#nuvie@irc.freenode.net logs for 29 Jul 2006 (GMT)

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[01:49:22] <Yono> hi Yuv422
[01:49:34] <Yuv422> hi Yono
[01:50:17] <Yono> I saw your picture of Nuvie running on the GP2x
[01:50:21] <Yono> pretty cool
[01:50:21] <Yuv422> I'm holding off on the gp2x port
[01:50:35] <Yono> yes, luteijn told me
[01:50:39] <Yuv422> until we revamp the interface
[01:50:49] <Yuv422> :)
[01:50:57] <Yono> sounds good
[01:51:29] <Yuv422> I can give you a copy of my nuvie gp2x bin
[01:51:37] <Yono> that sounds great
[01:51:41] <Yuv422> but it isn't release worthy
[01:51:56] <Yono> alright
[01:52:00] <Yono> what you could do
[01:52:15] <Yono> is release the source to the gp2x port to archive.gp2x.de
[01:52:39] <Yono> that way, people can look at it, but you won't hear noobs complaining about functionality
[01:53:10] <Yuv422> I'll just get noobs asking how to compile it. ;-)
[01:53:55] <Yono> good point
[01:54:31] <Yono> I was glad to see that the daily snapshot was updated recently, which is more than I can say about some of the projects I have been checking out
[01:54:57] <Yuv422> hehe thank kirben for that
[01:54:59] <Yuv422> :)
[01:55:09] <Yuv422> he is our win32 snapshot maintainer
[01:55:29] <Yuv422> I'm not so good with my os x snapshots
[01:55:41] <Yono> haha, I noticed
[01:55:50] * Yuv422 fires up the gp2x to look at the nuvie bin
[01:56:33] <Yuv422> how much better is the 2.0 firmware
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[01:56:54] <Yuv422> oh no I've scared him off
[01:57:00] <Yuv422> ;-)
[01:57:31] <Yono> much better
[01:57:56] <Yono> I recently talked to a dev who gave up on an openGL renderer because of the crappy old firmware
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[01:58:07] <Yuv422> wb Kirben
[01:58:12] <Yono> but is planning to take it back up due to the ease from 2.0
[01:58:27] <Kirben> re
[01:58:54] <Yuv422> hmm I don't seem to have any input control in the latest nuvie bin
[01:59:11] <Yuv422> I must have been playing around with something
[01:59:57] <Yono> you should really update, cuts boot up time down to about 5 seconds
[02:00:32] <Yuv422> yeah I am running 2
[02:00:58] <Yuv422> sorry my post before was a statement not a question. ;-)
[02:01:10] <Yono> ah, I understand now
[02:01:42] <Yuv422> we're planning some big interface mods for nuvie
[02:01:53] <Yuv422> after we get u6 functionality mostly completed
[02:02:04] <Yuv422> I think I'll add gp2x support back in then
[02:02:43] <Yuv422> officially
[02:02:56] <Yono> sounds good
[02:03:16] <Yuv422> like luteijn said my orgiginal tinkering was just a proof of concept
[02:03:28] <Yono> right
[02:04:14] <Yuv422> could you make the nuvie text a link to our website on the wiki?
[02:04:43] <Yuv422> on the wip page
[02:05:03] <Yuv422> oh
[02:05:14] <Yuv422> that's for more wiki detail
[02:05:16] <Yuv422> sorry
[02:05:19] <Yuv422> forget that
[02:06:10] <Yono> actually, you're right, I forgot to add that
[02:06:46] <Yuv422> :-)
[02:06:58] <Yuv422> I'm always looking for exposure for the website
[02:07:05] <Yuv422> speaking of the website
[02:07:12] <Yuv422> we should update the news soon
[02:07:56] <Yono> yes, Nov. 05 seems like quite a while ago
[02:09:35] <Yono> might give one the impression the project was dead (like me, until I saw the snapshot)
[02:09:45] <Yuv422> yeah
[02:10:23] <Yuv422> I prefer the term dormant
[02:10:59] <Yono> ;)
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[02:20:02] <Yuv422> google earth left 100M of cache data on my computer
[02:20:44] <Yono> it eats up quite a bit of ram while it runs too
[02:20:45] <Yuv422> 111M cache for quicktime
[02:21:14] <Yuv422> I can imagine
[02:21:23] <Yuv422> it's a pretty cool app
[02:21:42] <Yono> yes, but make sure you don't put on too many overlays/models at once
[02:24:04] <Yuv422> Yono: are you developing anything for the gp2x at the moment?
[02:25:41] <Yono> no, I only made it up to pointers when learning C, so I don't have the capability to develop
[02:26:01] <Yono> so I maintain the wiki as my contribution to the community
[02:31:10] <Yono> so have you started work on the new interface, or is it just next on the list?
[02:37:45] <Yuv422> it's on the todo list
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[02:38:38] <Yuv422> Yuv422: it's on the todo list
[02:38:39] <Yuv422> Yuv422: we're still thinking about ideas
[02:41:28] <Yuv422> I'd like to make a u7 style conversation interface
[02:41:54] <Yuv422> using the highlighted keywords
[03:04:25] <Yono> I know what you're talking about
[03:04:51] <Yono> I should go, but I wish you luck on Nuvie and hope to hear from you in the near future
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[05:10:46] <SB-X> hello
[05:10:55] <SB-X> Yuv422: you there?
[05:54:11] <Yuv422> hey SB-X
[05:54:23] <Yuv422> sorry I was afk
[05:54:40] <SB-X> np
[05:54:52] <SB-X> just finished writing and committing the ChangeLog :P
[05:55:00] <Yuv422> cool
[05:55:18] <Yuv422> I've fixed up my new serpent routine
[05:55:39] <SB-X> what's it do differently?
[05:55:39] <Yuv422> I'm just putting in variable length
[05:55:53] <SB-X> oh, ok
[05:56:03] <SB-X> you think in the future that will allow for length set from egg?
[05:56:33] <Yuv422> I'd like to see how it works in the original first
[05:56:44] <Yuv422> we are just going off eggs.txt at the moment
[05:56:57] <Yuv422> it might just be random in the original
[05:57:42] <Yuv422> do you think snake length is important?
[05:58:05] <Yuv422> can you get really small snakes in the original?
[05:58:29] <Yuv422> I moved nuvie_game_t typedef in to nuviedefs.h
[05:58:55] <Yuv422> so I could use the type in EggManager
[06:06:35] <SB-X> sorry I was afk
[06:06:44] <Yuv422> hehe np
[06:06:48] <SB-X> i've never seen a 2 part snake
[06:07:11] <Yuv422> I might print out all the snake eggs and see what values we get
[06:07:12] <SB-X> for anything longer i never stayed around long enough to size them up
[06:07:30] <SB-X> we know what values the eggs have
[06:07:44] <Yuv422> ah the egg list
[06:07:50] <Yuv422> where did I put that
[06:08:17] <SB-X> well I didn't think of that, I just meant that's not what we're missing it's the snake sizes
[06:09:08] <SB-X> hey i looked at savemanager, why is creating a new savedir when one is missing commented out?
[06:09:53] <Yuv422> it might be unix specific code
[06:10:11] <SB-X> i've got snakes attaching eachother
[06:10:14] <SB-X> ah k
[06:10:22] <SB-X> it doesnt work in windows either
[06:10:41] <SB-X> 2 snakes in the room are chaotic and 2 are evil
[06:12:01] <Yuv422> hmm
[06:12:17] <Yuv422> from an original savegame?
[06:12:22] <Yuv422> or via nuvie?
[06:13:06] <SB-X> i really broke the snake by dragging it's parts around with hackmover :)
[06:13:10] <SB-X> via nuvie
[06:13:21] <Yuv422> interesting
[06:13:34] <Yuv422> from the same egg?
[06:13:44] <Yuv422> I guess they are from diffferent eggs
[06:14:05] <SB-X> same egg
[06:14:08] <SB-X> they were in the same room :)
[06:14:30] <Yuv422> how can that happen?
[06:14:43] <Yuv422> egg qty 4
[06:14:47] <Yuv422> snake length 5
[06:14:50] <Yuv422> in the original
[06:14:57] <SB-X> so far all the eggs I've seen have quantity 100 (although they aren't always hatching), and serpents with 5 quantity and 11 quality
[06:15:11] <SB-X> interesting, good thing we checked
[06:15:17] <SB-X> where did you see an egg with qty 4?
[06:15:29] <SB-X> you mean the snake? where did you see that?
[06:15:32] <Yuv422> 63,2b,4
[06:15:46] <Yuv422> embryo
[06:15:48] <SB-X> that's the dungeon I'm in now ;)
[06:15:50] <SB-X> right
[06:16:00] <SB-X> "peasant critical!" ?
