#nuvie@irc.freenode.net logs for 2 Jan 2005 (GMT)

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[00:06:57] --> Kirben has joined #nuvie
[01:28:02] --> Yuv422 has joined #nuvie
[01:43:18] <sbx> hi eric
[01:44:14] <sbx> happy new year
[01:44:57] <sbx> but that's now old for you guys in Australia :P
[01:51:51] <-- Yuv422 has left IRC (Read error: 60 (Operation timed out))
[01:53:56] <sbx> hehe
[01:54:08] * sbx is AFK anyway.
[03:26:30] <-- sbx has left IRC ("clicks the exit button")
[03:51:33] --> sbx has joined #nuvie
[04:04:59] --> Yuv422 has joined #nuvie
[04:05:18] <sbx> wb
[06:06:30] <Yuv422> hi sbx
[06:06:47] * Yuv422 wonders if his connection has dropped again?
[06:07:04] <sbx> I hear you.
[06:07:08] <sbx> Or... see you.
[06:07:17] <sbx> see your text :P
[06:07:17] <-- Yuv422 has left IRC ("Yuv422 has no reason")
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[06:07:50] <sbx> hello
[06:07:51] <Yuv422> hi sbx
[06:08:07] <sbx> I'm trying to configure Samba still. It wont let me access my home directory.
[06:08:32] <Yuv422> yeah samba can be a bit fiddly to setup
[06:08:52] <Yuv422> I take it you got your network setup then?
[06:09:01] <sbx> yeah with a simple crossover cable :)
[06:09:07] <sbx> cat5
[06:09:11] <sbx> I think it may be a Windows specific error since it should be setup correctly.
[06:09:43] <Yuv422> I just hit a button on OS X to setup my samba share
[06:09:56] * sbx grins.
[06:11:07] <sbx> I can access all the shares I add to smb.conf except home and win95.
[06:11:22] <sbx> The only difference in them is the file permissions on their directories.
[06:11:41] <Yuv422> I'm waiting for my Nintendo DS to arrive. ;)
[06:12:08] <sbx> congratulations!
[06:12:20] <sbx> I'm not into portables but I'd take one of those, or a PSP.
[06:12:25] <Yuv422> so your sharing your linux filesystem to win32
[06:12:38] <sbx> yeah
[06:13:06] <Yuv422> they don't sell the DS here in Aus yet
[06:13:19] <Yuv422> so I had to import it from Hong Kong
[06:13:28] <Yuv422> but it got held up in customs :(
[06:13:32] <sbx> Do you have any games for it or just GBA games?
[06:13:46] <sbx> I think it plays GBA games?
[06:13:47] <Yuv422> I'm getting Mario 64 DS and Mr Driller
[06:13:56] <Yuv422> yeah it plays GBA games too
[06:14:16] <sbx> It is really smart that companies are making their consoles backwards compatible now.
[06:14:55] <sbx> Then they don't have to cancel a bunch of in-production games for their old systems.
[06:15:54] <sbx> but I dont know how big a PSP is to play PS2 games
[06:16:02] <Yuv422> what were the differences between the LPath and ZPath pathfinders again?
[06:16:02] <sbx> or PS games
[06:16:28] <sbx> ZPath doesnt make a path it calculates a direction each step
[06:17:00] <sbx> with an extremely complex looking set of functions that could be simplified easily
[06:18:31] <sbx> Trying to access win95 root tells me "The network path was not found."
[06:19:16] <sbx> Trying to access sbx homedir tells me the same user cannot access multiple shares with the same username or something.
[06:20:27] <sbx> Did you see the report of the moon orb bug?
[06:20:47] <sbx> I would fix it but I don't know which quality/location goes with "2 tiles southeast".
[06:21:15] <sbx> The xlocation should only need to increased by 5.
[06:21:22] <sbx> need to be*
[06:21:32] <-- Yuv422 has left IRC ("Yuv422 has no reason")
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[06:21:45] <sbx> Yuv422 needs no reason
[06:21:50] <sbx> oh wb
[06:22:07] <Yuv422> your responses weren't coming in. :(
[06:22:16] <sbx> oh not again
[06:22:22] <Yuv422> :(
[06:22:38] <Yuv422> I wish I knew what was causing that
[06:22:56] <sbx> misconfigured firewall
[06:23:12] <Yuv422> maybe my modem is reconnecting
[06:23:20] <Yuv422> and that breaks the irc connection
[06:23:37] <Yuv422> I think IRC isn't marsqurade friendly IIRC
[06:24:32] <sbx> It works fine for me.
