#nuvie@irc.freenode.net logs for 4 Oct 2004 (GMT)

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[01:09:44] --> Yuv422 has joined #nuvie
[01:09:51] <Yuv422> hi
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[01:17:04] <-- Yuv422 has left IRC ("Yuv422 has no reason")
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[01:43:15] <Sheng_Gradilla> :)
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[02:49:14] <Yuv422> hi sbx
[02:50:59] <sbx> hi
[02:51:05] <sbx> i'm cold
[02:51:15] <Yuv422> that's no good
[02:51:32] <Yuv422> It's a nice spring day here
[02:51:45] <Yuv422> lots of blue sky.
[02:51:54] <sbx> hehe
[02:51:58] <sbx> it's nighttime
[02:52:07] <sbx> but it's probably just cold because of the AC
[02:56:06] <Yuv422> Sam's exult3D was well received on the exult forum. :)
[02:59:28] <sbx> yeah!
[02:59:31] <sbx> I thought it would be
[03:03:28] * Sheng_Gradilla hugs sbx
[03:03:49] <Yuv422> how do we know that an object has been used from the ground?
[03:03:51] <Sheng_Gradilla> why shouldn't it? :D
[03:04:05] <Sheng_Gradilla> (about Exult3D)
[03:04:14] <Yuv422> :)
[03:16:51] <sbx> if it's not in your inventory or a container it is used from the ground
[03:30:05] <sbx> is the toolbar functional in SE?
[03:35:43] <Yuv422> nope
[03:35:53] <sbx> ah k ;)
[03:36:03] <sbx> I saw it in Dino's screenshots
[03:36:20] <Yuv422> It's just in the background image I think
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[03:45:50] <Yuv422> http://home.iprimus.com.au/ozstick/prod_cocktail.html
[03:52:57] <sbx> hehe
[03:53:00] <sbx> I've never used one of those
[03:53:05] <Yuv422> really
[03:53:11] <Yuv422> they are great
[03:53:18] <sbx> I wonder if they can get into trouble for selling MAME
[03:53:25] <Yuv422> but a little uncomfortable for long gaming sessions
[03:53:30] <sbx> oh
[03:53:48] <Yuv422> probably not as long as they make the source available
[03:54:09] <Yuv422> you're probably not buying the mame software just the cabinet
[03:54:29] <Yuv422> the only downside to that one is that it can only play vertical games
[03:54:32] <sbx> yeah not technically
[03:55:06] <Yuv422> I'd like one. Not to sure where I'd put it though
[03:55:11] <sbx> I was thinking from game manufacturers. They try to argue that selling the emulator potentially causes gross infringement on their copyright. (even though it doesnt)
[03:55:23] <sbx> I'd get one if I had money to spare :)
[03:55:29] <Yuv422> ah k
[03:55:30] <sbx> Personally I want the Robosapien personal robot first
[03:55:38] <sbx> $99
[03:55:38] <Yuv422> hehe
[03:55:49] <Yuv422> bbl
[03:55:54] <Yuv422> time to get some lunch
[03:56:17] <sbx> ok
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[07:16:07] <sbx> I'm trying to add arrows to party view
[07:16:14] <sbx> but the party members are on the far left
[07:16:25] <Yuv422> hmm
[07:16:31] * Yuv422 looks
[07:17:14] <sbx> the partyview should be 8px bigger i guess
[07:19:25] <Yuv422> yeah
[07:19:43] <Yuv422> that might effect the other view types.
[07:19:54] <Yuv422> another bug I see with the party view
[07:20:13] <Yuv422> if you click on an actor it always brings up the avatars equip
[07:21:21] <sbx> Yup there's a lot of View things that do that
[07:21:30] <sbx> Since there is no concept of "previous view"
[07:21:48] <sbx> or layers
[07:23:10] <sbx> Oh but we do have a concept of current actor, so I guess that's a bug
[07:23:29] <sbx> Clicking on an actor should bring up their equip and clicking on a name should show their portrait.