[06:16:28] <SB-X> alright, that one has 4, the others have 5
[06:16:38] <SB-X> havn't checked what kind of snakes they spawn in the original
[06:17:13] <Yuv422> maybe embryo qty = snake body bits
[06:17:20] <Yuv422> not including the tail
[06:17:23] <Yuv422> or head
[06:17:44] <SB-X> i think it wouldn't include the head
[06:18:00] <SB-X> it might be more interesting with random sizes ;)
[06:18:08] <Yuv422> hehe
[06:18:20] <SB-X> 3-7
[06:18:57] <SB-X> that's not including the head again
[06:19:09] <Yuv422> that sound good
[06:19:24] <SB-X> do you have the gimp installed?
[06:19:38] <Yuv422> yes
[06:20:11] <SB-X> ok, i've uploaded a mockup of what the nuvie interface could look like, if we can get variable scaled dialogs
[06:20:36] <Yuv422> to sf.net
[06:20:56] <SB-X> if you want to see it: http://luteijn.xs4all.nl/~sbx/nuvie-interface_mockup.xcf
[06:21:00] <Yuv422> ah k
[06:21:01] <Yuv422> cool
[06:21:03] <SB-X> nope
[06:21:04] <SB-X> heh
[06:21:23] <SB-X> also http://luteijn.xs4all.nl/~sbx/nuvie-interface_mockup-2.xcf
[06:21:26] * Yuv422 downloads
[06:21:52] <SB-X> even with scaled windows/dialogs we may be able to make the border unscaled
[06:22:05] <SB-X> if you preferred
[06:25:33] <Yuv422> I was thinking about talk u7 style
[06:25:45] <SB-X> windowless?
[06:25:47] <Yuv422> without windows
[06:25:48] <Yuv422> yes
[06:26:06] <Yuv422> just their portraits
[06:26:18] <Yuv422> maybe some background shading
[06:26:21] <SB-X> i dont really prefer either way
[06:26:31] <SB-X> except you'd need a new font or a background
[06:26:42] <SB-X> that font is hard to see overlaid on the map
[06:26:56] <SB-X> it might look better with an outline
[06:27:01] <SB-X> or dropshadows
[06:27:12] <Yuv422> yeah
[06:27:28] <Yuv422> I was also thinking about preserving the original res
[06:27:37] <Yuv422> so we can run it on the gp2x for instance
[06:27:46] <SB-X> i think we should have low-res and hi-res modes
[06:27:57] <Yuv422> that makes sense
[06:28:00] <SB-X> if you were in the low-res mode then obviously everything will have 1x scale
[06:28:13] <SB-X> in hi-res some things will be scaled up like the map
[06:28:21] <SB-X> (if you set it to do so in the config)
[06:28:31] <Yuv422> sounds good
[06:28:32] <SB-X> also in hi-res some new features might be added to dialogs
[06:28:42] <SB-X> those which wouldn't fit in low-res dialogs
[06:28:55] <Yuv422> what about separate inventory and paperdoll views
[06:29:09] <SB-X> i prefer them together for each actor
[06:29:24] <SB-X> the difference with u7 is it has a backpack
[06:29:27] <Yuv422> you could also have bags and chest dialogs too
[06:29:31] <SB-X> we could make it so containers open their own dialog
[06:29:34] <SB-X> yes :)
[06:29:38] <Yuv422> hehe yeah
[06:29:55] <SB-X> did you see talk v2 with the clickable keywords?
[06:30:07] <Yuv422> yes
[06:30:09] <Yuv422> :)
[06:30:10] <SB-X> ah k
[06:30:16] <SB-X> cool
[06:30:21] <SB-X> it looks kind of like the fmtowns version
[06:30:24] <Yuv422> I was thinking about that style for the gp2x
[06:30:27] <Yuv422> yeah
[06:30:34] <Yuv422> with a freetext option
[06:30:45] <SB-X> what's that?
[06:30:46] <Yuv422> that opened a min onscreen keyboard
[06:30:52] <SB-X> oh
[06:30:53] <Yuv422> mini
[06:31:09] <Yuv422> freetext words would be added to a custom dictionary
[06:31:24] <Yuv422> which you could click from too
[06:31:30] <SB-X> oh, I see
[06:31:43] <SB-X> like a second keyword box
[06:31:52] <SB-X> or in the same one
[06:31:59] <SB-X> after the default keywords
[06:32:04] <Yuv422> I think we are going to have fun playing with the interface
[06:32:08] <Yuv422> yes
[06:32:32] <SB-X> yeah, we should think through the system design ahead of time anyway
[06:32:39] <Yuv422> true
[06:33:05] <SB-X> before implementing it I mean
[06:33:16] <SB-X> the mouse-use is the same as u7
[06:33:31] <SB-X> except object descriptions can go to the scroll
[06:33:33] <SB-X> not sure about that
[06:33:45] <SB-X> and holding the button over an object or actor will popup a command button menu
[06:34:00] <SB-X> drag the mouse over a button and release to perform that action on the object/actor
[06:34:17] <SB-X> the actions for the avatar are rest/cast/combat mode
[06:34:25] <SB-X> this gives you access to those commands without using the keyboard
[06:34:46] <Yuv422> did you ever play the gba u6 based on nuvie?
[06:34:58] <Yuv422> I like that idea
[06:34:59] <SB-X> no! never heard of it
[06:35:04] <Yuv422> really?
[06:35:23] <SB-X> I think I played GB runes of virtue. :)
[06:35:34] <SB-X> but no U6 on GBA (don't have a GBA)
[06:36:51] <Yuv422> http://notrecause.free.fr/u6/
[06:36:58] <SB-X> http://ultima.rpgdot.com/index.php?hsaction=10077&newsid=27183
[06:37:05] <SB-X> oh you found a link already
[06:37:05] <SB-X> thanks
[06:37:45] <SB-X> that's very cool you can play it on the website
[06:38:00] <Yuv422> yeah
[06:38:23] <SB-X> except you cant anymore :(
[06:38:47] <SB-X> is this the same person that said on the nuvie forum they were porting nuvie to gba?
[06:38:56] <Yuv422> yes
[06:39:03] <SB-X> ah nice
[06:39:06] <SB-X> ok
[06:39:18] <SB-X> i wonder if thats what he continued using
[06:39:42] <SB-X> this doesn't work in firefox
[06:39:51] <Yuv422> yeah ie only
[06:40:17] <SB-X> does he do anything special with the interface?
[06:40:25] <SB-X> i can't check it now
[06:40:39] <Yuv422> you had a popup command selector
[06:40:52] <Yuv422> use,get,look etc
[06:41:06] <SB-X> oh, hehe cool :)
[06:41:12] <SB-X> i was going to use the command icons for that
[06:41:25] <SB-X> the ones on the commandbar, that way there is still some use for them
[06:42:01] <Yuv422> maybe we could make that customisable
[06:42:15] <Yuv422> using the original tiles by default
[06:42:59] <Yuv422> have a look at the screenshots on the website
[06:43:11] <SB-X> don't know how to get there :)
[06:43:21] <SB-X> would you prefer your own icons?
[06:43:33] <Yuv422> lower left room
[06:43:56] <Yuv422> maybe just letters
[06:44:05] <SB-X> we might just backport his menu code into nuvie :)
[06:44:07] <SB-X> ah k
[06:46:23] <Yuv422> do you think a longer serpent is a harder enemy?
[06:46:38] <SB-X> i didn't think about it
[06:46:48] <SB-X> it could trap you but that would be somewhat random
[06:47:16] <SB-X> a 3 length one couldn't hardly trap you at all
[06:47:31] <SB-X> they can move over eachother's bodies
[06:47:36] <SB-X> other snakes
[06:47:39] <SB-X> but you can't
[06:47:42] <Yuv422> qty 4 is the smallest I've seen
[06:48:15] <SB-X> i know but with 3 you really start to notice the difference from the longer ones
[06:48:51] <Yuv422> do you think making the length random would effect playablility?
[06:49:05] <Yuv422> eg making earlier dungeons too easy
[06:49:20] <Yuv422> too hard that should be
[06:49:31] <Yuv422> and later dungeons too easy
[06:51:18] <SB-X> don't really know how big the effect would be
[06:51:23] <SB-X> what earlier dungeons have snakes?
[06:51:35] <Yuv422> hehe true
[06:52:03] <Yuv422> 35,63,3 is a qty 8 snake
[06:52:30] <SB-X> If you want to make a more sensible range of 4-6 go ahead. I prefer the larger range so the player can see a more dramatic difference in sizes.
[06:52:36] <SB-X> oh
[06:52:47] <SB-X> does ti make a qty 8 snake?
