#nuvie@irc.freenode.net logs for 26 Jul 2005 (GMT)

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[11:23:04] <luteijn> help
[11:23:22] <wjp> hm?
[11:23:31] <luteijn> wrong window :)
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[11:46:05] <SB-X> hi
[11:46:13] <luteijn> hiya
[11:47:49] <luteijn> found some time to play with sdl and perl some more
[11:49:33] <SB-X> that's cool... i was wondering if I should learn perl
[11:49:43] <SB-X> you finished the tile displayer then?
[11:50:33] <luteijn> well I'm trying to add animation of animated frames to it.
[11:52:00] <SB-X> any problems?
[11:53:05] <luteijn> trying to find teh best way to do it. Maybe I should import the tileflags and use them.
[11:54:02] <SB-X> I looked at that thread on the forum with all the info on file formats and such, and it did in fact describe some of the tileflags.
[11:54:20] <SB-X> Sorry I forgot about those the other day when talking about the unknown flags. :)
[11:54:25] <SB-X> assuming they are correct
[11:55:27] <luteijn> with what is there (haven't read it again) and what we (re-)figured out, and eric's 'secret knowledge' someone should compile a new tileflags document
[11:55:53] <SB-X> some of the documents are saved but forgot where and had to look at the forum
[11:56:16] <SB-X> heh, secret knowledge... yes a few of the u6 docs need updating
[11:59:43] <luteijn> did you do anyhting with magic yet? you sort of promised our 2-3 people fanbase on the the forum.
[12:00:07] <SB-X> no, but I stand by "a few days"!
[12:01:52] <SB-X> I'm only incorporating your code though, not adding any spells or the spellbook display.
[12:03:14] <SB-X> the forum post about tiles gives two fields, TerrainType char bit 0: wet 1: impassable 2: wall 3: damaging 4: west bits 4-7: impedance (if passable) 5: south 6: east 7: north, and TileFlag char bit 0-1:light level (0-3) 2: opaque 3: window 4: foreground 5: blocks missiles 6: double tile (vertical) 7: double tile (horizontal)
[12:05:07] <luteijn> I think that matches what we have; especially the double use of bits 4-7 as directional bits and impedance
[12:05:53] <SB-X> ah that's right, thought it might mean impendance in that direction
[12:07:43] <luteijn> just read the post on the forum about the windows musci sounding bad. actually it does sound worse on windows than on linux.
[12:07:59] <SB-X> thought I tested it
[12:08:23] <SB-X> it worked for me in the past, without and SDL_AUDIODRIVER changes
[12:08:26] <SB-X> any*
[12:08:56] <luteijn> but not so bad (imho) as when the endian-bug was in. more like something like a fire sound popping in the background.
[12:09:07] <SB-X> maybe its a fireplace?
[12:09:23] <luteijn> well do we have sound effects yet?
[12:09:51] <SB-X> there are a few sound effects added to test it
[12:09:58] <SB-X> i think they will be replaced
[12:10:27] <SB-X> don't know if they are included in the snapshot distribution; they'd be in u6_sounds
[12:13:01] <luteijn> hmm linux nuvie is not playing any pops through the song when standing at throne, windows was.
[12:13:02] <SB-X> was thinking about fixing actor movement so they move multiple steps in one turn, but will wait until committing what else I have finished first
[12:13:18] <SB-X> i don't hear them either
[12:13:42] <luteijn> sound under linux is fine after the endiandetection was fixed.
[12:14:04] <Kirben> What sound effects ? in CVS ?
[12:14:18] <SB-X> i didn't hear them because I didn't have sound directory set, now I do :)
[12:14:26] <SB-X> not sure if they are in CVS
[12:14:46] <luteijn> hmm if you turn around, the party seems to jump into formation as if they are taking 2 steps (although not displaying the intermediate step, or displaying it too slow)
[12:15:42] <SB-X> they can take 2 steps without showing it
[12:16:01] <SB-X> if they would still be non-contiguous with the party after only taking 1 step
[12:16:21] <SB-X> only multiple steps in NPCs are displayed
[12:16:26] <SB-X> or shown, as they walk
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[12:16:54] <SB-X> what I'm not sure about is how it determines the number of steps they get
[12:17:07] <SB-X> it's usually 4 but anywhere from 2 to 5
[12:17:26] <SB-X> don't see how it's dex since various townspeople have different dex
[12:17:38] <luteijn> maybe related to dex and terrain-impedance?
[12:17:54] <SB-X> terrain-impendance should normally be 0
[12:18:30] <luteijn> does one npc always get the same number of steps, or it varies between 'moves'?
