09:09:13] <SB-X> lanadmin: Logged in to
[09:09:32] <SB-X> the log says that after i connect to it
[09:09:47] <luteijn> it should have said 'from' I guess.
[09:10:03] <luteijn> According to this you have the 'b' version, which has build in pppoe
[09:11:53] <SB-X> I can compare the Statistics, and Log pages from when it connects from linux to when it connects from XP.
[09:15:48] <luteijn> would be interesting to check the network traffic when windows connects (e.g. run ethereal, then connect the network cable)
[09:16:10] <SB-X> as a last resort
[09:16:20] <SB-X> never ran ethereal in windows
[09:16:51] <luteijn> http://www.portforward.com/efficient/5100-dhcp.htm does your interface look anything like that?
[09:17:05] <SB-X> i ran it in linux with realplayer once to try and get a video stream :)
[09:18:26] <SB-X> no
[09:18:31] <SB-X> and the address is
[09:18:41] <SB-X> it doesn't require any login
[09:18:51] <SB-X> but for some options you need the modem access code
[09:20:27] <luteijn> http://www.dslreports.com/faq/sbc/3.1%20Speedstream%205100 explains how to put it in bridge mode so you can set up the tunnel yourself
[09:21:08] <SB-X> thanks
[09:21:14] <SB-X> the light explanation is helpful :)
[09:21:27] <SB-X> I had an idea of what they meant, but wasn't sure.
[09:22:59] <SB-X> then I'd have to run a PPPoE client?
[09:23:36] <SB-X> and it says bridge mode is for a non-pppoe network
[09:24:30] <SB-X> don't think I'll do that
[09:24:31] <luteijn> well it will just bridge you ethernet over adsl.
[09:25:03] <luteijn> so you can set up a ppoe, but I guess it assumes that you'd want to use its build in pppoe if it's needed
[09:25:29] <SB-X> would hate to change that since everything is working fine (mostly) now
[09:26:07] <luteijn> yeah, except that it's not forwarding ports properly for you.
[09:26:32] <luteijn> what version of firmware is on your adsl-box?
[09:28:23] <SB-X> Software Version
[09:31:40] <SB-X> What do you use /usr/local for?
[09:32:19] <luteijn> local installations.
[09:32:32] <SB-X> define local installations :)
[09:32:53] <luteijn> at the moment only u6o_client :)
[09:33:03] <SB-X> oh
[09:33:14] <wjp> often for things you install without using the package management system
[09:33:15] <luteijn> oh and TERM::ReadKey
[09:33:18] <SB-X> Isn't the comman-usage/standard to put installations that don't fit the distributions package format there?
[09:33:22] <SB-X> what wjp said
[09:33:40] <SB-X> But the traditional/old usage was actually for local things.
[09:33:42] <luteijn> well both of those I installed without using the package system ;)
[09:33:48] <SB-X> there ya go
[09:34:18] <SB-X> i just wondered because I don't seem to have any kind of system regarding that
[09:34:39] <SB-X> and /usr/local isn't on it's own partition
[09:34:40] <luteijn> well you could put nuvie there
[09:34:49] <SB-X> nuvie is in /home/sbx/build/nuvie
[09:35:15] <luteijn> the idea is that if you upgrade your system you can put the old local disk back in.
[09:35:24] <wjp> the disadvantage of installing things with prefix /usr/local is of course that you lose track of what file belongs to what program
[09:35:48] <SB-X> if you manually install them in /usr you get the same thing
[09:36:00] <SB-X> especially if you remove the build directory
[09:36:02] <wjp> well, yes, but I never do that :-)
[09:36:17] <SB-X> you are well organized
[09:36:21] <SB-X> tjat
[09:36:24] <SB-X> that's good
[09:36:38] <wjp> I'm currently using a system called 'graft' here, where I install things into ~/pkgs/name-of-package, and then symlink things into ~/bin, ~/include, ~/lib, etc...
[09:37:07] <SB-X> that sounds like stow
[09:37:12] <SB-X> except it uses /usr/local instead of ~
[09:37:12] <wjp> yeah, they're similar
[09:37:29] <wjp> the destination directory is of course configurable :-)
[09:37:35] <SB-X> oh
[09:37:39] <SB-X> yeah, I guess it doesnt care
[09:37:41] <wjp> but since 'here' is at work, I don't have access to /usr/local :-)
[09:37:50] <SB-X> you don't?
[09:37:53] <wjp> (write access, anyway)
[09:37:55] <SB-X> what do they use it for?
[09:37:58] <SB-X> ah
[09:38:12] <luteijn> I try to use packages for almost anything, and development stuff is either under ~luteijn/devel or if I'm not doing any devel on it in /usr/local (etc)
[09:38:30] <SB-X> do you frequently build your own packages when one isn't available?
[09:39:10] <luteijn> ah, my copies of ultima's 1 2 3 have arrived. I wonder if I can get the 5.25" disks read in..
[09:39:28] <SB-X> I don't know why my /home is 9.2GB. I'm the only user, and all my data is stored elsewhere.
[09:39:32] <SB-X> heh
[09:39:39] <luteijn> I don't make my own packages; if it's not available I would put it in local and compile myself..
[09:39:45] <SB-X> well, I'd imagine you have to have a 5.25" disk drive :)
[09:39:51] <SB-X> ah k
[09:39:57] <luteijn> I might have one somewher under the floorboards.
[09:40:19] <SB-X> a u5 to u7 conversion would be nice
[09:40:21] <luteijn> you probably asked your system to be set up as a desktop.
[09:40:39] <SB-X> slackware doesnt have that kind of install option :p
[09:40:50] <SB-X> you have to run fdisk yourself
[09:41:08] <luteijn> I mostly got them to get the licences anyway, I guess I can get the files from internet.
[09:41:09] <SB-X> i just thought I'd put more in /home, because in my other box it quickly filled up
[09:41:24] <luteijn> well you can always rearrange it
[09:41:26] <SB-X> then I decided to put the data on a shared fat32 anyway
[09:41:41] <SB-X> and not the fat32 is filling up and I wished I had more space for another one :)
[09:41:51] <SB-X> and now*
[09:42:08] <SB-X> with parted?
[09:42:18] <luteijn> suggest you make a new /home on another partiton, and then copy the old one there, then you can reformat the 9.2 partion
[09:42:19] <SB-X> afraid I'll lose/corrupt some files
[09:42:32] <SB-X> hmm
[09:42:34] <luteijn> mkdir /home2
[09:42:45] <luteijn> cp -aR /home /home2
[09:42:47] <SB-X> yeah
[09:42:58] <luteijn> that wouldn't corrupt anyhting
[09:43:17] <wjp> -a already implies -R, by the way
[09:43:18] <SB-X> -a includes -R
[09:43:21] <wjp> :-)
[09:43:28] <luteijn> then you umount /home; remove the directory/mountpoint and rename the home2
[09:43:28] <SB-X> what wjp said
[09:44:02] <luteijn> yeah i'm too used to systems that don't have -a and have to use -R and -p and probably something else ;)
[09:44:07] <SB-X> I may even have some free unpartitioned space left.
[09:44:18] <SB-X> unfilesystem'ed I mean
[09:44:35] <luteijn> in a pinch you can always temporarily use your swap partition as a holding area ;)
[09:45:33] <SB-X> probably have too much swap space
[09:46:56] <luteijn> I have 512 MB of swap space, but that's just because I want to be able to steal some of it for temp usage if needed. e.g when computer dies again.
[09:47:24] <SB-X> 896.56MB
[09:50:11] <SB-X> what kind of fs do you use?
[09:50:19] <luteijn> ext-3
[09:50:34] <SB-X> I was afraid that was not stable enough.
[09:51:01] <SB-X> I use XFS for /usr and /home but even that I wasn't sure of so I used ext2 for /.
[09:51:51] <SB-X> /var is XFS too
[09:52:06] <luteijn> didn't have problems with ext3 yet. except when my disk crashed the other day, but that was probably due to shoddy hardware and running too long (years) to hot.
