#nuvie@irc.freenode.net logs for 20 Jul 2005 (GMT)

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[06:36:11] --> luteijn has joined #nuvie
[07:01:23] <luteijn> looking at the tileflag_data.txt; interesting how in the water basetiles 8-15 the first 4 bits rotate around 1000 1100 0100 0110 0010 0011 0001 1001
[07:14:20] <luteijn> these match the direction the water flows; see the replacement animation tiles at the end of the maptiles. with waves going north, north-east, east, se, s, sw, w, nw. (the replacement water tiles themselve don't have any tileflags, makes sense, the grpahics are copied round robin into the slot left free at 8-15)
[07:15:25] <luteijn> Suspect these 4 bits have something to do with impedement in a specific direction. Also some flags might have different meaning for different blocks of tiles..
[07:23:25] <luteijn> the fifth flag seems to indicate the tile does something special when stepped on. it is set for the swamp tiles (which also 'impede' in all directions?) and the lava tiles (the first 2 lava tiles (that are not totally filled, might not be impeding in all directions as much), the force field, the web (impeding in all directions) spikes, trap, lit campfire, fence (probably not really doing any damage, but used by pathfinder to avoid it anyway keeping party
[07:27:55] <luteijn> side the enclosure), lit cookfire, volcano, fir field, poison field, sleep field, tanglevine arms. Most of these do damage, some have a special effect like puting you to sleep, or sticking you in place.
[07:30:27] <luteijn> the 4 directional bits are also set for things like windows, secret doors, animal parts (e.g. dragon). interpretation could be tile specific, but always having to do with the orientaion of the tile?
[07:49:57] <luteijn> the other 4(5) unknown flags: the last flag is only set on the 3 lava tiles, the lit campfire, the person in stocks, the volcano, firefield, giant rat, giant bat, sheep, dog, deer, wolf, gremlin, mouse, bird, rabbit, gargoyle (adult and juvenile/wingless), daemon, drake, headless, troll, mongbat, fighter, swashbuckler, mage...woman, cat, farmer-working, musician-playing, lord B, avatar, dragon, cyclops, cow, horse (with/without rider) (the file is not tot
[07:50:09] <luteijn> say Nothing where it should be horse with rider.
[08:04:03] <luteijn> I guess we'll have to clear the bit and see how these things break. It might be a general 'attention' flag, with the actual thing to pay atention about (noise to play, different number of frames, special animation order)
[08:11:00] <luteijn> next to last bit is 1 for: end table, crate, cutting table(first tile, the actual worktop), the tables (including stone table), book stand, altar (all four tiles). These are all blocking tiles that you _can_ move/drop something on anyway.
[08:12:49] <luteijn> Guess it could be called the 'T'able bit.
[08:14:46] <luteijn> none of the maptiles have any of the last 3 mystery bits set. (third fourth fifth bit of the 3rd group)
[08:18:54] <luteijn> lets call these bits a,b,c (to avoid confusion about starting to count at 0 or 1 etc.) bit c is the one the leather helm has set. at this moment I'm not sure if these 3 bits belong together or are 2 or 3 different fields.
[08:26:22] <luteijn> at first glance It seems that c is unrelated to a and b, and is set for some objects. seems to be only objects that can be taken (although not all of them), never on alive things,
[08:42:21] <luteijn> looking at the items tha it's set on, I can't really think of something that sets these apart. maybe it's a 'isolating electric current' flag? and would help reduce electric damage taken?
[08:44:11] <luteijn> so far does seem to be on equipment that is not made of metal, or has only a small part of metal and a big wooden handle.
[08:44:51] <wjp> what happens if you cast a fireball at those? :-)
[08:45:34] <wjp> sounds like things that burn, although I don't remember things burning in U6 :-)
[08:45:44] <luteijn> hmm could be that they are 'flammable' or damagable by fire the book of circles has the flag too.
[08:46:07] <luteijn> hmm and most of the 'clutter' items, even the bakblik
[08:46:42] <wjp> did U6 have breakable items?
[08:46:55] <luteijn> I don't have a proper save game for the original where I can test the flammable theory ;)
[08:46:59] <wjp> I vaguely seem to remember that throwing some things could break them
[08:47:02] <luteijn> yes, glass items etc.
[08:47:23] <luteijn> but eg a leather helmet and a chain coif only differ in this one bit, and neither of them breaks
[08:48:56] <luteijn> hmm flask of oil is combustable, and isolating.. although I guess if you'd zap it with lightning it should ignite anyway.. I guess the 'can be blown up' theory is still the best so far ;)
[08:49:30] --> trand has joined #nuvie
[08:50:49] <luteijn> hmm there's a note at the top of the file 'Block explosion' that is also pointing to the 5th column (only of the wrong group of bits) maybe something went wrong with the tabbing, or SBX though eh,, fifthbit okay quickly mark it.
[08:51:14] <luteijn> It might not block the explosion but be 'affected by it'?
[08:52:56] <luteijn> anyway, this bit needs a few items that hav/not have it be put in a stack and then being fireballed lightninged, flame wanded to see if it has any effect ;)
[08:57:44] <wjp> sounds like something pyro-x^Wsb-x would like to try ;-)
[08:58:02] <wjp> [did you see the Exult island patch?]
[08:58:30] <luteijn> nope, not really following exult too much.
[08:59:18] <wjp> sb-x has a character in it, standing with a lit torch next to a huge pile of powder kegs, claiming his evil twin brother pyro-x is blowing things up, or something to that effect :-)
[08:59:50] <luteijn> sb-x when you're reading this, don't bother shooting these things with a cannon, no discernable effect. (but the cannon blast doesn't hurt anyone anyway, and you can't direct hit these things)
[09:08:01] <luteijn> hmm two more unknown bits left to look at. the four 'coverup' floor objects all have both a and b set. cutting table has a set for its first tile (surface). the middle part of the big square table has a, the middle part of the drawbridge has a, the middle parts of the steps have it. the middle parts of the workbench-table. so far looks like 'don't bother to draw anytiles before this one, as it covers them fully anyway, thank you verymuch'-flag
[09:09:30] <luteijn> so a is probably 'opaque-tile' flag. useful to speed up drawing of the map.
[09:14:33] <luteijn> b is on the floor tiles mentioned above, on a shadows (near tables), the 'monster-egg','charge','effect' debugging mode tiles, the blood tiles. part of the ship tiles, the 'nothing' between the raft and dragon egg tile.
[09:15:17] <luteijn> seems to be 'always on top'
[09:16:51] <luteijn> as a and b are helpers to drawing the map, maybe c is too. maybe this is the 'can be placed on top of non passable objects' that is in the legend but not in the table heading?
[09:18:45] <luteijn> anyway that seems to be all of them; if someone has time to check this in the original, that would be nice. And let me know if I'm clearly wrong on any of them, then I'll take another look later.
[09:19:00] --- luteijn is now known as luteijn-afk
[09:19:10] <luteijn-afk> going to do gorceries...
[09:19:12] <luteijn-afk> bbl
[09:59:26] --- luteijn-afk is now known as luteijn
[10:24:23] --> SB-X has joined #nuvie
[10:24:32] <luteijn> hey sbx
[10:24:42] <SB-X> hi
[10:24:54] <luteijn> read the log?
[10:24:54] <SB-X> i was trying to get dhcp working again :)
[10:24:59] <SB-X> some of it
[10:25:23] * SB-X looks.
[10:37:37] <SB-X> hurray for tileflags!
[10:38:07] <luteijn> anythign else still unknown?
[10:38:21] <SB-X> luteijn: eh, I hope you didnt repeat any work... a few of those might have already been discovered but not updated in the doc
[10:38:32] <SB-X> yuv422 implied he knew more than he was saying :)
[10:39:00] <SB-X> in tileflags, im not sure
[10:39:10] <luteijn> well I just quickly looked at the 9 ?-marks, and the !