[12:18:35] <SB-X> it varies
[12:19:06] <luteijn> maybe it's overdrafting its DEX, then has less dex to use the next move (or carrying over dex from last move)
[12:19:43] <SB-X> i think it's more consistent in combat
[12:19:54] <SB-X> you can then see how some enemies get more moves per dex
[12:20:20] <SB-X> but when just walking to their next schedule locations it could be anything
[12:20:55] <SB-X> if you have dosbox, stand in the throneroom passing before lunchtime
[12:21:05] <SB-X> it helps to carry a clock with you :)
[12:21:37] <luteijn> maybe they 'bump' into eachother and that seems to waste moves?
[12:21:53] <SB-X> no, geoffrey and nystul walk in different paths
[12:22:18] <SB-X> looking at the throne room reminds me, you shouldn't be able to sit to the right of lord british
[12:22:30] <SB-X> i thought that was a place for chuckles to sit, but you couldn't sit there in U6 :)
[12:23:06] <luteijn> probably there issome hint to that in the tileflags for the 4 parts of the throne.
[12:23:10] <SB-X> we just get the tile number from that location and sit there since it matches chair
[12:25:58] <SB-X> I looked at your nuvie doc yesterday. Forgot how much information it had. :)
[12:26:17] <SB-X> alt codes
[12:26:37] <luteijn> the problem is keeping it updated. I just don't have the time to do it properly.
[12:27:53] <SB-X> that's ok; don't even know if we link to it from the main site
[12:28:27] <SB-X> what do you think of mose's palace?
[12:28:34] <luteijn> probably not ;)
[12:28:55] <luteijn> all his things are pretty big. not too useful I guess. Although it looks good.
[12:29:52] <luteijn> they should base the cost of building on the number of base tiles used, howmany of those had to be terraformed into something else (grass->dirt = cheap, water->mountain = $$$)
[12:30:31] <luteijn> then also charge upkeep, which if you don't pay it means your wall tiles will slowly degrade
[12:31:31] <luteijn> that would keep people form building too big a structure, unless they can keep it up.
[12:33:48] <SB-X> i like charging per square tiles
[12:33:53] <luteijn> could even have people build walls one by one, then place them on their land. (complete with 'construction complete' sound effect)
[12:33:59] <SB-X> wouldn't the house degrading be like UO?
[12:34:11] <luteijn> don't know about uo.
[12:34:23] <SB-X> my personal game designs include constructing houses
[12:34:54] <SB-X> but I think houses in UO slowly degrade
[12:34:59] <SB-X> when you don't use them
[12:35:05] <SB-X> servus would know
[12:35:26] <SB-X> i couldn't told Mose "no" :)
[12:35:46] <SB-X> but it's been done well
[12:36:13] <luteijn> look at wall. Thou dost see a brick wall. It is in mint/new/good/average/poor/crumbling condition.
[12:38:06] <luteijn> Well if you get charged a realistic price for initial terraforming, building and upkeep, things that big wouldn't be build (unless you have a powerful guild, and there is a lot more treasure to be found). people would make a small house that fit in the existing terrain. then maybe if they ever got enough money, they'd extend it a little.
[12:42:23] <SB-X> guilds? I think houses in U6O are a bit much to begin with
[12:42:35] <SB-X> not too expensive, just too big a feature
[12:43:18] <SB-X> all the apartments aren't even filled, are they?
[12:43:25] <luteijn> well it is something that is just on the edge for me. I would definatley not have added it at this stage in the development though
[12:43:38] <SB-X> yeah
[12:43:46] <luteijn> there's far more apartments than players.
[12:44:37] <SB-X> I think they really just wanted to add a second floor to the castle, which is why they wanted the apartments there so much.
[12:44:47] <luteijn> and if I'd added it, I would have let people make their own house and it would be theirs, not a rented thing.
[12:45:26] <luteijn> the second floor (or basically any extra floors) is a good idea, but I'm not sore if I like the way it is done.
[12:45:36] <luteijn> sure
[12:46:18] <luteijn> you ought to be able to shoot arrows at people form the tower, or it's useless..
[12:47:01] <luteijn> but well, it's galleon's game, so he gets to set the priorities.
[12:48:16] <SB-X> heh
[12:48:21] <SB-X> there isn't anyone to shoot at :)
[12:48:33] <SB-X> the rooms should probably look like the avatar's room downstairs
[12:48:33] <luteijn> finn
[12:48:42] <SB-X> oh yeah
[12:49:00] <SB-X> yes i'd be willing to make him target-able
[12:49:06] <SB-X> and attackable
[12:49:48] <luteijn> You feel less virtueous than before. But a whole lot better.