[09:54:26] <SB-X> can only hope the hardware is good
[09:54:51] <SB-X> you're not running hot anymore, are you? what with the fans heard throughout the house
[09:54:57] <luteijn> well I guess I should invest in a proper scsi system, and a airco'ed server room ;)
[09:55:27] <SB-X> liquid coolant
[09:55:51] <luteijn> well the fan is just the powersupply fan; there's no casefans I might need to add some to increas flow around the disk bays
[09:56:29] <SB-X> mine is really quiet with 3 fans
[09:56:37] <SB-X> as long as the cover is on
[09:57:00] <luteijn> I think the powersupply ought to slow down the fan, but isn't
[09:58:06] <luteijn> If I manually stop the fan it's nice and quiet. I guess I'll be in the market for a more silent powersupply
[09:58:41] <SB-X> oh
[09:58:46] <SB-X> any switches on it?
[09:59:30] <luteijn> yes, there's one. But it's broken, if I use it, the powersupply fan slows down, but the powersupply also doesn't work anymore ;)
[09:59:50] <luteijn> and that slider that says 230 115; I think it's not smart to touch that..
[10:00:53] <SB-X> do you know how the U6 potion effect is done?
[10:01:17] <luteijn> not sure if I even remember what it is. a sound effect?
[10:01:26] <SB-X> just thinking of getting my webspace up, then I'll post pictures of it
[10:01:33] <SB-X> no sorry, the visual effect
[10:01:38] <SB-X> colors the screen
[10:01:54] <SB-X> maybe xor's the pixel colors
[10:02:12] <luteijn> let me try it in the original
[10:02:45] <SB-X> i have a picture comparison
[10:03:00] <SB-X> now... where is my webspace...
[10:04:10] <SB-X> geocities? :p
[10:06:00] <luteijn> which potion? all of them or just some?
[10:06:05] <SB-X> white or black
[10:06:42] <SB-X> don't go to too much trouble; you can look at the pictures without pausing the game or anything
[10:07:40] <luteijn> black becomes purple..
[10:10:42] <luteijn> pictures not send yet ?
[10:11:49] <SB-X> just mailed them now
[10:14:03] <luteijn> the tile flags might have a movement cost in them somewhere?
[10:15:37] <SB-X> that would be great
[10:15:52] <SB-X> otherwise we have to hardcode it by tilenumber
[10:15:54] <luteijn> let's see what happens if I subtract the two images from eachother. or xor them or whatever.
[10:16:00] <SB-X> ok
[10:16:05] <SB-X> havn't tried anything like that myself
[10:16:45] <luteijn> not sure how I'm going to go about doing it, let's see if the gimp has any options
[10:17:19] <SB-X> doesn't perl have any magic for it? :)
[10:17:27] <SB-X> well, guess it isn't text
[10:17:33] <SB-X> i mean, no, it isn't text
[10:17:51] <luteijn> I could decode the gifs in perl, but if there's a standard thingy in gimp, I'd rather not.
[10:19:48] <SB-X> the gimp options probably aren't obviously named
[10:22:40] <luteijn> Ok seems to be promising
[10:23:28] <luteijn> appears not all colours are treated the same.
[10:23:49] <luteijn> probably those used in the 'gui' are left alone
[10:24:53] <SB-X> that's as far as I got, that not all colors are swapped or rotated the same
[10:26:07] <luteijn> would a potion on the floor change color, or stay the same (like the ones in inventory)
[10:26:11] <SB-X> it's a "lossy" change :)
[10:26:24] <SB-X> i assume it would change
[10:28:11] <SB-X> yeah they all change
[10:28:20] <luteijn> so it's not a palette trick, but soething done to the map only?
[10:28:48] <SB-X> can't it still be a palette trick?
[10:28:57] <SB-X> if they don't update the rest of the display
[10:29:12] <luteijn> eh, it's a vga game
[10:29:47] <SB-X> sorry, I'm thinking of in terms of how nuvie does it :)
[10:30:09] <luteijn> the black hair changes into a purple which is about 100% 33% 100%.
[10:30:26] <SB-X> anyway, yeah they could take a pixel from the map, modify it, and replot it
[10:30:53] <SB-X> don't forget yuv transformations :)
[10:31:30] <SB-X> not all black changes
[10:31:52] <SB-X> that's the other thing I realized, not only does it modify certain colors, but it only modifies certain instances of them!
[10:31:54] <luteijn> well the black of the avatar is probably special black as it can go blue and red
[10:32:04] <SB-X> so its not really color but based on the specific pixel
[10:32:09] <luteijn> so it has a separate palette entry
[10:32:17] <SB-X> i think the black outline of the avatar is the same as most black outlines
[10:32:25] <SB-X> and any black can go blue and red
[10:32:50] <SB-X> but you might check the black on the bushes
[10:32:54] <luteijn> hmm yes , or everyone would change color at the same time
[10:33:17] <SB-X> give dupre a black potion and only he goes invis
[10:33:30] <SB-X> is the black outline of the bushes different from the black detail pixels
[10:34:11] <SB-X> ugh
[10:34:16] <SB-X> forgot about gimp's "optimized palette"
[10:34:21] <luteijn> I think u6 can modify tiles by doing a search and replace based on palette entry.
[10:34:31] <SB-X> yes
[10:34:41] <luteijn> you probably should take screenshots from unscaled surface (or point scaled) too.
[10:34:54] <SB-X> we'll probably do it on the map layer rather than per tile
[10:35:06] <luteijn> or it might antialias and slightly modify the color
[10:35:14] <SB-X> ey
[10:35:19] <luteijn> suggest you make a test tile
[10:35:20] <SB-X> but how do I keep the original palette?
[10:35:29] <SB-X> the gimp probably stores all blacks as one index
[10:35:38] <SB-X> the gimp or any program I use to capture
[10:36:12] <luteijn> make a tileset-slice with say 9 colors per tile
[10:36:14] <SB-X> didn't think of that when taking the picture :)
[10:36:28] <SB-X> hmm
[10:36:39] <luteijn> then spam 256/9 of them spread them out (or use map editor)
[10:36:56] <SB-X> i don't know how to make a tile :)
[10:37:13] <luteijn> you don't?
[10:37:26] <SB-X> not in U6's format
[10:37:48] <luteijn> well you don't need to, just hack loadtiles()
[10:38:00] <luteijn> and learn from there
[10:38:00] <SB-X> oh
[10:38:13] <SB-X> i could make the tile there
[10:38:24] <luteijn> well tyou'd still need to make a u6 file
[10:38:34] <luteijn> because nuvie doesn't have the effect
[10:39:12] <SB-X> what are we trying to accomplish?
[10:39:29] <SB-X> there are plenty of colors to sample in the pictures
[10:39:44] <luteijn> but you don't know what their index is.
[10:40:20] <SB-X> let me see if dosbox will dump a screenshot
[10:40:22] <luteijn> if we can get a mosaic of all 256 colors on the screen, then trigger the effect, it will all be much clearer
[10:40:33] <SB-X> yeah
[10:40:47] <luteijn> screen shot might already pack the palette..
[10:41:46] <luteijn> hmm 16x16 tiles don't fit, so you'll need to put 4 colors per tile.
[10:53:51] <SB-X> ughx2... "You should be aware that SBC Yahoo accounts only get ad-supported Geocities web space, just like everyone else's free accounts."
[10:54:14] <SB-X> i might as well get no "free" webspace :)
[10:54:29] <luteijn> good thing I have an adblocker (just like everyone else? )
[10:54:40] <SB-X> that's from http://www.dslreports.com/faq/5219
[10:55:03] <SB-X> opera blocks their annoying ads
[10:55:35] <SB-X> but have you looked at U6O's page in firefox?
[10:55:40] <SB-X> it has a tall vertical ad on the right side
[10:56:28] <luteijn> yeah I can block that, but it didn't collapse the bar
[10:57:04] <SB-X> firefox does say it blocked a popup
[10:57:08] <luteijn> 'show only this frame' helps.
[10:57:24] <SB-X> I just upgraded firefox for the first time in a while. It's looking more like IE now.
[10:57:31] <SB-X> at least, the layout
[10:57:40] <SB-X> But more advanced.