[10:39:12] <SB-X> i wish there was something that said what blocked explosions
[10:39:18] <SB-X> i dont even remember what the ! means
[10:39:24] <luteijn> I think the 'o' from the legend must be my 'c' flag.
[10:39:42] <SB-X> the "Block explosion?" header might have been wishful thinking :)
[10:40:03] <SB-X> c?
[10:40:14] <luteijn> it's actually pointing at the 4th bit, which to me is part of the 'direction' bits
[10:40:36] <luteijn> 'c' is the 5th bit of the third group.
[10:40:38] <SB-X> you think those tell which way a raft moves?
[10:40:46] <luteijn> for water yes
[10:41:04] <luteijn> for secret door, mousehole it shows passable in which way
[10:41:18] <SB-X> but those are passable both ways
[10:41:29] <luteijn> yes but only N-S or E-W
[10:41:47] <luteijn> never both directions at once
[10:42:15] <luteijn> dragon parts also have 'interesting' things in the directional bits.
[10:42:26] <SB-X> how would one test about the secret doors/mouseholes?
[10:42:32] <SB-X> if it goes N-S, there are walls to the E-W
[10:42:57] <luteijn> dial one up with iolo and put it in a wide open space?
[10:43:31] <SB-X> it was hard enough dialing up a white potion...
[10:43:40] <SB-X> 334
[10:44:48] <SB-X> i can still walk past it from the east or west
[10:44:53] <SB-X> as long as its open
[10:45:14] <SB-X> and use it from those directions
[10:45:36] <luteijn> it might just be directions used by some part of the engine, depending on the tile type.. maybe this has to do with looking through it
[10:46:11] <SB-X> better wait for Eric to come back to ask him what he knows that isn't written
[10:46:13] <luteijn> windows also have 'direction set on it. but for the dragon parts it could just be someting to indicate where from the torso to attach them
[10:46:22] <SB-X> yeah
[10:46:27] <SB-X> i think that's hardcoded in nuvie
[10:46:29] <SB-X> by frame
[10:46:33] <SB-X> object & frame
[10:46:36] <SB-X> are you looking at tileflags.txt too?
[10:46:49] <luteijn> so if dragon is facing north, pick the frames that have the north bit set (torso has all bits set
[10:46:58] <SB-X> ah
[10:47:27] <SB-X> you'll notice in that file that there are two completely unknown fields :)
[10:47:40] <SB-X> at least unknown to me and the docs
[10:49:02] <luteijn> ok, LSB/MSB issues ;) but my tileflag.txt has lots of holes that match up with the ?-marks
[10:49:36] <luteijn> so is your file different?
[10:49:58] <SB-X> above the third field, 0x1000 ?? unknown
[10:50:03] <SB-X> and below it 0x1c00
[10:50:43] <luteijn> Oh I just read 0x1c00 as' end of bits here'
[10:51:11] <SB-X> maybe he forgot to put a question mark there
[10:53:04] <luteijn> anyway, looking at tileflag.txt and taking those bit names I guess 0x000-bit 3 to be the 'hazard' bit (poison, damage etc when stepped on)
[10:53:44] <luteijn> exact interpratation is probably hardcoded, but this signals the engine that something will happen, so to run the detailed check, and avoid it when pathfinding
[10:54:00] <SB-X> yeah
[10:54:02] <SB-X> hazard is a good name
[10:54:24] <luteijn> bits 4 5 6 7 of 0x000- would be the 'direction' bits, that also depend on the functions that use them.
[10:54:42] <SB-X> although volcano's are hazard, why would it try to avoid them? they don't do any damage unless you stand there, and even if you avoid the tile you can get hit
[10:55:25] <luteijn> did you ever stand 'on' them? I think you can't get to them, but they might burn you like lava if you stood there
[10:56:09] <luteijn> guess you could teleport into one.
[10:56:51] <SB-X> bc, 2c, 5
[10:56:57] <SB-X> shrine of passion
[10:57:14] <luteijn> vulcano != fumarole.
[10:57:30] <SB-X> oops
[10:57:43] <SB-X> oh you mean the ones on top of mountains
[10:58:01] <SB-X> that say "volcano" ... heh :)
[10:58:05] <luteijn> yes. there's also a 'crater' tile, that looks like an empty volcano, don't rember ever seeing it in the wild
[10:58:28] <SB-X> this wont be so easy with a demon nearby
[10:58:35] <SB-X> shooting charm arrows at us
[10:58:39] <SB-X> or some kind of arrows
[11:00:09] <SB-X> volcano doesn't seem to do any damage
[11:00:34] <SB-X> hmm, wonder what the obj num is
[11:00:45] <SB-X> to test one without the blocking mountains around it
[11:00:56] <SB-X> 307
[11:01:12] <luteijn> you might have to move on it to trigger it.. or it jus thas to be avoided for visual ness
[11:02:11] * SB-X gets a hot steaming volcano in his backpack and drops it in Lord British's throne room.
[11:02:45] <luteijn> for the ! marked flag (bit 0 of 0x1400-range) I'm still not really sure but might be a general 'attention' flag), with function/tile specific meaning
[11:02:46] <SB-X> yeah, everyone avoids it like a hot potato :)
[11:02:53] <SB-X> ok
[11:03:01] <luteijn> stepping on it doesn't hurt though?
[11:03:36] <SB-X> no
[11:03:49] <SB-X> and you're right about the ontop flags on carpets, if you drop the volcano on the carpet it goes under it
[11:04:01] <SB-X> still affects npc movement just the same (and causes quakes)
[11:04:09] <SB-X> and you can still look at it
[11:04:37] <luteijn> the quake might be the 'hazard' to check for
[11:04:53] <luteijn> the other hazards could just be always checking when on screen if someone is on them
[11:05:07] <SB-X> hmm
[11:05:11] <luteijn> so it would be 'has function to check each cycle'
[11:05:21] <SB-X> that was something we were looking for too
[11:05:44] <SB-X> currently just checked by objnum
[11:05:54] <SB-X> although we dont actually use it
[11:06:09] <SB-X> for npc movement they probably just said avoid all hazards
[11:06:28] <SB-X> and marked "fences" hazard as a quick way to keep NPCs from crossing them
[11:06:39] <luteijn> the callback function might be the bit 0 of the third group.
[11:06:41] <SB-X> or penned-in animals specifically
[11:07:15] <SB-X> it says unknown lava tiles??
[11:07:57] <luteijn> if you hexedit out the 1 that is in bit 0 for the volcano, does it still cause quakes? it's not just set on lava tiles, but on lots of things that are somehow special
[11:08:04] <luteijn> but it does set that
[11:08:07] <luteijn> say
[11:08:42] <SB-X> I'll try editing the tileflags in a moment.
[11:08:44] <SB-X> do clocks and fountains have anything special?
[11:08:54] <luteijn> animated frames
[11:08:54] <SB-X> or mirrors
[11:08:59] <SB-X> i mean tileflags
[11:09:24] <luteijn> oh let me see, some bits set for the clock
[11:10:00] <luteijn> the lower part has the can be put ontop flag (if that's what it is)
[11:10:42] <luteijn> the top part is marked as top-tile and the lower part as 'v' i.e. going to the south of the top part
[11:11:15] <luteijn> and the article bit is set.
[11:11:45] <SB-X> ok thanks
[11:12:10] <luteijn> but 'use' is something that only needs to be checked when you actually try to use it anyway
[11:13:13] <SB-X> volcano's dont hurt when they cause an earthquake
[11:13:21] <SB-X> i was thinking of the clock's sound effects
[11:13:33] <SB-X> it must just check tiles that are on screen
[11:13:45] <SB-X> i'd still rather do it by object
[11:15:46] <luteijn> wondering if the 'crater' tile works just like a 'hole'.. going to try it.
[11:17:25] <SB-X> where would it send you? :)
[11:17:33] <SB-X> oh, by quality
[11:17:36] <luteijn> down, I hope
[11:17:38] <SB-X> heh
[11:18:08] <SB-X> i imagined you creating some kind of black hole crater in britain with no destination
[11:18:30] <luteijn> what was the object number for the volcano?