[06:24:34] <sbx> Only DCC doesn't work.
[06:25:15] <Yuv422> I might have to roll try_step into walk_path
[06:25:19] <Yuv422> in ZPath
[06:25:28] <sbx> what does try_step do?
[06:25:49] <sbx> I remember walk_path is the entry point from Actor.
[06:26:05] <Yuv422> I think try_step actually takes the step
[06:26:19] <sbx> that makes sense... I forgot though :)
[06:26:34] * sbx gives Yuv422 some aspirin.
[06:26:57] <sbx> you might need that if you attempt to read/modify the code
[06:27:02] <Yuv422> heh
[06:27:05] <Yuv422> hehe
[06:27:39] <sbx> really the only problem is the functions are huge and hard to read
[06:27:51] <Yuv422> I might start with LPath first
[06:28:12] <Yuv422> Actor will ask the pathfinder for the next step
[06:28:29] <Yuv422> pathfinder will return a valid step or null
[06:28:33] <Yuv422> for no step
[06:28:38] <sbx> That is still missing the feature for which it is named, that the Actors should walk long straight lines along roads instead of shortest path to target.
[06:29:03] <Yuv422> I guess we can fix that next. ;)
[06:29:06] <sbx> ok
[06:29:29] <sbx> there should be a monster pathfinder too
[06:29:53] <sbx> and somewhere I wrote down how I would take some things out of pathfinder and put them into a pathfinderclient
[06:30:06] <Yuv422> what do we need for monsters?
[06:30:14] <Yuv422> move to actor
[06:30:21] <Yuv422> move away from party
[06:30:40] <Yuv422> I guess these are based on alignment
[06:30:47] <sbx> It could behave differently based on Actor movetype and worktype.
[06:30:54] <sbx> oh a party pathfinder too
[06:31:05] <sbx> or something... some of the code in Party doesnt belong there
[06:31:58] <Yuv422> when you steal does the npc involved attack the play only?
[06:32:02] <Yuv422> in the original?
[06:32:05] * Yuv422 checks
[06:32:29] <sbx> any nearby npc you mean
[06:32:42] <Yuv422> yes
[06:33:05] <sbx> your party members will stay out of it completely even
[06:33:34] <sbx> in u7 at least they might not want to attack townspeople but they did it anyway
[06:34:47] <Yuv422> hehe
[06:34:57] <Yuv422> I stole somthing from arty
[06:35:10] <Yuv422> but he was in schedule change mode
[06:35:27] <Yuv422> so he said stop thief then teleported to his shop.
[06:35:34] <sbx> wow
[06:35:43] <sbx> that's an exploit I've never heard of before
[06:36:43] <Yuv422> it would take a bit of planning
[06:37:16] <Yuv422> yeah the npc attacks any party member
[06:37:39] <sbx> oh ok
[06:37:44] <sbx> do they attack back?
[06:38:37] <Yuv422> nope
[06:38:46] <Yuv422> they just stand there
[06:38:52] <Yuv422> even in combat mode
[06:39:39] <sbx> that's what I thought :)
[06:40:18] <Yuv422> we'll need to avoid swamp lava and dangerous field tiles
[06:40:28] <Yuv422> in the path finders to
[06:40:32] <Yuv422> where possible
[06:40:40] <sbx> oh
[06:41:14] <sbx> yes, that is why it would be good to add pathfinder client
[06:41:26] <sbx> the actual pathfinding code would stay there...
[06:41:45] <sbx> and game specific checks like tile-type would be in the main pathfinder
[06:42:25] <sbx> it is called a client because it uses functions of the main pathfinder
[06:42:34] <sbx> but you can set it when you contruct the pathfinder
[06:43:05] <sbx> I think LPath does check tile type now, with a virtual step cost function.
