#nuvie@irc.freenode.net logs for 29 Jun 2003 (GMT)

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[10:51:32] <Yuv422> hi
[10:53:27] --> wjp has joined #nuvie
[10:53:36] <Yuv422> hi wjp
[10:53:45] <wjp> hi
[10:54:38] --> maku has joined #nuvie
[10:54:48] <Yuv422> I see you've got nuvie cvs snapshots on your webpage. :)
[10:55:00] <Yuv422> are they auto-generated?
[10:55:06] <Yuv422> hi maku
[10:55:11] <maku> hi
[10:55:13] <Yuv422> long time so see. ;)
[10:55:19] <Yuv422> so/no ;)
[10:55:35] <maku> yep. I visited my girlfriend for a week
[10:56:10] <Yuv422> have you looked at the new MD support?
[10:56:15] <wjp> no, only semi-automatic
[10:56:32] <maku> yes, I have. cool!
[10:56:35] <wjp> (they're script-generated, but I need to run the script manually)
[10:56:57] <Yuv422> wjp: the SF cvs server has been a bit unstable lately
[10:57:17] <wjp> which is why I am doing the snapshots :-)
[10:57:22] <maku> is anyone working to get MD conversations working
[10:57:27] <Yuv422> ;)
[10:57:42] <Yuv422> maku: not really
[10:57:55] <Yuv422> maku: that's SB-X's department really.
[10:57:55] <maku> I could have a look
[10:58:04] <Yuv422> if you like
[10:58:14] <Yuv422> I'd check in with SB-X firsy
[10:58:16] <Yuv422> first
[10:58:23] <maku> sure
[10:58:35] <maku> sbx, do you have MD?
[10:58:59] <Yuv422> I think sbx might be afk atm. ;)
[10:59:05] <SB-X> hi
[10:59:05] <SB-X> no
[10:59:05] <SB-X> im going to get it here soon
[10:59:13] <Yuv422> :)
[10:59:28] <maku> ok
[11:00:00] <Yuv422> wjp: I was looking at the small nuvie changelog alnog side pentagram/exult and uwadv changelogs. ;)
[11:00:06] <SB-X> i heard my name
[11:00:11] <Yuv422> alnog/along
[11:00:19] <SB-X> maku: yuv looked at the talk files thats about it
[11:00:41] <maku> Yuv422: what did you find out?
[11:00:48] <SB-X> and decoded the lib format
[11:01:21] <Yuv422> well it looks similar to U6 but I'm sure the op codes would be different
[11:01:42] <maku> ouch
[11:01:45] <wjp> Yuv422: yes, you need to work on your changelog ;-)
[11:01:53] <wjp> Yuv422: forget code, changelog is more important ;-)
[11:02:07] <maku> yuv, what are you currently working on?
[11:02:29] <Yuv422> I'm just about to pull the guts out of the file system
[11:02:37] <Yuv422> so we can support writing.
[11:02:41] <Yuv422> and hence saves
[11:02:43] <Yuv422> :)
[11:02:46] <maku> ok
[11:02:50] <maku> sbx?
[11:03:13] * SB-X looks around.
[11:03:23] <maku> what are you working on?
[11:03:24] <maku> :)
[11:03:24] <SB-X> nothing yet
[11:03:24] <SB-X> im burning some cds
[11:03:27] <Yuv422> maku: are you looking for somthing to do?
[11:03:34] <maku> kind of ;)
[11:03:37] <Yuv422> you could fix up fonts in MD and SE
[11:03:53] <Yuv422> I'm having trouble finding some fonts for MD
[11:04:07] <SB-X> drop support?
[11:04:07] <Yuv422> I've got most of the font format figured out
[11:04:25] <Yuv422> would MD work in a textless environment. ;)
[11:05:01] <maku> are fonts in fonts.lzc?
[11:05:13] <Yuv422> wjp: I've been looking at the nice pentagram sources. :)
[11:05:16] <Yuv422> yes
[11:05:38] <Yuv422> well the big fonts appear to be there
[11:05:51] <Yuv422> I can't find the smaller general use fonts though
[11:06:01] <Yuv422> or the spinning planet fonts
[11:06:16] <Yuv422> I can explain the font format to you if you like
[11:06:24] <Yuv422> well what I know so far.
[11:06:33] <maku> please do that
[11:06:47] * Yuv422 thinks that nuvie should have a gump system!
[11:07:05] <Yuv422> have you got an uncompressed version maku?
[11:07:18] * Yuv422 fires up his hexeditor
[11:07:27] <wjp> a gump system? :-)
[11:07:57] <maku> I think I have. how can I ensure it?