[11:18:43] <SB-X> though if you could toss some kind of exotic moonstone down it with quality-changing properties, it would let you change the destination
[11:18:46] <SB-X> 307
[11:19:18] <luteijn> I guess crater is a frame of the volcano.
[11:20:08] <SB-X> add frame*1024
[11:20:20] <luteijn> I did, and it made a crater
[11:20:36] <luteijn> but it's not working as a hole I think
[11:21:05] <luteijn> it did trigger a quake
[11:21:17] <SB-X> so they probably exist somewhere in nature
[11:22:17] <luteijn> crater has neither 'avoid/hazard' bit nor the '!' bit so neither of those mean 'special function, like quake' attached'
[11:23:37] <luteijn> can't use the crater either, or move someting in it.
[11:26:09] <luteijn> ah but you can throuw a hole ontop of it, which doesn't show, and if you then step on the crater, you do get teleported to dungeon deceit (as quality was 1)
[11:27:19] <luteijn> so you can probably make a long chute out of craters and holes...
[11:28:20] <SB-X> maybe hole has "onbottom" bit set?
[11:28:25] <SB-X> if there is such a thing
[11:28:35] <SB-X> or crater has ontop
[11:29:11] <luteijn> both have exactly the same flags, so it must see the crater first, and honor it.
[11:30:21] <luteijn> the flag I called 'a' before is what they both have. so it's something like 'this is a covering tile, just draw this one
[11:31:13] <luteijn> probably used to cover the pirate's treasure cave with the earth tile, use shovel on it and it deletes the earth tile, uncovering the hole, and any buried treasur (like gold nuggets)
[11:32:17] <SB-X> how does the earth tile work?
[11:32:18] <luteijn> so there might be treasure hidden underneath 'floorboards' too somewhere..
[11:33:14] <luteijn> try dropping an object 29 somewhere, then drop more stuff on it.
[11:37:15] <SB-X> they stay on top
[11:38:11] <luteijn> hmm they also have the b bit set. so not totally comparable with the hole/crater
[11:38:43] <SB-X> do earth basetiles share the same tilenumber?
[11:39:03] <SB-X> i know you can't dig those up
[11:39:07] <luteijn> no, if you mean what I think you do.
[11:40:00] <luteijn> there are 4 'floor' tiles in the tileset just after the swamp boots. (earth, floorboards,flagstones and blue tiles)
[11:40:54] <luteijn> they have the 'a' and 'b' bits set (so opaque and always on top
[11:41:23] <luteijn> so nothing underneath them is drawn, and also the rest of the stack is not drawn once this tile is found.
[11:42:00] <luteijn> or maybe everything underneath it is still drawn, but the 'look wil lalways look at just thisone'
[11:44:27] <luteijn> hmm something dropped on the earth stays on top of it so 'b' might instead mean, always on bottom
[11:44:55] <SB-X> looking at tileflag...
[11:45:19] <SB-X> bit 0 of which group?
[11:45:54] <SB-X> sorry, which one is set on volcanos?
[11:46:04] <SB-X> seeing ifi t causes quakkes
[11:47:02] <luteijn> oh it doesn't as the crater doesn't have that bit, and it does cause the quake
[11:47:24] <luteijn> but it is the bit marked with an '!' in the header
[11:47:47] <SB-X> oh ok
[11:48:06] <luteijn> so quake proably based on the obj type
[11:48:21] <luteijn> or on one of the flags not written out into the tileflag_data.txt
[11:48:35] <SB-X> any idea on the ones at 0x1000?
[11:48:47] <luteijn> would be interesting to see all those unknown fields in that file too
[11:49:23] <luteijn> its only for 1024 tiles, so not one flag for each tile?
[11:49:24] <SB-X> eh, gnome/gtk2 file-browser doesn't have a way to type a path/filename in?
[11:49:36] <SB-X> don't know
[11:49:41] <wjp> type /
[11:49:45] <luteijn> dunno, don't use gnome ;)
[11:50:04] <SB-X> nothing happens
[11:50:43] <SB-X> this is the one that says "Select a File to Open", has Home and Filesystem shortcuts on the left, with Add and Remove buttons, directory list on the right, Cancel and Open
[11:50:59] <wjp> if might work only directly after opening the dialog
[11:51:02] <wjp> s/if/it/
[11:51:19] <luteijn> or only 4 bits per tile, or it's 'object' flags.
[11:53:13] <wjp> SB-X: hm, sorry, seems to be an incremental search, not a name entry box
[11:53:15] <SB-X> or it just doesn't effect tiles >1024
[11:53:29] <SB-X> yeah there isn't any place to enter the filename
[11:54:27] <luteijn> eh but tile 1024 is not a nice boundary. the first 512 tiles are map tiles. then there are 1536 object tiles.
[11:54:58] <SB-X> but the last one before that is xylophone then its a bunch of oaken doors
[11:55:16] <SB-X> those second 512 might be special
[11:55:52] <SB-X> or it might start at 512th tile
[11:56:16] <luteijn> then 1536 is in the middle of the living things.
[11:56:42] <SB-X> 4bits per tile is better
[11:56:55] <SB-X> and I noticed the file doesn't go to 0x1c00 so I don't know why that's there
[11:57:12] <luteijn> or 1 flag per 'object' there are 1024 objects isn't it with some of them having more frames
[11:57:22] <SB-X> ah
[11:57:25] <SB-X> yeah, that's even better
[11:57:32] <luteijn> 0c1bff is the last byte?
[11:57:58] <SB-X> 0c1bff?
[11:58:14] <luteijn> 0x :)
[11:58:19] <SB-X> it's not 0x1c00 at least
[11:59:06] <SB-X> yeah
[11:59:28] <luteijn> well so 0x1c00 is ther to say 'end of range and start of new range, if it was there)
[11:59:45] <SB-X> ?
[11:59:50] <SB-X> oh, yeah
[12:00:13] <luteijn> sorry, my typing is not too easy to read back.
[12:00:21] <SB-X> speaking of object flags, want to tell me what the rest of those mean now? :)
[12:00:30] <SB-X> np
[12:00:57] <SB-X> didn't realize what end of range start of new range meant at first or why it would be there
[12:01:03] <luteijn> you mean the ones from 1000 to 1400 ?
[12:01:04] <SB-X> but i see now
[12:01:07] <SB-X> no...
[12:01:18] <SB-X> objlist.txt
[12:02:04] <SB-X> hmm that was really ambiguous
[12:02:17] <SB-X> of course, I would like to know what the rest of tileflags are, but was thinking of objlist right now
[12:02:44] <luteijn> oh there's lots of unknown things in there to play with ;)
[12:02:55] <SB-X> sort of... "on that note... what does objlist mean"
[12:02:57] <SB-X> yep
[12:03:04] <SB-X> the rest of objlist*
[12:03:05] <luteijn> I guess we'd better start with making a file objlist_data.txt ;)
[12:03:24] <SB-X> i usually start by changing things and seeing what breaks
[12:03:35] <SB-X> no idea that they are bitflags
[12:03:46] <SB-X> some of them are more likely 1 byte per npc
[12:05:32] <luteijn> there is one thing called npc status flags. 2 bits not known. if mapped to the npc's maybe you could see a pattern
[12:06:16] <luteijn> then you can verify the hypothesis by twiddling the bit to see if the supposed behavior is changed
[12:07:01] <luteijn> the easy things like 'sleep' 'poisoned' are already known, so the left over ones are probably not directly obvious
[12:07:57] <luteijn> so we'd have to have some idea of what it might do, then check if the hunch is right.
[12:09:05] <SB-X> pathfinding?
[12:09:25] <SB-X> why are there two in_party bits?
