#nuvie@irc.freenode.net logs for 22 Aug 2006 (GMT)

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[08:55:56] <Yuv422> what do you guys think about using Lua for our usecode/magic scripts?
[08:56:07] <Yuv422> www.lua.org
[08:56:39] <Yuv422> it has a small footprint
[08:56:44] <Yuv422> it supports bytecode scripts
[08:57:14] <Yuv422> we can include the lua interpreter into the nuvie code base
[08:58:24] <Yuv422> bbl dinner
[09:15:30] <jargon> ?
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[09:19:51] <GhostBear> Hi all...
[09:22:44] * GhostBear pushed luteijn
[09:24:19] <jargon> Yuv422, Lua sounds good from the reviews i read
[09:24:32] <jargon> but what is the actual syntax?
[09:24:47] <GhostBear> May I ask someone about U6 online?
[09:25:15] <jargon> ??
[09:25:52] <GhostBear> huh?
[09:26:02] <GhostBear> -_-
[09:26:03] <jargon> i am just a newb to ultima
[09:26:09] <GhostBear> Me too!
[09:26:27] <GhostBear> I'm only 2-3 days ago find a way, how i can leave Castle of LB
[09:27:12] <jargon> talk sense
[09:27:29] <GhostBear> Is there any way for U6 online can be played in network?
[09:27:51] <jargon> i dont think they did that yet
[09:28:24] <jargon> bbl
[09:29:05] <GhostBear> :(
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[09:32:01] <GhostBear> Someone told me, that u6o can be played in network
[09:33:12] <GhostBear> Ah... Everyone is dead...
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[09:34:11] <GhostBear> Huh?
[09:38:02] <jargon> ?
[09:38:13] <jargon> i am back
[09:38:34] <GhostBear> So, there is no such ability?
[09:38:37] <jargon> i do not know what ultima six online is.
[09:39:05] <GhostBear> o_O
[09:39:13] <GhostBear> http://www.geocities.com/galleondragon/
[09:41:26] * jargon tinkers
[09:46:31] <GhostBear> I'm here?
[09:46:53] <GhostBear> Wheh... Stupid connection :P
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[09:52:00] <jargon> GhostBear yes u6o can be played online
[09:52:50] <GhostBear> Can it played in local network?
[10:06:22] <jargon> no i dont think so
[10:06:32] <GhostBear> :/ :(
[10:06:36] <jargon> you would need to have the server and be able to hack dns
[10:07:15] <GhostBear> hack dns? O_o
[10:07:25] <GhostBear> Where server can get getted?
[10:07:46] <GhostBear> :)
[10:08:01] <GhostBear> Where i can get a server?
[10:12:58] <Yuv422> hi guys
[10:13:07] <Yuv422> they aren't releasing the server
[10:13:18] <Yuv422> so you'll need to connect to the offical u6o server
[10:13:30] <Yuv422> It's windows only too
[10:13:36] <Yuv422> which counts me out
[10:13:38] <Yuv422> :-(
[10:14:02] <GhostBear> So this mean, what there is not way to play u6o by network :(
[10:14:18] <Yuv422> yes only online
[10:14:20] <Yuv422> not lan
[10:14:24] <GhostBear> I get it only with wishing to play in local network
[10:14:29] <GhostBear> :'(
[10:14:49] <GhostBear> luteijn say, what it can be played locally
[10:14:54] <GhostBear> Hm...
[10:16:32] <Yuv422> not that I'm aware of
[10:19:37] <GhostBear> hm...
[10:21:22] <GhostBear> What to do in u6o? O_o After generating character, i see just a flask with pixels and sound/music/voice control... o_O
[10:22:05] <Yuv422> I've never played u6o, sorry
[10:23:49] <GhostBear> :\
[10:45:43] <GhostBear> Is error while resting is bug or just non-finished? o_O
[10:47:18] * GhostBear pushed GhostBear
[10:47:28] * GhostBear pushed ChanServ
[10:47:28] <GhostBear> :P
[11:02:01] <GhostBear> All dead...
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[11:16:01] <Yuv422> wb GhostBear
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[11:20:56] <Yuv422> hi GBL
[11:21:23] <Yuv422> We've got quite a full channel at the moment. :-)
[11:21:30] <Yuv422> It's good to see
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[11:27:38] <GhostB> Uh
[11:27:43] <GhostB> So many me here :)
[11:27:53] <GhostB> Ghost Bear, GBL, GB and Ghost B :DD
[11:27:57] <Yuv422> hehe
[11:28:39] <GhostB> My cool connection being stupid again...