[07:24:31] <sbx> Oh
[07:24:39] <sbx> the arrows won't display because, I think, the mapborder is drawn after them
[07:24:57] <Yuv422> ah
[07:25:33] <Yuv422> we should probably start thinking about floating views too
[07:25:48] <Yuv422> and multiple views at the same time. :)
[07:25:57] <Yuv422> for when we go full screen.
[07:26:44] <sbx> that will be fun
[07:26:44] <sbx> let me do errorbox first
[07:27:34] <sbx> I don't know how to make the Party arrows draw over the mapborder :\
[07:27:45] <sbx> The draw order is controlled by GUI
[07:28:28] <Yuv422> righto
[07:28:43] <sbx> Hmm, add mapwindow to GUI first I guess
[07:29:39] <sbx> Well it already is!
[07:29:53] <sbx> Each viewcomponent is added when its switched to
[07:31:39] <Yuv422> are you trying to draw the arrows outside the widget boundary?
[07:31:46] <Yuv422> maybe that's why they aren't displaying?
[07:33:31] <sbx> yes
[07:33:40] <sbx> but they are Text
[07:33:40] <sbx> how would that know?
[07:33:49] <Yuv422> clipping rect?
[07:33:56] <Yuv422> how are you drawing it?
[07:34:11] <Yuv422> if you're using the SDL stuff then it won't clip
[07:34:55] <sbx> text->drawChar(screen, 25, area.x, area.y + 64, 0x48);
[07:35:27] <Yuv422> that sounds alright
[07:35:29] <sbx> ... screen->blit(x,y,buf,8,8,8,8,true,NULL);
[07:35:53] <sbx> I dont see where a rectangle is set
[07:36:15] <Yuv422> there mustn't be any clipping then
[07:36:56] <sbx> Yes the text doesn't even know It's in a widget it should be able to draw anywhere
[07:37:26] <Yuv422> try turning off the map border
[07:38:14] <Yuv422> in MapWindow::Display()
[07:38:27] <Yuv422> drawBorder();
[07:39:39] <sbx> yeah
[07:39:43] <sbx> i still dont see it :\
[07:40:03] <sbx> Ill draw a bigger string
[07:40:47] <Yuv422> are area.x/y relative or absolute? I forget.
[07:41:45] <sbx> absolute
[07:41:50] <Yuv422> :)
[07:42:10] <sbx> that's what I used to draw off the edge (area.x-8) which I realize could crash
[07:44:14] <sbx> nothing at the map or that strip between map and view is drawn
[07:44:42] <sbx> well I guess it is clipping
[07:45:31] <sbx> moving the view fixed it :)
[07:45:55] <Yuv422> hmm
[07:46:25] <Yuv422> ah
[07:46:34] <Yuv422> the sdl rect might not be updating
[07:46:59] <Yuv422> so it won't get drawn to the screen surface
[07:48:26] <sbx> Yes that's probably it!
[07:49:32] <sbx> How can I make PartyView bigger without making them all bigger?
[07:49:51] <sbx> The size is passed by ViewManager, but the width and height is set in View.
[07:50:15] <sbx> well I suppose I can just override it in PartyView and call set_area again
[07:51:45] <sbx> I mean SetRect
[07:53:04] <Yuv422> would it hurt to make the others bigger?
[07:53:27] <sbx> I'd have to change all their drawing functions to move everything 8px to the right
[07:53:57] <sbx> Curious, if area.x/y is absolute, why does GUI_Widget::Init call SetArea(0, 0, w, h)?
[07:54:36] <Yuv422> if I recall correctly it isn't absolute at some stages
[07:54:48] <Yuv422> only after the widget is placed on the screen.
[07:55:17] <sbx> hmm OK
[07:55:37] <sbx> so I'f I'm already onscreen SetArea(area.x, area.y, area.w+8, area.h)
[07:56:31] <Yuv422> but some widgets don't update their whole area each Display cycle
[07:56:45] <Yuv422> they only update the parts that have changed
[07:56:54] <Yuv422> unless a full redraw is called.
[08:01:24] <sbx> what all is offset_x/y used for?