[06:52:48] <SB-X> it*
[06:52:59] <Yuv422> yes
[06:53:06] <SB-X> cool
[06:53:18] <SB-X> 3-8 :)
[06:53:20] <Yuv422> I think the size is meant to reflect the area
[06:53:29] <SB-X> yeah
[06:53:31] <Yuv422> the larger snakes are in open areas
[06:53:53] <SB-X> that would be an argument for using the egg data
[06:54:01] <Yuv422> yes
[06:54:01] <SB-X> although they didn't vary the size that often
[06:55:24] <SB-X> When you said area at first I thought you said arena. That's what the place is. :)
[06:55:54] <Yuv422> hehe snake combat arena
[06:56:59] <Yuv422> 4,5,6,7,8
[06:57:06] <Yuv422> are the snake lengths
[06:57:54] <SB-X> that's what I figured, it's good they use them all but I never noticed in the game
[06:58:17] <SB-X> 8b,33,4 is an egg that sometimes spawns evil snakes
[06:58:21] <SB-X> in nuvie
[06:58:47] <Yuv422> what alignment do you get from the original
[06:58:51] <Yuv422> at that location?
[06:59:40] <SB-X> well I didn't know there were 7 and 8 length snakes :)
[06:59:43] <SB-X> no, anywhere
[07:00:00] <SB-X> i'll check what it spawns in the original
[07:00:11] <SB-X> its usually chaotic in nuvie
[07:00:23] <Yuv422> the quality is 11
[07:00:28] <Yuv422> like all the other snakes
[07:05:15] <SB-X> is that chaotic?
[07:06:17] <SB-X> well I don't know how to check in the original, i just know they dont attack eachother because there's only one of them
[07:06:58] <Yuv422> could we be changing alignment after they are created
[07:07:01] <Yuv422> for some reason
[07:08:09] <SB-X> checking
[07:11:53] <SB-X> we need a ActorManager::update_actors() or Player::set_mapwindow_centered() call when loading a new game
[07:12:27] <SB-X> if we already do, can you look at update_temp_actors() to make sure it's still working properly?
[07:12:58] <SB-X> currently if you are in the throne room and load a new game, the gargoyles don't spawn until you move around a few squares
[07:13:12] <Yuv422> yeah I noticed that the other day
[07:13:45] <SB-X> the only change I made was to move the objblk change to outside the function
[07:22:04] <SB-X> Ok, the eggs are set to default, so the snake alignment is whatever init() set it to, which is sometimes 4, sometimes 2, and sometimes 1. Oddly enough, init() only sets the alignment if the current alignment is default.
[07:22:35] <SB-X> so the fact that it's gone between 1,2,and 4 is just random
[07:22:52] <SB-X> it's uninitialized
[07:23:16] <Yuv422> ah k
[07:23:16] <SB-X> but in the constructor it's initialized to neutral
[07:23:22] <SB-X> :\
[07:24:05] <SB-X> why does init() check the original alignment?
[07:24:37] <SB-X> default is only for hatching eggs
[07:24:43] <SB-X> only useful*
[07:25:30] <Yuv422> I originally thought objlist had default alignment set
[07:25:34] <Yuv422> in status flags
[07:26:06] <Yuv422> that was before we added 1 to the status alignment
[07:26:28] <SB-X> oh ok, so you read from objlist before calling init()
[07:27:17] <SB-X> i'm not sure how to fix this so I'll leave it up to you
[07:28:49] <Yuv422> righto
[07:29:11] <Yuv422> brb
[07:29:23] <luteijn> hmm original doesn't care about the order of the spell syllables. vwy vyw even wvy will all cast peer. afaik all the spells are unique syllable combinations anyway. theres a 'hint' to this in those 'old docs' from the origin-person (where they add a syllable to diambiguate a spell).
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[07:31:01] <luteijn> I think my magic engine only accepts the 'right' order, to make more spells possible. The right order being the one that's actually in the game.exe..
[07:32:13] <luteijn> but of course it could be modified to work just like the original by just sorting the invocations before comparing them when looking up the spell to cast.
[07:33:30] <SB-X> hi luteijn
[07:33:33] <SB-X> thanks for the hint
[07:33:51] <SB-X> in quas wis, wis quas
[07:34:18] <SB-X> That spell is not in thy spellbook!
[07:35:51] <SB-X> they changed wis quas to an sanct lor
[07:36:55] <SB-X> they changed in quas wis to vas wis ylem
[07:38:22] <luteijn> illusion knowledge doesn't make much sence anyway. protect light and great knowledge (of) things are a little more descriptive.. maybe 'quas' meant magic before?
[07:40:56] <Yuv422> hi luteijn
[07:41:31] * Yuv422 takes a break from nuvie to play new super mario bros
[07:43:38] <SB-X> what's that?
[07:44:24] <luteijn> mario? some kind of avatar, with a big nose and hairy face, I think
[07:44:32] <Yuv422> http://mario.nintendo.com/
[07:44:34] <Yuv422> hehe
[07:45:55] <SB-X> ah cool
[07:46:05] <SB-X> i dont have macromedia flash 8 plugin
[07:47:16] <luteijn> it plays a happy tune, and shows mario jumping runnning, eating psychopharmica and growing to a giant, destroying happy (although probably evil) creatures etc.
[07:47:42] <Yuv422> http://ds.ign.com/objects/682/682879.html
[07:49:20] <SB-X> ah k, it's for nintendo ds
[07:50:59] <luteijn> I wonder when we'll see 'ultimario' (either mario with ultima tiles, or the other way around)
[07:51:25] <SB-X> that's an odd combination
[07:51:49] <Yuv422> I have ssx with mario
[07:51:54] <Yuv422> for the gamecube
[07:52:18] <luteijn> you know the s and e look quite the same with my current font..
[07:52:44] <luteijn> so I had to read that sentence twice...
[07:53:11] <Yuv422> lol
[08:04:06] <luteijn> hmm in nuvie, shamino can first attack with his sword, and then attack with his main gauche, but there's no cursor then.
[08:06:07] <luteijn> and if you press tab twice to get the cursor, it still gives you a 'what?' when selecting target.
[08:07:00] <SB-X> also the target doesn't follow the actor
[08:07:16] <Yuv422> that's on my todo list
[08:09:42] <luteijn> I think you know this already, but the original 'peer' looks over mountains, e.g. compare alt-213 in front of tomb of kings in the original and nuvie.
[08:09:50] <SB-X> yep :\
[08:10:19] <SB-X> although I must admit the effect looks nice when going through a mountain pass in nuvie :)
[08:10:45] <Yuv422> it's only eagle eye
[08:11:21] <Yuv422> not satellite eye
[08:11:30] <SB-X> hehe
[08:11:48] <SB-X> the one in nuvie doesn't look through windows either
[08:12:55] <luteijn> actually it should show the interior mountain, pyramid etc tiles. but not the inside of houses (althoug original does that wrong too) as the eagle wouldn't be able to see through windows ;)
[08:14:18] <SB-X> it's a wis ylem casting eagle
[08:19:10] <SB-X> luteijn: what do you think of the orb not going to unfreed shrines, and not going across planes until it's been "recharged" (probably with some object available in the gargoyle realm)?
[08:21:00] <luteijn> you mean to make it less of a plot-breaker?
[08:21:27] <SB-X> yes... I think Yuv422 didn't like how easy it was to use from the beginning of the game either
[08:21:45] <Yuv422> yeah
[08:21:51] <luteijn> maybe take a page from galleon's book and make it only work for places you've already visited.
[08:21:54] <SB-X> I don't think Yuv422 liked how easy it was to use*
[08:22:10] <luteijn> I know I ruined one game when playing around with it, and finding lots of gargoyles to kill..
[08:22:15] * Yuv422 wonders how to do that
[08:22:15] <SB-X> that's not a bad idea either but I cant justify it as easily in the story
[08:22:18] <SB-X> haha
[08:22:32] <SB-X> as soon as I saw the gargoyles I got out of there :p
[08:22:54] <Yuv422> Actor::init
[08:23:06] <Yuv422> I was thinking of overloading it
[08:23:17] <luteijn> well I just found out how to use it at a bad time: high enough level to be dangerous, but not very far along in the plot..
[08:23:18] <Yuv422> and allowing a qty yo be passed through
[08:23:40] <Yuv422> yo=to
[08:23:53] <SB-X> "A magic field blocks the gate!", and "It must first be recharged, but you don't know how." makes sense and is easy to add if I can think of a way to charge it.
[08:23:53] <Yuv422> for the serpents
[08:23:56] <SB-X> hmm
[08:24:07] <luteijn> actually at first I was thinking the kind of maptile it was used on somehow influenced the destination.
[08:24:53] <Yuv422> or we could have a snake_init
[08:25:08] <SB-X> i wouldn't want to overload init() just for snakes
[08:25:19] <luteijn> just make it not work when you use it to a destination that's not unlocked. you might even add something like 'your orb of the moons rumbles lightly' whenever you get close enough to a destination to activate it..
