#pentagram@irc.freenode.net logs for 10 May 2007 (GMT)

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[18:37:05] <TiGSTeR> greetings
[18:37:43] <watt> howdy
[18:38:05] <TiGSTeR> I'm very impressed with Pentagram
[18:38:15] <TiGSTeR> just 2 complaints
[18:38:25] <TiGSTeR> 1. No battle music
[18:38:40] <TiGSTeR> 2. During combat, the double click speed is WAY to slow
[18:39:16] <TiGSTeR> infact - double click speed is way too slow with everything
[18:43:03] <watt> Compiling from source or using binary?
[18:43:34] <TiGSTeR> binary
[18:43:44] <TiGSTeR> windows
[18:44:03] <watt> hmm... ok, can't offer a workaround for double click speed just yet then.
[18:44:56] <watt> I'll note that as something to look at sooner rather than later.
[18:45:02] <TiGSTeR> a pity (as Mythran would say) :)
[18:45:49] <TiGSTeR> the sooner the better cause double click speed is one of the most important aspects of the game
[18:45:58] <TiGSTeR> it is used constantly
[18:45:59] <watt> Not sure when battle music will be added.
[18:46:05] <TiGSTeR> hmm
[18:46:10] <TiGSTeR> just out of curiosity
[18:46:18] <TiGSTeR> how hard can adding battle music be?
[18:48:42] <watt> To be honest, I don't think it would be that hard. The annoying parts would probably be making sure that when it stops that we go back to the old music
[18:50:36] <TiGSTeR> I've done some coding myself - but that was in high school with Turbo Pascal lol - then I did a bit of C++ which is very similar to Pascal, just different commands - but the different commands are very similar to Pascal - that was 7 years ago - havn't coded since hehe
[18:53:20] <TiGSTeR> the battle music adds a whole new dimension to the game
[18:53:36] <TiGSTeR> so if you can, fix it soon :)
[19:03:08] <TiGSTeR> I'm sure you'll agree that the battle music is very important
[20:18:07] <TiGSTeR> surely you can just say something like: if C is pressed, start combat music
[20:18:19] <TiGSTeR> if C is pressed again, stop combat music
[20:18:32] <TiGSTeR> toggle on and off
[20:19:25] <TiGSTeR> if command = C play combat music
[20:22:25] <wjp> well, it's a bit trickier, but that's the basic idea
[20:22:51] <TiGSTeR> if command = C and combatmusic = on then putmainmusicback
[20:23:19] <wjp> we need to keep track of what happens to the regular music tracks in the background (but don't play it)
[20:23:43] <wjp> but it's not too hard to do
[20:23:50] <wjp> maybe I should just go code it :-)
[20:24:14] <wjp> hm, the victory music condition is probably when the last enemy disappears on becomes non-hostile
[20:24:18] <watt> which track on which map, where it was, and what happens on map change ... yeah
[20:24:59] <wjp> and I think there are multiple combat music tracks?
[20:25:20] <TiGSTeR> nope - only one combat music track and no victory music
[20:25:39] <TiGSTeR> oh wait
[20:25:44] <TiGSTeR> ok 2 comabt
[20:25:44] <TiGSTeR> combat
[20:25:51] <TiGSTeR> one when ur still
[20:26:00] <TiGSTeR> and one when you run in combat mide
[20:26:01] <TiGSTeR> mode
[20:26:19] <wjp> and one victory fanfare, and one for when you die
[20:26:30] <TiGSTeR> ah yes
[20:26:32] <TiGSTeR> the one when u die
[20:26:35] <TiGSTeR> loved that one
[20:26:36] <TiGSTeR> :)
[20:27:07] <TiGSTeR> you would really go code it now???