[11:08:01] <Yuv422> wjp: gotta keep up with the Jones's
[11:08:09] <wjp> :-)
[11:08:28] <Yuv422> maku: actually it is compressed in both.
[11:08:48] <maku> ok. so I'll uncompress it
[11:11:13] <Yuv422> basically there is 0x200 bytes of data that I can't account for
[11:11:51] <Yuv422> have a look at the data starting at 0x100
[11:12:06] <Yuv422> sorry make that 0x104
[11:12:21] <Yuv422> from 0x104 to 0x304
[11:12:51] <Yuv422> I'll tell you what I know so far
[11:13:02] <maku> ok. I see the data. go ahead
[11:13:18] <Yuv422> ok that data is unknown
[11:13:31] <Yuv422> the data at the start of the file is known
[11:13:33] <Yuv422> byte 0
[11:13:41] <Yuv422> is the height of the fonts
[11:13:50] <Yuv422> in this case 11
[11:13:55] <Yuv422> byte 2
[11:14:07] <Yuv422> is the font color
[11:14:17] <Yuv422> byte 3 is the background color
[11:14:31] <Yuv422> the next 0x100 bytes
[11:14:47] <Yuv422> are the width's of each of the 0x100 font chars
[11:15:07] <Yuv422> you then just get the data from 0x304
[11:15:19] <Yuv422> which is the actuall font data
[11:15:24] <maku> thats it? one byte for a pixel?
[11:15:30] <Yuv422> yes
[11:15:38] <Yuv422> so the first char has no bytes
[11:15:45] <Yuv422> because it has a width of 0
[11:15:57] <Yuv422> the next char as 11 bytes
[11:16:11] <Yuv422> because it has a width of 1
[11:16:19] <Yuv422> does that make sence?
[11:16:35] <maku> it's height is 11?
[11:16:40] <Yuv422> yes
[11:16:48] <maku> then I understand the system
[11:16:49] <Yuv422> all chars have a height of 11 pixels
[11:16:54] <Yuv422> in SE
[11:16:56] <Yuv422> it is 8
[11:17:19] <Yuv422> but the standard in-game font in MD has chars which are 8x8
[11:17:28] <Yuv422> so where are these chars stored?
[11:17:49] <Yuv422> and what does the 512 bytes starting at 0x104 do?
[11:18:10] <maku> some two byte flags for each character?
[11:19:29] <maku> in-game font may be hardcoded
[11:19:52] <Yuv422> I don't think it would be
[11:19:57] <Yuv422> it wasn't in U6
[11:20:03] <maku> what about mdtext.lzc?
[11:20:10] <Yuv422> hmm
[11:20:12] <Yuv422> could be
[11:20:20] <Yuv422> let me have a look at that file
[11:20:49] <maku> no it isn't
[11:21:03] <Yuv422> hehe yeah
[11:21:06] <Yuv422> that's book data
[11:22:13] <maku> are there many fonts in fonts.lzc?
[11:22:28] <maku> next one begins where previous ends?
[11:23:23] <Yuv422> yes
[11:23:41] <Yuv422> want my little font extraction tool?
[11:23:50] <maku> that would be cool
[11:27:48] <Yuv422> that little program just prints the font out as a text file
[11:40:14] <Yuv422> all the fonts in the SE file are 8x8
[11:40:27] <Yuv422> wait 8 high
[11:41:15] <Yuv422> the widest char in SE is 9 pixels
[11:41:47] <Yuv422> that data at 0x104 seems to be divided into two sections
[11:41:56] <Yuv422> of 256 bytes each
[11:42:07] <maku> two entries for each character
[11:42:31] <Yuv422> the second set of 256 bytes is sorted in asending order
[11:43:04] <Yuv422> and in the SE font there are runs of similar data.
[11:43:10] <maku> yes, I so it seems
[11:44:28] <Yuv422> maybe scenetxt.lzc
[11:44:36] <Yuv422> I'll have a look at that one
[11:44:40] <maku> ok
[11:48:30] <Yuv422> no it's the text for the intro scene
[11:48:35] <Yuv422> :)
[11:52:15] <maku> I go out now. I'll continue trying to figure things out. if you find anything, please email me.
[11:52:24] <Yuv422> righto
[11:52:28] <maku> bye
[11:52:32] <Yuv422> cya
[11:52:35] <-- maku has left IRC ("Jo riittää.. Vain järjestys takaa tulevaisuuden!")
[11:54:33] <SB-X> i started to put in Drop support but decided not to because the event handling has to have a standard way of sending messages to the interface (viewmgr) before it can be done correctly (access the inventory, select item, select place to drop)
[11:54:48] <Yuv422> :)
[11:55:01] <Yuv422> that's why I stayed away from it too.