[08:25:31] <SB-X> maybe init(obj*) which calls init_from_obj()
[08:25:52] <SB-X> luteijn: how do you unlock it?
[08:26:01] <SB-X> i guess just by going to the area
[08:26:06] <Yuv422> bbl food time
[08:26:11] <Yuv422> then dr who
[08:26:12] <SB-X> but what if you dont know where its supposed to go
[08:26:19] <SB-X> ok
[08:27:37] <SB-X> why would being in an area make that destination available? how come the avatar was able to travel to gargland without having been there before?
[08:27:38] <luteijn> SB-X: I would make it slightly more sensitive than stepping exactly on the destination. hardest part would be to check for reaching the destination(s) all the time to unlock it.
[08:28:03] <luteijn> travel to gargland the way you';re supposed to: through the dungeon..
[08:28:32] <SB-X> yeah you'd definately not want to expect the player to have to step on the exact destination square :)
[08:28:38] <SB-X> i mean how did the avatar travel there at the start of the game
[08:28:44] <SB-X> in the opening
[08:29:17] <luteijn> because that gate was opened from the other side? (although it only opens when he picks up the orb)
[08:29:22] <SB-X> it's not just on the other side of the world, it's in another dimension (or on another planet)
[08:29:30] <SB-X> i assumed he opened it somehow
[08:29:52] <luteijn> I think the gargoyles did, because they were all ready to grab him and sacrifice him, it was some kind of trap..
[08:30:19] <SB-X> That never made sense to me, although it was clear they were waiting. How did the orb get to Earth?
[08:30:28] <SB-X> i thought it came from the lightning bolt
[08:30:51] <SB-X> did they cast a spell to send it there?
[08:31:11] <luteijn> maybe the orb he finds is not theirs, just uncovered by the lightning? he picks it up, it didn't create the gate, but the gargoyles realize a shit in the force because it is moved, then open the gate with lord drax's orb
[08:31:33] <SB-X> a shit in the force?
[08:31:39] <luteijn> shift ;)
[08:32:08] <SB-X> heh, ah k
[08:32:40] <SB-X> A wizard did it. :)
[08:33:10] <luteijn> Too bad we can't ask the gargoyle priest anymore because Iolo broke him.
[08:34:13] <SB-X> yeah, he did didn't he
[08:34:25] <SB-X> unless you can find him in the tomb and cast resurrect
[08:34:35] <luteijn> or seance.
[08:35:05] <SB-X> hmm, does u6 have that spell?
[08:36:35] <luteijn> Kal Mani Corp
[08:37:03] <SB-X> cool
[08:37:21] <SB-X> does it work on the bones of zog?
[08:37:46] <luteijn> let me try.. although you'd know becuase of the conversation data being there/not there
[08:38:16] <SB-X> hehe
[08:38:38] <luteijn> good old "funny, no response" message
[08:39:05] <SB-X> damn
[08:39:12] <luteijn> resurrect say the corpse is too old.
[08:39:14] <SB-X> now I'll have to write a conversation for him ;)
[08:39:34] <SB-X> maybe we can add a new resurrect spell too, that works on ReallyOldBones
[08:44:35] <luteijn> Zog resurrected! Zog says: "What was I doing again... Ah yes, now I remember, I was going to cast this nifty spell I got from the firefly creature"
[08:45:04] <SB-X> haha... ok, bad idea :p
[08:45:59] <SB-X> Zog killed!
[08:52:04] <luteijn> I can't really think of any place I used seance and it worked... would be interesting to talk to the balloonist etc.
[08:56:14] <SB-X> So, no to resurrecting ReallyOldBones(tm), yes to new conversations for various bodies found in the game? They'd need valid qualities set first.
[08:56:59] <SB-X> That reminds me...
[08:57:03] <SB-X> Yuv422: Do we store obj quantity on the actor somewhere?
[08:58:13] <SB-X> vehicle actor needs it to get hull strength (but that could be copied somewhere else after init_from_obj)
[09:00:55] <luteijn> something that still seems to be missing is a record of each actor's maximum number of magic points. needed in the character sheet display among others.
[09:01:16] <SB-X> yes
[09:01:23] <SB-X> do you know how that is derived?
[09:04:16] <luteijn> not really, but maybe whatever is their initial value can be stored as the max value?
[09:06:56] <SB-X> i'm afraid we'd forget that it's not the correct value
[09:07:32] <SB-X> the zero is a reminder to find the real values
[09:07:36] <luteijn> it's related to intelligence though. 2 times int for avatar, 0.5 times int for iolo and shamino (rounded down) and 0 times int for dupre.
[09:08:45] <SB-X> so maybe all that's stored in objlist (or game.exe) is that factor for each actor or actortype
[09:09:39] <luteijn> I would think it's based on actor type. probably something like 2 for avatar, 1 for a mage .5 for non fighter, 0 for fighter.
[09:10:54] <luteijn> http://www.geocities.com/infinitrondragon/u6char.html has an overview of all the joinable characters and their magic points etc.
[09:11:17] <SB-X> yeah if it was based on specific actor you might as well store the max points
[09:11:53] <SB-X> nice
[09:11:57] <SB-X> that's interesting
[09:12:02] <SB-X> Julia is a Tinkerer :)
[09:12:25] <SB-X> but she'd be a woman actortype
[09:12:37] <SB-X> we don't have classes based on class
[09:13:40] <SB-X> hmm, jaana is a druid but she can't cast spells, in u7 she can heal
[09:13:45] <luteijn> u6 vastly reduced the classes anyway, didn't it.
[09:14:23] <luteijn> seems in u6 only avatar, swashbuckler, musician (and presumably mage) have magic points.
[09:14:44] <SB-X> wasn't it u5 that reduced the number or differentiation of classes?
[09:15:06] <SB-X> some women have magic points
[09:15:18] <SB-X> leodon
[09:15:58] <SB-X> at first I forgot that katrina and gwenno arent of the "woman" class, but that still leaves leodon who is
[09:17:40] <SB-X> er, nm she's a bard
[09:18:53] <luteijn> is there a (relatively easy) way to have e.g. nystul join your party ?
[09:19:03] <SB-X> in nuvie?
[09:19:34] <SB-X> I remembered having her and leonna in the party and not being able to tell between them, but that might have been leonna or leodon and someone else. (or it might have been different in the SNES version)
[09:20:07] <SB-X> in u6 you can use jp morris' party editor
[09:20:15] <SB-X> well, in dos
[09:21:07] <luteijn> might be worth it to add one of each actor-type to the party tocheck their multiplication values..
[09:21:21] <luteijn> or try to find them in the disassembly...
[09:21:58] <SB-X> yeah, I was going to ask if there was a list of NPCs like this, but for all NPCs
[09:27:27] <SB-X> if you want to do it manually, set the actor's in_party flag and add their name and number to the party roster
[09:29:03] <luteijn> too bad it can't be done with the cheat menu. (unless that was extended too)
[09:30:32] <SB-X> Write actor_num to 0xff1+member_num, actor_name to 0xf00+member_num*13, and 1<<7 to (0x800+actor_num).
[09:31:20] <SB-X> in nuvie you can add <party_all_the_time>yes</party_all_the_time> to the config file and ask anyone to join you
[09:31:57] <SB-X> you can teleport to them first with alt-414
[09:33:42] <luteijn> nuvie's saves can't be read back in by the original anymore.
[09:34:31] <SB-X> nope, nuvie has a custom format :)
[09:34:52] <SB-X> we'll add an export option later
[09:35:08] <luteijn> too bad, would be nice to set up a situation then load it up in the original to see how it reacts to it.
[09:37:08] <SB-X> we should probably read in the unknown values as UNK variables and write them unchanged, then you'd have better change of savegame compatibility between nuvie and u6
[09:48:51] <SB-X> luteijn: Ok, I've added a virtual get_maxmagic() to Actor which returns 0, and one in U6Actor can be created to check intelligence and actor type.
[09:56:06] <luteijn> there's a line in Magic.cpp that already uses it, commented out at the moment. in function_add_mp()
[09:58:05] <SB-X> does the stack value need atoi() ?
[10:00:22] <luteijn> hmm yes, like its counterpart that does hp.
[10:00:35] <SB-X> ok, the new function is committed and Magic and ActorView have been updated to use it :)
[10:00:49] <SB-X> it wont work for monsters and possibly mages
[10:05:38] <luteijn> I'll play Eric and say "ChangeLog" ;)
[10:08:21] <SB-X> *mumble*
[10:12:30] <SB-X> I'll add a new entry soon, after committing a fix to Actor movement or ActorPathfinder I'm currently working on.