[08:03:30] <Yuv422> I think I replaced the area.x/y with offset
[08:03:54] <Yuv422> so I could keep track of relative offset after the widget was placed on the screen.
[08:06:39] <sbx> oh ok
[08:20:08] <sbx> Guard's HP is 0?
[08:20:25] <Yuv422> hmm
[08:20:39] <servus> Aren't guards immortal?
[08:20:40] <Yuv422> do we set HP for temp actors?
[08:22:04] <sbx> Guard's arent immortal
[08:22:11] <sbx> They are a wonderful source of equipment in U6.
[08:22:14] <sbx> Guards*
[08:22:42] <sbx> Yuv422: no that's right, sorry
[08:23:02] <sbx> I added one to my party and noticed he had 0 hp :)
[08:23:59] <Yuv422> should we allow non-original weapons in nuvie?
[08:24:20] <sbx> what you mean spammed?
[08:24:32] <Yuv422> any old object
[08:24:42] <Yuv422> like a fish?
[08:25:50] <sbx> oh
[08:26:15] * sbx smacks exultbot around with a wet trout.
[08:26:42] <sbx> not really
[08:26:51] <Yuv422> can you fish in fountains?
[08:26:56] <Yuv422> in the original?
[08:27:03] <sbx> never tried it
[08:27:10] <sbx> what are you fishing for? :)
[08:27:35] <Yuv422> old car tyres.
[08:27:45] <sbx> It got away. It got away. It got away. It got away. You pull up a gold coin!
[08:28:33] <Yuv422> nope
[08:28:41] <sbx> In U7 you could make Spark get into the fountain and dig around for money.
[08:28:41] <Yuv422> you can't fish in fountains. :(
[08:28:45] <sbx> aww too bad
[08:30:51] * Yuv422 gets inspired and starts working on use:fishing pole
[08:31:23] <sbx> Go Eric Go!
[08:31:42] <sbx> make it as annoying as it was in the original :)(
[08:31:42] <sbx> :
[08:31:42] <sbx> :)*
[08:32:41] <Yuv422> of course.
[08:37:01] <Yuv422> what do you think the catch probability is?
[08:37:46] <Yuv422> hmm
[08:37:51] <Yuv422> first things first
[08:37:54] <Yuv422> food time
[08:37:55] <Yuv422> bbl
[08:39:27] <sbx> ok
[08:43:47] <sbx> 30%
[08:44:27] <sbx> 35%
[08:44:39] <sbx> You just have to be standing next to a shore tile, don't target anything.
[08:45:12] <sbx> wait 15%
[08:45:18] <sbx> here are the strings
[08:45:32] <sbx> fishing pole
[08:45:32] <sbx> Got it, but can't carry it.
[08:45:32] <sbx> Got it!
[08:45:32] <sbx> Didn't get a fish.
[08:45:32] <sbx> You need to stand next to water.
[09:17:58] * sbx repeatedly uses a guard spawn egg to get an army.
[09:20:49] * Yuv422 now has a magic fishing pole that can catch a fish anyware. :)
[09:21:06] <sbx> :)
[09:21:10] <sbx> you can fish in the middle of docks
[09:21:13] <sbx> in U6
[09:21:17] <sbx> you don't have to be right on the water
[09:21:33] <sbx> and actually the percent success is 21% after 10 tries
[09:22:08] <sbx> We should equip your magic poles on my guard army.
[09:22:26] <sbx> I don't know why, it just seems like a cool idea.
[09:27:14] <sbx> http://members.cox.net/~sbx/nuvie-guardparty.png
[09:29:51] <Yuv422> nice
[09:30:08] <Yuv422> I hope your guard army will be virtuous.
[09:31:05] <Yuv422> ok my fishing pole usecode requires an adjacent water square
[09:31:34] <Yuv422> so use:fishing_pole from the center of the docks doesn't work
[09:32:09] <sbx> why?
[09:32:22] <Yuv422> no reason really
[09:32:26] <Yuv422> just preference
[09:32:38] <Yuv422> do you think it should be like the original?
