#nuvie@irc.freenode.net logs for 5 Sep 2006 (GMT)

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[02:27:55] <Sheng_Gradilla> :)
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[05:23:36] <luteijn> Is there a real need to keep the lua branch separate from the main branch?
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[06:29:07] <SB-X> luteijn: I think so. We can work on ideas for the script engine there, and then change our mind the next day. The method of calling magic scripts should be determined at least, before going in main.
[06:30:33] <SB-X> Since we don't have an official release out, we try to keep CVS stable because that is the only thing users can test.
[06:31:11] <SB-X> I wont complain if Eric wants to move it to main though.
[06:38:36] <luteijn> http://luteijn.xs4all.nl/~luteijn/nuvie/?ss=1 does that look presentable in your non-ie browser?
[06:42:46] <SB-X> yep!
[06:42:57] <SB-X> the descriptions are a bit bland, but otherwise it looks nice :)
[06:43:54] <SB-X> in the future im going to upload some scaled screenshots
[06:44:16] <SB-X> i prefer they be scaled so im not just downloading the same small picture twice (and to show off the scaling)
[06:44:53] <SB-X> that's why there's a "full" directory i assume
[06:45:15] <luteijn> Well, the systems supports that. at the moment the images in full/ are all the same though.
[06:45:56] <SB-X> I wonder if we should autogenerate info for newly updated screenshots (or is that what you're doing already)
[06:46:19] <luteijn> maybe full could also be a screenshot of your whole desktop, and the other a cropped area. (description: a developer hard at work').
[06:46:27] <SB-X> hehe
[06:46:43] <SB-X> screenshots 2 and 3 are the first created after adding Talk support :)
[06:46:52] <SB-X> the first to show off the conversation engine
[06:47:33] <luteijn> at the moment you have to 'register' new screenshots in shots.dat, although it would be easy to have something to generate missing entries the same way I seeded that file..
[06:49:38] <luteijn> I'll write some descriptions for each of the current shots before committing these changes.
[06:50:30] <luteijn> (You can follow what I'm doing as I go along by looking at that test page. If you think of a better description, just shout.)
[06:55:51] <SB-X> test page, I didnt even realize it wasnt on the nuvie site
[06:55:53] <SB-X> ok
[06:56:29] <SB-X> 9 is the first sshot to show portraits
[06:57:01] <SB-X> the basic MD support shown in 10 is probably broken now
[06:57:30] <SB-X> 12 is dungeon name reporting
[06:58:03] <SB-X> the dialog box in 14 was new at the time, and is obviously a little different now
[06:58:26] <SB-X> boats and horses were first available in 15 and 16 respectively
[06:59:01] <SB-X> nuvie savegames in 18, balloon first used for the 19 screenshot
[06:59:06] <SB-X> 19th*
[06:59:30] <SB-X> 21: May fortune favor thee, Pieter.
[06:59:47] <luteijn> ok I'll take all that into the descriptions.
[07:01:42] <SB-X> I don't remember what the others are showing off, if anything.
[07:01:55] <luteijn> I'll just think off a semi-funny remark to put there.
[07:02:04] <luteijn> we can always change them later ;)
[07:04:10] <SB-X> i thought you said "some funky remark" at first
[07:59:09] <luteijn> website updated ;)
[08:19:33] <SB-X> great
[08:20:27] <SB-X> good descriptions
[08:23:14] <servus> luteijn: My Firefox shows all the images on http://luteijn.xs4all.nl/~luteijn/nuvie/?ss=5 unaligned because of how long the description text is. Consider giving a fixed width to the major table containing the four compartments (that is just wide enough for the images), or left-aligning the images?
[08:23:48] <luteijn> I'll try left aligning them first.
[08:23:54] <SB-X> i barely see that
[08:23:57] <SB-X> maybe my font size is smaller
[08:24:34] <SB-X> ah, my browser window size too
[08:24:43] <SB-X> they are unaligned when the window is maximized
[08:25:35] <luteijn> http://luteijn.xs4all.nl/~luteijn/nuvie/?ss=1 (align set to left I think, but doesn't help.
