#nuvie@irc.freenode.net logs for 8 Jan 2014 (GMT)

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[02:03:28] --> Malignant_Manor has joined #nuvie
[02:04:10] <Malignant_Manor> Newest patch is http://pastebin.com/EvV1QJj5
[02:04:42] <Malignant_Manor> I made the new settings game_styles like Eric suggested.
[02:05:29] <Malignant_Manor> The option to set gamestyle is video/gamestyle
[02:06:40] <Malignant_Manor> options are original, new. resolution_independent_full_map, and resolution_independent_cutoff_map
[02:07:01] <Malignant_Manor> new is a renamed fullscreen_map
[02:07:40] <Malignant_Manor> I fixed all the window centering problems I could think of in resolution_independent_full_map
[02:08:22] <Malignant_Manor> I still have problems with the background in both resolution_independent settings.
[02:09:04] <Malignant_Manor> I didn't change the game menu setting to reflect the changes.
[02:10:16] <Malignant_Manor> resolution_independent_cutoff_map has a few pixel widths of corruption on the when displaying roofs
[02:12:52] <Malignant_Manor> The corruption is the roof being drawn past the map window and on the border, view, and msgscroll area.
[02:13:23] <Malignant_Manor> Eric, if you read the logs, can you please try and fix the background and roof display issues?
[02:14:14] <Malignant_Manor> Oh, I haven't started MD or SE support for the new modes.
[02:15:24] <Malignant_Manor> It should be as simple as adding the correct border_width and border in Background.cpp
[02:17:29] <Malignant_Manor> Oh, the command bar would be another issue.
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[14:49:57] <Malignant_Manor> Dominus: what about original+ cutoff map and original+ full map for names of the new modes
[14:53:50] <Malignant_Manor> or original+ and original+ full map
[14:54:04] <Malignant_Manor> probably the second one
[14:55:06] <Malignant_Manor> but I would like to keep the cutoff name in the code
[14:56:38] <Malignant_Manor> Maybe keep the is_resolution_independent() function or name it to is_original+()
[15:33:16] <Dominus> Malignant_Manor: original+ sounds good
[15:33:32] <TheCycoONE> I'm not a fan of + in the name, but I don't have much to offer
[15:33:33] <Dominus> indicates some enhancements
[15:34:27] <Malignant_Manor> I think dominus recommended it before
[15:34:32] <TheCycoONE> too much bike sheding anyway, it's probably not a big deal what it's called
[15:34:37] <Dominus> I don't favor the cutoff - wouldn't ring a bell for me
[15:34:43] <TheCycoONE> as long as it's documented
[15:35:01] <Malignant_Manor> That's just for the code. It will be original+
[15:35:02] <TheCycoONE> mode 1, 2, 3 ;)
[15:35:25] <TheCycoONE> ah
[15:35:46] <Malignant_Manor> The cutoff part, that is
[15:36:27] <Malignant_Manor> Original+ styles are a hack on the original style
[15:52:27] <Malignant_Manor> I forgot that + inside of stuff is a no no in c++ so I had to rename to plus in code.
[17:24:53] <Malignant_Manor> Here's a new patch with the name changes, video options gump update, and ultima6/orig_plus_cb_text_color cfg setting. http://pastebin.com/UKjXgxTK
[18:13:44] <Malignant_Manor> Here's a Nuvie update post with a link to the Binary. http://www.rpgcodex.net/forums/index.php?threads/nuvie-progress-ultima-6-in-full-screen.70226/page-2#post-3044854
[18:14:25] <Malignant_Manor> It has side by side thumbnails of the different modes in 320x200 and 640x400
[18:21:31] <TheCycoONE> original+ full map looks nice. how is it gamewise - end up seeing anything you shouldn't?
[18:22:20] <Malignant_Manor> Ultima 6 and Nuvie black out areas that are blocked off
[18:22:31] <Malignant_Manor> You do see much farther though.
[18:22:51] <Malignant_Manor> If too high, you could see monsters spawn/despawn
[18:23:29] <Malignant_Manor> I'm not sure how big that would need to be but we have limited actors so can't really expand it.