[12:54:32] <SB-X> hehe
[12:54:50] <SB-X> I guess there's a little Lord British in us all.
[12:56:53] <luteijn> 4 frames per second looks like a reasonable animation rate.
[12:57:59] <SB-X> nuvie animation looks a little different than in dosbox, but that's probably not a good comparison
[12:58:12] <SB-X> as far as tile animation speed goes
[13:24:50] <luteijn> hmm there's 3 tiles that look like the 'sky' and 'horizon' display in the tileset.gif, but either they're unpacked wrong, or the game does something funny to pull them wider apart.
[13:26:33] <SB-X> it looks normal here
[13:27:21] <luteijn> hmm in my copy it seems the 'air' between the ceiling and floor is missing.
[13:29:05] <SB-X> which tiles am I looking at?
[13:29:33] <luteijn> tiles 372, 373, 374.
[13:30:00] <luteijn> might be just something wrong with u6tiles.GIF. should really make my own version of it..
[13:30:52] <SB-X> oh
[13:31:04] <SB-X> the one displayed underground?
[13:31:21] <luteijn> in nuvie you just blit those tiles as is, so probably the u6tiles.GIF is wrongly decoding them.
[13:31:21] <SB-X> looks the same here, not sure how nuvie uses them
[13:31:25] <SB-X> oh ok
[13:35:49] <luteijn> what is tile 386 representing?
[13:36:27] <SB-X> inventory
[13:37:17] <luteijn> ah.
[13:37:33] <SB-X> somebody dumping objects out of a bag
[13:37:44] <SB-X> or the bag dumping it's objects itself
[13:40:02] <luteijn> did we come to a conclusion on 390 yet? looks like an empty blue button to me, but is it ever used?
[13:41:19] <SB-X> no on a conclusion
[13:43:09] <luteijn> hmm maybe it is used when the antimagic field is in effect to cover up the magic button?
[13:43:52] <SB-X> always played a fighter avatar myself
[13:44:07] <SB-X> does the storm cloak have the same effect?
[13:44:11] <SB-X> i can test it
[13:44:31] <SB-X> strangely dosbox stops taking keyboard input if I alt-tab out of it
[13:44:37] <SB-X> after letting it capture the mouse
[13:44:49] <luteijn> I was going to try the strom cloak. I think it wil just say something like 'no magic at this time' but want to make sure :)
[13:44:59] <SB-X> ok
[13:45:04] <SB-X> I don't know where any cloaks are anyway.
[13:45:19] <luteijn> jaana's cabinet, next to the stone circle in yew
[13:45:40] <SB-X> ok thanks
[13:45:46] <SB-X> iolo has an infinite supply of them too
[13:46:42] <SB-X> looks more like snow than rain
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[13:47:11] <luteijn> not sure if it should look liek rain, or just a magic 'interference'
[13:47:34] <SB-X> it's a storm isn't it?
[13:47:52] <SB-X> the way it looks in U6 you could imagine it either way
[13:48:27] <SB-X> you can imagine the dots are raindrops falling in any direction
[13:48:35] <SB-X> and it starts to look like that
[13:50:44] <SB-X> but that is ruined when you still see it in a building
[13:51:42] <luteijn> hmm unless you imagine there is a roof on the building, that is invisible.
[13:51:47] <SB-X> is there even a time limit on the storm cloak? it lasts much longer than in u6
[13:51:52] <SB-X> heh, that works
[13:52:05] <luteijn> probably like the wand a % chance to disappear
[13:52:40] <luteijn> hmm I don't see it blue-out the magic button, so I guess that's not where it's used
[13:52:40] <SB-X> oh is that how wands work? thought they used quality
[13:52:46] <SB-X> no
[13:53:32] <luteijn> well I think thats how wands rings etc work. I used to hit save often, and then just reload when they decided to disappear. either that reset their quality too.
[13:54:19] <SB-X> perhaps they count down quality and then when it's 0 there is a % chance to disappear
[13:54:39] <SB-X> else wouldn't there be a chance you'd get no charge out of them?
[13:55:03] <SB-X> would be interesting to see roofs on buildings in u6, similiar to u7
[13:56:28] <luteijn> If the 'blackout' tiles are different for the walls and the 'inside' of the house (and differnt again from those used for unreachable parts of the dungeon, perhaps something could be rigged that looks nice.
[13:57:05] <luteijn> of course in nuvie/u6o you could make new tiles for roof and display them as needed.
