#nuvie@irc.freenode.net logs for 22 Jul 2006 (GMT)

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[00:42:25] <SB-X> hey yuv
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[01:03:41] <SB-X> :)
[01:07:39] <Yuv422> hey SB-X
[01:07:42] <Yuv422> how's things?
[01:55:19] <SB-X> hey yuv
[01:55:21] <SB-X> im going to sleep
[01:55:23] <SB-X> cyas
[01:55:26] <-- SB-X has left IRC ("*casts gate travel*")
[01:55:30] <Yuv422> cya
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[10:55:45] <Yuv422> wb SB-X
[10:58:36] <SB-X> heh
[10:58:36] <SB-X> ty
[10:58:43] <SB-X> how's it goign?
[10:59:02] <Yuv422> good
[10:59:13] <Yuv422> I'm just working on silver serpents
[10:59:42] <SB-X> great!
[11:00:02] <Yuv422> I've gathered the tiles
[11:00:09] <Yuv422> now I'm working on the move code
[11:00:17] <SB-X> are you going to make them expand?
[11:00:37] <Yuv422> did they do that in the original?
[11:00:55] <SB-X> yes!
[11:01:06] <SB-X> do you know what I mean?
[11:01:20] <SB-X> i assumed you knew that :)
[11:01:20] <Yuv422> getting longer?
[11:01:22] <SB-X> yeah
[11:01:45] <Yuv422> I guess i didn't hang around long enough to find out what they did. ;-)
[11:01:56] <SB-X> at least, I'm pretty sure they do, maybe im thinking of Worms
[11:02:22] <SB-X> the game where you move a worm and eat apples
[11:02:38] <Yuv422> hehe
[11:02:46] <Yuv422> nibbles et al
[11:03:11] <Yuv422> I've added another method to objmanager
[11:03:12] <SB-X> yeah that's it, not to be confused with Worms & Worms 3D which is completely different
[11:03:16] <SB-X> ok
[11:03:33] <Yuv422> Obj *ObjManager::get_obj_of_type_from_location(uint16 obj_n, uint16 x, uint16 y, uint8 z)
[11:03:33] <Yuv422> {
[11:03:33] <Yuv422> return get_obj_of_type_from_location(obj_n, -1, -1, x, y, z);
[11:03:33] <Yuv422> }
[11:03:34] <Yuv422> Obj *ObjManager::get_obj_of_type_from_location(uint16 obj_n, sint16 quality, sint32 qty, uint16 x, uint16 y, uint8 z)
[11:03:47] <Yuv422> well I've just changed it around a bit
[11:04:02] <Yuv422> so I can select an obj with a known quality/qty
[11:04:07] <Yuv422> from a given map location
[11:04:08] <SB-X> haha, i can't remember much about silver serpents myself now
[11:04:12] <SB-X> don't we have a function like that in UseCode
[11:04:17] <SB-X> or U6UseCode
[11:04:24] <Yuv422> hmm let me check
[11:04:31] <SB-X> no im thinking of that one
[11:04:42] <Yuv422> righto
[11:05:02] <Yuv422> it won't search or either qual or qty if you pass -1
[11:05:36] <Yuv422> I also did some more research into mutant actors
[11:05:53] <Yuv422> we will need to handle them at some stage too
[11:05:54] <SB-X> good thing there aren't any objcets with 65000 quality ;)
[11:06:07] <SB-X> objects*
[11:06:11] <Yuv422> hehe
[11:06:14] <SB-X> what's a mutant actor?
[11:06:18] <SB-X> i assumed that was unused
[11:06:21] <Yuv422> quality is 8bit IIRC
[11:06:29] <SB-X> yeah
[11:06:37] <Yuv422> to headed cows
[11:06:38] <Yuv422> etc
[11:06:48] <SB-X> oh, really? does it use the mutant flag?