[11:55:52] <Yuv422> do you think we should drop the original interface and add a mouse based drag and drop interface?
[11:56:22] <SB-X> i was going to put a focus flag that determined if input was handled in event or went to a view but the way i thought of required too many hacks
[11:56:33] <SB-X> i dont see a need to drop the original
[11:56:59] <SB-X> our new interface can have embedded or locked-position elements that emulates the original
[11:57:14] <wjp> an optional mouse-based drag-n-drop interface would be nice :-)
[11:57:14] <SB-X> but if its too difficult for both i'd rather have a new one
[11:57:53] <Yuv422> I just thinking about how we could handle the item selection.
[11:57:56] <Yuv422> any ideas?
[11:58:19] <SB-X> i would like drag-n-drop too, much better than tab-arrow-enter-enter
[11:59:30] <Yuv422> I think a drag and drop interface would be easier to implement
[11:59:49] <Yuv422> we could still lock the views
[11:59:59] <Yuv422> or have a floating view option
[12:00:14] <Yuv422> so you could have multiple inventorys open.
[12:00:41] <Yuv422> do you think people would complain if we dropped the original interface?
[12:01:02] <wjp> yes :-)
[12:01:37] <wjp> (not all people, of course, and probably not even most people, but some people will complain)
[12:01:38] <SB-X> probably
[12:02:01] <Yuv422> maybe we could say we were going to add the original interface at a later date, and just never get around to doing it.
[12:02:08] <wjp> heh :-)
[12:02:50] <Yuv422> in pentagram is the mapwindow considers a gump?
[12:03:06] <Yuv422> considered
[12:03:08] <wjp> yes
[12:04:03] <wjp> we have a DesktopGump (just a big black rectangle) which is the (ultimate) parent of all our gumps
[12:04:11] <wjp> there's a GameMapGump which displays the map
[12:04:24] <wjp> ContainerGumps for container contents
[12:05:02] <Yuv422> so are the individual elements that make up a dialo gumps too?
[12:05:07] <Yuv422> dialog
[12:05:15] <wjp> buttons, etc? yes
[12:05:22] <Yuv422> ah k
[12:05:36] <wjp> (not that we have any dialogs yet...)
[12:06:00] <Yuv422> do you gumps support partial redraws?
[12:06:03] <Yuv422> your
[12:06:17] <wjp> no, we don't support partial redraws at all, in fact
[12:07:09] <Yuv422> so any overlaping gumps are redrawn in full for each cycle while a gump is moved.
[12:07:32] <wjp> yes
[12:07:39] <wjp> probably not the most efficient way :-)
[12:07:55] <Yuv422> easiest to implement
[12:08:00] <wjp> indeed :-)
[12:08:26] <Yuv422> events are handled by your gump manager?
[12:08:52] <Yuv422> do they flow down the gump tree. from dialog to subdialog to button etc?
[12:09:04] <wjp> don't have a gump manager (yet?)
[12:09:23] <wjp> yes, they go from the desktopgump down to the gump which handles it
[12:09:47] <Yuv422> are coords gump relative?
[12:09:57] <wjp> yes
[12:10:03] <Yuv422> cool
[12:10:22] <wjp> (or parent relative, depending on which coordinates you mean :-) )
[12:10:36] <Yuv422> hehe yeah that's what I ment
[12:11:42] <Yuv422> does exult use a similar system?
[12:11:51] <wjp> yeah
[12:20:21] <Yuv422> hmm maybe fonts are in system.lzc
[12:31:33] <SB-X> then what is the unk. data?
[12:31:47] <Yuv422> huh?
[12:37:25] <SB-X> i just assumed what was unknown in fonts.lzc was what you needed
[12:37:35] <Yuv422> nope :(
[12:37:37] <SB-X> unless you already got that figured out
[12:37:51] <Yuv422> it seems to be only the intro fonts
[12:38:02] <Yuv422> I'm missing the ingame fonts
[12:38:04] <Yuv422> for MD
[12:38:12] <Yuv422> SE seems to contain the game fonts.
[12:38:30] <Yuv422> the font structure is different from U6
[12:38:40] <Yuv422> MD & SE have the same structure
[13:10:31] <Yuv422> Argh! Project Builder just crashed. :(
[13:10:59] * Yuv422 looks forward to Apples new Xcode system.
[13:11:44] <wjp> specs on that look really impressive
[13:12:12] <Yuv422> yeah, on the fly code changes sounds great.