[13:58:11] <SB-X> would have to be in nuvie/u6o, couldn't do it for original u6
[13:59:56] <SB-X> can it be automatically done based on the tiles below, or do you need a new map layer like U6O?
[14:00:29] <SB-X> of course in nuvie you don't need an entire new map layer, but one for each chunk
[14:00:30] <luteijn> well there is a lot of different 'black' tiles in the tile set. I doubt it, but they /could/ have used a different tile to black out a wall than for a part of the dungeon and a different one again for light limits
[14:00:56] <SB-X> yeah, no idea what all those black tiles are for
[14:01:13] <SB-X> do they all have the same name?
[14:01:40] <luteijn> maybe left over slots in their tileset. I think they're in the part of the tileset that doesn't have many names (or rong ones like moonstone instead of cannonball)
[14:01:50] <luteijn> wrong
[14:03:58] <SB-X> that makes sense then
[14:04:24] <SB-X> as in replacing tiles to test the white potion effect, you could replace each of them with a different color and see where u6 places them
[14:05:09] <luteijn> we'd have to find/make a tile editor for u6 first.
[14:05:53] <luteijn> you can't spam those first 512 tiles, isn't it?
[14:06:59] <SB-X> you can only spam objects, some object would have to use them
[14:07:16] <SB-X> but that won't tell you where u6 uses them
[14:07:47] <luteijn> but they might somehow get a better name.
[14:08:11] <SB-X> you can spam another object using those tiles but it probably uses the original object name
[14:10:58] <luteijn> downloading pu6e to edit those tiles ;)
[14:11:06] * SB-X grins.
[14:11:09] <SB-X> forgot it had that
[14:11:18] <SB-X> is that written in perl?
[14:12:42] <luteijn> python afaik
[14:19:28] <luteijn> bleh uses all kinds of crap I don't have installed.
[14:22:01] <SB-X> wxwindows
[14:22:15] <SB-X> or wxgtk
[14:30:33] <luteijn> looking at more tiles it looks like author of u6tiles.GIF doesn't unpack completely blank lines in a tile properly.
[14:35:23] <SB-X> some examples?
[14:36:06] <luteijn> tiles 440 442
[14:36:18] <luteijn> (light beams before going into the lenses)
[14:53:20] <SB-X> oh I see
[14:53:36] <SB-X> don't remember exactly what they looked like in u6
[14:54:15] <SB-X> i was afk watching the space shuttle launch
[14:55:07] <luteijn> It went ok, I hope?
[14:56:55] <SB-X> yes it was outstanding
[14:57:00] <SB-X> went great
[14:59:26] <luteijn> hopefully there will be no serious problems with the shuttle for a while. Just enough little annoyance to make them work on a beter system though.
[14:59:55] <SB-X> heh, I didn't know they had to wait two days before going to the space station
[15:02:29] <SB-X> the japanese astronaut on board was joking around on camera before launch
[15:03:04] <SB-X> but back to U6... looking at the light beam tiles, are you saying they are drawn too high up?
[15:03:56] <luteijn> I think the empty spacing between the lines of light is missing.
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[15:07:54] <SB-X> hmm... I wonder if that is working in nuvie
[15:08:23] <luteijn> probably, as it is also decoding the dungeon 'skyline' properly.
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[15:11:11] <SB-X> but do we even let you place the lenses
[15:11:20] <SB-X> and show the light beam effect
[15:11:59] <luteijn> I'll try it out :)
[15:13:19] <luteijn> hmm pressing 't' then '4' should start conversation with Iolo, instead makes you go into solomode
[15:14:46] <SB-X> really? never knew that
[15:15:19] <SB-X> then there is a bug there with selection too
[15:15:24] <SB-X> you can still select who to talk to
[15:15:33] <luteijn> try in dosbox. also you're not supposed to be able to talk in solomode, but nuvie lets you (and dupre uses avatar's name to respond to iolo)
[15:16:00] <SB-X> Talk-Solo Mode Iolo Talking to yourself?
[15:16:42] <SB-X> heh
[15:16:54] <SB-X> "I've still got to tell you that story about Dupre sometime."
[15:17:03] <SB-X> thanks for the report
[15:17:11] <SB-X> two bugs there and one unimplemented feature
[15:19:01] <SB-X> bbl
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[15:19:06] <luteijn> I can drop the lens.
[15:19:09] <luteijn> no light though
[15:20:34] <luteijn> also the 'select combat mode' button (red, with crossed swords) is not supposed to be on the avatar's inventory pane
[15:26:34] <luteijn> bbl
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[17:28:00] <SB-X> i'm back
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