[10:58:23] <SB-X> to say nothing of themes, and the way pages are displayed
[10:58:39] <SB-X> but just look at their History
[10:59:00] <SB-X> I also noticed that KDE's file browser looks like XP's.
[10:59:09] <SB-X> with the shortcuts on the left
[10:59:10] <luteijn> I wish I had FF on my pda, the explorer on it sucks.
[10:59:36] <SB-X> what is the pda and what does it have?
[10:59:49] <SB-X> firefox is really good, so I think I'm going to start using it more
[10:59:57] <SB-X> usually use Opera
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[11:11:20] <luteijn> switched os?
[11:11:28] <SB-X> not yet
[11:11:31] <SB-X> changed window manager
[11:12:01] <luteijn> ah, why did you have to lose session for that?
[11:12:21] <SB-X> i don't know what im doing
[11:12:43] <SB-X> I had XFCE running with XDM
[11:12:50] <SB-X> if I kill the wm it restarts
[11:13:00] <SB-X> how else can I do it?
[11:13:22] <SB-X> i did "init 3", changed the wm, and then "startx"
[11:15:04] <luteijn> some window managers can exec another one. oftne X is set up to end if the last client in xsession file ends; so make that something small like xeyes, or xbiff. then start the wm as one of the earlier clients, and you can kill it and start a new one
[11:16:26] <SB-X> xconsole?
[11:16:48] <SB-X> XFCE also includes a session-manager and other tools
[11:17:33] <luteijn> I just use the mwm from my envizex. or sometimes fvwm2 :)
[11:18:03] <SB-X> i could tell it was some kind of simple wm
[11:18:05] <SB-X> thought maybe twm
[11:19:20] <luteijn> Oh I have twm on the envizex too, and th HP vue/rx. but as I only have 256 colors, I tend not to use those
[11:19:29] <SB-X> but xfce was capturing my keys (couldnt ctrl-F5 to get a ss in dosbox)
[11:19:37] <SB-X> oh
[11:19:40] <SB-X> tried metacity?
[11:20:24] <luteijn> nope. Anyway X is just aconvenient way to run lots of terminal emulators :)
[11:21:04] <SB-X> and firefox?
[11:21:13] <SB-X> i like having a clock at least
[11:21:23] <SB-X> dosbox still wont get a screenshot
[11:21:31] <SB-X> Can't open dir capture for capturing Screenshot
[11:21:33] <luteijn> running it under x?
[11:21:49] <luteijn> strace it to find out where this capture dir is supposed to be
[11:21:57] <luteijn> or look in the config first
[11:22:18] <luteijn> xwd would work to make a dump..
[11:23:22] <SB-X> yep
[11:23:23] <SB-X> capture
[11:23:35] <SB-X> will xwd optimize the palette?
[11:24:28] <luteijn> probably not, but dosbox might have already done that
[11:25:19] <luteijn> as it probably asks X to allocate a color, and X says ' hmm black AGAIN, here's the previous one allocated, reuse that
[11:25:36] <SB-X> yeah...
[11:26:35] <SB-X> hmm
[11:26:52] <luteijn> so that's why I suggested using a mosaic. u6 still knows about the palette and uses indices into it, not rgb values
[11:27:05] <SB-X> it's different because dosbox writes the screenshot directly
[11:27:15] <SB-X> i can still use the mosaic tiles
[11:27:19] <luteijn> so you probably would see several blacks, whites etc in it, and not all of them would get treated the same.
[11:27:26] <SB-X> but now the gimp says there are 256 colors :)
[11:27:50] <SB-X> and the screen capture is unscaled even though dosbox was
[11:28:12] <luteijn> good, dosbox probably creates the dump from the internal framebuffer ;)
[11:29:12] <SB-X> the black in the bushes is 207
[11:29:28] <SB-X> i'll send you these
[11:29:44] <luteijn> 'kay.
[11:30:52] <SB-X> sent
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[11:31:22] <Yuv422> hi
[11:31:22] <luteijn> hi Yuv
[11:31:25] <SB-X> hi
[11:31:30] <Yuv422> hi guys
[11:31:58] <Yuv422> how's it going?
[11:32:31] <SB-X> fine, pieter is looking at the white potion visual effect to see how it's done
[11:32:35] <luteijn> trying to do lots of things at the same time.. see the log (if you can make sence of it)
[11:32:48] <SB-X> you can answer his questions about multitile actors and objects :)
[11:33:24] <luteijn> I think I understand enough of it for the purpose of the u6o map viewer :)
[11:33:54] <luteijn> as the protocol has no notion of 2x2 actors
[11:34:01] <Yuv422> hehe I'd have to refresh my memory
[11:34:21] <Yuv422> it has been awhile since I touched that area of nuvie
[11:34:37] <SB-X> the log is full of my networking tech-support spam too
[11:34:58] <luteijn> the tileflags thing sbx had is useful too, as it seems to match the u6tiles.GIF almost perfectly
[11:35:16] <luteijn> except in those places the .GIF is clearly wrong.
[11:35:42] <Yuv422> I made the tileflags doc to help workout what they all ment
[11:36:16] <SB-X> i only added the abbreviations above each bit column
[11:36:27] <Yuv422> do you have the raw version or a version with some off the flags x'd out
[11:37:32] <luteijn> I think nothing is x-ed out in the file I have now
[11:39:43] <Yuv422> cool
[11:41:14] <Yuv422> tile flags do have movement cost
[11:41:34] <luteijn> hm if I use Layer->Mask->Add layer mask; and then paste the second image in there, a lot of the map becomes transparant
[11:42:07] <SB-X> what doesnt?
[11:42:15] <luteijn> hmm probably the wrong kind of operation, as the brown table is masked with white, so it's an and not an xor..
[11:42:36] <SB-X> and with what?
[11:43:07] <luteijn> the table is 'white' when the potion effect is active.
[11:43:47] <SB-X> yes
[11:44:36] <luteijn> maybe xorring all the colors with the inverse of 'brown' is what's done?
[11:45:08] <SB-X> what's the inverse of brown?
[11:46:29] <SB-X> how do I repeat the operation?
[11:46:41] <SB-X> it wants to initialize the layer mask
[11:46:50] <luteijn> I initialized it with white
[11:47:18] <luteijn> then selected the other image, copied it, and pasted it into the first picture (presumably into the mask layer
[11:47:48] <SB-X> do you add a transparent layer first
[11:47:53] <SB-X> and then the layer mask
[11:48:08] <SB-X> because mine still looks the same, with no effect
[11:48:25] <luteijn> hmm did you copy the right image in?
[11:48:40] <luteijn> Maybe _I_ am doing it wrong...
[11:49:23] <SB-X> was copying the effect over the non-effect
[11:49:42] <luteijn> that's what I did.
[11:49:59] <SB-X> you add a transparent layer first?
[11:51:06] <luteijn> no.. I might actually be doing something that doens't make sense
[11:51:23] <SB-X> it won't let me add a layer mask without adding another layer first
[11:51:32] <SB-X> the option is grayed out
[11:51:56] <luteijn> hmm for me the option was tehre right after opening the two files
[11:52:30] <SB-X> well forget it then, our gimps don't even work the same
[11:52:31] <SB-X> sorry :)
[11:52:36] <luteijn> let's see the brown is about 50% red, 10% green and 0% blue
[11:53:07] <luteijn> inverse would be 50% 90% 100%, let's see if that's purple
[11:54:19] <SB-X> too much green
[11:54:35] <SB-X> it could be playing with the index too
[11:55:39] <luteijn> yeah the purple is more like 100% r and 100% blue with no green
[11:56:01] <luteijn> maybe it's just xoring the index, and teh resultant colors are quite random?
[11:56:22] <luteijn> we'd need to look at the u6 palette then
[11:56:42] <SB-X> the best I have is a text dump of it :)
[11:57:03] <luteijn> probably good enough for starters.
[11:58:57] <SB-X> mailed it to you
[12:00:00] <SB-X> it is trivial to make a picture of the palette, just don't have one saved right now
[12:01:18] <SB-X> ignore paletteeffect.txt, that was from the original pictures with the wrong colors
[12:01:40] <luteijn> the textdump is based on the original files, not a product of gimp etc?