[06:43:17] <sbx> but it just inherits AStar
[06:45:10] <Yuv422> ah k
[06:45:36] <Yuv422> npcs won't chase you across fire fields in the original
[06:46:20] * Yuv422 stole a chair from under an npc then blocked the passageway with firefields and ran off.
[06:47:33] <sbx> nice :)
[06:47:37] <sbx> you gotta be a spellcasting avatar for that
[06:58:15] <Yuv422> or a flask welding avatar.
[06:58:21] <Yuv422> of oil that is
[07:02:40] <Yuv422> you can move objects at a distance with telekenisis
[07:02:45] <Yuv422> but not open doors
[07:05:38] <sbx> what all can it do?
[07:05:52] * Yuv422 uses telekinesis to lower the portcullis onto dupre
[07:06:24] <Yuv422> the switch moved but the portcullis didn't come down as dupre was in the way. :(
[07:06:46] <Yuv422> I guess it should have came down crushing him to death.
[07:07:21] <sbx> too bad
[07:07:36] <sbx> but he does better as a sacrifice in u7b
[07:30:12] <sbx> oh I figured out the smb access problem
[07:30:40] <sbx> I have to nanually login to \\machinename first thing.
[07:30:54] <sbx> From Start\Run
[07:30:57] <sbx> manually*
[07:31:12] <sbx> if I want to use protected read-access directories
[07:31:33] <Yuv422> so you have a two step process?
[07:32:28] <sbx> no just not as simple a step
[07:32:41] <sbx> after doing that it opens the list of shares
[07:33:04] <sbx> I now just need to figure out how to "disconnect" once I've already made a network connection so I can connect properly. WinXP stays connected even if I hit F5/Refresh.
[07:34:11] <Yuv422> can't you rightclick on the share then say disconnect?
[07:36:15] <sbx> I don't have any network drive mapped I'm just browsing then in a list for this computer.
[07:50:19] <sbx> Resetting the network connection seemed to disconnect but it still didn't ask me for a username/password when reconnecting. It just refreshed the shares list.
[07:51:17] <sbx> But when I connected with the IP address instead it did.
[08:25:04] --> luteijn has joined #nuvie
[08:25:15] <sbx> hi pieter
[08:25:21] <luteijn> hi.
[08:26:24] <luteijn> Still struggling with your network, or got it ironed out by now?
[08:27:41] <sbx> The status is the same as in the last message I sent. But it works at least.
[08:27:50] <sbx> The thing is I set it to use unencrypted passwords.
[08:28:08] <sbx> And SMB-HOWTO mentions the thing about logging in manually with \\machinename first.
[08:28:34] <sbx> I suspect it will work if I reboot; I just don't know how to reconnect that way without rebooting.
[08:28:47] <luteijn> tried closing all explorer windows yet?
[08:29:23] <sbx> Yeah... and I did have a network drive mapped at first but I disconnected it.
[08:29:43] <luteijn> I hate teh stupid way windows handles 'logging in'.
[08:29:57] <luteijn> it keeps remembering stuff you want it to forget, and the other way around.
[08:30:11] <sbx> hehe
[08:30:14] <sbx> yeah
[08:30:28] <sbx> "Multiple connections to a server or shared resource by the same user, using more than one user name, are not allowed. Disconnect all previous connections to the server or shared resource and try again."
[08:30:41] <luteijn> I have accounts for myself and for a user called 'share'.
[08:31:14] <luteijn> the machine has extra addresses so I just trick windows by using an alternaive name for the box for the second connection
[08:31:40] <sbx> oh
[08:32:03] <sbx> yeah that works, I can use the IP address and it asked for login
[08:32:13] <sbx> do you use unencrypted passwords too?
[08:32:22] <sbx> the other option was to set samba to use encrypted passwords
[08:32:28] <sbx> maybe I should do that instead
[08:32:54] <sbx> just going by the HOWTO so far I havnt RTFM :)
[08:35:49] <luteijn> So what's your overall network set-up now?
[08:36:38] <sbx> just the two machines on a crossover cable, one has slackware with Samba and the other dual boot XP/slackware
[08:37:12] <sbx> but I've been using FTP too, even before I got the new cable
[08:37:20] <luteijn> so you're just using the slackware box as a file server?
[08:37:44] <luteijn> where is your internet connection in this picture?
[08:37:53] <sbx> Yes mainly because it still has important files on it.