[11:06:49] <Yuv422> all the creatures in suteks castle
[11:06:54] <Yuv422> yes
[11:07:06] <SB-X> interesting
[11:07:31] <SB-X> i just assumed they had a head object attached to them
[11:07:35] <Yuv422> in the egg embryo
[11:07:37] <SB-X> but that makes more sense
[11:07:54] <Yuv422> but I don't think the mutant info is saved in the temp actor in any way
[11:08:31] <SB-X> well I guess theyd use a head object but would still need a way to save that in the egg, so they use mutant flag
[11:08:31] <Yuv422> nuvie doesn't like reversed heads
[11:08:47] <SB-X> you mean if you save and load the game it breaks?
[11:09:11] <Yuv422> it can't handle the fact that the direction is flipped
[11:09:24] <Yuv422> so it just spins the head around to face forward
[11:09:33] <SB-X> u6?
[11:09:43] <Yuv422> nuvie
[11:09:47] <SB-X> ah
[11:09:58] <SB-X> k, what does u6 do?
[11:10:18] <Yuv422> it must know that a head object has flipped direction.
[11:10:26] <Yuv422> or some other hardcoded logic
[11:10:30] <SB-X> why didn't they just make a new actor type?
[11:10:46] <Yuv422> that's what I was wondering
[11:10:54] <SB-X> er, guess they'd need to duplicate tiles
[11:10:56] <Yuv422> it would have simplified things
[11:10:57] <SB-X> and they didn't want to
[11:11:18] <Yuv422> you could use the same tiles
[11:11:31] <Yuv422> just new entries in the tile lookup table
[11:11:43] <Yuv422> or am I forgetting something
[11:11:43] <SB-X> then how do you know its a different monster type?
[11:12:03] <Yuv422> different obj number
[11:12:07] <SB-X> that's what I mean, they'd use the same tiles but they'd have to duplicate them
[11:12:14] <SB-X> i thought obj mapped directly to tiles
[11:12:19] <SB-X> you mean there's a lookup table?!
[11:12:36] <Yuv422> yes
[11:12:57] <SB-X> wow, if I knew that I forgot about it
[11:13:04] <SB-X> thanks for reminding me
[11:13:27] <SB-X> then yeah they couldve just reused the graphics and made a new object
[11:17:24] <SB-X> I was about to say that some of the wingless gargoyles in gargland don't attack on sight, but then I realized I'm using Paulon's endgame savegame so the avatar has the amulet of submission that stops them. :p
[11:17:45] <Yuv422> hehe
[11:18:43] <SB-X> and behlem won't leave
[11:19:03] <Yuv422> glass sword
[11:19:32] <SB-X> Beh Lem killed!
[11:19:38] <SB-X> Thy sword hath shattered!
[11:19:44] <SB-X> thanks again
[11:19:57] <SB-X> that works :)
[11:20:00] <Yuv422> np
[11:20:14] <SB-X> the avatar conveniently had one in his inventory
[11:20:26] <SB-X> Paulon
[11:20:30] <Yuv422> I never leave home without one
[11:21:03] <SB-X> heh
[11:21:14] <SB-X> do you remember how to open the portcullises in tomb of kings
[11:21:32] <SB-X> oh I got it
[11:21:38] <Yuv422> k
[11:21:49] <SB-X> there are magically locked doors with switches behind them
[11:22:31] <Yuv422> unlock magic is high on my wanted spell list
[11:23:05] <SB-X> ok I'll add that one first
[11:23:22] <Yuv422> hehe
[11:23:31] <Yuv422> are you working on magic at the moment?
[11:24:14] <SB-X> no, I'm checking out silver serpents in u6
[11:24:25] <SB-X> testing if they grow
[11:24:31] <Yuv422> righto. :)
[11:24:33] <SB-X> doesn't look like they do after all
[11:24:40] <SB-X> that must have been in U6O
[11:25:04] <SB-X> they ARE various lengths, however
[11:25:30] <Yuv422> what's the range?