[12:02:00] <SB-X> yes, it's from nuvie
[12:02:16] <SB-X> right where it creates the palette in Screen
[12:03:19] <luteijn> ok, let's see now, that brown looks to be entry 250. +5 is white. now to find the purple
[12:04:06] <SB-X> i think the palette in those pictures is accurate
[12:04:25] <SB-X> in gimp, view->indexed palette
[12:04:32] <SB-X> 207 is black there and in the text file
[12:04:40] <SB-X> it's at least somewhat accurate
[12:05:11] <SB-X> Dialogs->Indexed Palette*
[12:05:17] <luteijn> don't have the gimp open at the moment; what is the palette entry for the brown of the table?
[12:05:30] <luteijn> (and the magenta)
[12:05:37] <SB-X> 61
[12:05:51] <SB-X> 13
[12:06:55] <luteijn> ok
[12:07:00] <luteijn> got something interesting
[12:07:07] <luteijn> white is index 255
[12:07:20] <luteijn> 255 - 61 is 194
[12:07:33] <luteijn> purple is 13
[12:07:49] <luteijn> 194 + 13 is 207
[12:08:45] <luteijn> can you check if other pairs are 194 apart in the indexed palette?
[12:09:55] <luteijn> c2.. 1100 0010 (194)
[12:10:21] <luteijn> 0d.. 0000 1101 (13)
[12:11:02] <SB-X> well, the image's palette isn't too accurate afterall
[12:11:07] <SB-X> since 255 is a dark gray
[12:11:27] <luteijn> 3c.. 0011 1100 (61)
[12:12:14] <luteijn> sofar the bits of 194 fall between those, so it might not be a straight + bbut still something bitwise, like an or / xor
[12:12:55] <SB-X> the green->lightgreen in bushes is 91-86
[12:13:05] <luteijn> but it seems to me it's done on the index value, not on the colors of the palette (which makes sence as you can't really modify them and might fall outside the paletterange if you xorred the rgb values)
[12:13:08] <SB-X> that's 91 to 86
[12:13:25] <luteijn> converting it to hex to see
[12:13:46] <SB-X> it's also apparent since we see the same colors being transformed differently
[12:13:57] <luteijn> 91 is 5b 0101 1011
[12:14:40] <SB-X> it's easy to imagine patterns in bits :\nc
[12:14:48] <SB-X> -nc
[12:15:45] <SB-X> what about 86
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[12:15:47] <luteijn> 86 56 01010110
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[12:17:46] <SB-X> maybe it's modified with something in tileflags :)
[12:18:12] <luteijn> could be ;)
[12:18:26] <SB-X> 59->54
[12:18:38] <SB-X> 62-51
[12:18:57] <SB-X> 57->52
[12:19:40] <Yuv422> time for bed
[12:19:42] <luteijn> 5 difference, 11 difference 5 difference
[12:19:45] <Yuv422> cya
[12:20:01] <luteijn> can you see what 255 turns into?
[12:20:12] <-- Yuv422 has left IRC ("ZZzzz")
[12:20:14] <SB-X> cya
[12:20:18] <luteijn> if it is 255 than it is likely an or.
[12:20:31] <SB-X> is the white potion 255?
[12:20:36] <SB-X> unfortunately i just drank that one
[12:20:51] <luteijn> I don't know, press ctrl-r
[12:20:51] <SB-X> also in the screen capture 255 is dark gray
[12:20:55] <SB-X> heh
[12:21:04] <luteijn> no transparant I guess
[12:21:11] <SB-X> 0678 : 00000000 00000000 01001000 picture
[12:22:12] <SB-X> the mage's hair
[12:22:13] <luteijn> the palette file only has 0-254 no entry for 255
[12:22:30] <SB-X> oh, that's 16
[12:22:33] <luteijn> color 255 doesn't have to be white
[12:22:49] <SB-X> oh
[12:22:49] <luteijn> 15, 16 are both white yes
[12:22:57] <SB-X> ah, that's right 255 is transparent
[12:22:59] <SB-X> how could I forget
[12:23:20] <SB-X> as you can see the mage's hair turns black
[12:23:33] <luteijn> can you click on that palette thingy to select colors?
[12:23:55] <SB-X> it turns to 29
[12:23:56] <SB-X> yeah
[12:23:59] <luteijn> so we can find a pixel that is color-index 0
[12:24:18] <SB-X> outlines are 0
[12:24:36] <SB-X> but the mage's hair is more dark gray
[12:24:43] <luteijn> okay and they turn into palette entry 13
[12:24:49] <SB-X> yeah
[12:25:09] <luteijn> just like the mage goes from 16 + 13 -> 29
[12:25:38] <luteijn> is there a pixel with color 1
[12:25:59] <luteijn> and does it turn into 14, or into 13?
[12:27:11] <SB-X> no, nothing is using that blue
[12:27:24] <SB-X> except the buttons
[12:28:20] <luteijn> color 32? (0001 0000)
[12:28:44] <SB-X> 15 changes to 2
[12:29:18] <luteijn> 13 is 0000 1101 15 is 0000 1111 xor them you get 2
[12:29:57] <SB-X> i found a little 32 on the orange potion
[12:30:02] <SB-X> it changes to 45
[12:30:11] <luteijn> again xor
[12:31:06] <SB-X> so it is xor 13?
[12:31:19] <SB-X> did you go back and try it on the others?
[12:32:02] <luteijn> I think it would work, I remember the bits were exactly unaligned in the first two examples, now aht were the numbers
[12:32:09] <luteijn> 61: 124, 24, 0
[12:32:14] <luteijn> no
[12:33:04] <SB-X> so it handles some sets of tiles differently?
[12:33:09] <SB-X> or colors
[12:33:11] <SB-X> depending on range
[12:34:05] <luteijn> 91 -> 86 5b-> 56 01011011 -> 01011100
[12:34:46] <luteijn> 01011011 xor 00001101 is 01010110
[12:35:16] <SB-X> that's green on the bushes
[12:35:16] <luteijn> hmm are those indices really right?
[12:35:36] <SB-X> what are the real color values?
[12:35:41] <SB-X> for 91 and 86
[12:35:54] <SB-X> then I can make sure
[12:35:56] <luteijn> 91 96 156 0
[12:36:09] <luteijn> 86 180 252 32
[12:36:46] <SB-X> yes, the gimp agrees with those indices
[12:36:58] <SB-X> they match those color values
[12:37:33] <SB-X> 127->114
[12:37:46] <SB-X> 125-112
[12:38:02] <SB-X> 239->226
[12:38:25] <luteijn> again the '0x0d' pattern
[12:39:10] <SB-X> 123->118
[12:39:37] <SB-X> 124->113
[12:40:16] <SB-X> 61->48
[12:40:27] <luteijn> hmm 0101 0110 is 0x56 or 86; so it actually is right,
[12:40:50] <luteijn> the line after 'depending on range is wrong' I should hn't have skipped lunch
[12:41:13] <SB-X> me neither
[12:41:38] <luteijn> so I'd try xoring the index (which is what was in the videomemory, with 0x0d
[12:41:51] <SB-X> yeah!
[12:41:57] <luteijn> to duplicate the effect. Good luck, as you probably don't use the palette anymore :)
[12:42:14] <SB-X> oh yeah, that last change is after correcting white to 48
[12:42:17] <SB-X> so the table fits too
[12:42:20] <luteijn> but you can at least make a conversion array
[12:42:25] <SB-X> we do use the palette
[12:42:38] <luteijn> ah then the effect is easy to do?
[12:42:43] <SB-X> yeah
[12:42:51] <SB-X> and I don't plan to modify the palette
[12:42:56] <SB-X> just draw over the map
[12:43:32] <luteijn> at least something got figured out today then :) No don't modify the palette just xor 0x0d over the indices to it :)
[12:43:47] <SB-X> thanks a lot for the help
[12:43:51] <luteijn> (for the buffer that hold sthe map)
[12:43:55] <SB-X> the whole reason I couldn't get it before was the optimized palette
[12:44:02] <SB-X> can't believe I didn't think of that earlier
[12:44:15] <luteijn> I hate graphics.