[08:38:15] <sbx> I have dialup modems on both and have been able to use either freely with no problems.
[08:38:34] <sbx> But I also have a route to the linux one so it can share its connection.
[08:39:21] <luteijn> You're not planning on using the linux box to 'share' internet out to the rest of your local network?
[08:40:01] <sbx> I could do that. I havn't set the XP box to use it yet.
[08:40:18] <sbx> In Linux I have to because this has a winmodem.
[08:40:41] <sbx> Well I don't have to but the winmodem drivers are restricted to 14.4Kbps unless you buy a license.
[08:42:10] <luteijn> So you already have the linux machine working as a router. Just wondering since I saw you mentioned (not getting) a $80 router in the logs.
[08:42:47] <sbx> heh
[08:42:55] <sbx> well I also saw a $30 one after that
[08:43:31] <sbx> I will get one when I get cable.
[08:44:11] <luteijn> well, if you already have the linux router, why get a separate router?
[08:44:44] <sbx> it only has one NIC
[08:44:49] <sbx> is that recommended?
[08:45:00] <sbx> I'd need a hub at least.
[08:45:44] <luteijn> depends how your cable connection connects to your computer.
[08:46:12] <luteijn> I guess most modern cable connection will use ethernet.
[08:46:22] <sbx> or usb
[08:47:30] <luteijn> if it's usb, you won't need another card. if it's ethernet you mignt not really need one but it is less confusing if you get a dedicate card for your lan and one for the cable side of things.
[08:48:28] <sbx> ok
[08:48:31] <sbx> how fast is USB?
[08:49:10] <sbx> or USB2 I'm not sure if it has that
[08:49:57] <luteijn> depends on the version, but usually enough for a cable internet connection.
[08:50:05] <luteijn> "The USB 2.0 specification has a design data rate of 480 mega bits per second."
[08:50:31] <sbx> oh ok :)
[08:52:19] <sbx> Have you played U6O?
[08:52:40] <sbx> There is a post on the forum about new features but I'm sure you know about them already.
[08:52:46] <sbx> played U6O recently*
[08:53:03] <luteijn> not for a while, as it got boring, but I saw the other day it's getting new feature's soon. If there's a new client, I'll give it another whirl
[08:53:54] <luteijn> although I have the feeling it's getting away more and more form multiplayer u6
[08:56:12] <sbx> such as?
[08:57:57] <luteijn> e.g. the +x weapons mentioned.
[08:59:33] <sbx> ??
[09:00:06] <luteijn> http://www.geocities.com/galleondragon/
[09:00:27] <luteijn> in the list of upcoming changes.
[09:06:16] <sbx> Hmm I don't get it
[09:07:44] <luteijn> the way I read the announcement there, there will be 'magical' versions of the weapons that give bonusses to attack.
[09:08:16] <sbx> What? I hope not.
[09:08:40] <sbx> Did you read the forum post?
[09:09:08] <luteijn> reading it now ;)
[09:11:13] <luteijn> hmm that doesn't mention the magic weapons.
[09:11:47] <luteijn> I wonder if bows are now worth the effort.
[09:13:29] <sbx> I hope so I really want to use them. I have good DEX.
[09:15:16] <luteijn> still, you'll lose one hand. that can't be used to wield a shield. and there's probably still no way to keep monsters from closing in on you.
[09:16:36] <sbx> Would it be overkill to add automovement?
[09:16:57] <sbx> So if you're using a melee weapon you will chase enemies, and using a bow you will stay a certain distance away from them.
[09:18:23] <luteijn> I still think it would be better to make u6o turn-based (with an automatic 'pass'/keep attacking every x ms)
[09:19:51] <luteijn> would solve most lag problems and give you time to attack/move/cast in a more controlled way.
[09:21:49] <sbx> turn based... you mean the server is turn based with each turn taking a certain amount of time?
[09:21:59] <sbx> and commands you send during that time count for that turn
[09:22:16] <sbx> and not doing anything is the automatic pass/attack
[09:22:39] <luteijn> yes. with a one command 'buffer' where the pending command is overwritten by whateveer new commands you send (changing your mind)
[09:22:54] <luteijn> basically it is doing this now already, with really short turns.