[08:27:54] <luteijn> try that link again? I set the table width style to 320px now; looks a little better to me
[08:30:07] <luteijn> should the whole block of shots be centered like it was, or left aligned?
[08:30:39] <servus> That looks more agreeable, yes.
[08:30:43] <servus> (To me, at least:)
[08:31:05] <luteijn> squeeky wheel gets oil..
[08:31:08] <servus> (I have a huge screen resolution, and my browser window is maximized)
[08:31:19] <servus> The nail that sticks up gets hammered.
[08:31:40] <SB-X> hmm isn't that a japanese idiom
[08:31:47] <SB-X> it's aligned for me now
[08:32:10] <servus> SB-X: Maybe. I heard Adam Carolla say it :)
[08:33:27] <servus> Heh at the "huge female cyclops". IMHO, Ultima Underworld was the series to do "big ol' lummox" conversations in a way I really liked :)
[08:37:20] <SB-X> still need to play that game
[09:08:59] <servus> Amazing how many of the people in these projects (Exult, Exult related, Nuvie) haven't played my favourite game ever! : o)
[09:17:51] <SB-X> servus: How's Pentagram3D progressing?
[09:25:57] <servus> Fabulously nonexistant!
[09:26:35] <SB-X> Got a roadmap for development yet?
[09:32:55] <servus> It involves a hammock
[09:35:47] <SB-X> Are there going to be any hoaxy screenshots soon?
[09:38:13] <luteijn> I played some underworld at a friend's but it was rather buggy, if I remember right.. Can't remember exactly what the bugs were, I think dropped objects related...
[09:39:20] <servus> Hoaxy screenshots? Maybe hoaxy screenshot hoax hoaxes.
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[11:22:49] <SB-X> Hi, Eric.
[11:23:52] <Yuv422> hey SB-X
[11:24:04] <SB-X> how's it going?
[11:24:05] <Yuv422> how goes it?
[11:24:08] <Yuv422> good
[11:24:09] <Yuv422> :)
[11:24:10] <SB-X> hehe
[11:24:15] <SB-X> not bad, thanks
[11:24:23] <SB-X> just working on Event a little
[11:24:28] <Yuv422> cool
[11:24:35] <SB-X> the new function for getting input will be get_target()
[11:24:37] <Yuv422> have you stripped it back yet
[11:24:46] <SB-X> there's also get_direction() which is identical but shows the use cursor
[11:25:08] <Yuv422> and objects register for get_target service?
[11:25:22] <Yuv422> then get a callback when their data is ready?
[11:25:23] <SB-X> nah, im just going to put in sort of an intermediate change to Event for now, I can do an overhaul later
[11:25:31] <SB-X> yeah im copying MsgScroll's request_input
[11:25:38] <SB-X> Event::request_input(this, user_data); Event::get_target(player->get_location(), "Prompt:");
[11:26:18] <SB-X> the first arg to get_target lets you tell it where the cursor will be centered first (for target memory)
[11:26:31] <Yuv422> arg 1 is cursor starting location?
[11:26:38] <SB-X> yes :)
[11:26:42] <Yuv422> cool
[11:27:01] <Yuv422> I really want to get rid of the messy event states
[11:27:14] <Yuv422> MOVE_MODE TALK_MODE etc
[11:27:20] <SB-X> same for get_direction() since while moving objects it will be centered at the object loc
[11:27:31] <SB-X> yes, the hints in TODO show of my plan for Event
[11:27:54] <Yuv422> :)
[11:27:58] <SB-X> after what I'm working on now I can start changing it by replacing the modes with Actions
[11:28:04] <luteijn> ? should use be able to 'remember' a location in the inventory? or would it always start on the map, then when you press tab remember its location in the inventory?