[12:44:19] <SB-X> hehe
[12:44:31] <luteijn> atleast 1 byte index into palette I can understand
[12:45:45] <SB-X> this will look funny with smooth lighting
[12:45:51] <luteijn> ok, well you helped me with those tileflags, I'll probably use the description column to get the number of tiles in each object/animation/floortile right
[12:45:53] <SB-X> for that we don't use the palette
[12:46:24] <SB-X> good
[12:46:29] <luteijn> maybe you can still find some sort of transformation function that works on the rgb values
[12:46:49] <SB-X> except my surface is 8bit
[12:46:54] <SB-X> since it's easy to work with
[12:47:02] <luteijn> (or at least for the 255 defined ones) and then interpolate it. but I guess it will look funky
[12:47:13] <SB-X> i already made a function like that
[12:47:18] <SB-X> for selecting gui colors
[12:47:40] <SB-X> i wonder how the darkness is modified
[12:48:06] <luteijn> go down the stair into the dungeon
[12:48:13] <luteijn> then quaff the potion again.
[12:48:34] <luteijn> probably darkness xor 13 happens to be black again.
[12:50:09] <SB-X> that's better than what I was going to do: wait until nighttime
[12:50:21] <luteijn> or darknes is layered after effect transformation
[12:50:39] <luteijn> darkness purple
[12:51:00] <SB-X> it turns pink/purple/magenta
[12:51:09] <luteijn> just tried it. and then the darknes is gone for a bit. because of the real effect of the potion
[12:51:17] <SB-X> yes, afterwards
[12:51:33] <SB-X> but during the effect it I can't just do smooth lighting normally
[12:51:43] <SB-X> if you want the original effect use original lighting :
[12:51:44] <SB-X> :p*
[12:52:05] <SB-X> that way I can draw on the effect layer and then the lighting above it
[12:52:08] <luteijn> maybe do the effect first, then add the light? or would that still mess things up?
[12:52:19] <SB-X> no, hopefully that will work
[12:52:50] <SB-X> just have to add ability to ignore lighting when capturing the map
[12:53:11] <SB-X> but not with original lighting, since that's 8bit in the first place
[12:53:31] <SB-X> and I don't mind working with it
[12:53:55] <luteijn> ok I'm getting some lunch and groceries. I'll take a look at the tileflags later..
[12:54:02] <SB-X> cya
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[15:20:36] <SB-X> the mage's hair doesn't match
[15:22:48] <luteijn-afk> to what?
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[15:23:40] <SB-X> now it's green
[15:23:56] <SB-X> wb
[15:25:16] <luteijn> hmm and teh white in the white potion?
[15:25:53] <SB-X> Finn keeps stopping me before I get to the castle...
[15:26:04] <SB-X> I mean, "Lord British".
[15:26:07] <luteijn> annoying crazy guy ;)
[15:26:20] <SB-X> green and black
[15:26:28] <SB-X> but the table is white
[15:26:56] <SB-X> the black in the bushes is incorrectly changed to pink
[15:27:03] <SB-X> i'll just give you a picture
[15:27:21] <SB-X> and I'll commit it like this anyway
[15:27:42] <luteijn> looks like the palette is mixed up a bit in nuvie after all then?
[15:28:02] <luteijn> some whites do become green and some black does have to be magenta
[15:30:33] <SB-X> sent
[15:30:45] <SB-X> hmm, the surface is 8bpp
[15:31:14] <SB-X> possible the palette is really interpolated by Screen, but that's where I printed it and it was accurate
[15:31:53] <luteijn> but maybe it gets messed up again later, if more colors are needed, e.g. for darkness and scaling?
[15:33:22] <luteijn> the walls are actually affected most.
[15:34:58] <wjp> does nuvie do everything in 8bit or does it convert things to 16/32bpp?
[15:35:18] <wjp> (assuming you're talking about nuvie here :-) )
[15:35:23] <SB-X> yeah
[15:35:33] <luteijn> I wonder how it will look on my 8bpp screen. have to wait for cvs to replicate ;)
[15:35:35] <SB-X> it draws in the screen depth
[15:35:52] <SB-X> converting whatever the source is to that
[15:36:00] <SB-X> but I assumed it would still look the same
[15:36:09] <SB-X> since you're not going to lose anything 8bpp->32bpp
[15:36:42] <luteijn> it might again optimize the palette..
[15:36:52] <luteijn> or basically lose the palette
[15:37:03] <luteijn> I don't think 32bpp has a palette ;)
[15:37:34] <wjp> the colourtable would be impressively large if it did :-)
[15:38:10] <luteijn> so I gues sit will just say 'hey' this index is to white AGAIN, let's not keep it the same
[15:38:32] <SB-X> hmm
[15:39:06] <SB-X> you're right, now that I think about it... it probably loses the actual color value around where the original image is captured
[15:40:08] <luteijn> too bad the palette memory is used in the effects too.
[15:41:05] <SB-X> oops... I think I made the capture function too :p
[15:41:20] <SB-X> Screen::create_sdl_surface_8
[15:43:05] <luteijn> you could just ad one or two to one of the rgb componennt; probably not enough to be visible, but enough to make it a 'different' color..
[15:43:45] <wjp> that's what I did for the gimp plugin for Ultima 7 shapes as well
[15:43:57] <wjp> (the gimp has some issues with identical palette entries)
[15:44:39] <luteijn> yeah we noticed that. would be nice if modern drawing programs would support old-fashioned tricks properly..
[15:45:46] <wjp> I read claims recently that Deluxe Paint II is still the best 256 colour image editor :-)
[15:46:49] <wjp> so (without having read the entire backlog), it sounds like you're trying to go back from RGB to indexed?
[15:47:34] <luteijn> yes, the potion effect SBX wants to do is based on doing an xor on the index, not on the rgb values
[15:47:42] <SB-X> yeah... looks like we don't use the original palette, but we have a few conversion factors in screen that do it
[15:48:01] <SB-X> it still looks amazingly close :)
[15:48:03] <wjp> and you can't do the potion effect before the indexed->RGB conversion?
[15:48:31] <luteijn> yes, as the poiton would map different whites and blacks to different colors, but rgb has made them all the same 'palette' entry
[15:48:49] <luteijn> so you'd have to do it before
[15:49:08] <SB-X> it's working on a capture of the screen
[15:49:18] <SB-X> so it's really RGB->indexed
[15:49:28] <SB-X> might look correct in 8bpp mode
[15:49:42] <wjp> do you have a screenshot of what the potion effect in the original looked like?
[15:49:57] <SB-X> yeah I'll send you one
[15:50:32] <luteijn> actually it would be nicer on the network if I did, as I'm closer to him. I can put them on my webserver..
[15:50:39] <SB-X> yeah
[15:50:46] <SB-X> send the one with accurate palette
[15:50:52] <SB-X> thanks
[15:50:57] <SB-X> (the small one)
[15:51:02] <luteijn> the 3 png files will be online in 20 seconds :)
[15:51:25] <SB-X> in fact, I just replaced the obsolete scaled ones I had with those smaller pictures
[15:51:50] <luteijn> ok, link:
[15:52:25] <luteijn> http://luteijn.xs4all.nl/html/nuvie/download/
[15:53:12] <wjp> hm, interesting effect :-)
[15:53:18] <luteijn> game_001.png is the normal situation game_002.png is white the white potion quaffed.
[15:53:37] <luteijn> and nuvie-whitepotioneffect.png is what happens in nuvie
[15:53:45] <SB-X> wjp: no mushrooms involved
[15:53:49] <SB-X> honest
[15:53:59] <luteijn> operation is xor palette index with 13(decimal)
[15:54:00] <wjp> ah, but you don't know what's in that potion ;-)
[15:54:18] <wjp> (or maybe you do... is there alchemy in U6? :-) )
[15:54:34] <SB-X> i wish
[15:54:43] <luteijn> might be some nightshade in the potion, what's the reagents of the corresponding magic spell..
[15:55:50] <luteijn> reagents for WY are 10000001
[15:56:38] <luteijn> mandrake and sulfurous ash so no mushroms involved there.
[15:58:54] <SB-X> I had to look at spells.nsl.