[11:28:53] <GhostB> It is so cool, so i want crap on it
[11:29:04] <Yuv422> I have trouble with my IRC connection too
[11:29:08] <Yuv422> It's a real pain
[11:30:16] <GhostB> yass yass
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[11:34:09] <GBL> GhostBear still owned :P
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[13:53:36] <SB-X> didnt luteijn make a u6 wiki?
[13:53:41] <SB-X> i mean nuvie wiki
[13:54:01] <SB-X> tileflags page was there, but i cant find it now
[13:55:00] <Yuv422> hey SB-X
[13:55:37] <Yuv422> the progress changes that you ordered are almost ready. :-)
[13:56:15] <SB-X> hi
[13:56:18] <SB-X> good to know
[13:56:39] <Yuv422> I've changed the colours around a bit too
[13:56:48] <Yuv422> and added column headers
[13:57:04] <Yuv422> Item Name, Cotact, Date Modified, Status
[13:57:08] <Yuv422> Contact
[13:58:13] <SB-X> ok great, i was wanting those too
[13:58:27] <luteijn> the nuvie part of the wiki is not hyperlinked to the rest of the wiki, but you ought to be able to get to it using luteijn.xs4all.nl/u6owiki/Nuvie
[13:58:31] <Yuv422> It's a bit of a hack though
[13:58:48] <Yuv422> the headers are appeaned after a H2
[13:58:54] <Yuv422> appended
[13:59:22] <luteijn> The tileflags document in cvs is probably slightly more up to date than the wiki-one.
[13:59:36] <SB-X> hi luteijn
[13:59:41] <SB-X> i asked because someone on the forum asked about it
[13:59:45] <Yuv422> hey luteijn
[13:59:52] <SB-X> asked about making a nuvie wiki
[13:59:56] <luteijn> re: lua for scripting. I hae no objections to it.
[14:00:33] <Yuv422> cool :)
[14:00:39] <luteijn> Yes, I started making a reply to that and the 'how can I help post', but got interrupted. Maybe it would be better to update the FAQ anyway.
[14:01:16] <SB-X> dont let me interrupt you :)
[14:01:29] <SB-X> thats another language i have to learn, after already getting used to new magic scripting
[14:01:42] <Yuv422> hehe
[14:01:48] <Yuv422> lua is pretty cool
[14:01:55] <Yuv422> from what I've been reading today
[14:01:56] <luteijn> SB-X: no, it was my little guy interupting ;)
[14:02:11] <SB-X> oh
[14:02:13] <SB-X> hows he doing
[14:02:25] <Yuv422> :)
[14:02:39] <luteijn> I read about lua a few months ago, someone on the gp2x forums was using it in his TripleTriad game.
[14:03:05] <SB-X> lol... I've got an unfinished TripleTriad game in my projects directory :\
[14:03:22] <luteijn> SB-X: He's ok, almost 10 months now. crawling around, trying to reach reset button of this PC ;)
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[14:03:47] <Yuv422> hehe
[14:04:13] <SB-X> reset? sounds like he doesnt like you working on nuvie
[14:04:14] <Yuv422> luteijn: have you introduced him to the goodness of ultima yet?
[14:04:21] <luteijn> well, that gp2x gmae also has a whole tile-based world around it, and scripted npcs to play the game against.
[14:05:09] <Yuv422> do you think we should distribute our scripts in bytecode or source?
[14:05:10] <luteijn> Yuv422: didn't get much beyond humming/whistling stones and rule britannia to him..
[14:05:18] <Yuv422> hehe
[14:05:57] <SB-X> re: tripletriad, that's what I was going to do! except it was going to be playable over the internet, where you could battle people for their cards
[14:05:59] <luteijn> Yuv422 The more human readable the better I'd say. maybe in the far future someone wants to do a newer-ultima-vi-enigine..
[14:06:14] <Yuv422> yeah
[14:06:42] <Yuv422> bytecode would stop people tampering with the scripts though
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[14:06:55] <SB-X> we can zip them up
[14:06:56] <Yuv422> and doing weird things to the game.