[11:25:32] <SB-X> i believe the egg document explains where their length is read from
[11:25:43] <Yuv422> yeah either qual or qty
[11:25:44] <SB-X> only seen 2 serpents so far
[11:26:11] <SB-X> the two ive seen were 6 and 5 squares long
[11:26:15] <SB-X> not counting the head
[11:26:42] <SB-X> they poison you
[11:27:43] <Yuv422> do we change direction before moving?
[11:28:02] <SB-X> no, usually after
[11:28:09] <SB-X> i wouldn't be surprised if we do it before sometimes
[11:28:19] <Yuv422> hmm
[11:28:23] <SB-X> since it hasn't been important what order you call them
[11:28:33] <Yuv422> moving a serpent is going to be a bit tricky
[11:29:04] <SB-X> when it's moving forward you could leave most of the objects in place
[11:29:16] <Yuv422> true
[11:29:36] <Yuv422> it gets a bit difficult when it decides to change direction
[11:29:42] <SB-X> and just add a new one at the front and delete the last one
[11:29:51] <SB-X> hmm
[11:30:01] <Yuv422> bits stick out the sides
[11:30:02] <SB-X> because objects are collected in move, and you don't know the direction?
[11:30:21] <Yuv422> because the shape changes
[11:30:28] <SB-X> you could morph the corners in a second pass
[11:30:35] <Yuv422> if it turns west from north
[11:31:05] <Yuv422> the objects need to go east
[11:31:24] <SB-X> start at the head when collecting objects :)
[11:31:54] <SB-X> why do they have to go east? they should already be there
[11:32:15] <SB-X> just add a new object right behind the head
[11:32:23] <SB-X> and delete the last object (the tail)
[11:32:24] <Yuv422> hmm let me try to explain with dodgy ascii art
[11:32:29] <SB-X> hehe ok
[11:32:55] <SB-X> in u6o they can trap you quite easily
[11:34:00] <SB-X> you can attack with a ring!
[11:34:25] <SB-X> Look-Thou dost see a ring. It weighs 0.5 stones and can do 30 points of damage.
[11:34:29] <SB-X> ???
[11:35:09] <Yuv422> hehe
[11:35:13] <SB-X> Attack with ring-silver serpent. Silver serpent heavily wounded.
[11:35:16] <Yuv422> spam bug object
[11:35:25] <Yuv422> 0000
[11:35:25] <Yuv422> 00^0
[11:35:25] <Yuv422> 0010
[11:35:25] <Yuv422> 4320
[11:35:26] <Yuv422> 5000
[11:35:37] <Yuv422> here is my first serpent
[11:35:47] <Yuv422> facing north
[11:35:57] <SB-X> ok
[11:36:06] <Yuv422> say it wants to face west
[11:36:10] <SB-X> youll have to remind me what methods get called too
[11:36:20] <Yuv422> 0000
[11:36:20] <Yuv422> 00<1
[11:36:21] <Yuv422> 0032
[11:36:21] <Yuv422> 0540
[11:36:21] <Yuv422> 0000
[11:36:28] <Yuv422> it will need to look like this now
[11:37:49] <SB-X> you mean:
[11:37:49] <SB-X> 0000
[11:37:49] <SB-X> 00<1
[11:37:49] <SB-X> 0002
[11:37:49] <SB-X> 0543
[11:37:49] <SB-X> 0000
[11:38:24] <Yuv422> I was trying to maintain the original layout as much as possible with my one
[11:38:40] <SB-X> perhaps I'm not observing their movement carefully enough
[11:39:02] <Yuv422> they seem to move sporadically
[11:39:08] <SB-X> :\
[11:40:02] <SB-X> they can cross over themselves too
[11:40:08] <SB-X> unlike in U6O
[11:40:13] <SB-X> :S
[11:40:23] <Yuv422> my code should handle that
[11:41:38] <SB-X> good
[11:42:44] <SB-X> i guess you just want to go over each object and attract it to the one before, but i dont understand why 3 moved up, but 4 moved right
[11:44:06] <Yuv422> just an idea
[11:44:11] <SB-X> perhaps related to the fact that 3 is straight and 4 is a corner
[11:44:18] <Yuv422> there's no real method ot my madness
[11:44:19] <Yuv422> to
[11:44:26] <SB-X> hehe
[11:44:38] <SB-X> but i thought you were saying that's what U6 did :
[11:44:39] <SB-X> )
[11:44:40] <SB-X> :)*
[11:45:00] <Yuv422> hehe no
[11:45:15] <Yuv422> the tail flicks around a bit too from what I can see
[11:45:22] <SB-X> i've got a serpent fleeing now because iolo pummeled it with the lightning bolts
[11:45:26] <SB-X> you mean in u6?