[12:10:25] <luteijn> might be soemthing like 'in party' and 'on roster' (if they're dead they'd not be on the roster.) again, needs a little bit of experimenting
[12:10:48] <SB-X> had to kill those gargoyles at the start first, they've gotten quite annoying
[12:10:55] <SB-X> iolo hit geoffrey with an arrow
[12:11:09] <luteijn> maybe save after killing them?
[12:11:17] <SB-X> they aren't in the party when dead either
[12:11:20] <SB-X> yep
[12:11:43] <luteijn> but once resurected they ned to be put back in the party
[12:12:17] <luteijn> so maybe it's 'Joined up' 'In party' (so the script knows they are there)
[12:13:03] <SB-X> somehow we put them back in nuvie
[12:13:13] <SB-X> LB doesn't have any flags set
[12:13:26] <luteijn> he's a robot anyway ;)
[12:13:38] <SB-X> what are the numbers of the other NPCs in the castle?
[12:13:38] <luteijn> try setting the inparty flags on him :)
[12:13:45] <SB-X> good idea
[12:14:06] <SB-X> LB=5 Sherry=9 Chuckles=10
[12:14:36] <SB-X> Nystul=? Geoffrey=? and that cook who's name escapes me at the moment
[12:15:25] <SB-X> eek
[12:15:34] <SB-X> when I hit Ctrl-R to reload in U6, the gargoyles respawned
[12:15:38] <SB-X> their dead bodies are still there
[12:15:42] <luteijn> is there a list of npcs somewhere? I guess you'd have made one when looking at conversation scripts
[12:16:10] <luteijn> maybe the egg is still triggered until you talked to lord B or moved away a bit
[12:16:21] <SB-X> the conversation unpacker automatically makes a list, also you can look at them in nuvie to get the number
[12:16:27] <SB-X> yeah...
[12:16:44] <SB-X> LB is helping in the battle now :)
[12:16:50] <SB-X> but he's not in the party roster
[12:17:13] <luteijn> so maybe that is a different bit to set. did you set both party bits?
[12:17:14] <SB-X> makes you wonder why he doesnt just go to the shrines and single-handedly save britannia
[12:17:33] <SB-X> the party is at 0xfe0
[12:17:57] <luteijn> remember U5? As the avatar you probably told him: "If you ever leave the castle's safety again, I'm not fetching you again."
[12:18:24] <SB-X> hehe
[12:18:31] <SB-X> then he smashed the sandlewood box to peices
[12:18:56] <luteijn> does lord B follow you around now?
[12:19:10] <SB-X> only in combat
[12:19:36] <SB-X> and when there are hostiles
[12:19:45] <luteijn> probably those bits indicate which side things are on then? summoned daemon would also have them (if friendly)
[12:20:01] <SB-X> eh, he's non-solid now
[12:20:29] <SB-X> after leaving combat mode he is standing in the middle of the throne-room (even if i switch it back on he wont move) and I can move through him
[12:21:43] <luteijn> hmm but if anythign nasty comes near, he's back to fighting?
[12:22:30] <SB-X> hmm
[12:22:45] <SB-X> I attacked geoffry and nystul and him started attacking me
[12:22:50] <SB-X> lb just stands there as usual
[12:22:55] <SB-X> even if I go into combat mode
[12:23:09] <SB-X> if I walk past lb then his subjects start attacking him instead
[12:23:14] <luteijn> your party members are also attacking nystul, or they just stand there?
[12:23:18] <SB-X> they don't realize their efforts are futil
[12:23:28] <SB-X> futile*
[12:23:35] <luteijn> hm he doesn't fight back?
[12:23:55] <SB-X> no the party members wont attack him in combat mode, since he's not hostile
[12:24:05] <SB-X> i dont know how to get a hostile enemy tehre
[12:24:17] <SB-X> nope
[12:24:23] <luteijn> appears the 'enemy' is sensing he's on your side, from the bits.
[12:25:01] <luteijn> 4 combinations, 'evil'neutral' 'good' 'on the player's side'?
[12:25:07] <SB-X> the reappearing gargoyles was probably because I loaded the objlist in a hex editor, killed them and saved, then edited and saved the file in the hex editor
[12:25:21] <SB-X> alignment is stored elsewhere
[12:26:05] <SB-X> it's a good thing LB is immortal, I'll just leave these three alone briefly while I go find some wolves
[12:26:34] <luteijn> maybe LB will come running when you get to them.
[12:27:06] <SB-X> I'm less than enthusiastic about discovering what an already marked flag means.
[12:27:35] <SB-X> eric probably already did this
[12:27:50] <SB-X> hey, sea serpents have protection fields
[12:28:03] <SB-X> or the same effecct is used when they throw fireballs
[12:28:14] <luteijn> I think so.
[12:28:44] <luteijn> hmm Eric, if you know more than just 'Party' please add it to the documentation ;)
[12:29:12] <luteijn> He'll probably not notice that because today is so spammed full of text..
[12:29:38] <SB-X> but it's text that's chock full of U6 goodness
[12:29:45] <SB-X> have you tried any white potions lately?
[12:30:01] <luteijn> only yesterday ;)
[12:30:31] <SB-X> how'd that go
[12:30:53] <SB-X> ugh, dragons are almost as evil as in U6O... i was trying to escape and the dragon was offscreen and summoned a demon in front of us which immediately charmed me
[12:31:17] <luteijn> getting the changes to nuvie submitted yesterday, let's see how your effect looks
[12:31:39] <SB-X> oh, you mean you tried them before they did anything :p
[12:32:08] <SB-X> writing monster code will be fun
[12:32:31] <SB-X> U6 enemies some interesting tactics
[12:32:36] <SB-X> had some interesting*
[12:32:58] <SB-X> and good tactics, with lots of magic special effects
[12:33:43] <luteijn> hmm even in my 8bit window the palette is fuxored, I think. the walls turn as green as on your screenshot
[12:34:04] <SB-X> ok
[12:34:11] <SB-X> but is it working otherwise?
[12:34:20] <SB-X> im not going to bother fixing the colors right now
[12:34:26] <luteijn> hmm you mean does it give xray vision?
[12:34:31] <SB-X> yes
[12:34:38] <SB-X> and about the right speed and everything
[12:35:35] <SB-X> nuvie still runs in 16bit mode so that's X converting it to 8bpp after the fact?
[12:35:37] <luteijn> can't proerly compare the speed as dosbox is not a fair comparison.
[12:35:46] <SB-X> ok
[12:35:51] <SB-X> looks good here
[12:36:17] <luteijn> seems that it takes a little too long for the see through to kick in, I though it was right after the colors become normal
[12:36:44] <SB-X> there is a slight delay where the character is outlined in red
[12:36:56] <SB-X> we don't have that effect yet
[12:37:02] <luteijn> you probably took a better look at the original than me anyway ;)
[12:37:33] <SB-X> yeah, just wasnt sure on the timing... it's probably based on the length of the sound effect
[12:37:40] <SB-X> or might be
[12:37:46] <luteijn> that outlining is probably done the same way, change index of the particular black in red (or blue for invis, and tranparenting all other colors)
[12:38:07] <SB-X> but it's not a fullscreen effect
[12:38:14] <SB-X> since it only outlines that character
[12:38:59] <luteijn> I would asume there's just one function 'modify palete for this here tile', that gets called on all tiles on the map for the x-ray, and only on invis characters for invis
[12:40:05] <luteijn> or they optimzed the x-ray one to take the whole map, and have separate one for single actors, that gets called before they're copied on the map
[12:40:07] <SB-X> but is it the generic tile number or the specific tile as displayed?
[12:40:23] <SB-X> it wouldn't outline all "fighters" on the screen, for example
[12:40:26] <luteijn> tile as displayed, just like the rotate this tile by x degrees
[12:40:32] <SB-X> ah k
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[12:40:45] <luteijn> when you throw an axe, it doesn't rotate all axes, etc
[12:40:50] <SB-X> no :)
[12:40:54] <SB-X> hi yuv
[12:40:56] <Yuv422> hej
[12:40:59] <SB-X> if you use smooth lighting take a potion into the dungeon to see how bad it looks in 8bit reversed color :)
[12:41:16] <SB-X> luteijn
[12:41:19] <luteijn> I'll turn on smoothlightning then..