[11:28:05] <SB-X> which will be their own classes
[11:28:29] <SB-X> in U6 it always starts on the map, but people might like it remembering inventory location
[11:28:30] <Yuv422> hi luteijn
[11:28:59] <SB-X> what im working on now will start on the map but we can change it
[11:29:00] <Yuv422> could be usefull for moving objects out of nested containers in the inventory
[11:29:11] <luteijn> I think it does remember inventory location, just not sure if it would start in inventory right away. probably starts on the map..
[11:29:17] <SB-X> Yuv422: well it doesnt clear your current container anyway
[11:29:34] <Yuv422> hehe
[11:29:35] <SB-X> luteijn: hmm, you're right, it does
[11:29:44] <SB-X> by remembering inventory location i meant also starting there :)
[11:30:08] <SB-X> the new method will also capture keyboard input
[11:30:16] <SB-X> so usecode can collect SDL_Keys
[11:30:18] <Yuv422> luteijn: could we have the screenshot description show as a title tag on the main image?
[11:30:34] <luteijn> Yuv422: it does, sort of.
[11:31:06] <Yuv422> I don't get a tooltip when mousing over in safari
[11:31:13] <luteijn> only the function is using 'alt' which works for IE, but should be title.
[11:31:29] <Yuv422> ah k
[11:31:45] <Yuv422> we can happly have both I think
[11:31:56] <luteijn> but that's not my fault but the fault of teh authot of the html-> class thingy that was used and I'm still using.
[11:32:22] * SB-X points to laxdragon.
[11:32:27] <SB-X> or was it Yuv422
[11:32:41] <Yuv422> laxdragon wrote the website scripts originally
[11:33:55] <Yuv422> looking at the screenshots is like a trip down memory lane.
[11:33:58] <Yuv422> :-)
[11:34:04] <Yuv422> Ah the good old days
[11:34:11] <luteijn> I'll see if I can fix it properly. Did we guess right on the descriptions/meanings of the screenshots?
[11:34:38] <SB-X> Yuv422: yeah, we've been working on this way too long :p
[11:35:33] <Yuv422> shot 6 was showing sleeping I think
[11:36:03] <Yuv422> before people stood on their beds. ;-)
[11:36:29] <Yuv422> 3 years is a long time
[11:36:44] <Yuv422> I think we should have a massive version 1 party
[11:36:52] <Yuv422> when the day finally arrives
[11:37:05] <Yuv422> :)
[11:37:30] <Yuv422> with an all night game session where we play the game from start to finish
[11:37:34] <Yuv422> without spam
[11:37:42] <Yuv422> or red moongates
[11:37:45] <SB-X> hehe, im thinking of starting a Versioning page on Nuvieki to discuss what we want to call the first release
[11:37:46] <Yuv422> :-)
[11:38:05] <Yuv422> a roadmap.
[11:38:27] <SB-X> well... i sent you a draft for a roadmap once... :)
[11:38:33] <SB-X> i mean what the actual number would be
[11:39:23] <Yuv422> how about Nuvie 1.0 'Patience'
[11:39:49] <SB-X> i think it should be somewhere between 0.6.0 and 0.9.0
[11:40:06] <Yuv422> ok I get you now
[11:40:11] <SB-X> i was hoping we'd release a few less than complete versions before 1.0.0
[11:40:30] <SB-X> assuming 1.0.0 is some state of completeness
[11:40:34] <Yuv422> teaser releases
[11:40:47] <SB-X> i guess
[11:40:53] <SB-X> we should have released something already imo
[11:41:16] <SB-X> but since we havnt, our first release should be near 1.0.0
[11:41:28] <SB-X> don't forget it was your idea earlier to use the linux-style three digit numbering
[11:41:31] <SB-X> ;)
[11:41:50] <SB-X> and parallel stable and development branches
[11:41:54] <Yuv422> hehe true
[11:43:20] <Yuv422> I just get excited at new functionality. 'lets release after we get x done'
[11:43:22] <Yuv422> ;-)
[11:43:40] <Yuv422> I guess at some point we need to say enough is enough
[11:43:47] <SB-X> and then we decide on something else to add
[11:43:47] <Yuv422> lets push something out
[11:43:52] <SB-X> that's what the roadmap is for :)
[11:43:56] <Yuv422> yes
[11:44:31] <SB-X> if I can find the file with that I'll put it up on the Versioning page
[11:46:41] <luteijn> http://luteijn.xs4all.nl/~luteijn/nuvie/ <-- should be using the title=" .." attribute now. can you check if it works?