[09:23:12] <luteijn> which means that you lose lots of turns if you're not 'close' to the server.
[09:24:20] <luteijn> the length of the turn should be longer than the lag you have, but shorter than say 750 mseconds, or it will lose the feeling of being near realtime.
[09:27:31] <sbx> Yes... I think that would even add to the feeling that you're playing U6!
[09:28:14] <sbx> The turn should be short enough that walking by holding the arrow key (or mouse button if that's added) down will still move at nearly the same speed it does now.
[09:28:47] <luteijn> I think 2-4 steps per second would be okay.
[09:29:16] <luteijn> Which gives you a turn length of 500-250 ms.
[09:33:20] <sbx> For some reason I think they wouldn't add it.
[09:34:02] <luteijn> if the steps are to slow, there could be 'run' commands, moving 2-3 squares in 1 direction when holding shift. or it coulddynamically decide to start jogging..
[09:34:58] <sbx> the vehicles/horses could still move faster then
[09:35:24] <sbx> faster meaning more tiles per turn
[09:35:34] <luteijn> hwo hard it is to add depends on how they're handling incomming network traffic now.
[09:35:37] <sbx> although it would be better if you could reduce their turn time somehow
[09:36:02] <sbx> at least it isn't DirectPlayer anymore
[09:36:07] <sbx> DirectPlay*
[09:36:09] <luteijn> well the ships are hard to navigate at high speed anyway.
[09:37:02] <luteijn> I would make them 'run' (possibly at higher speed) when you use the normal commands, and move one square per turn if you're using the 'shift' key
[09:37:25] <luteijn> so you can safely dock without ramming the pier.
[09:37:38] <sbx> Is there anyway to set turn speed per client?
[09:37:55] <luteijn> you'd not want that.
[09:37:58] <sbx> instead of one global turn
[09:38:04] <sbx> you'd have to sync it somehow
[09:38:31] <luteijn> but you could do it by making a global turn short, say 100 ms, and just insert 'waitstates' for slower clients.
[09:39:24] <luteijn> high dex could then reduce wait states slightly, so you occasionally get an extra attack.
[09:40:11] <luteijn> the thing is that there is a turn now, only it's not explicitly defined, and its not fxed length, its whatever timeit takes the server to complete its main loop once.
[09:41:44] <sbx> right
[09:41:50] <sbx> it would certainly help with my connection
[09:42:05] <sbx> or I guess anyone not near australia
[09:42:41] <luteijn> one basic way they could do this is to artificially lengthen the time the main loop takes.
[09:43:24] <sbx> and then lengthen time for each client too
[09:43:57] <luteijn> well the client's would only get update once in a while then.
[09:44:32] <luteijn> of course then everyone suddley has the equivalent of lag, so people will be tappnig instead of holding keys.
[09:44:59] <luteijn> so the next thing to add is something that drops all keypresses at the start of a turn (except for the last one received)
[09:45:01] <sbx> dont the clients run in seperate threads?
[09:46:00] <luteijn> I have no idea, but even if they do, they'll have to link in with the 'world' somehow, which is moving at a slower pace.
[09:47:32] <luteijn> I would have made the server just loop over all clients to collect their moves for this turn, then process all moves, and send back the results to the clients.
[09:47:46] <luteijn> no need to make separate threads I think.
[09:48:13] <luteijn> but I'm looking at it through unix glasses...
[09:58:01] <sbx> Sorry I was doign something AFK.
[09:58:17] <luteijn> ok
[09:58:20] <sbx> I think they made seperate threads so a delay on one client doesn't lag the others.
[09:58:38] <sbx> of course, it isn't turn based yet :)
[09:58:55] <sbx> but I guess that's not what you meant
[10:00:17] <luteijn> I don't see why a delay in one client wouldhold up the rest of the program...
[10:00:53] <luteijn> unless they're performing some kind of non-atomic operation and waiting for it to finish before moving on to the next client.
[10:03:53] <luteijn> I guess they'll still have some sort of central process that decides what to send to which client. increasing the time for the (implicit) turn on the main processing thingy would make the game as a whole seem turnbased.. the separate threads don't matter then.