[15:59:25] <luteijn> so did I, or at least, I looked at the excerpt I took from there and put in the u6o client..
[16:00:19] <SB-X> exult could use scripted magic too
[16:00:38] <wjp> spells are usecode I think
[16:01:01] <SB-X> even in BG?
[16:01:20] <wjp> yes
[16:01:55] <luteijn> well would make sense to me, I wonder if perhaps they even were to some extend in u6...
[16:02:16] <SB-X> i knew marzo torres was editing them in usecode, but thought I remembered people asking to be able to edit spells in new games
[16:02:25] <wjp> and in U8 they took it one step further: the spellbook is gone and all ways of casting spells are entirely done in usecode too :-)
[16:02:36] <SB-X> Marzo Junior*
[16:02:48] <SB-X> heh
[16:02:49] <wjp> SB-X: that's probably the spellbook gump they were referring to
[16:02:51] <SB-X> i never got into spellcasting there
[16:02:57] <SB-X> oh
[16:03:28] <luteijn> i never really got far in u8; the (to me) weird look of u7 combined with no party just didn't appeal to me.
[16:05:52] <SB-X> the perspective in u7 is more similiar to u6 than u8
[16:06:27] <SB-X> but everything else is closer to u8
[16:06:43] <luteijn> true, in u8 it's even worse, but still the people look too tall and thin
[16:18:22] * SB-X adds 'omniscient_view' property to MapWindow.
[16:19:00] <luteijn> x_ray_view?
[16:19:13] <SB-X> if you prefer
[16:20:32] <luteijn> omniscient feels like 'overview of everything happening' like a huge map of britain.. or something like the matrix :)
[16:21:02] <SB-X> then maybe we can use that when we get peer gems
[16:21:21] <SB-X> x_ray_view is shorter anyway
[16:21:28] <SB-X> and that usually wins
[16:23:23] <luteijn> for gems, 'peer_view' would be shorter. omniscient view would have to be something like vas uus wis ylem ;) 9th circle
[16:23:30] <SB-X> as long as I'm tweaking map blacking I'll fix earthquakes to not update the blacking when the "camera" moves past the wall
[16:24:03] <luteijn> finally there will be something to report in the forum :)
[16:24:14] --- luteijn is now known as luteijn_afk
[16:24:17] <luteijn_afk> cooking dinner
[16:24:30] <SB-X> vas uus wis ylem = "exec hex_editor"?
[16:24:33] <SB-X> cya
[18:08:25] <SB-X> hmm, how do I spam a white potion
[18:09:50] <SB-X> 7443
[18:11:18] <SB-X> it's not honouring quantity though; it should create 10 potions if you set quantity to 10
[18:36:09] <luteijn_afk> hmm, it works in u6; what happens if you buy 10 rolls at the bakery? let's see
[18:39:14] <SB-X> that's important, since the baker is supposed to give you 13 for fere
[18:39:15] <SB-X> free*
[18:39:26] <SB-X> or 1 for free
[18:39:27] <SB-X> whatever
[18:39:31] <SB-X> buy 1 dozen
[18:39:51] <luteijn_afk> hmm need to get some gold first :)
[18:39:58] <SB-X> that's object 88
[18:40:10] <luteijn_afk> t ah shamina is already loaded.
[18:40:19] <SB-X> heh, ok
[18:40:44] <SB-X> if you test the white potion you'll notice a couple of slight delays; those are for non-existant sound effects
[18:41:28] <SB-X> when we get the sound effects included (I *have* the sound files already), the delay will only be as long as the sound
[18:41:31] <luteijn_afk> hmm I told it to buy 10 bread, I only got 9 and not one extra (maybe because shamino bought them)0
[18:42:01] <SB-X> well you should at least get what you paid for
[18:42:09] <SB-X> that doesn't even make any sense
[18:42:48] <luteijn_afk> huh, iolo has 15 gold, I try to buy 10 rolls for 1 gold each and it says I don't have enough gold (
[18:43:08] <luteijn_afk> then I get 8 Rollss (with double s)
[18:43:38] <SB-X> does it take 10 gold?
[18:43:43] <SB-X> or 8
[18:43:46] <SB-X> or anything
[18:43:48] <luteijn_afk> which leaves iolo with 7 gold, 8 rolls(s) in his inventory
[18:43:54] <SB-X> ok
[18:43:54] <luteijn_afk> so it took 8 gold
[18:43:57] * SB-X shakes his head.
[18:44:00] <SB-X> it used to work
[18:44:04] --- luteijn_afk is now known as luteijn
[18:44:06] <SB-X> i'll look at it
[18:44:10] <SB-X> wb!
[18:44:11] <SB-X> :)
[18:44:22] <SB-X> sf cvs mails aren't being sent
[18:44:32] <luteijn> probably something similar happened with shamino, but I didn't look closely enough.
[18:44:39] <SB-X> and now when I say it, they get sent
[18:45:15] <luteijn> it will probably take a day for it to propagate to the anon cvs?
[18:45:40] <SB-X> no
[18:45:43] <SB-X> it updates immediately
[18:45:58] <luteijn> but still weird iol only gives 1 potion, although he does think 10 is to heavy for me.
[18:46:23] <SB-X> it's a bug
[18:47:05] <luteijn> well maybe it worked before, and just got affected by the same crappyness that's breaking the baker. u6 Iolo does give you 10 potions
[18:47:57] <luteijn> nothing changed in cvs for me; did cvs -d:pserver:anonymous@cvs.sf.net:/cvsroot/nuvie co nuvie so I gues sit's not as instantaneous..
[18:47:58] <SB-X> probably something very simple
[18:48:14] <SB-X> i want to call that a bug too, but I have no idea how SF works
[18:48:21] <SB-X> it's supposed to be instant
[18:48:44] <wjp> no, there's a delay
[18:49:16] <SB-X> well
[18:49:20] <SB-X> how long?
[18:49:25] <SB-X> a day?
[18:49:47] <SB-X> sorry, i really didn't mean "instant" instant :)
[18:49:50] <luteijn> hmm, I did get an additional rolls when I bought 2 more. crpa it crashed when I misclicked when scrolling down to see if it took 1 or 2 gold :)
[18:50:07] <SB-X> >:|
[18:50:09] <SB-X> misclicked?
[18:50:27] <SB-X> if it crashes it should be fixed now
[18:50:34] <luteijn> tried to mous click on the little arrow, hit one of the rollss instead.
[18:50:58] <SB-X> can you repeat it?
[18:51:23] <luteijn> I'll try.
[18:51:42] <SB-X> thanks
[18:52:47] <luteijn> hmm have to replay a little bit to get back to backery.
[18:53:35] <SB-X> i can try it
[18:54:06] <luteijn> hmm actually seems quite easy to crash nuvie with the mouse.
[18:55:41] <SB-X> >:|
[18:55:51] <luteijn> hmm no core, ran it through gdb, and it just says 'progrma exited normally. when just annoying it a bit by clicking on the inventory window a fe tiems
[18:56:07] <luteijn> so it's not really a crash then, is it.
[18:56:13] <SB-X> hehe
[18:56:19] <luteijn> unwanted behaviour, but not a crash
[18:56:21] <SB-X> i think i'd still want to fix it
[18:57:00] <SB-X> right after I get these gnome libraries downloaded
[18:57:10] <luteijn> I think i first have to drag something, drop it in inventory again, then click around a bit.
[18:59:00] <SB-X> much passing of pointers
[18:59:06] <luteijn> maybe my version is tha suck? triple or four-double clicked my orb (new game) and poof.
[18:59:59] <SB-X> or just something that I'm not getting
[19:00:13] <SB-X> doesn't mean I didnt screw up something somewhere
[19:00:20] <SB-X> but I don't get that crash
[19:00:53] <luteijn> you tried just clicking on an inventory item a few times in rapid succesion?
[19:01:56] <SB-X> yeah, no crash
[19:02:02] <SB-X> maybe I can't click as fast as you
[19:02:06] <-- trand has left IRC ("솔로천국 커플지옥")
[19:03:21] <luteijn> I'll check the stdout a little better.