[20:27:12] <watt> no idea here. I would just MusicProcess::playMusic <tracknum> until I knew I got them all. I think our docs might actually be complete for this though
[20:28:32] <TiGSTeR> when you code it, a lot of ultima 8 fans would shed a tear :)
[20:28:38] <wjp> ah, when testing music, don't have midi disabled :-)
[20:29:01] <TiGSTeR> heh - for me sound and music worked perfectly
[20:29:09] <TiGSTeR> midi music
[20:29:46] <TiGSTeR> ya know - I still remeber playing Pagan on my 486 dx2 66 :)
[20:30:58] <TiGSTeR> I remember the days of BBSs - the days where a 28.8 bps modem was everyones dream :)
[20:31:11] <TiGSTeR> I had a 540 meg hdd
[20:31:21] <TiGSTeR> and my ultimate dream was to get a 1gig :)
[20:32:37] <TiGSTeR> even further back - I had an Apple 2E
[20:32:49] <TiGSTeR> the OS for the Apple 2E was basic lol
[20:33:02] <TiGSTeR> as in basic the programming language
[20:35:08] <TiGSTeR> do you remember those days?
[20:36:19] <wjp> I started at a 30Mb harddisk :-)
[20:37:27] <watt> 500Mb disk - 486 - 16Mb ram here.
[20:38:15] <TiGSTeR> hehe
[20:38:24] <TiGSTeR> I beat you! :P
[20:38:34] <TiGSTeR> my first PC hdd was 10 mb :))
[20:38:43] <wjp> combat music: 98, running: 110, death: 44, victory: 109
[20:39:08] <TiGSTeR> hmmm - what does that mean?
[20:39:13] <wjp> note to self :-)
[20:39:14] <TiGSTeR> hmm
[20:39:25] <watt> Hmmm... combat & running combat different - didn't know that.
[20:39:40] <watt> transitions are going to be fun then.
[20:40:50] <wjp> MusicProcess takes care of transitions between tracks
[20:41:25] <wjp> what to do when changing tracks is all specified in the first object in music.flx
[20:42:21] <watt> yup.... looks like it. Does that mean we have enough information to fill out the rest of musicflx.txt in the docs?
[20:43:17] <wjp> possibly; Colourless is the person to ask
[20:43:45] <wjp> victory music is annoying to do
[20:44:54] <wjp> switching back from victory music isn't possible yet with the current MusicProcess, I think
[20:45:08] <wjp> we need to be able to specify 'when this track finishes, start track x'
[20:50:02] <TiGSTeR> hmm
[20:50:32] <TiGSTeR> to be completely honest - I don't remember any vistory music - hmm - oh well - it was a LONG time ago
[20:51:13] <TiGSTeR> I was 13 lol
[20:51:18] <TiGSTeR> now I'm 25
[20:51:34] <TiGSTeR> oh btw
[20:51:49] <TiGSTeR> I was the one to expose the Mythran bug
[20:51:50] <TiGSTeR> :)
[20:51:56] <TiGSTeR> not sure if u knew
[20:52:12] <TiGSTeR> if you attacked Mythran, the game would crash...
[20:52:17] <TiGSTeR> all fixed now
[20:52:59] <TiGSTeR> so does this whole combat music thing...is it going to be very hard?
[20:53:04] <TiGSTeR> to code
[20:53:08] <TiGSTeR> or whatever
[20:53:26] <wjp> just the victory music bit
[20:53:50] <TiGSTeR> oh well...that's definitely not the end of the world - normal combat music is the most important
[20:55:15] <TiGSTeR> imagine actually coding Ultima 8 - the whole game
[20:55:22] <TiGSTeR> madness
[20:56:23] <TiGSTeR> what I didn't like about Pagan is how few people there were to talk to
[20:56:46] <TiGSTeR> in Ultima 7 - Black Gate - there were hundreds of people to talk to
[21:00:05] <watt> Wow.. I don't think I remember that victory fanfare at all.
[21:00:22] <watt> and it's quite annoying in a loop
[21:01:25] <TiGSTeR> when I first played Pagan, it was a screw up - I never found Mythran - I didn't find the ancient necromancers - I went strait to Lithos and then I couldn't teleport back..so I ended up going all the way back - the long way lol :)
[21:02:26] <TiGSTeR> not everyone knows - secret of coding - it's all one big loop
[21:02:39] <watt> combat music sounds really good on my current computer.