[10:19:41] <luteijn> hmm can't get party all the time working. which section of the config should it be in?
[10:20:15] <SB-X> outside any section, or config
[10:20:27] <SB-X> it's supposed to be in general but I never got around to fixing that
[10:21:07] <SB-X> an in-game console would be helpful too, because my window manager covers up the xterm with the nuvie window
[10:31:14] <luteijn> sutek has 23/23 magic point so probably factor 1 is right for mages.. unless the current value for sutek was something else before?
[10:32:14] <luteijn> (but older versin of nuvie has him as 23/0 so I guess we guessed right so far
[10:32:52] <SB-X> Oh, you're looking at current magic points and comparing with max magic points. That's a good way to check. I doubt it was anything else before.
[10:33:12] <SB-X> If you load a new game you see the initial values from objlist.
[10:37:36] <SB-X> you could load an original game with monsters on screen and see their values too
[10:38:13] <SB-X> it would be +/-a few points though
[10:38:45] <SB-X> you can't talk to them but you can look at them and their information will be printed to stdout
[10:44:21] <Yuv422> back
[10:45:08] <Yuv422> do you think we should have a complete Obj in Actor?
[10:45:17] <SB-X> wb
[10:45:36] <SB-X> i think Actor should inherit Obj :)
[10:45:45] <SB-X> but I don't recommend changing it now, it's not really needed for the ship actor
[10:46:03] <Yuv422> hehe
[10:46:16] <Yuv422> I'm going to make snake length random for now
[10:46:25] <Yuv422> so I can focus on other things
[10:46:27] <SB-X> ok
[10:46:45] <Yuv422> I'll put a note in saying we should maybe change it in the future
[10:46:54] <Yuv422> if people notice and complain. ;-)
[10:47:11] <SB-X> im trying to fix a bug in actor movement or ActorPathfinder where everyone tries to avoid a ladder
[10:47:25] <Yuv422> hehe
[10:47:37] <SB-X> and when going into a dungeon dupre blocks the entrance and everyone else tries to walk around the mountain
[10:47:58] <Yuv422> sometimes I think the avatar is wasting his/her time hanging out with a party of adventurers
[10:48:31] <SB-X> with party_all_the_time set you can tell them to leave
[10:48:43] <SB-X> without it set you can just get them killed
[10:48:52] <Yuv422> I just glass sword them. ;-)
[10:49:42] <SB-X> is there any situation that cannot be solved with a glass sword?!
[10:51:22] <Yuv422> no that I know of. :)
[10:51:31] <Yuv422> no = not
[10:54:53] <SB-X> you check if obj_n == OBJ_U6_SILVER_SERPENT twice in check_move()
[10:57:16] <Yuv422> really
[10:57:24] * Yuv422 looks
[10:58:16] <Yuv422> you need the second one to allow the serpent to cross itself
[11:21:56] <SB-X> in u6 you can go through the entire character creation process but if you didn't run install.exe to create a new character, you wont get to start a new game
[11:22:19] <SB-X> i forgot that just now when starting a new game and had to start over :p
[11:38:00] <Yuv422> can you add a serpent into your party with the all in party hack?
[11:38:34] <SB-X> no, you have to be able to talk to them
[11:39:45] <SB-X> you can turn anyone into a serpent with alt-456 but they wont have any body objects
[11:46:45] <SB-X> objlist:0x1c5f is 1 when you've learned gargish
[11:47:21] <Yuv422> cool
[11:47:39] <Yuv422> can you write it up in the objlist doc
[12:01:58] <SB-X> yes np
[12:02:05] <Yuv422> thanks
[12:02:18] <Yuv422> I'm commiting my serpent changes now
[12:03:27] <SB-X> ok
[12:24:52] <SB-X> actors not going through ladders or dungeon entrances is fixed! they weren't stepping onto the square because the avatar was still there but hidden, and check_move() wasn't making sure a blocking actor is visible
[12:25:05] <Kirben> Is nuvie currently playable? can't seem to talk to anyone anymore. Just says 'Not in solo mode'
[12:26:07] <Yuv422> talking works for me
[12:26:09] <SB-X> press 0
[12:26:42] <SB-X> we should add some kind of input delay so it's not so easy to get into solo mode accidentally
[12:27:33] <SB-X> i do that sometimes when entering numbers as input or alt-codes
[12:28:09] <SB-X> you have to be in party mode to talk to people (unless you're controlling the avatar)
[12:28:23] <SB-X> unless there is a new bug involved :)
[12:28:33] <Kirben> ok, it doesn't seem to be the default though.
[12:30:06] <Kirben> Now I just get 'Funny, no response.', in first room with gargoyles.
[12:31:06] <SB-X> is it with a newly installed copy of u6?
[12:31:07] <Yuv422> maybe it has to do with objlist flags
[12:31:14] <Yuv422> and saving
[12:31:42] <SB-X> it should only say "Funny, no response." if it can't find a talk script for the actor
[12:32:15] <Kirben> In stderr.txt:
[12:32:17] <Kirben> Error loading npc 5 from converse.a:5
[12:32:26] <Kirben> Error loading npc 7 from converse.a:7
[12:32:50] <SB-X> ah, i wonder if your converse.a is corrupt or it's an endianness bug
[12:33:30] <Kirben> Running original under doxbox to compare at the moment, and it seems fine there.
[12:34:01] <Yuv422> strange
[12:34:25] <Kirben> Little endian system.
[12:34:46] <Yuv422> SB-X: you're little endian too, right?
[12:35:00] <SB-X> yeah, maybe it's just on windows
[12:35:29] <SB-X> i'll try to run it in xp later and reproduce the bug, and fix it
[12:35:53] <Yuv422> Kirben: have you got my latest changes
[12:36:03] <Yuv422> I change converse.h
[12:36:09] <SB-X> hmm
[12:36:17] * SB-X updates.
[12:36:18] <Yuv422> only to remove a type def and move it to nuvieDefs.h
[12:36:35] <Kirben> Yes, just checked, still current CVS.
[12:37:20] <Yuv422> I get lots of messages 52=0 53=0 etc
[12:37:23] <Yuv422> when I talk to LB
[12:37:35] <Kirben> ah, seems to be FM-TOWNS issue.
[12:37:47] <Yuv422> ah
[12:37:55] * Yuv422 checks his fm-towns
[12:38:26] <Kirben> Doesn't occur, when townsdir isn't set.
[12:38:26] <SB-X> i need an fm-towns
[12:38:32] <SB-X> oh i see
[12:38:41] <Yuv422> hmm
[12:38:41] <SB-X> yeah it still works for me
[12:38:47] <Yuv422> fm-towns version works for me
[12:39:06] * Yuv422 talks to Gwenno
[12:41:38] <Kirben> 94537ed942f92da501b2107deeba198e CONVERSE.A
[12:41:50] * Yuv422 checks his
[12:42:31] <SB-X> mine is not the same, compressed or uncompressed
[12:42:37] <Yuv422> MD5 (CONVERSE.A) = 94537ed942f92da501b2107deeba198e
[12:42:51] <SB-X> oh, that's the fm-towns version eh
[12:42:56] <SB-X> nm
[12:43:01] <SB-X> i don't have that one :)
[12:43:33] <Kirben> ah, minor typo in my towmdir path.
[12:43:54] <Kirben> sorry about that, but shouldn't it report if file can't be found?
[12:44:13] <Yuv422> nuvie isn't very forgiving in that regard. :-(
[12:44:16] <SB-X> yep
[12:44:23] <Yuv422> bad Nuvie
[12:46:11] <Yuv422> The hydra in Suteks castle is moving around
[12:46:28] <SB-X> that a problem?
[12:46:35] <Yuv422> it went through the secret door into his experiment room
[12:46:40] <SB-X> ...
[12:47:20] <Yuv422> It shouldn't move due to its tentacles hitting the wall
[12:48:19] <SB-X> are cyclops and gargoyles multi-obj?
[12:48:25] <Yuv422> no
[12:48:39] <Yuv422> they are big tile
[12:48:42] <Yuv422> objects
[12:48:45] <SB-X> ok, then when you change check_move() or move() to check surrounding objs you wont have to make sure not to prevent them from going through doors :)
[12:49:12] <SB-X> but actual multi-obj actors should be prevented from going through doors apparently
[12:49:38] <Yuv422> a hydra couldn't possibly fit through a secret door
[12:49:42] <SB-X> at least if they have multiple objects on the axis opposite to movement
[12:49:47] <SB-X> hehe
[12:50:04] <SB-X> they could be flexible
[12:50:18] <Yuv422> what was the alt code for the teleport menu again?