[12:41:27] * Yuv422 struggles to get through the chat backlog
[12:41:35] <luteijn> have fun, yuv..
[12:41:38] <Yuv422> hehe
[12:42:06] <luteijn> because you got here last, you get to compile a list of conclusions for the tileflags we looked at .
[12:44:22] <luteijn> actually doesn't look too bad, except for the light-circle turning into some sort of weird ripple effect of darker and lighter..
[12:45:56] <Yuv422> have you looked at the info about tileflags in the forum?
[12:47:08] <luteijn> only when it was put there originally, not reread it. so any info from it would have ben used subconciously only
[12:47:32] <luteijn> I seem to remember it has something about impedement being in the flags.
[12:47:52] <Yuv422> bits 4-7 in the first byte
[12:48:05] <Yuv422> if the tile is passable
[12:49:27] <luteijn> those are my extra information by direction bits.
[12:50:30] <luteijn> impedemment wouldn't make sence on a dragontail. so these bits mean different things for different (types of) tiles.
[12:51:00] <Yuv422> could it be how they join together
[12:51:13] <Yuv422> to form a dragon actor?
[12:51:20] <luteijn> in some cases yes. see the discusion on the dragon
[12:51:39] <luteijn> the trunk has all for directions set, each of the parts that go around it in a + shape
[12:51:49] <luteijn> only have the bit for the relevant direction set.
[12:52:00] <Yuv422> I think I might have exploited that when doing the dragon code
[12:52:05] <Yuv422> I can't remember
[12:52:33] <luteijn> so that's why I think these four bits hold some 'extra info' that the function using it knows is there, and how to use.
[12:52:54] <Yuv422> ls
[12:52:58] <luteijn> so for dragon a help in drawing it properly, for water, raft movement
[12:53:01] <Yuv422> heh whoops wrong window
[12:53:16] <Yuv422> sounds good
[12:53:21] <luteijn> for 'swamp' impediment factor.
[12:54:30] <luteijn> we'd have to disassemble game.exe to find the exact meanings. I guess we don't want to do that yet.
[12:54:59] <Yuv422> you will need to unpack the exe first
[12:55:16] <Yuv422> it is a compressed exe locader
[12:55:19] <Yuv422> IIRC
[12:55:34] <Yuv422> I had an unpacked version floating around somewhere
[12:56:25] <luteijn> anyway, it is self expanding so if you have enough time, and start at the start. you can unpack it ;) pre-expanded version is probably nicer..
[12:57:39] <luteijn> hmm wonder why the strings in game.exe are readable, that would be the first thing I'd compress ;)
[12:57:43] <Yuv422> ooh lots of warnings while building nuvie under xcode 2.1
[12:58:21] <luteijn> maybe also because wjp modified the configure setting to be in debug mode by default
[12:58:43] <luteijn> to prevent people form not noticing their functions don't return a value.
[12:58:48] <SB-X> people=me
[12:58:49] <Yuv422> this has to do with a different gcc I'd suspect
[12:58:53] <Yuv422> hehe
[12:59:10] <Yuv422> I've been trying to get sbx to pay attention to warnings for ages. ;)
[12:59:12] <wjp> gcc 4 gives more warnings than 3.x
[12:59:18] <wjp> at least, that's my impression
[12:59:18] <SB-X> kept forgetting to put -Wall back in
[12:59:22] <SB-X> ok
[12:59:34] <wjp> in gcc 3.3.5 nuvie compiled for me last night with -Wall -Werror
[12:59:36] <Yuv422> ls
[12:59:40] <Yuv422> argh
[12:59:49] <Yuv422> window focus issues tonight
[12:59:59] <SB-X> /names would work better
[13:00:42] <-- luteijn has left IRC (SendQ exceeded)
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[13:01:00] <Yuv422> Hmm SendQ exceeded?
[13:01:28] <luteijn> I shouldn't just type in things people on IRC tell me to do.
[13:01:34] <luteijn> people=sbx ;)
[13:01:40] <SB-X> !
[13:01:52] <SB-X> somehow I knew that's what happened
[13:02:05] <luteijn> it was the voice inside my computer that made me do it.
[13:02:16] <SB-X> but BitchX does warn you :)
[13:02:37] <SB-X> maybe /names #nuvie? :)
[13:02:58] <luteijn> yes, but then I read the help text and thought, 'ah there's not that many people on this channel. Let's try.."
[13:03:07] <SB-X> sorry about that anyway
[13:03:10] <SB-X> heh
[13:03:21] <luteijn> the usage is probably wrong, it says: - Shows names on current channel or [channel]
[13:03:30] <SB-X> it does that in x-chat
[13:03:51] <SB-X> what you did was more like ls -R /
[13:04:52] <luteijn> still better than "rm -rf / root/tmp_shit" which I did once...
[13:05:17] <luteijn> of course I didn't really want the 3rd space to be there..
[13:05:33] <SB-X> that's terrible
[13:06:18] <SB-X> i thought filename completion led to more mistakes but that looks like it wouldve been prevented if you depended on it instead of typing root
[13:06:39] <SB-X> oops, unless you're typing it from /
[13:07:37] <luteijn> Ididn't wait for it to finish though, in the end only some unimportant things were damaged. and now I just first do a cd /root then a rm -rf tmp_shit. maybe would be better to first give away the directory and then delete it as nobody...
[13:08:08] <SB-X> don't store any tmp_shit you'll want to rm -rf in /root?
[13:08:28] <luteijn> well I usually don't ;)
[13:09:51] * Yuv422 kills shamino with a glass sword
[13:09:56] <Yuv422> ouch!
[13:10:32] <Yuv422> Attack with ###-Shamino. swashbuckler killed!
[13:10:45] <SB-X> yay
[13:10:49] <Yuv422> I've got some work to do on the weapon selection and info display
[13:11:02] <Yuv422> but the basic combat seems to work well
[13:11:43] <Yuv422> oh and I've got to restricct the cursor based on the weapon range paramater
[13:11:47] <SB-X> still have to finish partyfollow and clean up monsterfollow a little bit before committing it
[13:12:02] <SB-X> halberds go 2 squares
[13:12:30] <luteijn> make it right first time, or people will be bugging on the forum for the rest of your life ;)
[13:12:54] <Yuv422> hehe, yes that's why it is in a cvs branch
[13:13:08] <Yuv422> not on the main trunk
[13:13:53] <Yuv422> my combat type
[13:13:56] <Yuv422> / obj_n, defence, attack, hit_range, attack_type, missle_tile_num, thrown_obj_n, breaks_on_contact
[13:14:19] <-- Kirben has left IRC ("System Meltdown")
[13:14:25] <Yuv422> I'm sure I'll tweek it a fair bit before I'm happy with it
[13:14:55] <Yuv422> tweak
[13:15:18] <luteijn> return's to wielders hand ?
[13:15:28] <SB-X> what's the difference in missile_tile_num and thrown_obj_n?
[13:16:03] <Yuv422> thrown obj is for flasks that turn into firefields on landing
[13:16:21] <Yuv422> missle tile is the tile that gets hurled through the air
[13:16:59] <Yuv422> so a flask of oil would have an oil tile as it is thrown but will turn into a firefield object when it hits
[13:17:09] <SB-X> ah
[13:17:14] <Yuv422> that's the theory
[13:17:38] <SB-X> do other missiles have "thrown_obj_n" set? (to know what they'll leave if they hit the ground)
[13:17:55] <luteijn> you might need to keep track if the missile tile needs to be rotated, and what the rotate offset is (i.e. sling stone shouldn't be rotated (shadow), arrow and bolts are at 90 deg compared to magic bolts. but maybe you need to stroe that per missile tile, not in this struct.)