[21:02:49] <TiGSTeR> excellent!!!! :))
[21:02:56] <TiGSTeR> so u fixed it???/
[21:03:17] <watt> uh. no just MusicProcess:playMusic 98
[21:03:23] <watt> on the console
[21:03:37] <TiGSTeR> ohhh
[21:03:55] <TiGSTeR> so u just found where it was and are playing it...but not in the actual game?
[21:04:52] <watt> in game.... just hit ~ and type MusicProcess::playMusic 98
[21:05:32] <TiGSTeR> oh hectic i'm gonna tru
[21:05:34] <TiGSTeR> try
[21:05:48] <wjp> the 98 is one of the numbers I gave earlier
[21:06:03] <wjp> you can also use the others for the other combat tunes
[21:07:16] <TiGSTeR> hmmm
[21:07:18] <TiGSTeR> others??
[21:07:23] <TiGSTeR> how do I know which are the others?
[21:07:40] <TiGSTeR> damn I just realised I'm not on my own PC lol
[21:07:44] <TiGSTeR> Pagan isn't here
[21:07:48] <TiGSTeR> gotta wait till I get home
[21:07:51] <TiGSTeR> :(
[21:08:21] <TiGSTeR> btw - what's that site where u can u/l files and then d/l from another PC
[21:08:25] <TiGSTeR> I cant remember
[21:08:28] <TiGSTeR> something like HDMD
[21:08:36] <TiGSTeR> HMHD
[21:08:37] <TiGSTeR> ?
[21:08:56] <watt> no idea here.
[21:09:12] <TiGSTeR> oh well
[21:09:13] <TiGSTeR> jees
[21:09:16] <TiGSTeR> u must find it
[21:09:19] <TiGSTeR> its amazing
[21:09:34] <TiGSTeR> i can u/l up to like a gig of data and then d/l from another PC
[21:09:54] <TiGSTeR> it just gives u a passcode or whatever
[21:09:59] <TiGSTeR> hmm
[21:10:04] <TiGSTeR> im gonna try find it now
[21:11:45] <wjp> I don't trust my data to other sites :-)
[21:13:14] <TiGSTeR> hehe
[21:13:35] <TiGSTeR> but its just a few mp3s and a text document
[21:13:48] <TiGSTeR> and millions use it
[21:15:15] <TiGSTeR> but hey
[21:15:42] <TiGSTeR> no offence of course
[21:17:07] <TiGSTeR> are u afraid of viruses>
[21:17:07] <TiGSTeR> ?
[21:17:13] <TiGSTeR> is that why?
[21:18:06] <wjp> well, not necessarily viruses, but a) they can copy/read/distribute it b) they can change it
[21:18:15] <wjp> neither is very desirable
[21:18:23] <TiGSTeR> oh I see
[21:18:53] <TiGSTeR> what did you think of Ultima 9?
[21:18:55] <watt> nothing quite like putting confidential files on a server you don't own :-0
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[21:19:22] <TiGSTeR> my sister finished U9 and she said it was way to easy
[21:19:37] <TiGSTeR> what did you think>
[21:19:37] <TiGSTeR> ?
[21:20:09] * wjp ponders where to put this combat music code
[21:20:23] <TiGSTeR> me personally - I didn't like the combat music - and this turned me off big time
[21:20:30] <wjp> I don't want to add it to MusicProcess... maybe GUIApp
[21:22:26] <TiGSTeR> you know I heard rumors that Pagan is actually real in some other dimension
[21:23:20] <watt> hmmm MainActor? CombatProcess?
[21:24:09] <TiGSTeR> very commendable coding it yourself
[21:24:17] <wjp> all playMusic calls would have to be re-routed through it
[21:24:41] <watt> though guiapp?