[09:33:44] <sbx> I'm not committed to it
[09:33:48] <sbx> I never fished
[09:34:26] <sbx> The only problem I'm having is that clicks on the partyarrows go down to MapWindow?
[09:34:36] <sbx> If I return GUI_YUM shouldn't that stop them from being passed down?
[09:36:00] <Yuv422> what about mouseup?
[09:37:11] <sbx> It even passed mousedown
[09:39:45] <Yuv422> is there a focus issue?
[09:40:06] <sbx> perhaps
[09:40:15] <sbx> but I *think* nothing should be focused at this point
[09:40:24] <sbx> so PartyView would get it first
[09:49:11] <Yuv422> ok use fishing pole is done
[10:01:03] <Yuv422> my next update will break old savegames
[10:01:14] <Yuv422> I've put in a version check
[10:01:58] <Yuv422> so old saves will not break nuvie
[10:06:30] <sbx> It was the stupid double-click code letting mouseclicks passdown ^_^;;
[10:06:38] <Yuv422> ah
[10:06:47] <Yuv422> was that for all widgets?
[10:07:02] <sbx> yeah
[10:07:57] <sbx> What would old saves do?
[10:08:00] <sbx> If you didnt check for them
[10:08:16] <Yuv422> cause the app to segfault
[10:08:34] <sbx> ouch
[10:08:35] <Yuv422> because the data isn't in the expected locations.
[10:08:41] <sbx> nice fix :)
[10:08:54] <sbx> would it be hard to make a different loading method for each version?
[10:09:04] <Yuv422> we could do it
[10:09:14] <Yuv422> probably not worth it just yet
[10:09:17] <sbx> Not important in the least at this point... but in the future I mean.
[10:09:32] <Yuv422> maybe when we get end users actually playing the game properly
[10:09:35] <Yuv422> :)
[10:09:38] <sbx> hehe
[10:09:40] <sbx> yaeh
[10:10:01] <sbx> Is it completable yet?
[10:10:09] <Yuv422> probably not
[10:10:26] <Yuv422> well the end trigger doesn't work for starters
[10:10:52] <Yuv422> spells are probably needed to complete the game too
[10:11:15] <sbx> Oh right
[10:11:16] <sbx> unlock magic
[10:11:21] <sbx> and dispell field
[10:11:21] <wjp> hm.. speaking of spells; how did U6's magic system work again?
[10:11:23] <sbx> though there are scrolls
[10:11:39] <Yuv422> you put them in a magic book
[10:11:45] <Yuv422> then look at it via a custom view
[10:11:48] <sbx> U6 is a step between U5 and U7
[10:12:00] <sbx> You can click the spell names in that view or type the names
[10:12:12] <sbx> Well, type the first letter of each word
[10:12:15] <Yuv422> I think you selected them with a cursor
[10:12:18] <wjp> you can cast without mixing stuff? Just need the reagents?
[10:12:26] <sbx> Yeah it will mix automatically
[10:12:40] <wjp> could multiple chars cast spells?
[10:12:45] <sbx> It shows the cast count next to the spellname like U7
[10:13:07] <wjp> (or just the avatar?)
[10:13:47] <sbx> I want to say yes but I don't really remember doing that.
[10:13:58] <sbx> But Jaana has MP
[10:14:21] <wjp> weren't there things like staves or wands as well?
[10:15:00] <sbx> yeah
[10:18:05] <sbx> Ok, anyone in U6 can cast but most people don't have any magic power. :)
[10:18:12] <sbx> Anyone can cast Help.
[10:18:52] <Yuv422> do you know how to workout max magic points?
[10:19:19] <sbx> maybe int*2
[10:19:27] <Yuv422> ah k
[10:19:54] <wjp> did U6 still have the concept of character class?