[11:47:58] <Yuv422> luteijn: yes that works in safari.
[11:48:00] <Yuv422> :-)
[11:49:43] <Yuv422> do you think we should like to the #nuvie log in the menu bar?
[11:49:53] <Yuv422> maybe under contact
[11:49:58] <luteijn> Anything else that is broken/not looking too nice in safari?
[11:50:20] <Yuv422> nope
[11:50:26] <Yuv422> it all looks good
[11:50:37] <luteijn> Yuv422: you mean a direct link in the sidebar, instead of hiding away in the Contact page?
[11:50:46] <Yuv422> yes
[11:50:56] <Yuv422> or do you think that would be too much exposure
[11:51:30] <Yuv422> did you guys hear about scummvm and paypal!
[11:51:32] <Yuv422> ?
[11:51:43] <SB-X> nope
[11:51:45] <SB-X> ?
[11:52:57] <Yuv422> I hate to quote slashdot
[11:53:01] <Yuv422> but here it is
[11:53:03] <Yuv422> http://games.slashdot.org/games/06/09/04/1227227.shtml
[11:53:32] <Yuv422> this would cover Nuvie too
[11:53:38] <Yuv422> technically
[11:54:38] <wjp> technically it would even cover vmware, or Apple's Rosetta, or modern consoles which emulate older ones :-)
[11:55:24] <luteijn> hmm any computer is a gmae enhancher, isn't it?
[11:56:22] <Yuv422> yes it is a very broad definition
[11:57:36] * Yuv422 wonders how the scumm team split donations
[11:58:08] <wjp> they're mostly used to buy games, I think
[11:58:17] <SB-X> otoh i like slashdot's new(?) design better than the old one
[11:58:35] <SB-X> but I don't really visit slashdot often
[11:59:03] <SB-X> that rule is very silly... i wonder how long it's been in the AUP
[11:59:45] <luteijn> probably after Sony etc. complained about emulators etc.
[12:00:16] <SB-X> isn't emulation illegal in canada?
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[12:13:18] <Yuv422> Is there a proper copyright statement on the original u6?
[12:13:36] <Yuv422> I can only find a warranty on the back of the compendium
[12:13:53] <wjp> isn't it new enough to fall under the implicit copyright laws anyway?
[12:14:53] <Yuv422> don't you need to at least claim copyright?
[12:14:58] <wjp> no
[12:15:15] <Yuv422> oh, I thought you needed at (c)
[12:15:21] <wjp> as long as you don't actively disclaim copyright, it's copyrighted
[12:15:30] <Yuv422> right
[12:15:35] <Yuv422> is that US law
[12:15:39] <luteijn> Although in America it might (have) be(en) different.
[12:16:20] <Yuv422> I was always told, (maybe wrongly) that you needed to show copyright ownership in Australia
[12:16:29] <Yuv422> I could well be wrong on that though
[12:16:30] <wjp> it's standardised by the Berne convention
[12:16:34] <luteijn> In the civilised world we have the 'Berne convention'
[12:16:45] <Yuv422> ah k
[12:17:08] <Yuv422> but america doesn't like to listen to such conventions
[12:17:22] <Yuv422> ;-)
[12:17:44] <luteijn> mickey mouse copyright...
[12:18:15] <Yuv422> well at least on things like human rights.
[12:18:19] <SB-X> http://pcgtw.retro-net.de/index.php?id=games:alegends
[12:20:19] <Yuv422> hmm you can obtain a media replacement from origin should your disks fail outside the 90 warranty period. If you post them a cheque for $5.00USD
[12:20:32] <Yuv422> they will then mail the replacement disks to you
[12:20:49] <SB-X> cool
[12:20:54] <Yuv422> oh you have to return the original disks too
[12:20:59] <Yuv422> which is fair enough.