[14:07:02] <SB-X> put them in some package format
[14:07:09] <SB-X> ^-or
[14:07:29] <SB-X> then they couldnt change them accidentally
[14:07:31] <Yuv422> how about we include bytecode for the nuvie binaries
[14:07:35] <SB-X> but i guesss putting them in bytecode would do the same
[14:07:42] <Yuv422> and src in the source distro
[14:07:52] <luteijn> Yuv422: sounds good.
[14:07:57] <Yuv422> :-)
[14:08:13] <Yuv422> I'll look at intergrating lua into nuvie over the next couple of days
[14:08:17] <SB-X> re: lua... it looks like luteijn is the contact for the magic system so I'll defer to him to decide whether he wants to add it, even though it's another language I'll have to learn ;)
[14:08:19] <Yuv422> I don't think it will take long
[14:08:47] <luteijn> better borrow something good than invent something crappy yourself..
[14:09:15] <Yuv422> I think we can keep the Magic base
[14:09:21] <Yuv422> and the spell selection routines
[14:09:31] <SB-X> the current system is not crappy, the scripts are just hard for people unfamiliar with the format to get used to
[14:09:42] <luteijn> I think so too, just the script executioning would be replaced.
[14:10:05] <Yuv422> yeah the scripts are cool but a little daunting for the unfamiliar
[14:10:09] <luteijn> well the current system is far fom complete so you're 'scripting' at one level, and then implementing the langueage too :)
[14:10:15] <SB-X> true
[14:10:53] <Yuv422> eventually we can move lots of hardcoded engine logic into lua script
[14:11:13] <Yuv422> just keeping the intrinsic operations in the engine code
[14:11:33] <Yuv422> which should help with maintenance
[14:11:35] <SB-X> I still need to read up on lua. For usecode the scripts will have to be executed the way functions are now, with an object, an event, and several other arguments easily accessible. I prefer the model of one function to each object type.
[14:12:06] <Yuv422> yeah you can pass functions as variables in lua
[14:12:08] <Yuv422> i think
[14:12:22] <Yuv422> it also has interesting table data structs
[14:12:36] <SB-X> we can keep the u6usecode helper functions (like drawbridge_find_bridge) as hardcoded intrinsics
[14:12:55] <Yuv422> yes
[14:13:04] <Yuv422> then just expose them to the lua script
[14:13:32] <SB-X> im not set on how extra arguments are currently passed to uc functions, so if you want to change that method it's fine with me
[14:13:38] <Yuv422> if we expose objmanager methods to lua script we can go pretty low level in lua
[14:13:57] <SB-X> cool
[14:14:04] <SB-X> and it has a small footprint
[14:14:09] <Yuv422> yes
[14:14:24] <Yuv422> so we'll include it in the nuvie cvs
[14:14:29] <SB-X> i know python and ruby but i dont know how big they are incomparison
[14:14:43] <Yuv422> lua is about 200k all up
[14:14:43] <SB-X> ah k, that must be small then or you wouldnt want to include it
[14:14:50] <SB-X> heh
[14:15:10] <Yuv422> and we can chop bits off
[14:15:12] <SB-X> it sounds familiar in context of ultima... does xu4 use lua?
[14:15:16] <Yuv422> like the bytecode compiler
[14:15:25] <Yuv422> uwadv
[14:15:59] <SB-X> ah k
[14:16:03] <SB-X> never played underworld
[14:17:09] <SB-X> do you have a link to the lua primer? :)
[14:17:27] <luteijn> http://www.lua.org/pil/2.6.html
[14:17:33] <Yuv422> I was just reading the reference manual on www.lua.org
[14:18:08] <SB-X> thanks
[14:20:11] * luteijn is going out for a walk with his son.
[14:20:21] <SB-X> ok
[14:20:28] <SB-X> you teach him the virtues along the way
[14:20:34] <SB-X> you can*
[14:20:36] <SB-X> if you want to :
[14:20:38] <SB-X> :) *
[14:20:45] <Yuv422> cya luteijn
[14:21:50] * SB-X was just remembering the virtue parables that were posted on the U9 website at one time.
[14:26:56] <SB-X> about programming in lua says lua "is widely spread in the game industry, where knowledge of Lua is an indisputable asset."