[18:27:28] <Malignant_Manor> The new (fullscreen_map) style does expand it but I should try a map size based spawn distance instead of the fixed one.
[18:28:15] <Malignant_Manor> I still seem to not have centering right for blocking out areas in original+ full map. It's hard to test properly.
[18:29:18] <Malignant_Manor> I think my fix to slow fade in for high resolutions was only done for fullscreen_map so I need to use it for the new modes.
[18:39:41] <Malignant_Manor> Fix was done on map size and not fullscreen_map specific but this comp is crap so I don't know if that is the issue.
[18:40:06] <Malignant_Manor> My position for blacking is way off.
[19:04:26] <Malignant_Manor> I've fixed the blacking issue. I'll look into the spawning distance.
[19:17:21] <Malignant_Manor> fullscreen_map still spawning/despawning popup. I have this commit message but am unsure of why it needs to spawn eggs closer than 9 tiles away. Add check so eggs closer than 9 tiles away don't spawn unless teleporting or the game is full screen map style
[19:17:59] <Malignant_Manor> I'm unsure if I need to have original+ mode do that too. I would think so if their resolution is bigger than normal.
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[19:37:59] <Malignant_Manor> Latest patch with the blacking fix and spawn change. http://pastebin.com/kLcaDNai
[19:38:27] <Malignant_Manor> Yuv422: Can you please look into the background and roof display issues?
[19:39:07] <Yuv422> hi Malignant_Manor
[19:39:33] <Malignant_Manor> hello
[19:41:03] <Malignant_Manor> Oh, if you didn't read the log, there are some name changes.
[19:41:16] <Yuv422> how do I exhibit the blitting issue?
[19:41:27] <Yuv422> yeah I just read that. :)
[19:41:30] <Yuv422> sounds good to me
[19:41:56] <Malignant_Manor> For the background, it always will.
[19:42:32] <Malignant_Manor> But the right part will show when 320x (and some of it will show when other resolutions)
[19:42:42] <Yuv422> righto
[19:42:50] <Malignant_Manor> It never shows in full_map because the map is rendered over it
[19:43:30] <Malignant_Manor> The roof display corruption in original+ happens whenever a roof is near the UI.
[19:46:49] <Malignant_Manor> I think we should have an option to display the new dolls in styles that are not new_style.
[19:48:37] <Yuv422> should we have config sections for each style?
[19:48:58] <Malignant_Manor> Nah
[19:49:38] <Malignant_Manor> I don't know if it should be general, video, or game specific for the dolls.
[19:50:12] <Malignant_Manor> Soon we will hopefully have new tiles for actors as well.
[19:50:28] <Malignant_Manor> I don't know if they should be separate settings or not.
[19:53:54] <Yuv422> should game style config be in the video section?
[19:54:02] <Yuv422> It's more than just video
[19:54:35] <Malignant_Manor> Either that or general
[19:55:28] <Malignant_Manor> I want it in the video menu though
[19:55:36] <Malignant_Manor> so keeping both the same seems logical
[19:58:27] <Yuv422> should I have a black border between the map and the scroll in original+ style?
[19:58:33] <Yuv422> at standard res
[20:00:05] <Malignant_Manor> That is where the left border should go
[20:00:37] <Malignant_Manor> The black area is the gap between the map and view where it should be
[20:00:54] <Yuv422> right
[20:01:11] <Malignant_Manor> Mockups are here http://www.rpgcodex.net/forums/index.php?threads/nuvie-progress-ultima-6-in-full-screen.70226/page-2#post-3044854
[20:01:26] <Malignant_Manor> So you know how it should look.
[20:02:48] <Yuv422> cool
[20:26:23] <Yuv422> Background is probably being overwritten by MapWindow
[20:27:11] <Malignant_Manor> yeah, that I know for the one full map
[20:27:22] <Malignant_Manor> The left part in original+ is all the way on the left and overwritten by the map too.
[20:29:30] <Yuv422> I'd say that mapwindow is blanking too far to the right in orig+ mode
[20:29:34] <Yuv422> at a guess
[20:31:43] <Malignant_Manor> Is there a way to scale only the command bar buttons? Someone suggested that.