[10:07:46] <sbx> yeah
[10:16:38] <luteijn> Hmm, I drew my home network and it's probably more extensive than many small office's
[10:17:59] <sbx> lol
[10:18:10] <sbx> If it's extensive enough to draw that's enough. :)
[10:19:11] <sbx> Here is mine: [1]--------[2]
[10:19:38] <luteijn> well, you also have two modem links...
[10:20:36] <luteijn> and maybe the serial cable is also still there?
[10:21:12] <sbx> <-~-[1]--------[2]-~->
[10:21:17] <sbx> what serial cable?
[10:21:46] <luteijn> or whatever you used to connect 1 to 2 before the ethernet age.
[10:22:17] <sbx> Oh yeah that was a homemade parallel cable. It's not connected.
[10:23:02] <sbx> does a printer count as a node?
[10:23:12] <sbx> shared printer
[10:23:51] <luteijn> I didn't put mine in as it's manually switched around by replugging the usb cable.
[10:25:06] <sbx> I only have one monitor which I share between the two computers if necessary.
[10:25:44] <luteijn> whenever my linux machine breaks down too much I have to get a monitor from storage and fiddle with long cables...
[10:26:52] <luteijn> so I've learned to properly shut it down when messing around with the mains electricity.
[10:31:25] <luteijn> http://luteijn.xs4all.nl/pictures/home-network.gif
[10:34:15] <sbx> its certainly a big picture
[10:34:32] <sbx> wireless??
[10:34:38] <sbx> heh
[10:34:38] <sbx> That's all that has loaded so far.
[10:36:26] <luteijn> The wireless just simple 802.11b, but now I can go online everywhere in the house ;)
[10:37:01] <sbx> that must be the next step and even fewer cables if you didnt use a laptop computer
[10:37:07] <sbx> what are the funky lightning bolts?
[10:37:58] <luteijn> links to the outside ;)
[10:39:23] <luteijn> it started out with just a linux box and a modem..
[10:39:27] <sbx> yeah that's a couple of small offices
[10:40:24] <sbx> I shall follow the directions on your website to your home and check it out.
[10:40:30] <sbx> good job
[10:40:47] <luteijn> I need to update that webpage...
[10:41:11] <luteijn> but the adress is right so if you're in the neighbourhood ;)
[10:41:22] <sbx> why do you dial-in to the main box?
[10:41:38] <sbx> from the X terminal?
[10:42:27] <luteijn> only did that ones, when the ethernet was broken.
[10:42:33] <luteijn> once
[10:43:20] <luteijn> (grabbing some lunch).
[10:43:22] <sbx> I guess it's a convenient backup then.
[10:43:38] <sbx> like a direct serial connection
[10:50:08] <sbx> Is 10Mbit the fastest wireless LAN connection available?
[10:52:57] <luteijn> 11 mbit shared is 802.11b
[10:53:14] <luteijn> but there's 54 Mbit versions too
[10:54:03] <luteijn> for internet 10Mbit is fast enough, but if for your local network you'll want more.
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[11:22:07] <Yuv422> I've seen a wireless card that claims 108 Mbit
[11:22:29] <Yuv422> but it is a custom format only supported by that particular brand
[11:22:43] <Yuv422> netgear if memory serves
[11:25:26] <luteijn> probably uses more than one channel
[11:25:58] <sbx2> My network card says 200Mbit in full-duplex mode. How do I switch that on in Linux if possible? Some setting under /proc?
[11:26:16] <luteijn> 200 Mbit in full duplex is 100 Mbit each direction
[11:26:27] <luteijn> which is the normal speed for a fastethernet.
[11:26:48] <Yuv422> how about gigabit which is actually 500Mbit duplex.
[11:27:09] <Yuv422> but gigabit sounds a lot nicer than 500 Mbit
[11:27:33] <luteijn> if both cards support it, it should 'just work' usually you can see it from the leds.
[11:27:36] <sbx2> oh
[11:28:07] <luteijn> just try to transfer a large file and count the number of seconds it takes to transfer it.
[11:28:22] <Yuv422> ifconfig might indicate what speed the cards are running at.