[14:27:13] <Yuv422> :-)
[14:27:36] <Yuv422> have a look at the people using lua page on their website
[14:28:20] <SB-X> baldur's gate
[14:28:31] <Yuv422> yeah
[14:28:57] <SB-X> FarCry, World of Warcraft, MUSHclient
[14:29:28] <SB-X> now i feel stupid for not knowing it
[14:29:55] <Yuv422> no need for that.
[14:29:58] <SB-X> actually I think I knew about MUSHclient using it
[14:30:36] <SB-X> yeah i dont really feel stupid but i have no problem taking time to learn it now
[14:30:49] <Yuv422> ;-)
[14:31:15] <SB-X> because it sounds worthwile even besides using it for nuvie
[14:31:32] <Yuv422> yeah it's a good skill to have on your CV
[14:31:37] <SB-X> You dont really want to port most of Nuvie to a scripting language, do you? Could it really be that fast?
[14:32:11] <SB-X> or resume
[14:32:17] <SB-X> is what i was thinking of
[14:32:18] <Yuv422> well not the screen routines
[14:32:19] <SB-X> hehe
[14:32:32] <SB-X> ah k
[14:32:36] <Yuv422> or any time critical stuff
[14:32:46] <SB-X> what do you think of other scripting languages?
[14:32:48] <Yuv422> but some of the higher level stuff
[14:33:20] <Yuv422> being easy to add to the project was a big issue for me
[14:33:44] <Yuv422> I didn't want people to have to download and install more software just to run nuvie
[14:33:49] <Yuv422> eg python, perl
[14:33:51] <Yuv422> etc
[14:33:53] <Yuv422> ruby
[14:34:09] <SB-X> right
[14:34:11] <Yuv422> they are more well known languages but they are just too bulky
[14:34:38] <SB-X> i learned some ruby for rpgmaker
[14:34:38] <Yuv422> I like the fact you only need SDL and SDL_mixer to run nuvie
[14:34:50] <Yuv422> how is it?
[14:35:48] <SB-X> its fine, made me think a little of python when typing it (because it uses whitespace)
[14:36:02] <SB-X> but i didnt get very far with it yet because i havnt been working with rpgmaker for a while
[14:36:03] <Yuv422> for control flow?
[14:36:31] <SB-X> i wasnt really weighing it's qualities i just needed to learn it because thats what rpgmaker uses for scripting :)
[14:36:39] <Yuv422> right
[14:37:04] <Yuv422> want to have a look at the progress pages
[14:37:15] <Yuv422> and let me know what you think? :-)
[14:37:38] <SB-X> ok
[14:37:48] <Yuv422> I've still got to add the new status codes
[14:37:55] <Yuv422> and pick colours for them
[14:38:57] <Yuv422> I've added a date to the balloon entry on the main page
[14:39:11] <Yuv422> and some description line breaks
[14:39:26] <SB-X> balloon entry?
[14:40:03] <Yuv422> under vehicles
[14:40:15] <SB-X> oh i see
[14:40:20] <SB-X> it looks fine, i wondered how the date would fit
[14:40:43] <SB-X> that column could be wider
[14:40:56] <SB-X> and item name could be much smaller
[14:41:06] <Yuv422> I'm not too good with table layouts
[14:41:15] <SB-X> me neither
[14:41:26] <SB-X> could the headers be "outside" the table?
[14:41:40] <SB-X> so they are just aligned above the columns but not in boxes
[14:42:09] <Yuv422> I can remove the background and border
[14:42:16] <Yuv422> is that what you mean
[14:42:19] <SB-X> yeah thats a bit much
[14:42:29] <SB-X> and it doesnt need "Item Name" thats fairly obvious
[14:42:56] <Yuv422> remove that heading altogether?
[14:43:05] <Yuv422> or just name
[14:43:19] <SB-X> what
[14:43:49] <SB-X> both
[14:44:00] <SB-X> so its just contact date status
[14:44:12] <SB-X> and an empty space where item name is
[14:44:30] <SB-X> and if you widen the date column and change "Date Modified" to "Updated" or "Date" it will look better
[14:48:19] <SB-X> there will be plenty of room for the date column and anything else if the item name column is resized
[14:49:13] <Yuv422> I'm off to bed now
[14:49:21] <Yuv422> I'll look at those changes tomorrow
[14:49:22] <Yuv422> :-)
[14:49:32] <Yuv422> or feel free to change them yourself
[14:55:53] <Yuv422> cya
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