#nuvie@irc.freenode.net logs for 24 Jan 2014 (GMT)

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[21:47:52] <Yuv422> Hi guys
[21:48:03] <Malignant_Manor> Hello
[21:48:07] <HiPhish> Hi Yuv
[21:48:11] <Yuv422> I've worked out how to see the end sequence in MD without running the game
[21:48:27] <Yuv422> which should help when we go to implement it
[21:51:13] <Malignant_Manor> I tried to get push event to allow quantity selection when moving an object in the inventory, but that failed due to the scroll input problems.
[21:51:23] <HiPhish> And I have been learning how to program in C (though that's not really relevant to the topic)
[21:52:15] <Malignant_Manor> You probably know how to code better than me then.
[21:53:46] <HiPhish> I have been reading "The C Programming Language" and now I'm trying to write my first application: Newton's method
[21:53:54] <HiPhish> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Newton%27s_method
[21:54:28] <HiPhish> It's a simple iterative formula, how hard could it be? Well, I think i might have chewed off a bit too much for a first program…
[21:56:04] <HiPhish> Netwon's method is actually very simple, but how do you get there? You must take the user's function input as a string, parse it into something the computer can process and then calculate the derivative of the function. I think I have most parts figured out now.
[21:57:36] <HiPhish> I parse the input string using a read-only Turing machine, hand each read token to a variation of the Shuntin-Yard algorithm and use it to construct an abstract syntax tree. Last week I had no idea what half of those things even mean.
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[22:02:13] <Malignant_Manor> I've never even done hello world.
[22:02:28] <HiPhish> Then how on earth are you coding Nuvie!?
[22:02:52] <Malignant_Manor> Modifying code is different.
[22:04:22] <Malignant_Manor> You can use examples already in the code.
[22:05:09] <Malignant_Manor> A lot of bug fixing is just finding logic errors in existing code that isn't too hard to understand.
[22:06:47] <HiPhish> I don't think I could do that. I had already taken a look at Nuvie's code but then I just ran away in terror. I can't find my way around in someone else's code unless it's extensively documented or I invest *a lot of* time.
[22:07:25] <Yuv422> there are studies that prove that reading code is a lot harder than writing it
[22:07:55] <Yuv422> Nuvie's code is over 10 years old ;-)
[22:08:03] <Malignant_Manor> I mostly suck at producing my own code without good examples.
[22:08:16] <Yuv422> and when I started I didn't know a lot about how the original game engine worked
[22:08:26] <Malignant_Manor> Nuvie's indentation makes me want to run away.
[22:08:40] <Yuv422> hehe
[22:08:58] <Malignant_Manor> spaces, tabs, then spaces, then maybe repeat that some more
[22:09:09] <Malignant_Manor> (all on the same line)
[22:09:19] <Yuv422> yeah that's due to multiple different editors being used
[22:09:38] <HiPhish> Are you the original author, Yuv?
[22:09:38] <Yuv422> we should really just force spaces
[22:09:45] <Yuv422> HiPhish: yes
[22:09:59] <Malignant_Manor> Noooo. Tabs are much better for indentation.
[22:10:00] <Yuv422> I started the project in march 2003
[22:10:15] <Yuv422> Malignant_Manor: which editor do you use?
[22:10:22] <HiPhish> +1 for tabs.
[22:10:26] <Malignant_Manor> Notepad++
[22:10:26] <Yuv422> you can get your editor to replace tabs with space
[22:11:07] <HiPhish> I know :P What was your original motivation for even starting this? Was DOSBox not yet mature enough?
[22:11:15] <Malignant_Manor> Yeah, then you have to determine the size of a tab in characters.
[22:11:20] <Yuv422> the problem with the tab is how different editors choose to render it. How long should a tab be on the screen
[22:11:34] <HiPhish> 4 spaces.
[22:11:46] <Malignant_Manor> tab is for indentation. Spaces are for lining up.
[22:12:37] <HiPhish> That's my opinion as well. Although it really doesn't matter, as long as there is just one standard enforced.
[22:12:37] <Yuv422> HiPhish: yeah dosbox wasn't really an option I was using bochs. I guess I saw the work that exult was doing and thought I could do the same for my fav ultima. U6
[22:12:53] <Malignant_Manor> HiPhish: I find that a file search engine to find stuff I need to look at is nice.
[22:13:24] <Yuv422> unfortunately not long after I started dosbox high the big time and nuvie lost a lot of relavence
[22:13:25] <Malignant_Manor> Windows is okay at it (at least XP) but fails with lots of characters like !
[22:14:09] <Malignant_Manor> We have a lot more now with the better interface and higher game sizes.
[22:14:28] <Malignant_Manor> We still lack in a lot of things over the original.
[22:15:15] <Malignant_Manor> Sfx in attacking and spells are lacking. What background sfx is programmed, doesn't work, but the background sfx are awful.
[22:15:18] <Yuv422> yeah now it's a different story
[22:16:10] <Malignant_Manor> The move in inventory/container quantity selection really needs to make it in.
[22:16:14] <Yuv422> reversing the PC speaker effects is hard. ;-)
[22:16:16] <HiPhish> Most of the missing things I barely noticed. Let's see how many I know of: missing monster sounds (shanking ground), missing companions telling when there are monsters near, missing ambient sounds and music instruments not working.
[22:16:40] <Malignant_Manor> telescope doesn't work
[22:16:54] <Yuv422> I was just going to mention the telescope
[22:17:01] <Malignant_Manor> I don't see why not when wizard eye spell works.
[22:17:05] <Yuv422> that's on my short term todo list
[22:17:17] <Yuv422> I'd like to do it in the new lua usecode system
[22:17:32] <Yuv422> Malignant_Manor: I'm on it
[22:17:41] <HiPhish> Well, to be fair I barely played vanilla U6, I only use it if i find something fishy in Nuvie to make sure if it was liek that in the original.
[22:23:28] <Malignant_Manor> I'm currently very early in a play through of U6 and will cheat to victory (to save time) while still doing enough testing.
[22:29:09] <Malignant_Manor> I don't really feel like playing through U6 though.
[22:29:48] <Yuv422> hehe
[22:30:31] <Malignant_Manor> It's not that good of a game and I think U6O grinding killed it for me.
[22:30:45] <Malignant_Manor> I call it Ultima Fetch Quest.
[22:31:25] <Yuv422> lol
[22:31:28] <HiPhish> For me it's the best Ultima I have played so far (aside from Underworld possibly)
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