[11:29:08] <sbx2> ok
[11:29:25] <sbx2> it is fast enough; I just remembered that
[11:29:50] <sbx2> I like the blinking LEDs. :)
[11:30:29] <luteijn> now that you no longer need to use your parallel port for linking computers, you can use it to blink leds ;)
[11:31:20] <sbx2> it wouldn't be the same though
[11:32:01] <luteijn> the blinking doesn't need to be random.
[11:32:13] <sbx2> heh
[11:32:36] <sbx2> the Wearables Computer HOWTO mentions somepeople who use LEDs to get information from their computers
[11:32:48] <luteijn> you could use it to display load etc.
[11:33:34] <luteijn> a small lcd screen is more fun..
[11:34:42] <sbx2> How about one of those globed "3D" clock displays?
[11:35:40] <sbx2> I saw a couple the other day. The display has many different effects.
[11:35:47] <luteijn> never seen them. is that like the leds on a pendulum that display the time?
[11:35:53] <sbx2> yeah
[11:36:14] <sbx2> but it reflects it off the inside surface of a globe I think
[11:36:35] <sbx2> or there was something moving so fast I didn't see it
[11:37:14] <luteijn> the pendulum thing might be fun to make yourself and use to write short messages in the air over your computer..
[11:38:16] <sbx2> I don't think I could make the whole thing myself. I could rig it up to the parallel port.
[11:38:31] <sbx2> like status messages that pass by
[11:38:38] <sbx2> or cpu temp
[11:39:09] <luteijn> the hardest thing to make is probably the mechanical part.
[11:39:31] <luteijn> I wonder if the parallle port can be driven fast enough, but probably it's possible.
[11:40:04] <luteijn> "Load=2" "Login:" "Password:" etc.
[11:41:11] * Yuv422 looks at Pieter's network diagram
[11:42:02] <Yuv422> It looks like your modems are being struck by lightning. ;)
[11:42:22] <luteijn> The standard visio shape is a little to fat yes.
[11:47:25] <sbx2> where do you get the icons?
[11:48:09] <luteijn> No idea. as far as I know they come with visio
[11:51:29] <sbx2> "Visio is a drawing package based on the green plastic drawing templates of the past." ?
[11:52:15] <luteijn> basically it allows you to draw squares and lines yes.
[11:52:35] <luteijn> comparable to xfig.
[11:53:45] <sbx2> i see
[11:56:51] <Yuv422> just looking at sourceforge
[11:57:21] <Yuv422> we've had over 50,000 page views on the nuvie website now. :)
[11:59:41] <sbx2> wow
[11:59:45] <Yuv422> sbx2: is there a reason why Lpath doesn't implement the get_next_step() method?
[11:59:49] <sbx2> I feel embarrassed not to be working fast enough
[12:00:02] <sbx2> though I havnt been really busy in the last month...
[12:00:11] <sbx2> what implements get_next_step()?
[12:00:38] <Yuv422> I guess it's our right as hobbiest developers to work at what ever speed we choose. ;)
[12:00:45] <Yuv422> or is that rite
[12:00:53] <sbx2> I suppose so.
[12:01:06] <Yuv422> it returns dest in pathfinder
[12:01:18] <sbx2> LPath probably uses dest then
[12:01:23] <luteijn> anyone that wants the project to speed up is free to contribute ;)
[12:01:29] <Yuv422> return(path[step_count - 1]);
[12:01:33] <Yuv422> in ZPath
[12:01:40] <sbx2> ZPath uses path?
[12:01:41] <Yuv422> luteijn: true. ;)
[12:01:42] <sbx2> I forgot that
[12:02:44] <Yuv422> get_next_step is only ever called in ZPath
[12:03:12] <sbx2> How does LPath get the next step?
[12:03:36] <Yuv422> it does the same logic but in the walk_path method
[12:03:45] <sbx2> ...
[12:03:56] <Yuv422> // have a path, take a step
[12:03:56] <Yuv422> uint16 nx = path[next_step].x, ny = path[next_step].y;
[12:03:56] <Yuv422> uint8 nz = path[next_step].z;
[12:04:07] <Yuv422> we sort of
[12:04:10] <Yuv422> well
[12:04:49] * sbx2 uses his ethernet connection to access the Nuvie source on the other computer.