[12:50:24] <SB-X> alt-314
[12:50:28] <Yuv422> ty
[12:50:32] <SB-X> np
[12:50:42] <SB-X> alt-414 teleport to actor
[12:51:58] <Yuv422> I'll fix the large obj bug if you like
[12:52:13] <Yuv422> big gargs and cyclops are broken too
[12:52:43] <SB-X> oh, have you thought of a fix for the multitile actors?
[12:52:51] <SB-X> i can fix that if you havnt
[12:53:01] <SB-X> i'll had a new drawTile() function
[12:53:09] <Yuv422> ah k
[12:53:20] <SB-X> unless you have a better idea
[12:53:36] <Yuv422> does it change all the tiles for large objects?
[12:53:50] <Yuv422> can you have an invisible cyclops
[12:53:51] <Yuv422> ?
[12:54:03] <SB-X> not currently
[12:54:32] <SB-X> drawTile() wouldn't have the modify code because doesn't know that you're drawing an actor
[12:54:58] <Yuv422> you could pass it an effect flag
[12:55:03] <SB-X> if it did then it would need an actor pointer
[12:55:16] <Yuv422> then any object could be invisible
[12:55:18] <SB-X> i dont want to be limited to simple effects
[12:55:23] <Yuv422> right
[12:55:27] <SB-X> invisible objects aren't drawn at all
[12:55:42] <Yuv422> I think we need an interim solution though
[12:56:58] <SB-X> hmm, maybe we should just use the passed tiledata for the base tile, and only get the data for the other tiles when drawing them
[12:57:23] <Yuv422> that's what I was thinking
[12:57:30] <SB-X> then any effects will only be applied to the base tile, but atm we don't apply any effects to multitile actors anyway
[12:57:36] <Yuv422> because big actors don't go iniv
[12:57:48] <Yuv422> invisible
[12:57:59] <SB-X> this will break in the future when we want to add new effects, but will work for now
[13:00:08] <SB-X> you can go ahead and fix multiobj actors
[13:00:19] <Yuv422> righto
[13:01:03] <Yuv422> nuvie is dying with a assertion failure
[13:01:18] <Yuv422> when going down into the cellars at stone keep
[13:01:36] <Yuv422> stonegate
[13:01:52] <Yuv422> wierd
[13:01:57] <Yuv422> it didn't do it that time
[13:02:17] <SB-X> what's the assertion?
[13:02:29] <SB-X> oh i see
[13:03:12] <Yuv422> EggManager.cpp:179: failed assertion `egg->container'
[13:04:03] <SB-X> could it be an empty egg?
[13:04:36] <luteijn> I was walking there before, teleported to pushme, pullyou, then went south, and it said something like (null) is looking for..
[13:04:51] <Yuv422> hehe
[13:05:26] <SB-X> "Nothing is looking for trouble."
[13:05:41] <luteijn> so there's something going wrong there. Also I see you guys notced big actors are broken, didn't get to mention that yet.
[13:07:04] <Yuv422> I'm fixing big actors now
[13:08:20] <SB-X> fixed the assertion failure in EggManager by adding OBJTYPE_CONTAINER to egg's objtype in U6UseCode.h
[13:08:27] <SB-X> U6ObjectTypes.h*
[13:08:43] <SB-X> that makes objmanager allocation a container list for it, even though it's empty
[13:08:46] <-- luteijn has left IRC (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer))
[13:08:57] <SB-X> allocate a container list for the egg*
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[13:10:07] <SB-X> wb luteijn
[13:10:35] <Yuv422> hehe you can use switchs through walls
[13:10:44] <SB-X> cool
[13:12:10] <luteijn> related to the move paintings through walls bug.. not checking the direction flags of the wall-tile properly.
[13:12:19] <Yuv422> yes
[13:12:46] <luteijn> Didn't the original do effects like outline glow on casting gargoyles on the anchoring tile only?
[13:13:00] <Yuv422> I'm just checking that now
[13:13:23] <luteijn> I have a memory of that anyway.
[13:14:20] <SB-X> yes
[13:14:24] <SB-X> we don't do that currently
[13:14:49] <SB-X> oh sorry, you said on the anchoring tile only
[13:14:52] <SB-X> that's interesting
[13:16:49] <Yuv422> casting invis on a cyclops removes them from view completely
[13:17:17] <SB-X> try getting a gargoyle to cast a spell on you
[13:19:01] <Yuv422> the invis spell lasts for a long time
[13:19:09] <SB-X> rings do too
[13:19:22] <SB-X> there's some randomness to the spell
[13:19:35] <SB-X> if you cast mass invis on the party, people will start becoming visible at different times
[13:19:53] <Yuv422> it must only be party members that appear partially invis
[13:19:59] <SB-X> it is
[13:20:16] <SB-X> you only see them because your controlling them or know where they are :)
[13:20:18] <SB-X> you're*
[13:20:32] <luteijn> so you don't get things like 'nice shot, Iolo! Don't you agree, Dupre? Dupre?"
[13:20:38] <Yuv422> that makes sense
[13:20:41] <SB-X> hehe
[13:24:06] <luteijn> but e.g. invis daemons/ghosts etc can be nasty, because you really don't know where they are.
[13:25:12] <SB-X> it should also be noted that you can target them for attack, but not for any other actions
[13:25:45] <luteijn> probably we'll want a debugging(c.q cheating) setting where you do get outlines or something for invis non-party-members
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[13:26:43] <Yuv422> ok that temp fix is ready to comit
[13:29:14] <luteijn> Btw, how is access to the website cvs arranged? is it easy to add someone, so little misspellings like 'nuive' can be fixed?
[13:29:37] <Yuv422> the cvs access to the website is a mess at the moment
[13:29:51] <Yuv422> it isn't auto updating
[13:29:58] <Yuv422> and it is out of sync
[13:30:02] <Yuv422> I've got to fix that
[13:30:46] <SB-X> if I had access I would rewrite the downloads page
[13:31:01] <Yuv422> let me look into fixing it
[13:31:18] <SB-X> where was the mispelling again?
[13:31:24] <Yuv422> links page
[13:32:56] <Yuv422> * Added a small fix to get large actors working again. They were broken
[13:32:56] <Yuv422> when adding support for invisible party members. We will need to add
[13:32:57] <Yuv422> proper support for actor effects in the future.
[13:33:43] <SB-X> oh, you fixed it, ok :)
[13:34:01] <Yuv422> one line change to drawTile
[13:34:02] <SB-X> i was going to but was busy working on Rest
[13:34:16] <Yuv422> and changing the calls back to drawTile
[13:34:17] <SB-X> do grandfather clocks still display?
[13:34:23] <Yuv422> let me check
[13:34:38] <SB-X> also wear an invis ring and make sure that works
[13:35:21] <Yuv422> hmm
[13:35:26] <Yuv422> no clocks don't work
[13:35:33] <Yuv422> :(
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[13:35:42] <Yuv422> but invis ring does
[13:35:56] <SB-X> that's why i had changed it in the first place :)
[13:36:17] * SB-X looks.
[13:37:52] <Yuv422> all the other large tile objs seem to work fine
[13:37:56] <luteijn> hmm ctrl-s in nuvie asks a question but always seems to 'what?' whatever you answer?
[13:37:59] <Yuv422> including gillotines
[13:39:02] <SB-X> i don't know how to save over the latest save so I didnt finish that
[13:39:15] <SB-X> supposed to be like quicksave
[13:39:41] <luteijn> maybe reserve a'quicksave' slot
[13:39:51] <luteijn> so you don;t need to keep track of what the last save was?
[13:40:11] <SB-X> we already keep track for load
[13:40:30] <SB-X> but for some reason I wasnt sure how to get it for save
[13:45:24] <Yuv422> ahh
[13:45:32] <Yuv422> I know why clocks are breaking
[13:45:36] <SB-X> Yuv422: the problem is that drawTopTile() only draws the clock if passed an original tile num from tilemanager
[13:45:47] <Yuv422> yes
[13:45:52] <SB-X> i don't really :)
[13:45:59] <SB-X> i see that but i dont know why
[13:46:11] <Yuv422> because the clock tile shifts
[13:46:25] <Yuv422> so you see the pendulum move
[13:46:42] <SB-X> shouldnt it just be getting the wrong tile then?
[13:46:46] <SB-X> not an empty tile
[13:47:06] <Yuv422> the actual tile is probaby empty
[13:47:09] <luteijn> the placeholder tiles are empty yes
[13:47:15] <SB-X> haha
[13:47:15] <Yuv422> it need the tile lookup
[13:47:16] <SB-X> right
[13:47:44] <luteijn> see u6tiles.gif..
[13:48:04] <Yuv422> this shouldn't be too hard to fix
[13:48:29] <SB-X> i still need a clue
[13:48:42] <SB-X> i know why it's broken but how to fix it :)
[13:48:54] <SB-X> without breaking invis actors
[13:49:04] <SB-X> all multitile actors*
[13:49:05] <Yuv422> one moment
[13:49:11] <SB-X> aye
[13:49:15] <Yuv422> I'll see if I can fix it
[13:49:42] <luteijn> the 'person in stocks' would have the same problem?