[12:21:00] <luteijn> http://luteijn.xs4all.nl/~luteijn/nuvie/?page=contact (added IRC Logs link to sidebar
[12:21:57] <Yuv422> pity worlds of ultima 3 wasn't made with the u6 engine
[12:22:06] <Yuv422> then we could have run it in nuvie
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[12:22:28] <SB-X> oh i thought you were so disappointed that you left in disgust
[12:22:29] <SB-X> wb
[12:22:47] <Yuv422> hehe
[12:22:52] <SB-X> i thought i'd heard that arthurian legends was going to be a WoU game
[12:22:57] <Yuv422> just resetting my irc connection
[12:23:02] <SB-X> but that article says it would use the U7 engine
[12:23:57] <luteijn> We could make our own WoU games though... Actually a group of quesitng knights would probably work well with u6 engine..
[12:24:02] <SB-X> with the release of design documents for U6, and SI, it's possible the Arthurian Legends could surface on the web eventually
[12:24:07] <Yuv422> luteijn: link looks good
[12:24:26] <SB-X> Arthurian Legends design documents*
[12:24:42] <Yuv422> Is the nuvieki ready for primetime?
[12:24:48] * Yuv422 hopes
[12:24:54] <SB-X> ?
[12:25:24] <Yuv422> SB-X: I'd like to see a copy of the u6 mapeditor before WoU3 though
[12:25:36] <SB-X> we could make our own
[12:25:54] <Yuv422> WoU3 or mapeditor?
[12:25:57] <SB-X> editor
[12:26:00] <SB-X> mapeditor
[12:26:00] <Yuv422> yes
[12:26:10] <Yuv422> I have some ideas for a mapeditor
[12:26:10] <SB-X> not that we need to, but there's enough information
[12:26:39] <Yuv422> that isn't constrained to the 640k memory saving chunk system
[12:26:43] <SB-X> hhee
[12:26:45] <SB-X> hehe*
[12:26:57] <SB-X> i meant we could recreate origin's mapeditor
[12:26:58] <Yuv422> and a new map patching system for nuvie
[12:27:14] <Yuv422> with the original gui?
[12:27:18] <SB-X> yes
[12:27:25] <Yuv422> retro!
[12:27:31] <Yuv422> I like it
[12:27:39] <SB-X> im not sure i do :)
[12:27:48] <SB-X> i prefer pu6e because you can see lots of map area at once
[12:28:02] <Yuv422> hehe it would be a bit of a waste of time, but it would get respect from me at least
[12:28:07] <SB-X> hehe
[12:28:21] <luteijn> I was already thining we could do the mapeditor with the Ace Article info, but maybe we should help out with existing mapeditors
[12:28:24] <SB-X> fortunately pu6e and u6edit are opensource so we can extend them if necessary
[12:28:52] <Yuv422> I like u6edit but no mac support. :(
[12:29:04] <SB-X> pu6e sort of works on osx
[12:29:04] <Yuv422> and they are tied to the original map system\
[12:29:25] <Yuv422> I think they need to be full map from the ground up
[12:29:30] <Yuv422> with an original importer
[12:29:46] <SB-X> how does the current format limit us?
[12:29:47] <Yuv422> they could then save the map and objdata into nuvie format
[12:30:07] <Yuv422> being chunk based is a big limitation
[12:30:17] <luteijn> yes, I guess compatibility with original doesn't make sense, becuase so much is hardcoded there. But it might be useful when trying to figure out how things work in the original.
[12:30:31] <SB-X> Yuv422: how so?
[12:30:50] <Yuv422> there was a limited amount of chunks available
[12:30:58] <Yuv422> so developers reused them
[12:31:14] <SB-X> we can remove the limit
[12:31:17] <luteijn> check with Kaldosh form u6o, he's doing the u6o-mapeditor. (in visual basic I think).