[19:03:40] <wjp> don't click too fast
[19:03:58] <wjp> if I click fast it doesn't happen, but if I click slowly it does exit
[19:04:06] <SB-X> ok...
[19:04:17] <luteijn> hmm I also get Error: Failed opening '/home/luteijn/devel/nuvie/uc/ultima6/savegame/objblkbc'
[19:05:07] <luteijn> oh that's becuase u6 uppercased those
[19:05:15] <wjp> hm, wasn't audio working at some point?
[19:05:21] <SB-X> it is
[19:05:23] <wjp> I just get static
[19:05:44] <SB-X> you have to play with SDL_AUDIODRIVER
[19:05:46] <wjp> with a hint of melody behind it
[19:06:00] <wjp> um, why?
[19:06:06] * SB-X shrugs.
[19:06:10] <SB-X> there is a forum post about it
[19:08:01] <SB-X> esd works for me
[19:08:16] <wjp> I don't have any sound demons running
[19:08:36] <wjp> but indeed, esd works here as well
[19:09:10] <SB-X> odd
[19:09:21] <SB-X> i don't have esd running either
[19:09:44] <SB-X> do you know how long it usually takes for anon-cvs to update?
[19:09:53] <wjp> several hours I think
[19:10:04] <SB-X> :\
[19:10:10] <SB-X> ok thanks
[19:10:52] <luteijn> hmm alsa makes it sound like a goose begging for food. esd -> nothing.
[19:14:10] <SB-X> any specific place i can click to make it crack?
[19:14:12] <SB-X> or object
[19:15:54] <wjp> I just clicked on the orb of the moons a couple of times
[19:16:46] <wjp> it seems to randomly exit when trying to ready it
[19:17:17] <luteijn> I just clicked on the first object too, it does have to be something you cant ready, maybe you have to move the mouse a bit too, to make it a drag drop drag drop sequence?
[19:17:53] <SB-X> that would make sense, due to the delay before attempting to ready it
[19:21:02] <SB-X> well I was using an old cvs version, but with the newest one I don't see it either
[19:21:57] <wjp> happens for me with latest cvs
[19:23:34] <luteijn> me too, just tripple click. the orb and that's it. it does say ' you can't figure out how to use it and can't be readied just be fore it exits, so it is processing the clicks.
[19:23:37] <SB-X> probably an uninitialized variable
[19:23:55] <luteijn> maybe you need to be in NL for it to behave this way? ;)
[19:24:03] <wjp> :-)
[19:25:39] <luteijn> hmm if I first 'use' something that can be used, the orb is not crashing it anymore.
[19:25:56] <luteijn> but just triple clicking an empty circle is.
[19:26:29] <luteijn> I am running it on a remote X display; what about you guys?
[19:26:46] <wjp> local X
[19:26:47] <SB-X> that helps
[19:26:49] <SB-X> just local
[19:27:37] <SB-X> it probably "initializes" the pointer once you do use something, or click somewhere where there is no object
[19:27:53] <wjp> valgrind doesn't show anything
[19:27:57] <SB-X> :\
[19:28:37] <luteijn> well it still crashes eventually if you keep doing the tripple click, so it might still be dirty data. maybe try some malloc-debugger?
[19:31:32] <SB-X> i think I see where it is
[19:32:44] <luteijn> haha with ccmalloc it gets a SEGV
[19:33:56] <SB-X> does it give a location?
[19:34:26] <luteijn> the report is a mile long and overflew my scrollback, I'll redirect it.
[19:36:03] <luteijn> hmm never used this lib before, and didn't read the man page, so I'll just quote what I think are interesting parts of the report.
[19:37:10] <SB-X> just related to this please
[19:37:14] <luteijn> or better yet, take a look at it, http://luteijn.xs4all.nl/html/nuvie/download/ccmalloc.txt
[19:37:18] <SB-X> ok
[19:38:32] <wjp> hm, that looks like a memory leak report
[19:38:32] <luteijn> it might just be causing the SEGv on purpose to give you a chance to inspect the memory. It does find allocation errors though. probably would be better to single step through the program to see where it is exiting
[19:41:02] <SB-X> the only thing I see is when it tries to use the object, not ready it
[19:43:15] <luteijn> hmm can't click fast enough to keep the debugger single stepping while tripple clicking the orb.
[19:43:57] <SB-X> does it normally exit right on the third click or after the delay when it tries to ready it?
[19:44:01] <luteijn> ah it is possible to do it that way, only the stupid ccmalloc report scrolled the interesting part off the screen
[19:44:23] <luteijn> when it exits, I can _just_ make out that it tries to ready it.
[19:44:30] <SB-X> ok
[19:44:38] <luteijn> let me redo my latest test without ccmalloc
[19:45:03] <luteijn> at least the noisy new machine compiles quickly
[19:45:08] <SB-X> yay
[19:45:34] * wjp hmms
[19:45:43] <wjp> this looks suspicious
[19:45:50] <SB-X> comment out everything in views/InventoryWidget::MouseDelayed, try printing ready_obj
[19:46:02] <SB-X> what?
[19:46:10] <SB-X> it all looks suspicious to me!
[19:46:22] <SB-X> ;)
[19:46:53] <SB-X> also might be sending an extra MouseUp
[19:48:16] <wjp> in GUI_Widget::HandleEvent a delayed event can cause the entire HandleEvent function to return
[19:48:29] <wjp> not sure if that's a problem, but it sounds like it can make it miss events
[19:48:48] <luteijn> got something of a trace (using next, not step so not too high definition)
[19:49:19] <luteijn> 323 for( ; game_play ; )
[19:49:19] <luteijn> (gdb)
[19:49:19] <luteijn> 345 }
[19:49:19] <luteijn> (gdb)
[19:49:19] <luteijn> 0x080d4f98 in Nuvie::play (this=0x0) at nuvie.cpp:117
[19:49:20] <luteijn> 117 game->play();
[19:49:22] <luteijn> (gdb)
[19:49:24] <luteijn> 120 }
[19:49:26] <luteijn> (gdb)
[19:49:28] <luteijn> main (argc=1, argv=0x1) at main.cpp:55
[19:49:30] <luteijn> 55 delete nuvie;
[19:49:32] <luteijn> (gdb)
[19:49:34] <luteijn> 0x080d4c34 57 return 0;
[19:49:36] <luteijn> (gdb)
[19:49:38] <luteijn> 58 }
[19:49:55] <luteijn> so it is definately exiting 'nicely'..
[19:50:04] <SB-X> ok
[19:51:20] <SB-X> as far as how HandleEvent handles delayed mouseclicks, if they return GUI_PASS it will continue
[19:52:15] <wjp> it's ending up in GUI::HandleStatus with status=GUI_QUIT
[19:53:17] <wjp> ah
[19:53:21] <SB-X> that's how it normally ends
[19:53:30] <wjp> InventoryWidget::MouseDelayed doesn't return a value
[19:53:42] <SB-X> the HandleEvent case for delayed clicks isn't great but I don't think it breaks anything
[19:53:43] <SB-X> eh?
[19:53:54] <SB-X> ah i se
[19:53:57] <SB-X> see*
[19:54:20] <SB-X> I was scanning this function and didn't see the obvious. :p
[19:54:31] <luteijn> trying to get a better trace..
[19:54:42] <SB-X> luteijn: can you try adding a return value there?
[19:54:51] <SB-X> views/InventoryWidget::MouseDelayed
[19:55:00] <SB-X> return GUI_PASS
[19:55:12] <SB-X> just at the end
[19:55:35] <wjp> should fix it :-)
[19:56:09] <SB-X> both of you will have to test it
[19:56:41] <SB-X> That's kind of like an uninitialized variable.
[19:56:43] <SB-X> but not really
[19:57:19] <wjp> I've been clicking for a while without a crash now
[19:57:31] <SB-X> great
[19:57:32] <luteijn> rebbuilding
[19:57:37] <SB-X> thanks for the help
[19:57:49] <wjp> no problem :-)
[19:57:59] * wjp starts removing all printf statements again :-)
[19:58:03] <SB-X> hehe
[19:58:23] <luteijn> seems fixed now yes.
[19:58:27] <SB-X> I knew it was that function but didn't see that.