[13:51:38] <Yuv422> hehe
[13:51:50] <Yuv422> my 'fix' reversed the problem
[13:51:58] <Yuv422> now the top is missing
[13:52:37] <Yuv422> because we are starting with the wrong tile
[13:52:42] <Yuv422> tilenum
[13:53:13] <SB-X> luteijn: sinjen is only one tile
[13:57:10] <luteijn> no, look at http://luteijn.xs4all.nl/html/u6o/downloads/devel/sdl/u6/u6tiles.gif he has a litle extra bit.
[13:57:41] <luteijn> also if you hack-join sinjin to the party he becomes graphically challenged
[13:58:43] <luteijn> sinjen's graphic is on the same line as the clock, fountain, bellows etc.
[13:59:07] <SB-X> that was my next question
[13:59:47] <luteijn> the first block of tiles is the map/base tiles, then there's a lot of those animations, then some gui tiles and finally the obj tiles and actors.
[14:00:21] <Yuv422> I've got a fix for the clock issue
[14:00:26] <Yuv422> but it's a bit of a hack
[14:01:24] <SB-X> luteijn: nuvie doesn't even draw the left part of the stocks with him in them
[14:01:26] <luteijn> the version of nuvie I have at the moment has broken gargoyle and working clock, so can't check, but is sinjen affected by the clock-issue?
[14:01:33] <SB-X> nope
[14:01:49] <SB-X> actually, my copy has the reversed problem so I cant check :)
[14:01:57] <SB-X> either
[14:02:22] <Yuv422> I'm assuming nothing has a tile_num of 0
[14:02:40] <SB-X> :S
[14:02:54] <Yuv422> so if you pass a tile with a tile_num of 0 to drawTile it doesn't call tile_manager->get_tile(tile_num)
[14:03:12] <Yuv422> because the tile isn't in the tile lookup table
[14:03:17] <Yuv422> what do you think?
[14:03:22] <Yuv422> is it too much of a hack?
[14:03:41] <Yuv422> I set rtile->tile_num = 0
[14:03:47] <Yuv422> before calling drawTile
[14:04:47] <luteijn> shouldn't tile_manager->get_tile() be returning the proper animation frame? What's the impossibility there?
[14:05:07] <Yuv422> it does
[14:05:09] <SB-X> it's that for the base tile you dont want to call that
[14:05:13] <SB-X> you want to use the original data
[14:05:14] <Yuv422> but I need to pass in a tile
[14:05:25] <Yuv422> yes
[14:05:34] <SB-X> you can't modify the original tiles for effects because then you'd modify everything using that tile on screen :)
[14:05:42] <luteijn> SB-X: my current nuvie does put the little bit of extra sinjen there.
[14:05:56] <SB-X> he's on top of another stocks
[14:06:10] <luteijn> SB-X: Ah.
[14:06:43] <Yuv422> invis sherry looks funny
[14:07:00] <SB-X> heh
[14:07:31] <SB-X> what will you draw for blackness?
[14:08:02] <Yuv422> hmm
[14:08:10] <SB-X> oh, looks like you check the tile pointer
[14:08:10] <Yuv422> blackness still seems to work
[14:08:21] <SB-X> inline bool MapWindow::tmpBufTileIsBlack(uint16 x, uint16 y)
[14:08:27] <SB-X> {
[14:08:27] <SB-X> if(tmp_map_buf[y*tmp_map_width + x] == 0)
[14:08:32] <SB-X> return true;
[14:08:32] <SB-X> return false;
[14:08:32] <SB-X> }
[14:09:25] <SB-X> no, its a pointer to a tile num!
[14:09:39] <luteijn> the very first graphic in u6 is the good old fireplace.
[14:09:39] <SB-X> see if you can look at an invis actor
[14:10:03] <SB-X> i think that's because of the tile lookup table
[14:10:59] <SB-X> i dont know why but u6tiles.gif shows an egg on dirt
[14:11:33] <luteijn> _my_ u6 tiles.gif doesn't but I'm not sure how I generated it anymore.
[14:11:55] <SB-X> well it should be Nothing
[14:12:32] <luteijn> but I had to make a new one, becuase the one floating around on the web has wrong graphics for e.g. the light that goes through the lenses, and the dungeon 'sun-strip'
[14:13:49] <luteijn> whomever made u6tiles.GIF must have gotten the empty-line compression wrong when decoding the graphics.
[14:15:08] <SB-X> Yuv422: how do you call tile_manager->get_tile() in drawTile() if tilenum is 0?
[14:15:28] <SB-X> yeah we discussed that before :)
[14:15:42] <SB-X> when talking about the linux u6o client
[14:15:44] <Yuv422> I just draw the tile
[14:15:59] <Yuv422> I don't call get_tile
[14:16:07] <SB-X> but how can that work? why don't we just not call get_tile then?
[14:16:21] <SB-X> you need the original tile for clocks
[14:16:22] <Yuv422> then we get the wrong tile
[14:17:02] <SB-X> has the original tile already been retrieved somewhere before the call to drawTile() then?
[14:17:17] <SB-X> if so then it was redundant to have to retrieve it again anyway
[14:17:30] <Yuv422> no because it needs the tile sizes
[14:17:42] <Yuv422> from the pointer tile
[14:17:46] <Yuv422> not the actual tile data
[14:17:50] <Yuv422> if that makes sense
[14:17:59] <Yuv422> the clock pointer tile
[14:18:03] <Yuv422> is double hight
[14:18:05] <Yuv422> height
[14:18:08] <SB-X> yeah, but im not sure how its working now
[14:18:23] <Yuv422> but the actual clock tiles don't have that tile info
[14:18:27] <Yuv422> so we can't pass them
[14:18:38] <Yuv422> or we lose the other bits of the clock
[14:18:52] <Yuv422> because we nolonger think the tile is double height
[14:19:07] <SB-X> isn't the tile_num the important bit for lookup?
[14:19:21] <Yuv422> yes
[14:19:26] <SB-X> and you've set it to 0
[14:20:09] <Yuv422> we don't lookup for single tiles
[14:20:14] <Yuv422> like party actors
[14:20:25] <Yuv422> I'm assuming all party members are sinle tile
[14:20:30] <Yuv422> single
[14:20:47] <SB-X> what about effects applied to other actors? will it still draw their other tiles?
[14:20:58] <Yuv422> nope
[14:21:04] <Yuv422> it will segfault and crash
[14:21:07] <SB-X> theres nothing about party members in drawing tiles
[14:21:08] <SB-X> :(
[14:21:34] <SB-X> maybe we need some other fix
[14:21:53] <SB-X> is tiledata constant? you could swap it just for one blit
[14:21:57] <Yuv422> yeah it's not the best
[14:22:13] <SB-X> using a setting on the tile pointer
[14:22:25] <Yuv422> then all actors of the same type would be invis
[14:22:41] <SB-X> not if you set it back right after drawing
[14:22:50] <Yuv422> true
[14:22:54] <Yuv422> that's hacky too though
[14:22:56] <Yuv422> :(
[14:23:02] <SB-X> how did the original do it?
[14:23:10] <Yuv422> not too sure
[14:23:19] <Yuv422> maybe like I'm doing it now
[14:23:30] <Yuv422> assuming only single tile actors get effects
[14:23:39] <SB-X> winged gargoyles get effects
[14:23:42] <SB-X> only the base tile is affected
[14:23:56] <Yuv422> they might have a different rendering routine
[14:24:16] <SB-X> maybe we need a drawActorTile and drawObjTile
[14:24:37] <SB-X> i dont really like that though and not sure it would fix anything
[14:24:51] <Yuv422> drawActor with effects?
[14:25:18] <SB-X> no just a different method that uses the tile data
[14:25:27] <SB-X> the effects would still be done in drawActor on the tile
[14:25:53] <SB-X> or drawModifiedTile()
[14:26:15] <Yuv422> but we still need to mod the other tiles
[14:26:23] <SB-X> we do?
[14:26:42] <Yuv422> for large objects like big gargs
[14:26:43] <SB-X> origin didnt
[14:27:31] <Yuv422> maybe the new actor drawin routine can prefetch all the tiles
[14:27:42] <Yuv422> and render the effect on them first
[14:28:00] <Yuv422> the other problem is that the drawing is a two step process for objects
[14:28:05] <SB-X> Yeah it would probably have to. I also want the ability to apply an animation on top of a tile.
[14:28:28] <SB-X> if you add a new drawModifiedTile() routine then you dont really need to worry about objects
[14:28:36] <SB-X> what about rtile->modified which would be like your current fix?