[13:17:59] <Yuv422> luteijn: yes I need to handle the bomerang. :)
[13:18:25] <Yuv422> SB-X: yes
[13:18:44] <Yuv422> {OBJ_U6_CROSSBOW, 0, 12, 7, ATTACK_TYPE_MISSLE, TILE_U6_BOLT, OBJ_U6_BOLT, false },
[13:19:25] <SB-X> how about triple crossbow?
[13:19:41] <Yuv422> hehe good question
[13:19:50] <luteijn> the flying cannonball also doesn't need rotating. It's misnamed moonstone in that tileflag_data.txt document, btw.)
[13:19:56] <SB-X> :)
[13:20:12] <luteijn> ATTACK_TYPE_TRIPLE_CROSSBOW
[13:20:37] <Yuv422> the tileflag object names where generated from the objectname data
[13:20:47] <Yuv422> so that is a bug in the original data
[13:21:19] <luteijn> even for the maptiles?
[13:21:24] <Yuv422> I might end up with a function based weapon handler
[13:21:34] <Yuv422> so we can have different weapon styles
[13:22:41] <Yuv422> the look data is based on tile number
[13:23:09] <Yuv422> with multiple tiles sharing the same description
[13:23:35] <SB-X> you can never look at a cannonball, so they didn't bother to fix it (or didn't notice it)
[13:23:42] <Yuv422> yeah
[13:24:01] <luteijn> okay, in that case the original data _is_ wrong, as there's lots of missing names, and also the 'horse with rider' at the end is called Nothing too.
[13:24:59] <Yuv422> I guess the original developers never envisaged the data being looked at in this manner. :)
[13:25:38] <Yuv422> I got to think about MD and SE when working on the combat weapon system
[13:25:40] <luteijn> I thought you'd just annotated the tilenr 256-511 yourself, as those can never be looked at
[13:26:05] <Yuv422> nah it was pulled straight from the look data
[13:26:15] <Yuv422> brb
[13:34:21] <Yuv422> time for bed
[13:34:23] <Yuv422> cya
[13:34:30] <luteijn> good night
[13:34:58] <Yuv422> I'll try too clean up my combat branch and commit my latest changes soon
[13:35:04] <Yuv422> cya
[13:35:05] <-- Yuv422 has left IRC ()
[13:37:10] <SB-X> eh
[13:37:11] <SB-X> cya
[13:37:48] <luteijn> trying to come up with some better names for the tiles in range 256-511 some of them I'm not sure what they are..
[13:38:18] <SB-X> was going to mention the byte order thing
[13:38:27] <SB-X> which one?
[13:38:32] <luteijn> the one in sound
[13:38:41] <luteijn> where the ifdef is wrong
[13:38:52] <SB-X> yeah, I'll just fix it myself
[13:38:57] <luteijn> and he didnotice as he's a bigendian
[13:39:03] <luteijn> didn't notice
[13:39:09] <SB-X> i know what I was going to mention
[13:39:14] <SB-X> i mean which tiles don't you know?
[13:39:56] <luteijn> after the purple party buttons, there is the (/) slot nowt available thing, and then something blue
[13:40:26] <luteijn> looks like a blue butten with nothing on it. maybe it is quickly drawn over the button when pressed?
[13:40:59] <SB-X> the crossed out circle is for the hand location on the paperdoll and means you can't equip something in that hand
[13:41:11] <SB-X> because the weapon you have equipped takes both hands
[13:41:20] <luteijn> yeah that was just there for reference. the blue button I don't recognize
[13:41:30] <SB-X> oh
[13:42:06] <SB-X> i makes me think of the a,b buttons used in the gypsy questions
[13:42:13] <SB-X> but those are shapes
[13:44:32] <luteijn> a few tiles down is a weir magic 'cloud-like' thingy (between the projectiles)
[13:45:07] <SB-X> the A,B buttons are red on orange
[13:45:33] <SB-X> is it a ghost?
[13:45:51] <SB-X> no it's magic like you said
[13:46:05] <SB-X> i tried to avoid magic using enemies :p
[13:46:16] <luteijn> it might fit around the ghost?
[13:47:12] <luteijn> when the ghost is casting it might use this to 'glow' ? not sure
[13:48:21] <SB-X> it fits around the ghost
[13:48:26] <luteijn> there's no tiles for the explosion effect, does that use rotated fire-wand bolts arranged in a * shape?
[13:49:04] <SB-X> yes
[13:49:10] <SB-X> i thought the fire-wand used another tile
[13:49:36] <SB-X> sprite
[13:49:39] <luteijn> I think fireball uses the small flying fireball
[13:50:06] <luteijn> not sure about firewand, but I think in u6o they use the big one
[13:52:13] <SB-X> u6o uses the big ones for fireballs
[13:52:26] <luteijn> don't have the fireball spell in u6o ;)
[13:52:39] <luteijn> maybe the small one is the missle for explosion
[13:53:30] <SB-X> fireballs that sea serpents spit out
[13:55:27] <luteijn> naming all these animation frames also reminds me I don't like the way how u6o constantly animates everything.
[13:55:33] <SB-X> oh?
[13:56:14] <luteijn> bell is continously tolling, bellows blowing (by them selves)
[13:56:27] <SB-X> oh, that :)
[13:56:47] <luteijn> probably all the wind blown up by the bellows is ringing the bells.
[13:56:52] <SB-X> don't forget drawbridge winch
[13:57:17] <luteijn> why the crank is turning I don't know. but it doesn't even lift the drawbridge ;)
[13:57:30] <SB-X> can you use it in u6o?
[13:58:13] <luteijn> you can send a 'use' command for its location, but nothing is done with that. you can't open/close drawbridges
[13:58:28] <SB-X> since they use their own animation format it would be easier to fix in u6o than it was in nuvie
[13:58:32] <SB-X> ok
[13:58:34] <SB-X> i think the bellows was the same in u6
[13:58:38] <luteijn> so no need for telekinesis spell ;)
[13:59:01] <luteijn> is nuvie also not doing the animation right?
[13:59:12] <SB-X> no
[13:59:23] <SB-X> for the bellows
[13:59:39] <SB-X> actually it is, u6 constantly animates it too
[13:59:56] <SB-X> but if you find anything else that is constantly animating and shouldn't, let me know
[14:00:20] <luteijn> looking at what 'can' be animated, most if it should be animated all the time.
[14:00:34] <luteijn> you're doing the sundial correctly, right?
[14:01:04] <SB-X> we aren't reading the name correctly
[14:01:21] <SB-X> it thinks it's plural and says "Thou dost see sundial"
[14:01:42] <SB-X> you can also move it, not sure if that's supposed to be possible
[14:01:58] <SB-X> oh, it is
[14:02:03] <SB-X> and U6 named it incorrectly too :)
[14:02:23] <luteijn> hmm tileflag is wrong, no article
[14:03:13] <luteijn> so that's a feature ;)
[14:04:22] <SB-X> another interesting "feature"... you can push objects on walls through them
[14:04:35] <SB-X> go into a building and move a painting to the outside
[14:04:47] <SB-X> since the outside square isn't blocking u6 has no problems letting you do that :)
[14:04:55] <SB-X> and neither does nuvie
[14:05:03] <luteijn> probably because it doesn't know on which side of the wall it is.
[14:05:25] <SB-X> it's posted as a bug but I call it a feature
[14:06:41] <luteijn> if you want to fix it anyway you could figure out in which direction moving is not allowed based on the wall tile. sideways and away from the wall is ok, to the invis side is not.
[14:07:52] <luteijn> actually looks like the directional bits are already in place...
[14:08:24] <SB-X> moving sideways doesn't work currently
[14:09:30] <luteijn> if the bit in the directional bits is 1 then that direction the wall is blocking
[14:10:10] <SB-X> why didnt u6 fix it?
[14:10:59] <luteijn> forgotten? dunno. maybe it still has issues I didn't see when just glancing at the problem just now.