[11:45:37] <Yuv422> yes
[11:47:24] <SB-X> but when I corrected your chart you said you were trying to match u6
[11:47:54] <SB-X> the ones i see look closer to what I pasted to me
[11:48:03] <Yuv422> hehe no I ment original layout in my example
[11:48:18] <SB-X> er, they look closer to the movement example i pasted
[11:48:19] <SB-X> ah k
[11:48:21] <Yuv422> how the snake looked before the move
[11:48:26] <Yuv422> sorry
[11:48:32] <SB-X> np
[11:48:49] <SB-X> still curious how you do that
[11:49:24] <SB-X> so if its a corner next to a straight segment you try to keep it a corner next to a straight segment?
[11:49:49] <Yuv422> I think the original doesn't try to turn the snake before moving
[11:49:52] <SB-X> why did you move 3 up but 4 right?
[11:50:37] <Yuv422> to match the original shape
[11:50:55] <SB-X> i meant how :)
[11:51:06] <Yuv422> only moving the minimum amount of objects out of the original line
[11:51:23] <Yuv422> then getting back to the original line
[11:51:38] <SB-X> well I think in my example it's closer to that idea
[11:51:50] <Yuv422> :)
[11:52:11] <SB-X> otherwise it looks like the tail is sliding sideways
[11:52:23] <SB-X> in my example and I think U6 the only segment that cares care about the direction is the one right behind the head
[11:52:58] <Yuv422> yeah
[11:53:07] <Yuv422> and the tail
[11:53:15] <SB-X> if you look at it again you will see how simple it is
[11:53:27] <Yuv422> yes
[11:53:37] <Yuv422> just no turning on the spot
[11:53:39] <Yuv422> :-)
[11:53:47] <SB-X> well, the tail just cares about the segment in front of it
[11:54:28] <SB-X> he did turn
[11:54:43] <SB-X> I might be missing something they're supposed to do.
[11:55:12] <SB-X> do you apply a quality to each of the objects based on their position?
[11:56:06] <SB-X> they can't turn on the spot btw
[11:56:28] <SB-X> but neither can any other actor
[11:57:01] <Yuv422> what about nuvie?
[11:57:16] <SB-X> what about it?
[11:57:30] <SB-X> oh, that's what you meant by "I think the original doesn't try to turn the snake before moving"
[11:57:30] <Yuv422> can actors turn on the spot?
[11:57:44] <Yuv422> yeah
[11:57:47] <SB-X> no, direction is never changed unless they are moving to a new tile
[11:57:55] <SB-X> or attacking someone
[11:58:02] <SB-X> but the snake doesnt turn when attacking
[11:58:08] <SB-X> just imagine what that would look like
[11:58:16] <SB-X> the tail would go swinging around
[11:58:41] <Yuv422> yeah that's what I was imaginging
[11:58:57] <SB-X> their movement is somewhat limited
[11:59:01] <SB-X> its funny to see when it tries to flee
[11:59:30] <SB-X> it can move in a circle but if it comes toward you and gets trapped between your party and a wall, it can't turn away
[11:59:33] <SB-X> so it attacks
[11:59:39] <SB-X> it's trapped
[12:01:06] <Yuv422> :)
[12:01:06] <SB-X> i didn't realize you were turning on the spot in your example, i thought you'd MOVED left, and just moved the whole snake so it would fit :)
[12:01:17] <Yuv422> no
[12:01:26] <SB-X> i can see your problem then
[12:01:29] <SB-X> they shouldn't turn at all
[12:01:37] <Yuv422> yeah
[12:02:09] <SB-X> i can also see that paulon dragon obviously used the spam menu to his advantage :)
[12:02:23] <Yuv422> hehe yeah
[12:02:34] <Yuv422> he's fully stacked out with spammed goodies
[12:02:46] <SB-X> for a moment i was thinking the ring really could be used as a weapon and I'd forgotten about it :p
[12:02:46] <SB-X> ah
[12:02:53] <SB-X> havn't really examined his inventory
[12:03:01] <SB-X> it does show that you'll have to handle that in combat
[12:03:11] <Yuv422> :(
[12:03:26] <Yuv422> damn cheaters. ;-)
[12:03:27] <SB-X> perhaps you could get up to 8 attacks in one turn!