[10:20:10] <Yuv422> not too sure
[10:20:32] <Yuv422> shamino int: 18 max magic: 9
[10:21:04] <sbx> Oh, I thought I was reading that in Nuvie :)
[10:21:08] <sbx> yeah they can cast a little
[10:21:17] <wjp> from what I remember it's either half int, int or twice int depending on class
[10:21:30] <wjp> but I'm just not sure if that's in U6 or in U4/5 :-)
[10:21:36] <Yuv422> ah k
[10:21:40] <sbx> It must be hardcoded for each NPCtype
[10:21:49] <sbx> All of the Avatar's stats are determined by your answer to the gypsies questions
[10:22:54] <sbx> That's half int for Shamino and Iolo btw
[10:23:02] <servus> Galleon Dragon's Ultima 6 online looks strangely smoothly lit.
[10:23:15] <Yuv422> hehe
[10:23:40] <Yuv422> I'm not too sure who had smooth lighting first.
[10:25:43] <servus> They had lighting as of 12/10/03, apparently.
[10:25:59] <sbx> You can't even cast Help in U6 without enough MP.
[10:26:17] <Yuv422> when did we get smooth lighting?
[10:26:47] <wjp> http://nuvie.sourceforge.net/phorum/read.php?f=1&i=70&t=70
[10:27:17] <servus> November 25 2003.
[10:27:51] <Yuv422> thanks wjp,servus
[10:27:56] <Yuv422> interesting.
[10:28:15] <Yuv422> servus: is that 10th of Dec?
[10:28:31] <Yuv422> I get confused with american dates
[10:28:32] <servus> How curious. (I recognized the gaussian lighting pattern we use in U6O anyway, I just think it's funny :) ), and yes it is.
[10:28:46] <servus> mon/day/year.
[10:28:55] <sbx> I prefer YYYY-MM-DD
[10:29:11] <sbx> It sorts nicely.
[10:29:12] <servus> I use that at work *grin*
[10:31:04] <Yuv422> well if he is using nuvie's lighting code he's violating the GPL. :(
[10:31:28] <Yuv422> bbl
[10:31:43] <sbx> ok
[10:32:09] <servus> Oh, well, hmm, you can do a simple xor of his image and one you create yourself, see how similar it is.
[10:32:29] <servus> Is the screenshot on his site http://www.geocities.com/galleondragon/222_1.jpg part of the original map?
[10:32:35] <wjp> even if they're the same he could've just copied the algorithm and not the code
[10:33:01] <servus> I don't care, personally, I just find it amusing.
[10:33:14] <servus> ... that anyone would want to copy my code *smirk*
[11:19:15] <Yuv422> I'm going out now
[11:19:20] <Yuv422> cya
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[11:19:23] <sbx> cya
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[16:20:55] <sbx> hi laxdragon
[16:21:17] <laxdragon> hey sbx, how goes everything.
[16:21:27] <sbx> great
[16:21:34] <sbx> Yuv422 said he broke the forum :)
[16:21:45] <sbx> but its fine, just has odd colors
[16:22:30] <laxdragon> doh. I can take a look. Sure I can figure it out, I wasn't the one who put that in place. Just the main part of the site.
[16:24:20] <laxdragon> hmmm, doesn't look too bad.
[16:25:07] <sbx> I wish we had sticky threads
[16:25:17] <sbx> But that's just a phorum problem
[16:28:59] <wjp> phorum version 5 appears to have sticky threads
[16:29:33] <sbx> nice
[16:29:43] <sbx> an upgrade is in order!
[16:30:27] <wjp> I wonder if they still have that brain-dead password-change "feature" :-)
[16:30:56] <sbx> I lost my Nuvie forum password too and had to ask Eric for it, like I asked you.
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[16:34:10] <wjp> allowing password changes isn't bad in itself, but the way they did it allowed everyone to trigger a change of everyone's password
[16:37:11] <sbx> that's no good
[16:37:51] <wjp> (note that they couldn't control or find out the new password, but it would still be extremely annoying for the 'target' :-) )
[16:38:13] <wjp> maybe I should install phorum 5 locally to see how it behaves
[16:39:40] <sbx> Somebody signed me up for Yahoo! Fantasy Sports
[16:39:49] <wjp> yay! :-)
[16:39:51] <sbx> without me even confirming it
[16:40:01] <sbx> And they set my name as "dindin_butterball"
[16:40:15] <sbx> So I would get monthly or weekly mails when I had that account :p
[16:40:17] <wjp> oh? so Yahoo! has braindead security as well?