[19:58:28] <SB-X> cool
[19:59:23] <luteijn> okay backtrace to original problem, convo engine being obnoxious.
[19:59:34] <SB-X> I don't even remember coding this
[19:59:52] <SB-X> but from now on I'll start all functions with the first code being the correct return
[20:00:03] <SB-X> the first statement added I mean
[20:00:23] <wjp> should also enable -Wall :-)
[20:00:24] <SB-X> luteijn: that one is far less annoying, but yeah it would be nice to fix that as well
[20:00:44] * SB-X seems to remember being told that before.
[20:01:26] <wjp> should I make the --enable-debug configure option the default for now?
[20:02:14] <SB-X> all it adds is -O -g and -Wall, so yes that would be convenient
[20:02:32] <wjp> I also added -Werror here for a moment to see what pops up
[20:02:36] <SB-X> can you commit the inventorywidget change too?
[20:02:58] <SB-X> if you're updating anyway
[20:02:59] <wjp> sure
[20:03:06] <SB-X> ok
[20:04:06] <luteijn> hmm maybe make the file reading code case insensitive too? as u6 has a habit of uppercasing its files...
[20:04:24] <SB-X> it does?
[20:04:35] <SB-X> we already have the tool
[20:04:53] <SB-X> suggest running nuvie and u6 on different installs of u6
[20:05:01] <luteijn> well it did when I save d my game in u6 from dosbox. 4 objblk files got uppercased
[20:05:19] <SB-X> I have /mnt/shared2/u6 and /mnt/shared2/ultima6nuvie
[20:06:06] <SB-X> then you can make a script to copy the savegame folder and lowercase the filenames at once
[20:06:19] <SB-X> if you need to copy the savegame from dosbox u6 to nuvie
[20:07:20] <luteijn> or just something to flatten the case. as u6 has no problem reading the lc files
[20:07:21] <wjp> DollWidget::MouseDelayed also has no return
[20:07:42] <SB-X> nuvie's ability to read original savegames is more like an "import" function... we might even remove it as the default behavior
[20:08:07] <SB-X> wjp: guess it's just a copy of the other :)
[20:08:22] <SB-X> there is some unwanted code duplication between them
[20:08:42] <luteijn> ready ankh, triple click ankh, exit - stage left
[20:10:57] <SB-X> hehe
[20:11:13] <wjp> that's probably the DollWidget
[20:11:43] <wjp> ok, compiles without any warnings now
[20:12:22] <SB-X> the incorrect item quantities is probably not in conversation reading code, but in actor's inventory handling
[20:12:37] <luteijn> yes, that's what I was trying to trigger, I fixed it and now it doesn't crash anymore.
[20:13:24] <SB-X> there are a few methods in actor that call eachother in ways they shouldn't
[20:13:33] <luteijn> you mean the inventory is giving wrong information back to the convo parser, and misinterpreting its answers.
[20:13:37] <SB-X> yeah
[20:13:56] <SB-X> not that I've looked at it recently
[20:20:05] <luteijn> hmm some warnings in converspeech..
[20:20:29] <luteijn> ConverseSpeech.cpp:145: warning: converting to `unsigned int' from `double'
[20:20:29] <luteijn> ConverseSpeech.cpp:129: warning: `sint16 sample' might be used uninitialized in
[20:20:29] <luteijn> this function
[20:21:32] <wjp> only happens if decomp_size is 0 or 1
[20:21:38] <luteijn> but I don't have the speech files anyway
[20:21:40] <wjp> so I figured I'd just set sample to 0
[20:22:07] <wjp> after my commit from a couple of minutes ago all warnings should be gone, by the way
[20:22:14] <luteijn> the problem with the sound sounding weird, could that be endianness?
[20:22:53] <wjp> already tried to switch the endianness of Mix_OpenAudio without effect
[20:23:43] <SB-X> will have to ask yuv when he comes back
[20:24:10] <wjp> most mysterious that it works when setting SDL_AUDIODRIVER to esd
[20:24:24] <wjp> I wonder if it falls back to something else somehow
[20:24:40] <luteijn> if i set the driver to 'alsa' it sound stotally messed up, but with 'dsp' it is slightly better (still weird, but better
[20:24:57] <luteijn> if I set it to esd, it just can't initialize audio
[20:25:42] <SB-X> i think dsp is the default
[20:25:58] <wjp> hm, it starts esd automatically
[20:26:38] <SB-X> ah k
[20:26:53] <luteijn> before I set anything it was comparable to 'alsa', not to dsp. unset SDL_AUDIODRIVER and it's back to messed up
[20:27:05] <SB-X> missed that at first because of nuvie's threads listed in process list
[20:27:09] <luteijn> I don't have esd installed so it wuldn't be able t start it
[20:27:24] <SB-X> might depend on your setup then
[20:27:28] <SB-X> and how SDL was configured
[20:27:32] <SB-X> SDLMixer
[20:29:17] * wjp downgrades SDL_mixer just in case
[20:29:34] <wjp> (was my most recent SDL-related upgrade AFAIR)
[20:30:55] <wjp> but that didn't help
[20:32:23] <luteijn> installed esd, probably not set it up right as nuvie still can't init audio..
[20:34:21] <SB-X> sound/SoundManager::initAudio
[20:34:42] <SB-X> is that where it's printing the error message?
[20:34:54] <luteijn> probably
[20:35:40] <SB-X> then it's from SDL or SDL_mixer
[20:36:04] <luteijn> well, I cna live without sound ;)
[20:36:41] <SB-X> I normally have it disabled
[20:37:05] <SB-X> still got a bunch of sounds to add though
[20:37:18] <luteijn> this way I'm never going to get anywhere with my graphical map display for u6o ;) 22:40 already..
[20:37:44] <SB-X> hmm, work on that
[20:38:22] <SB-X> was going to finish some pathfinding changes
[20:38:39] * wjp hmms
[20:38:54] <wjp> setting audio format to unsigned 16bit seems to work
[20:39:11] <luteijn> ah where ?
[20:39:27] <wjp> same place SB-X mentioned
[20:39:48] <wjp> AUDIO_U16
[20:41:01] <SB-X> it's all static for me
[20:41:19] <luteijn> it seems to want to do the right thing with the BIG_ENDIAN define etc.
[20:41:28] <luteijn> snddriver set to dsp?
[20:41:47] <SB-X> jsut unset
[20:44:17] <SB-X> AUDIO_S16 works though
[20:44:35] <SB-X> in the BIG_ENDIAN define :p
[20:45:07] <SB-X> AUDI_S16LSB too
[20:45:18] * SB-X wonders how BIG_ENDIAN is set.
[20:45:38] <wjp> hm
[20:46:35] <wjp> #define BIG_ENDIAN __BIG_ENDIAN
[20:46:35] <wjp> #define __BIG_ENDIAN 4321
[20:47:04] <SB-X> o_O
[20:47:12] <wjp> we should be checking if BYTE_ORDER == BIG_ENDIAN
[20:47:18] <SB-X> ahh
[20:47:33] <SB-X> what about SDL_BYTEORDER?
[20:47:41] <SB-X> save/SaveGame checks that
[20:48:06] <SB-X> with SDL_BIG_ENDIAN
[20:48:29] <luteijn> so it was endianness after all... thank you galleon for not using network byte order in your u6o messages...
[20:49:10] <SB-X> haha ...
[20:49:12] <SB-X> hmm... how does that affect nuvie?
[20:49:25] <wjp> fix committed
[20:49:34] <SB-X> wonderful
[20:49:34] <luteijn> because that made me extra focussed on endian issues.
[20:49:37] <SB-X> thanks again
[20:49:44] <SB-X> oh
[20:50:04] <SB-X> so it's not sarcasm
[20:50:12] <luteijn> not this time...
[20:52:11] <luteijn> hmm one more reason to try to get the audio card for my envizex ;)
[21:19:14] <SB-X> sleep time now bye
[21:19:18] <-- SB-X has left IRC ("...")
[21:19:21] <luteijn> bye
[21:27:34] <wjp> for me too; night
[21:27:42] <luteijn> bye!
[21:27:48] * wjp idly wonders which timezone SB-X is in
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