[12:05:01] <Yuv422> :)
[12:05:18] <sbx2> that's not really the same though
[12:05:36] <sbx2> one depends on step_count
[12:05:45] <Yuv422> next_step is decremented later in the method
[12:05:55] <sbx2> so its arbitrary
[12:06:31] <Yuv422> what's the difference between step_count and next_step?
[12:06:44] <Yuv422> are they two ways of looking at the same thing?
[12:07:06] <sbx2> no
[12:07:15] <sbx2> step_count shouldnt change
[12:07:55] <sbx2> oh
[12:08:05] <sbx2> in ZPath a short path is only set up to walk around a big obstacle
[12:08:27] <sbx2> the big avoid_obstacle() does that
[12:08:52] <sbx2> step_count - 1 is always the "next step"
[12:09:00] <sbx2> path[step_count - 1]*
[12:09:02] <Yuv422> step_count is being decremented in ZPath:pop_dest()
[12:09:05] <sbx2> since the nodes are stored backwards
[12:09:23] <sbx2> yeah zpath doesnt store actual steps but nodes which could be any distance apart
[12:09:52] <sbx2> when it gets to one the next one (step_count - 1) - 1 is next
[12:10:07] <sbx2> that's what it looks like anyway.
[12:10:17] <sbx2> I'm sort of going by memory.
[12:10:30] <Yuv422> so in ZPath the path isn't known in advance?
[12:10:42] <Yuv422> is the path determined in walk_path?
[12:11:11] <Yuv422> could an external function call get_next_step() to walk along the path?
[12:11:13] <sbx2> no that would be try_step() if there is no path...
[12:11:26] <sbx2> ZPath just picks a direction and goes.
[12:11:32] <sbx2> There is only a path set if an obstacle was encountered.
[12:11:55] <sbx2> no
[12:12:02] <sbx2> get_next_step would only give you a destination
[12:12:07] <sbx2> not an actual step towards it
[12:12:23] <Yuv422> but the dest might not be the final dest?
[12:12:27] <sbx2> that must be why I overrode it
[12:12:37] <sbx2> no it probably isnt
[12:12:44] <Yuv422> ah k
[12:12:57] <sbx2> ZPath is used when the actual destination is a moving target.
[12:12:59] <sbx2> Or could be
[12:14:42] <Yuv422> so I should treat walk_path like a get_next_step
[12:15:49] <sbx2> Yeah that goes for all pathfinders.
[12:15:59] <sbx2> walk_path() just means keep going/update
[12:16:04] <Yuv422> righto
[12:16:46] <sbx2> In the case of ZPath it will normally just call try_step() to move in a direction using an odd method meant to duplicate U6 party member movement.
[12:20:12] <sbx2> Is there a way to view all files in IE's temp/cache folder?
[12:20:33] <sbx2> I made the mistake of getting part of a file in IE and I'd like to resume it if it is there.
[12:20:44] <Yuv422> you might be able to get a cache viewer program.
[12:20:55] <sbx2> oh?
[12:21:01] <Yuv422> you could sort the cache by date
[12:21:11] <Yuv422> then guess at the file size?
[12:21:15] <luteijn> if the cache is on the disk, can't you just find the file with dir name.ext /s ?
[12:21:37] <sbx2> let me see...
[12:22:06] * sbx2 waits.
[12:22:06] <luteijn> although it probably has a weird name...
[12:22:47] <sbx2> Do cache viewers let you see more files than Windows Explorer?
[12:23:19] <Yuv422> not too sure
[12:24:42] <luteijn> cache is in "windows"\Temporary internet files isn't it?
[12:26:52] <sbx2> \Documents and Settings\UserName\Local Settings\Temporary Internet Files
[12:27:22] <Yuv422> I'm sure the'd change that location with every new version of windows. :)
[12:27:29] <Yuv422> they'd
[12:27:39] <sbx2> yup
[12:27:52] <luteijn> probably you can find the correct directory name from a registyr value..
[12:28:00] <sbx2> sometimes I just see a Content.IE5 directory
[12:28:08] <sbx2> but right now I see a ton of files, none of them correct
[12:28:15] <sbx2> usually they have the correct exention though
[12:28:23] <sbx2> extension*
[12:31:12] <sbx2> What happened to Ward Yelverton? :)
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[13:20:31] <sbx2> bbl
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[13:45:06] <Yuv422> time for bed
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