[14:21:07] <luteijn> hmm what times do the sundials swap their tile?
[14:21:08] <-- SB-X has left IRC ("brb")
[14:22:52] <luteijn> ah found them in tilemanager. same values as I guessed.
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[14:23:17] <luteijn> so did you ever get dhcp working?
[14:23:22] <SB-X> not yet
[14:23:27] <SB-X> trying to now
[14:23:43] <SB-X> TileManager::update_timed_tiles
[14:23:57] <luteijn> checked what it does under windows? do you get dhcp there (i.e. the 1 lease it has is given out when you check on the router)
[14:24:13] <SB-X> I only checked the dsl modem log
[14:24:44] <SB-X> I should check the other pages
[14:26:06] <SB-X> of course, it does get dhcp there
[14:26:27] <SB-X> it even shows a request before it was completely initialized
[14:26:47] <SB-X> but in linux it doesnt show any of the request (but its lights blink)
[14:27:43] <luteijn> hmm, try capturing windows' request and comparingit to your linux request.
[14:28:21] <luteijn> as the dslbox reacts differnt to them, ther must be a difference. so we then patch you dhclient ;)
[14:28:23] <SB-X> you mean ethereal?
[14:28:32] <luteijn> ethereal probably easiest.
[14:29:06] <luteijn> or tcpdump on a spare machine.. but I guess you only have one box available?
[14:30:54] <SB-X> ping
[14:32:08] <luteijn> pong
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[14:52:35] <sbx> hi
[14:54:37] <luteijn> /help fuckem
[14:54:59] <sbx> o_O
[14:55:00] <luteijn> hmm lots of help missing :(
[14:55:13] <sbx> BitchX?
[14:55:29] <luteijn> so I guess I'll have to keep guessing to the meaning, don't dare to try that sounds to omnious
[14:55:40] <sbx> hmm :)
[14:55:50] <sbx> I have no idea.
[14:56:24] <luteijn> it passing you the real IP might be some sort of switch over to a more transparant mode; didn't it have a tickbox for something like that (reviewing yesterdays log)
[14:56:30] <sbx> how would I show only DHCP messages in ethereal?
[14:56:43] <sbx> not sure
[14:56:48] <luteijn> using a 'filter'
[14:57:40] <luteijn> DHCP uses the bootp ports (67 and 68)
[14:58:18] <sbx> oh i see
[14:59:34] <luteijn> Let LAN device share Internet address was an option in the router; not sure if that is using some kind of special protocol to request the sharing..
[14:59:40] <sbx> bootp.dhcp?
[15:00:03] <sbx> the option was really Use a public or private IP address
[15:01:53] <sbx> care to see this capture?
[15:02:06] <luteijn> yes.
[15:02:13] <sbx> as far as I know it's "normal"
[15:02:30] <luteijn> and maybe capture linux' attempt at a request too.
[15:04:44] <sbx> ok I'll reboot and get it
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[15:09:48] <luteijn> I guess you'll be mailing the captures?
[15:09:54] <SB-X> ok
[15:09:57] <SB-X> yes
[15:10:33] <SB-X> still compiling ethereal
[15:11:03] <luteijn> oh, I just installed a package of it just now...
[15:11:22] <SB-X> what os distribution do you have?
[15:11:25] <luteijn> perhaps tcpdump > dump.bin will do?
[15:11:40] <SB-X> i can do that too
[15:11:42] <SB-X> any special options?
[15:13:25] <luteijn> hmm let me check if ethereal can read tcpdumps format..
[15:13:59] <SB-X> saved it as libpcap format
[15:15:19] <luteijn> should work. did you make it get the whole packets or just the first few bytes?
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[15:21:40] <EsBee-Eks> not sure why i got disconnected that time
[15:21:44] <EsBee-Eks> in xp just used the default options
[15:21:58] <EsBee-Eks> didn't know ethereal took so long to compile... about to run it out
[15:22:00] <EsBee-Eks> run it now*
[15:22:15] <luteijn> ok.
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[15:29:03] <luteijn> wb
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[15:29:10] <SB-X> thanks!
[15:29:13] <SB-X> that's much smaller
[15:29:31] <SB-X> even less than what tcpdump said last time we tried it
[15:29:37] <SB-X> sent the files to you
[15:30:05] <SB-X> it never gets to DHCP Request just DHCP Discover
[15:30:12] <luteijn> ok, I'll take a quick look now, and maybe more later, after cooking dinner. Just check if the files are useful ;)
[15:30:17] <SB-X> aye
[15:32:32] <luteijn> the linux trace has only 5 packets, I guess the windows trace has more because windows like to try to chat with its friendly neighbourhood boxes.
[15:32:52] <SB-X> yeah there are a lot of BROWSE packets
[15:33:58] <SB-X> and HTTP where I went to Google
[15:34:37] <SB-X> and other packets
[15:36:41] <luteijn> ok need to cook first, but looks like this is useful to compare what is different in the two discover files. You can also take a look yourself ofcourse.
[15:36:54] <SB-X> alright
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[16:08:22] <luteijn> SB-X I'll see what mine tries to send out over a spare interface
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[17:28:44] <luteijn> hmm if i run 'dhclient eth3' I get do get a packet for hardware type 'Ethernet', with a 6 byte hw (mac) address
[17:30:49] <SB-X> oh?
[17:30:49] <SB-X> wb
[17:30:53] <SB-X> is that abnormal?
[17:31:37] <luteijn> well looks like your 255 byte hw address and teh weird hardware type are abnormal to me ;)
[17:31:58] <SB-X> any way to override what dhclient sends?
[17:32:11] <SB-X> i could only get it to change the dhcp-client-identifier option
[17:32:38] <SB-X> and had to add a 1: before it for ethereal to recognize it
[17:32:49] <SB-X> i guess that's the standard format, didn't know :p
[17:33:00] <SB-X> but it doesn't change the lack of response
[17:33:03] <wjp> hm, I don't even have anything called 'dhclient' on my system
[17:33:19] * wjp looks
[17:33:26] <wjp> my dhcp client seems to be dhcpcd
[17:34:09] <luteijn> the router is probably ignoring you because it only knows how to repsond to ethernet, not to NET/ROM pseudo :)
[17:34:25] <luteijn> well you could try a different dhcp-client, like dhcpcd
[17:35:06] <SB-X> dhcpd is what slackware uses by default, and wasn't working itself
[17:35:28] <wjp> dhcpd is the server
[17:35:34] <luteijn> dhcpd is the server side daemon, dhcp_C_d the client daemon
[17:35:34] <SB-X> cd*
[17:35:38] <luteijn> ok
[17:36:06] <SB-X> want to try to fix the hardware address first
[17:36:07] <luteijn> dhcpcd probably also mis-represents the harware type in its discover packet
[17:37:28] <luteijn> the hardwaretype has to be right too, I would assume.
[17:38:04] <SB-X> that's just what I had ethereal listen too
[17:38:06] <SB-X> to*
[17:38:40] <luteijn> hmm make it listen on the ethernet interface then to get a more comparable trace ?
[17:39:33] <luteijn> capture -> interface
[17:44:46] <SB-X> eh, still says NET/ROM psuedo
[17:48:08] <luteijn> hmm sure you're not capturing on the 'any' device?
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[17:49:52] <SB-X> what the
[17:50:11] <SB-X> wjp: it worked this time
[17:50:52] <SB-X> luteijn: don't have it loaded anymore but the capture dialog and interfaces options both said eth0
[17:54:48] <SB-X> should have captured it again
[17:55:21] <luteijn> but it worked now? maybe you just had to wait for a while to have the old licence, given out to windows, to expire?
[17:55:24] <SB-X> well, thanks for the help
[17:55:28] <SB-X> maybe...
[17:55:58] <SB-X> but why didn't dhclient work? I tried it just a few minutes before dhcpcd
[17:56:31] * SB-X tests DCC file transfer.