[13:16:06] <Yuv422> I think I'll take an MD shot and add it to the website
[13:33:52] <SB-X> oh take a look at this screen :)
[13:33:58] <SB-X> Yuv422
[13:35:35] <Yuv422> hehe
[13:36:54] <Yuv422> I guess we shouldn't do weight display on Actors
[13:37:12] <SB-X> i think its the chair
[13:37:27] <Yuv422> ah yes
[13:37:41] <SB-X> should there be a single way to find any "thing" on the map, instead of having to check for object and actor seperately?
[13:37:50] <Yuv422> yes
[13:37:57] <SB-X> on the map at a certain coordinate*
[13:38:03] <Yuv422> we should have map do the check
[13:38:45] <Yuv422> as Map knows about Actors and Objects. ;)
[13:39:38] <SB-X> ah good
[13:39:42] <SB-X> yeah
[13:39:47] <Yuv422> http://nuvie.sourceforge.net/images/shots/nuvie_10.png
[13:39:55] <SB-X> what would you call it?
[13:40:11] <Yuv422> hmm
[13:40:20] <Yuv422> what is it returning?
[13:40:21] <Yuv422> weight
[13:40:26] <Yuv422> or is it looking?
[13:41:06] <SB-X> weigh_objs_at_tile?
[13:42:23] <Yuv422> hmm
[13:42:28] <SB-X> oh that wouldnt work
[13:43:26] <SB-X> that pictures really good
[13:43:31] <SB-X> except the neon text
[13:43:36] <Yuv422> hehe
[13:43:50] <Yuv422> yeah I thought about hacking the text color
[13:44:03] <SB-X> for the screen
[13:44:09] <Yuv422> yeah
[13:44:16] <SB-X> but probably not such a good idea
[13:44:21] <SB-X> why are the first letters with a white bg?
[13:44:25] <Yuv422> I'll wait till I reimplement the Text class
[13:44:58] <Yuv422> it anoys me that I can't find those fonts. ;)
[13:45:12] <Yuv422> hopefully maku will have some luck.
[13:46:18] <Yuv422> SB-X: You'll need to get MD so you can experience the neon-green text in all its glory! ;)
[13:46:45] <SB-X> its the main reason that im getting it
[13:46:59] <Yuv422> hehe I know. ;)
[13:47:03] <SB-X> whats is the stippled triangle on the bottom right
[13:47:07] <SB-X> is that part of the game?
[13:47:11] <Yuv422> nope
[13:47:14] <Yuv422> part of OS X
[13:47:22] <Yuv422> it's the resize control
[13:47:31] <SB-X> oh thought that might be it
[13:47:34] <Yuv422> if I hit that the whole game locks up.
[13:47:36] <Yuv422> ;)
[13:47:56] <Yuv422> I should disable resizing in SDL
[13:48:30] <SB-X> in blackbox i can resize and it doesnt affect anything
[13:48:50] <Yuv422> does it just blackout the window?
[13:49:00] <SB-X> resizing greater than the original size leaves a black area around it
[13:49:34] <SB-X> blackout the bottom and right, the screen is still aligned to the top left
[13:53:50] <Yuv422> nice.
[13:54:05] <SB-X> that one is Nuvie compact mode
[13:54:12] <Yuv422> I wonder what SDL is doing with the rest of the window.
[13:56:00] <Yuv422> when I resize the game screen disappears
[13:56:08] <Yuv422> then a second or so later it crashes
[13:58:14] <Yuv422> hmm it crashes in Screen::blit32
[14:00:11] <Yuv422> the sun display should be easier to implement in MD
[14:00:20] <Yuv422> when I find the shape data that is ;)
[14:04:06] <SB-X> why is it easier?
[14:04:06] <SB-X> there are no undergrounds?
[14:04:42] <Yuv422> because it is a single image that is scrolled
[14:04:53] <Yuv422> in U6 it is made up of individual tiles
[14:05:02] <Yuv422> for the sun and moons
[14:05:42] <SB-X> ooh right you have to do moon phases i forgot :)
[14:06:05] <SB-X> felucia & trammel
[14:07:14] <SB-X> does md have phobos & deimos? :) (he said with complete ignorance of the game)
[14:07:32] <Yuv422> hehe not sure
[14:07:41] <Yuv422> I'd have to look at the sun graphics
[14:08:17] <Yuv422> the other issue with MD is world wrapping
[14:08:27] <Yuv422> :( that's going to be a bit tricky
[14:08:39] <Yuv422> with my current blacking algorithm
[14:49:25] <SB-X> gonna go now
[14:49:26] <SB-X> later
[14:49:31] <Yuv422> righto
[14:49:32] <Yuv422> me too
[14:49:34] <-- SB-X has left IRC ("X-Chat")
[14:54:44] <Yuv422> time for bed
[14:54:47] <Yuv422> cya
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