[20:32:09] <Yuv422> hmm
[20:32:14] <Yuv422> that might be tricky
[20:36:55] <Malignant_Manor> In background, put 1 || in front of both is_original_plus() functions and you can see it in original mode 320x200.
[20:42:51] <Yuv422> yeah I tried moving the background widget after the mapwindow and got the same result
[20:43:22] <Malignant_Manor> It just plain renders in the wrong spot.
[20:47:45] <Yuv422> I'm not sure blit operates the way you think it does
[20:48:00] <Yuv422> you might want to try using a pointer to the start pixel of the src
[20:48:16] <Malignant_Manor> Well, that is what you are for.
[20:48:22] <Yuv422> hehe
[20:48:27] <Malignant_Manor> You know better about these things.
[20:48:31] <Yuv422> yeah I've got to go now
[20:48:48] <Malignant_Manor> You know how it should work so you should be able to get it done.
[20:48:48] <Yuv422> I'll play around with it after work today
[20:49:27] <Malignant_Manor> It's much better than my horrible earlier attempt a long time ago.
[20:49:52] <Yuv422> leave it with me :)
[20:49:57] <Yuv422> gotta go now though
[20:49:58] <Yuv422> cya
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[20:59:06] <Malignant_Manor> If you read the logs, maybe you can make an image out each SDL_Rect and then blit them.
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[21:58:10] <HiPhish> Hi, this is my first time using IRC and I hope someone reads this in the logs. I wanted to add my opinion to the dolls and the new mad-mode.
[22:00:37] <HiPhish> About including the dolls, I made my point in the forums, but I don't know how frequently it is read by the devs. Basically my idea is to not include them as part of Nuvie, but leave it as a mod. The mod would be distributed as one ZIP file and the user just drops the file into a folder from where the game loads the extra assets.
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[22:02:07] <HiPhish> For example, on OS X the folder would be either "/Library/Application Support/Nuvie Support/u6mods" (for all users) or "~/Library/Application Support/Nuvie Support/u6mods" (single user).
[22:04:10] <HiPhish> Some time ago I came across a talk from Ryan C. Gordon, where he talked about open source in game development and one of the tools that came up was PhysicsFS, a library for virtual filesystems, which does exactly that:
[22:04:14] <HiPhish> https://icculus.org/physfs/
[22:04:20] <HiPhish> Here is the talk:
[22:04:25] <HiPhish> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=r3wDnOAjrtk
[22:05:54] <HiPhish> This would make future modding much easier and it wouldn't require you to clutter the options menu with options that are just graphics replacers.
[22:09:50] <HiPhish> Now about the new map… I would call the modes classic, borderless and full map. Original is obvious, and borderless because it is basically original just without the useless border.
[22:13:26] <HiPhish> The real question to me is why we would need the "full map" (i.e. original+ full map as you call it) and the "new" mode (the fullscreen mp we had previously)? Why not treat the command bar and the yellow thing with the log and party sprites the way you treat gumps in "new mode"?
[22:16:35] <HiPhish> Gumps already work in the current classic mode, I can double click containers and their contents display in a nice gump instead of bursting all in my face and landing onto a large stack. The advantage of the "new" mode has been that it shows more of the map and replaces the large clunky interface with elegant gumps.
[22:17:31] <HiPhish> The modes you are working on already solve the first problem, the size of the map. So why not merge the second advantage into them as well?
[22:21:47] <HiPhish> Of course these classic style gumps should not pause the game while they are active, so there would need to be a sort of toggle. How about right-clicking the celestial banner? If the player right-clicks it, it diesappears and the classic style gumps appear. If the player right-clicks that it disappears and the celestial banner returns. You will never need both of them at the same time anyway.
[22:22:48] <HiPhish> Well, that's at least my opinion from a user perspective. i hope I was able to articulate what i was thinking in an understandable way.
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[23:18:29] <Malignant_Manor> HiPhish, >> Why not treat the command bar and the yellow thing with the log and party sprites the way you treat gumps in "new mode"?
[23:19:10] <Malignant_Manor> The problem is how much code changes and/or maintenance problems that would cause.
[23:20:33] <Malignant_Manor> The new style still really sucks with keyboard controls.