[12:03:34] <SB-X> hehe
[12:04:12] * Yuv422 wants swampboots that shoot fire balls
[12:05:00] <SB-X> i for one don't want to live in a world where u6 doesn't have the spam menu, and nuvie should compeltely support those magical spam creations
[12:05:21] <Yuv422> hehe yeah
[12:05:33] <SB-X> not that I cheat
[12:05:41] <Yuv422> of course not. ;-)
[12:06:04] <SB-X> just saying it's a good idea, and you already added support for the magical objects so why not? ;)
[12:06:13] <SB-X> this serpent is still going in circles
[12:06:46] <SB-X> now it's dead
[12:06:50] <SB-X> when a silver serpent dies it fades away
[12:07:08] <Yuv422> yeah
[12:08:14] <SB-X> argh, it got me in the end with its poison
[12:08:43] <Yuv422> oh that's what I was going to tell you
[12:09:03] <Yuv422> I think peergem uses floodfill blacking
[12:09:13] <Yuv422> but without objects
[12:09:21] <Yuv422> so no blocking doors or windows
[12:10:04] <Yuv422> I went into a walled room with only a ladder entry and got a square box on the peer gem
[12:10:16] <SB-X> it shows doors
[12:10:16] <Yuv422> no surrounding details
[12:10:25] <SB-X> oh you mean the blacking
[12:10:36] <Yuv422> yes
[12:10:50] <Yuv422> let me find you an example
[12:10:52] <SB-X> but when your in a dungeon can't you see the other parts of the dungeon?
[12:10:56] <SB-X> you're*
[12:11:10] <SB-X> so I didn't even know it had blacking
[12:11:51] <Yuv422> d3,ec,2
[12:12:17] <Yuv422> it makes sense
[12:12:27] <Yuv422> otherwise you'll see all the dungeon tricks
[12:12:53] <Yuv422> different dungeons right next to each other
[12:13:10] <Yuv422> the original shows a box
[12:13:14] <Yuv422> nuvie shows everything
[12:16:21] <Yuv422> weird I've got some corruption on the dungeon strip above the party view in the original u6
[12:17:16] <SB-X> keep trying to use alt-314 in u6 :p
[12:19:06] <SB-X> damn, I don't know what made me think it didn't use map blacking; thanks for telling me about it
[12:20:09] <SB-X> you say it doesn't take objects into account? that's probably why I assumed there wasn't blacking, because closing a door didn't change it
[12:20:35] <Yuv422> http://nuvie.sourceforge.net/temp/bug.png
[12:21:49] <SB-X> there's no corruption, they just apparently draw it differently
[12:22:06] <SB-X> that's interesting
[12:23:15] <Yuv422> is it always like that?
[12:23:26] <SB-X> like what?
[12:23:34] <SB-X> looks the same to me
[12:23:43] <Yuv422> not tappered off at the right
[12:23:51] <Yuv422> tapered
[12:23:54] <SB-X> your dosbox version looks the same as my dosbox version i mean
[12:23:57] <SB-X> yes
[12:24:12] <SB-X> was it ever different? i don't remember
[12:24:38] <Yuv422> they have an end tile (which we use in nuvie)
[12:24:51] <Yuv422> why wouldn't they be using it?