[12:31:18] <Yuv422> which ment you walked by the same tree/shurb combo over and over
[12:31:21] <SB-X> exultstudio allows adding new chunks
[12:32:07] <Yuv422> SB-X: but when constrain ourselves to a limiting inflexible chunk system in the first place?
[12:32:22] <luteijn> u6o has a flat map. Although I think it's not really in reasource files, but the mapeditor generates c-code that 'patches' the map.
[12:32:23] <Yuv422> you'd only do that to play your maps in the original
[12:32:40] <Yuv422> luteijn: Ouch! Why?
[12:32:41] <SB-X> it seems for efficient than limiting to me
[12:32:42] <luteijn> you could emulate the chunks with akind of 'rubberstamp' function.
[12:33:06] <luteijn> Yuv422: because Kaldosh is limited by Galleon?
[12:33:16] <SB-X> more efficient*
[12:33:20] <Yuv422> SB-X: if you change a chunk all the instances of that chunk change too.
[12:33:28] <SB-X> so don't change a chunk
[12:33:42] <Yuv422> so You'd end up creating numerous chunks
[12:33:51] <Yuv422> /Y/y/
[12:33:54] <SB-X> true
[12:33:54] <SB-X> hehe
[12:33:56] <luteijn> (or use those nasty 'patch' tiles)
[12:34:05] <SB-X> those are only for breaking walls
[12:34:08] <Yuv422> luteijn: yes they are evil
[12:34:16] <Yuv422> and kinda cool at the same time
[12:34:17] <SB-X> how about layering a new format over the chunks?
[12:34:35] <Yuv422> SB-X: That's what I had in mind
[12:34:39] <Yuv422> map patches
[12:35:01] <luteijn> I think we could still have the 'chunks' just call them 'stencils' or something?
[12:35:02] <Yuv422> or complete map replacement if you patch over the entire map
[12:35:32] <SB-X> templates
[12:35:34] <SB-X> ?
[12:35:41] <Yuv422> luteijn: and keep them to speed up map construction
[12:35:52] <Yuv422> SB-X: yes
[12:36:01] <SB-X> if you layer the format though, you can add a template and then modify it
[12:36:04] <luteijn> Yuv422: it would be a kind of compression..
[12:36:07] <SB-X> if you delete your modifications, the template is still there
[12:36:17] <SB-X> or you can save the whole thing as a new chunk
[12:36:38] <Yuv422> hehe you guys really don't want to let go of the chunks do you. ;-)
[12:36:42] <luteijn> saving as a new chunk would be like adding a new word to your codebook.
[12:36:43] <SB-X> but it would be at your choice rather than forcing a duplicate chunk each time
[12:37:12] <luteijn> I don't mind having a flat map, but we'd still need some sort of copy block functionality
[12:37:25] <SB-X> yeah, thats a reason to keep them I hadnt thought of
[12:37:27] <luteijn> might as well make those blocks == chunks
[12:37:55] <Yuv422> I can't see the advantages for chunks in the saved map that the engine uses
[12:38:11] <Yuv422> it loads the whole thing into memory anyway
[12:38:23] <luteijn> well it would save space on disk..
[12:38:31] <Yuv422> luteijn: yeah blockcopy and templates are fine
[12:38:45] <luteijn> but yes for our modern machines there's no need to segment the map like in 1990
[12:38:49] <Yuv422> I just don't see any need for constraining the saed map into a chunk based format
[12:39:02] <Yuv422> luteijn: exactly
[12:39:23] <Yuv422> but premade chunks would help in map construction
[12:39:57] <Yuv422> I'd also like a brush which could draw coast line
[12:40:12] <luteijn> so we'll call the chunks 'templates', and import the first few from the game data as read only templates, and allow you to add more.
[12:40:16] <Yuv422> and a spray can that sprayed random forest
[12:40:45] <Yuv422> oh and new map tiles
[12:40:49] <SB-X> what do you mean by read only templates?