[23:21:00] <Dominus> I was thinking something similar and wondered what would cause less maintenance problems...
[23:23:07] <Malignant_Manor> We would have to somehow convert the views to gumps to relieve all the maintenance issues. The new style is already horrible on maintenance.
[23:23:21] <Malignant_Manor> So both could use the same thing.
[23:23:30] * Dominus nods
[23:24:49] <Dominus> this should all be less maintenance requiring...
[23:25:01] <Malignant_Manor> The new modes are relatively simple hacks (except for the centering changes being a pain) that can reuse all the old code.
[23:31:11] <Malignant_Manor> I'm not very good at coding and doing all that isn't reasonably possible for me at the moment.
[23:31:39] * Dominus understands
[23:31:44] <Malignant_Manor> Eric needs to focus his time on MD and SE.
[23:32:04] <Malignant_Manor> Also bug fixes I can't really do.
[23:32:36] <Malignant_Manor> Quick and relatively clean beats never being done at all.
[23:32:46] <Malignant_Manor> (busy cooking)
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[23:42:26] <HiPhish> Yeah, you know what is possible and how much effort it is, I was just giving my thought from a user perspective. Personally though I find the way it is now to be the best, you have either the original mode for people who are nostalgic for crammed UIs and you have the new Ultima VII like interface with the gumps that shows only the information you really need. If that mode allowed for higher resolutions it would be perf
[23:42:51] <Dominus> hi HiPhish
[23:43:01] <HiPhish> What about my suggestion for the dolls?
[23:43:05] <HiPhish> Hi Dominus
[23:44:00] <Dominus> I think the integration of the doll is something for Eric/yuv422
[23:44:47] <Dominus> He didn't seem to keen on making a big effort to enable modding like this, if I read his comment correctly theother day
[23:46:02] <Dominus> but it would probably be a good idea to think about it, because once you start adding stuff like your dolls, other people will probably want to add or change stuff and having a good backend already in place would then pay off
[23:46:14] <HiPhish> BTW, Dominus, aren't you the guy who wrote the documentation for Exult? It is one of the best documentations I have seen, it's very thorough without bogging down the reader with superfluous information. Every time I wasn't unsure about something a quick look at the documentation anwered it. This is so much better than having to scratch the web hoping someone somewhere had the ame question as i did.
[23:46:39] <Dominus> OTOH I'd rather have a working MD or SE :) and just put the dolls with nuvie and then have an option to enable the nicer dolls
[23:47:01] <Dominus> HiPhish: thanks a lot
[23:47:40] <Dominus> it grew over years :)
[23:48:30] <HiPhish> Yeah, it's up to the devs how they implement my dolls, I just want to see awful generic graphics gone. it just wanted to bring the topic up, better decide now than regret later that you didn't know of some tool.
[23:50:47] <HiPhish> In his talk Ryan said that the devs of Dungeons of Dredmor literally decided at the last minute before shipping to have mod support, and with PhysicsFS they did it in an evening. I tried modding Dungeons of Dredmor, it was just dropping a ZIP file into a folder.
[23:51:29] <HiPhish> So it's at least something worth considering. If they still want to ship Nuvie with my dolls hardcoded I don't care.
[23:51:52] <Dominus> just for your information, Eric/Yuv422 and Malignant_Manor are the main devs atm, with Eric doing the heavy lifting and Malignant_Manor fixing and adding little useful stuff all over the program
[23:54:05] <HiPhish> Which is what makes this project really impressive. Sadly I am in no shape to help with coding, the best I can do is point out if I happen to come across something I think might be useful or add my opinion from a user-perspective. I even filed three bugs :D
[23:55:13] <Malignant_Manor> I told Eric I wanted an option to use the dolls in the all modes.
[23:57:55] <HiPhish> Personally I would like to just play the whole game in the new Ultima VII style mode if it worked :P
[23:58:42] <Dominus> HiPhish: making those dolls is already quite a help IMO
[23:58:58] <Dominus> and submitting bug reports is always a big help
[23:58:58] <HiPhish> Nut yeah, I'd like dolls in classic mode as well, because that's currently the only one playable. But mostly i want the improved sprites, the dolls were just a step I had to take first, a byproduct if you will.