[21:24:45] <TiGSTeR> you know, I once coded a program that could convert any base to any base
[21:24:58] <TiGSTeR> like binary to hexadecimal
[21:25:12] <TiGSTeR> base 4 to base 11
[21:27:57] <wjp> watt: through this 'new' music interface
[21:28:15] <wjp> watt: all normal playmusic calls should be deferred when in combat mode
[21:31:34] <TiGSTeR> makes perfect sense
[21:31:57] <TiGSTeR> I love the music as you sheeth your weapon
[21:32:08] <TiGSTeR> I love the music when you sheeth your weapon
[21:32:36] <TiGSTeR> very satisfying tune celebrating the end of combat
[21:32:39] <watt> Thought all that would be in MusicProcess itself..... maybe not....
[21:32:53] <TiGSTeR> oh hi watt u been here all along
[21:32:59] <TiGSTeR> well met
[21:33:18] <watt> ?
[21:33:32] * watt is just plain confused not
[21:33:46] <TiGSTeR> ??
[21:33:59] <TiGSTeR> just saying hi
[21:34:17] <watt> are you confusing me with wjp?
[21:34:49] <TiGSTeR> not a chance - I merely noticed you started talking
[21:34:52] * wjp is the one who jumped into the middle of the conversation :-)
[21:35:11] <TiGSTeR> :))
[21:35:37] <TiGSTeR> if only you could also fix the double clicking *sigh*
[21:36:20] <watt> I'll look into that part tonight. It should be easy to have as a setting in the config file methinks.
[21:36:33] <wjp> double clicking is tricky... if you increase the time, the movement controls become much less responsive
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[21:37:40] <TiGSTeR> excellent - cause the double clicking speed is far to slow - in battle..you have to double click...then wait till the weapon goes back...then double click again...as apposed to just double clicking constantly and your weapon keeps hitting again and again without delay
[21:38:01] <watt> oh... that.... um.. that's different
[21:38:14] <TiGSTeR> not to mention anything else that needs double clicking
[21:38:18] <wjp> that's lack of dexterity
[21:38:30] <wjp> if you have dex 15, your attack speed is far lower than with dex 25
[21:38:42] <TiGSTeR> not a chance - play u8 through DOS box and ull see
[21:38:51] <TiGSTeR> its not like that
[21:38:58] <wjp> please don't use 'u' for you... it's starting to get annoying :-)
[21:39:00] <watt> Also, I think you actually are asking for event queueing of sorts.
[21:39:23] <TiGSTeR> I apolgise to u :)
[21:39:35] <TiGSTeR> hehe
[21:39:38] <TiGSTeR> hmm
[21:40:10] <TiGSTeR> just play U8 through DOSbox - you'll see that you can just keep double clicking and you hit again and again without delay
[21:40:20] <TiGSTeR> check it out - you will see
[21:40:30] <wjp> let's see
[21:40:45] <watt> Oh balls. Why did Microsoft have to buy sysinternals and change the stinking EULA?
[21:41:16] <TiGSTeR> hehe
[21:41:18] <watt> I really needed pskill to be bundled in my installer here.
[21:41:22] <TiGSTeR> howz life for a laugh
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[21:42:14] <TiGSTeR> imagine if they made Mirosoft space ships - it's like your 14 lightyears from home...checking life-support and then you get a blue screen LOL :)
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[22:03:18] <wjp> ok, combat music is working
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[22:15:32] <TiGSTeR> excellent - nice one - does it work in binary too?
[22:16:09] <wjp> probably sometime this weekend or just afterwards
[22:16:28] <wjp> hm, I guess this attack delay should only apply to enemies
[22:16:37] <wjp> the avatar indeed isn't affected in dosbox
[22:17:07] <wjp> but ghouls for example do attack slower than skeletons
[22:28:44] <wjp> for the logs: it seems somebody wrote a guide in japanese on installing pentagram: http://homepage2.nifty.com/iec67tk/ultima8/install1.html
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[23:07:08] <TiGSTeR> do you work on Exult too?
[23:12:43] <TiGSTeR> thats great news btw
[23:37:15] <TiGSTeR> I gtg
[23:37:52] <TiGSTeR> fairewell - yes my friend, rest and heal, so you are strong and ready to face the perils before you - pleasent dreams
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