[14:28:48] <SB-X> then you'd account for that in tilemanager
[14:28:48] <Yuv422> I was thinking of that
[14:29:06] <Yuv422> but we still need to handle the other tiles in a big object
[14:29:23] <SB-X> sort of just tells it not to look up the real tile
[14:29:25] <SB-X> later :)
[14:29:58] <Yuv422> how about we write down what we want from the drawing system in the future
[14:30:01] <SB-X> since we only apply affects to the base tile, you could deactivate the modified flag after drawing that tile
[14:30:06] <Yuv422> so we can rework it now.
[14:30:29] <SB-X> i dont have time for that now
[14:30:34] <Yuv422> righto
[14:30:40] <SB-X> i have other systems to write ideas for :)
[14:31:24] <SB-X> Fixing this draw issue took too long. Sorry for breaking it in the first place. :p
[14:31:33] <SB-X> will you have time to fix multi-obj actors?
[14:31:51] <Yuv422> attacking multitile actors?
[14:32:03] <SB-X> no, hydras going through doors
[14:32:09] <Yuv422> ah k
[14:32:21] <Yuv422> I've got so many little things to do
[14:32:30] <Yuv422> I don't know which one to do next. ;-)
[14:32:41] <SB-X> you were about to do that before starting to fix the tile draw problem
[14:33:04] <Yuv422> I'd like to fix the tile draw problem first
[14:33:21] <Yuv422> as it's quite noticeable
[14:34:16] <SB-X> wouldn't my recommendation based on your recommendation work?
[14:34:32] <Yuv422> the new routine?
[14:34:40] <Yuv422> and the mod flag?
[14:34:44] <SB-X> no just adding a modified bit to flags
[14:34:49] <SB-X> you dont need a whole new routine
[14:34:55] <SB-X> modified flag to tiles*
[14:35:15] <SB-X> after you draw the base tile, set it false
[14:35:32] <SB-X> account for the flag in get_tile()
[14:36:07] <SB-X> this way you get the same effect of setting tile_num to 0, without losing the important tile_num
[14:36:22] <Yuv422> I like that idea
[14:36:34] <luteijn> another TODO is to keep the TODO file up to date, and maybe add some priorities ;)
[14:36:43] <SB-X> haha
[14:36:57] <SB-X> i'll put it on my TODO list
[14:37:01] <Yuv422> the only issue I had was the extra data required store all the mod flags
[14:37:14] <Yuv422> more memory
[14:37:25] <SB-X> are there any unused tileflags?
[14:37:50] <Yuv422> lots at the back I'd imagine
[14:38:05] <SB-X> what?
[14:38:08] <Yuv422> luteijn: I was thinking of having a progress page on the website
[14:38:13] <Yuv422> for each game
[14:38:22] <Yuv422> with percentage complete
[14:38:32] <Yuv422> but then we'd have to maintain it. ;-)
[14:38:36] <SB-X> I like that idea too, although percentage is rather arbitrary.
[14:38:47] <Yuv422> it would be good to tick things off as they are done
[14:38:51] <SB-X> i'd prefer some notes on each major feature
[14:38:56] <Yuv422> SB-X: true
[14:39:23] <Yuv422> we could have them in another box down the lefthand side
[14:39:30] <Yuv422> progress
[14:39:38] <Yuv422> then links for the three games
[14:40:21] <SB-X> we need the links anyway
[14:40:33] <Yuv422> ?
[14:40:45] <luteijn> if you fix the web access issues, then you could just keep the 'todo/changelog' on the webpage, so it is clear what's being done.
[14:40:54] <SB-X> Yuv422: nm i thought you meant links to buy them
[14:41:20] <Yuv422> luteijn: I'll have a look at the website cvs tomorrow
[14:41:21] <SB-X> you can access the ChangeLog already
[14:41:41] <SB-X> er, you used to be able to access the ChangeLog
[14:41:57] <Yuv422> luteijn: I've been putting it off for awhile
[14:42:14] <Yuv422> you've inspired me to fix it. :-)
[14:42:22] <Yuv422> SB-X: that's right
[14:42:52] <SB-X> http://nuvie.cvs.sourceforge.net/*checkout*/nuvie/nuvie/ChangeLog
[14:43:00] <SB-X> http://nuvie.cvs.sourceforge.net/*checkout*/nuvie/nuvie/TODO
[14:43:07] <luteijn> I have that in my buffer ready to paste in here ;)
[14:43:35] <SB-X> i beat you to it
[14:43:40] <luteijn> but it's quite a few clicks from the main page.
[14:43:47] <Yuv422> we could have a script on the site
[14:43:51] <SB-X> to pasting it anyway ;)
[14:43:53] <SB-X> i see TODO is definately out of date
[14:43:56] <SB-X> i'll fix that later
[14:44:14] <Yuv422> that fetched the ChangeLog from the cvs and put it into the website
[14:44:25] <Yuv422> then we could template around it
[14:44:31] <Yuv422> with our theme etc
[14:44:39] <luteijn> also interesting to see lot s of the things being worked on according to changelog are not on the todo-list (probably the things on the todo list are 'hard' for some reason, so pushed back)
[14:45:51] <luteijn> you probably want something that combines todo and changelog in a way so it shows categories and work done on them (using strike out/checkboxes/progress bars to show how much has been doen)
[14:47:06] <luteijn> problem is that it would be one more thing to maintain...
[14:47:55] <luteijn> but the spot taken by the 'news' (or in our case 'olds') could be the changelog.
[14:49:03] <Yuv422> or a link to the changelog with a date last updated
[14:49:41] <Yuv422> the whole changelog is a little large for the front page I think
[14:50:02] <Yuv422> 2200+ lines
[14:50:52] <luteijn> yeah, maybe just the newest bits and a link to 'full changelog'
[14:51:13] <Yuv422> top 50 lines
[14:51:23] <Yuv422> or something like that
[14:58:55] <SB-X> luteijn should be added to AUTHORS
[14:59:05] <Yuv422> :)
[14:59:10] <Yuv422> true
[14:59:56] * Yuv422 changes AUTHORS
[15:00:34] <luteijn> looking at those mock ups sbx made. reminds me of u6o, with the big map.
[15:01:39] <SB-X> me too, although the map is smaller than u6o's
[15:04:10] <SB-X> Yuv422: what about an array of 128 bytes containing the modified flag for 1024 tiles?
[15:04:36] <Yuv422> that sounds like a good tradeoff. :)
[15:08:02] <SB-X> but please add a function to change it because I cant remember the bit shifting needed there (except that it would use tile_num%8)
[15:08:33] <Yuv422> righto
[15:08:38] <SB-X> tile_modified = modified_tiles[tile_num/8] something;
[15:09:00] <SB-X> something tile_num%8;*
[15:09:41] <Yuv422> I'll add some convenience routines for manipulation
[15:17:44] <Yuv422> I've just added Pieter to the AUTHORS file
[15:18:08] <Yuv422> time for bed
[15:21:35] <SB-X> oh already?
[15:21:36] <SB-X> ok cya
[15:22:33] <Yuv422> It's pretty late by my standards
[15:22:39] <Yuv422> 1:22am
[15:23:13] <Yuv422> brb just need to hang up some washing
[15:23:15] <Yuv422> then bed
[15:24:06] <SB-X> are you going to add the draw fix later or do you want me to?
[15:32:08] <-- Yuv422 has left IRC ()
[15:33:02] <SB-X> ok I will
[15:33:07] <SB-X> cya :)
[16:56:22] <SB-X> cannons damage ships now, and you can repair the ship by resting
[16:57:50] <SB-X> s/now/since a half hour ago when I mistyped that to #pentagram :P/
[17:02:21] <wjp> quite a few nuvie commits this last week I see; nice
[17:04:08] <SB-X> yeah
[18:59:38] <luteijn> looks like I fixed the Nuive typo in the template.links file..
[19:04:49] <wjp> you sound surprised at having fixed it? :-)
[19:05:51] <luteijn> well, a little, probably didn't do it the way it was supposed to..
[19:05:53] <luteijn> ls
[19:17:17] <SB-X> hehe
[19:27:06] <luteijn> (i just changed it in the cvs stored version of the file, then overwrote the file owned by efry (that didn't have group write permission) with the same change in the project directory..
[19:28:02] <luteijn> probably the right way to do it is to checkout the cvs into the htdocs directory, but as Yuv just commented it was not in sync, that didn't seem like a safe action to do..
[19:41:48] --- SB-X is now known as sbx|afk
[20:06:32] <luteijn> made iolo hold a torch (in his left hand, right hand is holding the crossbow (should be blocking left hand)) saved game, restarted nuvie, torch and crossbow had switched hands. also actor->light seemed to not be set anymore.
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