[12:25:29] <SB-X> i don't know why they would include the tile if they didn't use it
[12:26:10] <SB-X> it might be covered up by the border
[12:26:42] <Yuv422> could it be a bug with dosbox?
[12:27:48] <SB-X> i dont know, it probably isn't
[12:30:33] <SB-X> no it looks the same in u6 without dosbox :)
[12:37:13] <SB-X> the party list is also drawn a pixel too low in nuvie
[12:37:21] <Yuv422> :)
[12:38:57] <SB-X> well oddly enough part of it is drawn lower but the dungeon tiles are drawn a few pixels higher or lower relative to the party
[13:55:20] <SB-X> Yuv422: have you tested torches yet?
[13:55:35] <Yuv422> no
[13:55:47] <Yuv422> I was meaning to try that
[13:58:24] <SB-X> ok
[13:58:28] <SB-X> remember not to use dragndrop
[13:59:04] <SB-X> it's still broken, and the method of lighting isn't correct but it looks fine
[13:59:15] <Yuv422> righto
[14:01:13] <Yuv422> it doesn't seem to effect the lighting at all
[14:02:43] <SB-X> what if you pass?
[14:02:46] <SB-X> or move around
[14:02:52] <Yuv422> nope
[14:03:05] <SB-X> it works for me
[14:03:14] <Yuv422> I'm using smooth lightning
[14:03:28] <Yuv422> it works if I light the torch on the ground
[14:03:41] <SB-X> I'll try it with the new windows snapshot.
[14:04:01] <SB-X> we need a new osx snapshot btw :)
[14:04:12] <Yuv422> hehe yeah
[14:04:36] <Yuv422> I'm trying to get access to a new intel machine so I can test a universal binary
[14:04:45] <-- Kirben has left IRC (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out))
[14:07:03] <Yuv422> in the original it wouldn't let you light a torch on the map if you didn't have a spare hand
[14:07:11] <Yuv422> but I like the way nuvie works now
[14:07:15] <Yuv422> I think that is better
[14:08:47] <SB-X> yeah i couldn't justify adding a spare hand check just to duplicate that
[14:09:20] <SB-X> unless you really aren't supposed to be able to light another torch while your hands are full of torches
[14:09:45] <SB-X> but that doesnt make much sense because you can light torches when you have weapons, and you could light several on the map if you wanted to
[14:10:01] <SB-X> nuvie isn't working and it's not printing any errors in stdout.txt
[14:10:28] <Yuv422> hmm
[14:10:47] <Yuv422> how far do you get?
[14:11:36] <SB-X> after making a u6_save folder, it opens a window and then exits
[14:11:51] <SB-X> Loading Config from 'nuvie.cfg': Done.
[14:11:51] <SB-X> Attempting to set vid mode: 320x200x32x2 Software Surface
[14:11:51] <SB-X> Using scaler: Point
[14:15:02] <SB-X> it was to do with that install of u6; pointing to another one makes it load fine
[14:15:54] <Yuv422> hmm
[14:15:58] <Yuv422> bad data?
[14:16:23] <Yuv422> the pushme pullyu portrait flipping isn't working in nuvie
[14:16:55] <SB-X> not surprising... i didn't even know about it
[14:17:19] <Yuv422> I wonder how it's done
[14:18:18] <SB-X> i vaguely remember it
[14:18:40] <Yuv422> is it an opcode
[14:19:23] <Yuv422> time for bed
[14:19:38] <Yuv422> cya
[14:20:16] <SB-X> i dont know
[14:20:30] <SB-X> i dont get torchlight with smooth lighting either :\
[14:20:30] <SB-X> cya
[14:20:47] <Yuv422> I'll try to get some more work done on silver serpents tomorrow
[14:20:49] <Yuv422> cya
[14:21:02] <SB-X> ok
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