[12:40:54] <Yuv422> different trees etc
[12:41:06] <Yuv422> more variation in the grass/dirt
[12:41:36] <luteijn> sb-x basically prevent you from messing with the 'original' chunks/blocks/templates, but allow you to add more.
[12:41:37] <Yuv422> we would have some space leftover in the tile set
[12:41:37] <SB-X> sounds like warcraft2's map editing
[12:42:03] <SB-X> luteijn: oh... i suppose if you wanted to save over an original template, it could transparently duplicate it
[12:42:18] <Yuv422> luteijn: how about a tilebased clipboard
[12:42:56] <Yuv422> build up an array of tiles then select them and copy & paste them into a clipboard
[12:43:06] <Yuv422> then back onto the map
[12:43:08] <luteijn> we could add extra tiles, beyond the current 2048. E.g. more horses (with different characters on it) etc.
[12:43:23] <Yuv422> :-)
[12:43:48] <SB-X> why do that instead of drawing character tiles on top of the horses like U6O?
[12:43:50] <Yuv422> do we have an enhancement page on nukeki?
[12:44:17] <SB-X> nope
[12:44:20] <luteijn> Yuv422: yes, that would be the way to add blocks/templates/chunks. your clipboard would just be a temporary chunk. Of course we should allow people to select larger areas, irregular areas etc.
[12:44:38] <luteijn> Yuv422: just add one.. it's a wiki :)
[12:44:57] * Yuv422 is scared of breaking luteijn's nice wiki
[12:45:11] <Yuv422> through ignorance
[12:45:12] <luteijn> I can always revert ;)
[12:45:36] <luteijn> see WikiCourse page for some poniters on getting started.
[12:45:50] <Yuv422> ok I'll try adding a page
[12:46:11] <luteijn> I probably already broke more of nuvie through ignorance than you'll break in nuvieki ;)
[12:46:16] <SB-X> if you add a slash in front of the PageName, the page will automatically be a subpage of where you created it
[12:46:22] <SB-X> or maybe of the toplevel page
[12:46:33] <SB-X> i dont remember, maybe its /parent/PageName
[12:47:22] <luteijn> the latter. But pages can be moved later if you do it wrong ;)
[12:47:27] <Yuv422> SB-X: do you remeber the discussions we had about roofing in nuvie?
[12:48:00] <SB-X> when you mentioned enhancements and map editing I thought of that, but i only vaguely remember discussing it before
[12:48:06] <luteijn> vaguely. Those would be 2048+ tiles too I guess (straw, slate, etc.)
[12:48:39] <SB-X> i was just going to hack it into nuvie, loading a png from data for each new tile
[12:49:37] <SB-X> and use textfiles to configure the roof areas
[12:49:51] <SB-X> or base it on the chunk and floor/wall type
[12:50:18] <SB-X> it wasnt part of the map or another level
[12:51:52] <Yuv422> we could just have a roof map level
[12:52:28] <Yuv422> maybe a bitmap
[12:52:31] <SB-X> then someone has to edit the entire map
[12:53:42] <Yuv422> getting nice looking roofs would be hard to do computationally
[12:53:47] <Yuv422> with what we've got
[12:54:30] <SB-X> im not sure... there's a basic style they all follow, if you look at roofs in u7
[12:54:59] <Yuv422> I guess so
[12:55:19] <SB-X> there are probably exceptions for certain buildings
[12:55:27] <Yuv422> maybe we could generate the roof map that way then
[12:55:38] <Yuv422> which would save time at runtime
[12:55:40] <SB-X> so you'd want to configure those somewhere for autogeneration
[12:55:46] <SB-X> yeah
[12:56:05] <SB-X> then you could go back and edit the map manually to get rid of some roofs
[12:56:07] <Yuv422> then build custom roof support into the mapeditor
[12:56:08] <SB-X> or edit them
[12:56:14] <Yuv422> hehe
[12:56:45] <Yuv422> do you think Enhancements is big enough to go at root level?