[17:56:40] <luteijn> -:- DCC GET with SB-X[] established
[17:56:56] <SB-X> :D
[17:57:23] <SB-X> pictures of text are a little wasteful though
[17:58:05] <luteijn> let's see if I can send anything back
[18:00:34] <SB-X> got it
[18:00:42] <SB-X> that's even more pointless :p
[18:00:47] <SB-X> but that's great :)
[18:01:30] <luteijn> so now you can run your own webserver ;)
[18:01:41] <SB-X> and I'm unprotected from attacks
[18:02:09] <luteijn> well looks like most things are closed off anyway.. do you even run anything like sshd ?
[18:02:11] <SB-X> break-in attempts etc
[18:02:18] <SB-X> hmm
[18:02:25] <SB-X> yes
[18:03:50] <SB-X> tcp 0 0 ppp-70-248-90-189.d:ssh luteijn.xs4all.nl:35889 ESTABLISHED
[18:04:10] <SB-X> tcp 0 0 ppp-70-248-90-189.d:ssh luteijn.xs4all.nl:35889 ESTABLISHED
[18:04:12] <SB-X> oops
[18:04:30] <SB-X> it's not established anymore
[18:04:38] <luteijn> some evil hacker knocking at your door already ;)
[18:05:30] <luteijn> probably you already have tcpwrappers or something like it running?
[18:07:09] <SB-X> nothing except inetd
[18:08:39] <luteijn> but inetd might be spawning tcpd for port 22, which will check the hosts.allow and hosts.deny files, find I'm not allowed to use sshd and decide not to fire up a copy.
[18:09:20] <SB-X> yeah
[18:09:24] <luteijn> because something is accepting the connection to tha port ;)
[18:09:41] <SB-X> that's setup by default
[18:09:47] <SB-X> but I put all:local in hosts.allow
[18:10:13] <luteijn> I have the following in my hosts.allow:
[18:10:14] <luteijn> ALL:
[18:10:14] <luteijn> sshd: ALL
[18:11:12] <luteijn> (of course services that don't go through tcpd, like the client for u6o at port 22222 also work for everyone)
[18:13:13] <SB-X> in which file is it determined which go through tcpd?
[18:13:18] <SB-X> inetd.conf?
[18:13:25] <luteijn> yes/ inetd.conf
[18:14:04] <SB-X> very little is uncommented :p
[18:14:29] <SB-X> ssh isn't even in there
[18:14:48] <luteijn> nothing for port 22?
[18:15:23] <luteijn> could be that sshd is not being started from inetd. It isn't on my machine.
[18:15:40] <SB-X> yeah.... sshd is already running
[18:16:48] <luteijn> it knows to use tcp_wrappers, so also obeys your hosts.allow /deny files
[18:17:40] <SB-X> that's a relief
[18:19:02] <SB-X> I hope you didn't go to too much trouble with my tech support. Now I to get the dynamic-ip daemon to work. ;)
[18:21:25] <luteijn> I have a static IP, so wouldn't be of too much help with that.
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[18:30:10] <SB-X> can you try sb-x.dyndns.org?
[18:30:42] <luteijn> set to at the moment
[18:31:25] <SB-X> gee, that's nice
[18:31:38] <SB-X> i wonder who that is
[18:31:57] <SB-X> thanks for checking
[18:45:27] <luteijn> aap,noot,mies are dummy names like foo bar boz etc. (at least I use them that way)
[18:45:45] <SB-X> oi
[18:45:50] <SB-X> thought so
[18:46:13] <luteijn> they're actually the first couple of words people used to learn to read/write here.
[18:46:52] <luteijn> you can see i started with a fresh computer recently as 'locate aap' is only a short list ;)
[18:47:21] <wjp> :-)
[18:48:07] <luteijn> and there are not many subdirectories of /tmp that say 'really_tmp' 'deleteme' etc with dates in the prehistory..
[18:51:32] <luteijn> hmm a 300 watt powersupply for only 12.5 euro. I might get that one and hope it's less noisy. Or if it isn't it's cheap enough to try slowing the fan down...
[18:56:00] <SB-X> ok, sb-x.dyndns.org should be corrrect now
[18:56:30] <luteijn> looks good to me.
[18:56:40] <SB-X> changed dddclient to get the IP from eth0 interface
[18:56:43] <SB-X> ddclient*
[18:57:11] <SB-X> good
[19:01:06] <luteijn> spam..
[19:29:17] <luteijn> msg SB-X probably using AAlib, is your Display set properly?
[19:29:52] <SB-X> it's not set at all
[19:30:26] <luteijn> msg SB-X connect to u6o with u6o client, then press shift-M then shift Q that should fix your mouse.
[19:30:53] <luteijn> you need to start ssh with the -X option to set it to forward X
[19:30:58] <SB-X> it is
[19:31:13] <SB-X> what's the u6o client called?
[19:31:27] <luteijn> then it _should have set your display to :10 or :11 on dollar.
[19:31:31] <luteijn> client.pl
[19:31:46] <SB-X> /usr/local/u6o_client?
[19:31:47] <luteijn> or just telnet to dollar 22222
[19:31:47] <SB-X> ok
[19:32:02] <SB-X> that's how I did it before ;)
[19:32:55] <SB-X> it starts eating the mouse events right after running framer.pl
[19:32:55] <luteijn> but it probably works better if you start it directly by going to /usr/local/u6o_client then ./client.pl
[19:33:14] <luteijn> because aalib init tries to set the mouse to a different mode.
[19:33:26] <luteijn> client.pl also does that, but it sets it back on quit.
[19:33:46] <luteijn> the escape sequence is actually quite simple, bnut I don't know it by heart
[19:34:15] <SB-X> oh
[19:34:21] <SB-X> thought you meant so I could copy the error messages
[19:34:56] <luteijn> oh I can see the error messages too if I unset my display (and it even f*xors my mouse in the familliar way)
[19:35:32] <SB-X> the ascii-graphics in u6o client are looking better btw
[19:35:40] <SB-X> with blocks for the walls
[19:35:49] <SB-X> ok
[19:37:36] <luteijn> <esc>[?1000l probably fixes your mouse (echo ctrl-v<esc-key>....
[19:38:45] <luteijn> you might need to start ssh in verbose mode to see what's going wrong with the X forwarding.
[19:39:33] <luteijn> (ssh -X -v ...)
[19:40:37] <SB-X> i don't see any errors
[19:44:05] <luteijn> maybe I had x11 forwarding off by default?
[19:47:06] <luteijn> try the -C option, to compress things. might help
[19:47:35] <luteijn> X over a WAN is not ideal..
[19:47:49] <SB-X> now it returns an X Error
[19:48:04] <SB-X> and DISPLAY=localhost:10.0
[19:48:12] <wjp> try -Y instead of -X
[19:49:06] <luteijn> works fine for me if I login as you over ssh (you might want to change your password)
[19:49:34] <SB-X> nobody could ever guess that
[19:50:03] <SB-X> it's working now, thanks wjp
[19:50:16] <SB-X> u6 object file frame utility
[19:50:19] <wjp> look at the pentagram logs from a few hours ago :-)
[19:50:59] <SB-X> interesting
[19:51:01] <luteijn> ok, btw the commands for the framer are simple. g <enter> 512 <enter> goes to object 512
[19:51:03] <SB-X> thanks Fingolfin
[19:52:52] <luteijn> the object numbering is a little off but that's what framer is for actually ;) other commands '+' '-' '<return>' move around to next, previous, next object. 't' 'q' 'n' 's' 'f' change properties of selected object. try setting the size to '2x2' and frames to '16' to show a little bit more than one tile in the window
[19:54:37] <luteijn> 'r' resequences after you've changed size and/or frames. 'w' writes out a new copy of objects.dat in objects.new.
[19:55:41] <SB-X> ooh, the commands go to stdin
[19:56:10] <luteijn> yes. I like filters ;)
[19:56:43] <luteijn> almost bedtime.. goodnight all.
[19:56:53] <SB-X> cya
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