[16:40:37] <sbx> I guess, and I couldn't unsubscribe!
[16:40:42] <sbx> at least, couldnt find any place to do it
[16:41:05] <sbx> At least one mail provider has blocked Yahoo! because they refused to deal with spam.
[16:41:13] <sbx> sort of related
[16:46:05] <wjp> hm, "Enter your email address below and a new password will be sent to you."
[16:46:17] <wjp> sounds like they still have that "feature"
[16:46:33] <wjp> guess somebody's email address and you can reset their password
[16:47:41] <sbx> all it needs is a confirm page
[16:47:47] <wjp> indeed
[16:48:14] <wjp> it needs to send a "Go to this URL to change your password" email (where the URL is one with an unguessable part)
[16:48:57] <wjp> oh, interesting
[16:49:10] <wjp> "Someone (hopefully you) has requested a new password for your account at $PHORUM[title]. If it was not you, you can ignore this email and continue using your old password.\n\nIf it was you, here is your new login for the forums."
[16:49:14] <wjp> looks like they did fix it
[16:49:34] <sbx> new login?
[16:50:07] <wjp> the users table has a "password" and a "password_temp" field
[16:51:52] <sbx> so it doesn't interfere with your current login?
[16:51:57] <wjp> no, it shouldn't
[16:52:01] <wjp> which is good :-)
[16:52:09] <sbx> crikey
[16:52:10] <sbx> that's great
[16:55:33] <wjp> it supports closed threads as well
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[17:00:14] <wjp> oh bah, it allows users to edit their posts
[17:03:46] <sbx> The current one does too :)
[17:03:59] <wjp> the nuvie one?
[17:04:02] <sbx> yeah
[17:04:06] <wjp> the exult one doesn't
[17:04:15] <wjp> I really dislike that feature
[17:04:20] <wjp> conversations should be linear
[17:04:22] <sbx> you're must be out of date
[17:04:30] <sbx> yours*
[17:04:40] <wjp> yes, didn't want to port my modifications to a newer version
[17:04:43] <sbx> I was just thinking the same thing the other day!
[17:04:49] <sbx> about linear conversations
[17:05:01] <sbx> What's worse is when topics get edited
[17:05:16] <sbx> the title I mean
[17:05:33] <sbx> And the OP posts new information, or keeps changing the first post in a giant thread.
[17:05:41] <wjp> it seems to be possible to disable post editing by setting the time limit to 0.000001 minutes :-)
[17:06:08] <wjp> (it's not technically disabled, but if you can manage to edit the post that fast, I don't think I'd mind)
[17:06:26] <sbx> That's sounds a little mean to me :) Somebody will actually try to beat it.
[17:06:56] <wjp> a fraction of a millisecond is somewhat hard to beat :-)
[17:07:06] <sbx> Turn Card Over
[17:08:06] <sbx> The Exult forum has pretty sensible rules compared to other message boards.
[17:08:44] <wjp> I have a serious allergy to the style that appears to be common with most online forums
[17:09:04] <wjp> all those animated huge avatars, flashing colours, random post editing
[17:09:11] <wjp> *shudder* :-)
[17:09:42] <wjp> oh, and not to forget the huge sig banners under each post
[17:09:58] <sbx> Many of the board systems even have an option for users to disable viewing others' signatures, and the board admins disable that option in the userprofile so that everyone has to see signatures.
[17:10:12] <wjp> with some clearly visible jpg artifacts around any text in those banners, if you're really lucky
[17:10:52] <sbx> I get annoyed by the weird graphics people use more than the text.
[17:11:03] <sbx> I'd like to disable all signatures text and graphics :)
[17:12:10] <sbx> Although, I do like the idea of setting my avatar on one of those message boards to a picture of the Avatar.
[17:12:57] <sbx> "Who is your avatar?" "The Avatar."
[17:13:06] <wjp> :-)
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