[12:56:47] <SB-X> what are those arrow slits on top of walls called?
[12:56:56] <Yuv422> or should it go in underdiscussion?
[12:57:07] <Yuv422> crelations
[12:57:15] <Yuv422> creselations?
[12:57:17] <SB-X> i think a lot in technicaldocuments should go in underdiscussion :)
[12:57:20] <SB-X> crenellations
[12:57:24] <SB-X> thanks
[12:57:35] <Yuv422> np
[12:57:48] <SB-X> i drew crenellations for the Trinsic walls and they would be considered roofs too
[12:58:05] <SB-X> it would be tempting for the player to go climb on the wall, but it's not a real level so they cant :)
[12:59:25] <Yuv422> I'll attempt to make two new pages in underdiscussion
[12:59:39] <Yuv422> mapeditor and engine enhancements
[13:01:54] <SB-X> are engine enhancements equivalent to wishlist features?
[13:02:24] <luteijn> they'd be a specific type of wish?
[13:02:41] <luteijn> although probably most wishes would be engine enhancements
[13:02:45] <SB-X> i thought each enhancement would :)
[13:03:14] <Yuv422> Am I duplicating pages?
[13:03:49] <SB-X> no, but take a look at the wishlist in TODO for things I'd like to see in Nuvie... maybe you want those in Engine Enhancements
[13:04:31] <Yuv422> righto
[13:10:57] <luteijn> maybe UnderDiscussion should be a 'Category' to tag pages with?
[13:13:51] <SB-X> would that change the appearance of the pages?
[13:14:08] <SB-X> i noticed there is a page template named Category
[13:14:43] <luteijn> only a little (there'd be a ----\nCategoryUnderDiscussion at the bottom. And they'd be grouped automatically on the CategoryUnderDiscussion page.
[13:15:29] <SB-X> ah
[13:15:30] <luteijn> see "CategoryCategory" (or CategoryTechnicalDocumentation)
[13:15:38] <SB-X> i dont have a preference
[13:15:44] <SB-X> but that sounds convenient
[13:17:03] <SB-X> what about moving TechnicalDocuments to a subpage called Developers or Contributors
[13:17:38] <luteijn> Well the whole thing is basically a development wiki.. maybe we should have a 'public' section instead?
[13:17:55] <SB-X> well the other subpage would be Users
[13:18:03] <SB-X> another subpage*
[13:18:15] <SB-X> if you had a Developers one
[13:18:27] <SB-X> I guess you dont really need a Developers subpage
[13:18:38] <SB-X> but the FAQ and Manual could go under Users
[13:18:57] <SB-X> this of course doesnt necessarily determine how the page list on the front page will appear
[13:19:59] <luteijn> subpages aren't in sub directories on the filesystem anyway, just called Parent/child/subchild ...
[13:20:40] <luteijn> I need to go for now, feel free to bugger up the wiki, I made a small backup of it just in case ;)
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[13:31:53] <Yuv422> I don't think I added it correctly
[13:32:04] <Yuv422> it's in the orphaned page section
[13:32:47] <Yuv422> SB-X: did the snes u6 have more walk frames per actor type?
[13:32:57] <Yuv422> to allow smooth motion
[13:48:51] <SB-X> Yuv422: nope
[13:49:08] <SB-X> they kind of looked like they were sliding but it looked ok
[13:50:18] <SB-X> There's two ways to do it (besides drawing more frames). You can animate them as in SNES U6 and use one step per tile, or you can increment the frame multiple times per step/tile.
[13:51:18] <SB-X> if you go with the second method, you could even allow for per-pixel movement (like the tile movement in u7, although you'd still always be located at some square)
[13:51:41] <SB-X> orphaned pages just dont have any links to them
[13:51:54] <SB-X> once you link to your new page from another page, it will disappear from that list
[13:53:37] <Yuv422> ah k
[13:53:41] <Yuv422> time for bed
[13:53:42] <Yuv422> cya
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[13:54:24] <SB-X> cya
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