#pentagram@irc.freenode.net logs for 11 Dec 2003 (GMT)

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[00:24:46] <-- wjp has left IRC ("Zzzz....")
[00:36:55] <-- ragzter has left IRC (calvino.freenode.net irc.freenode.net)
[00:36:55] <-- Knight has left IRC (calvino.freenode.net irc.freenode.net)
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[00:56:28] <Knight> I already tried it..
[00:56:28] <Knight> :)
[00:56:28] <Knight> opps..
[00:56:28] <Knight> he has gone :(
[01:13:17] <-- ragzter has left IRC (calvino.freenode.net irc.freenode.net)
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[02:09:20] <watt> well.. I'm back.. but I'm guess developers are sleeping about now.
[02:22:04] <Knight> wjp = watt?
[03:01:23] <watt> no.
[04:21:28] <watt> oh.. I see what Colorless was saying about getSubKeys().. (I kept thinking that a XMLTree lookup would be O(log n) , but each XMLNode has a vector of keys.)
[04:43:33] <watt> well. This does make more sense now..
[05:00:00] <watt> hmm.. and I can see it is inefficient.
[05:00:31] <watt> iterating keys, then bindings, then SDLKeys
[05:03:16] <watt> err.. I apologize..
[05:03:32] <watt> s/Colorless/Colourless/
[05:04:04] <watt> I blame "American English" for that.
[05:07:16] <Knight> which one is american?
[05:08:01] <watt> which spelling?
[05:14:06] <watt> "Color" is the american spelling. "Colour" is the proper spelling.. IMO, but since I was taught to spell incorrectly.. well, you know.
[05:14:23] <watt> if that was what you were asking ?!?
[05:24:26] <Knight> yeah..
[05:24:28] <Knight> that was it..
[05:24:30] <Knight> sorry..
[05:24:44] <Knight> I remembered it was colour
[05:24:57] <Knight> I was taught british english ;)
[05:29:28] <watt> I also mispell words like theatre as theater. :)
[05:35:04] <watt> wow.. Kdict (from KDE) returns some really weird results sometimes.. the "Devil's Dictionary" is referenced for the word sycophant. and Easton's Bible Dictionary for "Theatre" says Theatres,
[05:35:04] <watt> as places of amusement, were unknown to the Jews.
[05:35:22] <watt> for seemingly no reason.
[05:36:36] <Knight> ?
[05:36:52] <Knight> still makes no sense :(
[05:46:23] <watt> ah.. and dict.org is the actual server for the dictionaries.
[05:46:55] <watt> I don't tend to make any sense.. I just blaber on :)
[05:49:15] <Knight> lol
[05:49:33] <Knight> i was wondering..
[05:49:50] <Knight> how is the development of pentagram going on?
[05:58:15] <-- Knight has left IRC (" HydraIRC -> http://www.hydrairc.com <- IRC has never been so cool")
[06:00:30] <watt> er.. he disappeared.
[06:13:44] <watt> omg.. I never tried to drag actors around.. I just dropped tarna into the water. beautiful..
[06:16:41] --> Cashman has joined #pentagram
[06:17:11] <Cashman> dragging actors around in the crusader games is fun, its a cheat called shape mover
[06:17:15] <Cashman> :-)
[06:17:30] <ragzter> crusader...!!!! :-)
[06:17:52] <ragzter> how long will it take til it is possible to play crusader with pentagram?
[06:17:56] <Cashman> yeah cruader got lots of lovely cheats
[06:18:36] <watt> it will take until someone codes support.
[06:18:44] <watt> I'd guess
[06:18:48] <Cashman> hmmm crusader is considered TGWDS - the games we dont support, ages!!! cant even display crusader maps yet, and the there is hardly any if any at all support for crusaders usecode
[06:19:09] <Cashman> the usecode...thats the bitch
[06:19:14] <ragzter> oh, i see :(
[06:19:26] <Cashman> but u like the game?? just as I do
[06:19:31] <watt> I think the old repo could display crusader maps.. don't quote me
[06:19:38] <ragzter> Cashman, EXTREMELY much
[06:19:49] <Cashman> yes u are right watt, to an extent
[06:20:11] <Cashman> http://pentagram.sourceforge.net/noregret.png
[06:20:17] <Cashman> http://pentagram.sourceforge.net/noremorse.png
[06:20:27] <Cashman> take a look ragzter, this was possible
[06:20:33] <ragzter> I am playing it alot.. listening to the music alot and I have actually remixed phil.mod (the regret main menu/base music)
[06:21:04] <ragzter> yeah. I saw those shots a while ago... cute :-)
[06:21:06] <Cashman> before I found out about pentagram I was writing a map viewer for crusader with another person it kinda works but that sorce is old and for dos
[06:21:15] <Cashman> u remixed phil.mod :-)
[06:21:25] <Cashman> nice I do a little remixing myself but not of the tracker type
[06:21:46] <ragzter> okay... Crusader for linux would be the Gold Mine #1
[06:21:50] <Cashman> wjp gave a hand with my code once, programmed in basic
[06:21:53] <ragzter> okay
[06:21:54] <Cashman> yeah
[06:22:06] <ragzter> haha basic :)
[06:22:18] <ragzter> good _and_ bad memories
[06:22:41] <Cashman> crusader will be partly playable like ultima8 if someones does somthing, since I've only ever programmed in basic I cant help otherwise I would be making things work
[06:23:27] <ragzter> okey.. I am watched the source yesterday
[06:23:30] <ragzter> -am
[06:23:42] <Cashman> watched source??
[06:23:47] <ragzter> didn't understand too much :)
[06:23:50] <ragzter> examined
[06:23:54] <ragzter> sorry.. swedish :)
[06:24:06] <Cashman> ?? u are swedish?
[06:24:14] <ragzter> yep
[06:24:16] <watt> They're trying to code it so support could be added without too much pain..
[06:24:40] <ragzter> okey
[06:24:50] <Cashman> yeah thats right watt, but at the moment we need developers working on the u8 support again.
[06:25:09] <Cashman> so far I see we have u watt working on a thing or 2? is wjp kind back in action on and off??
[06:25:12] <Cashman> anyone else
[06:25:35] <ragzter> I am not an expert... just coded for 2 years, I will maybe understand more of the code later
[06:25:40] <Cashman> I guess its amazing enough that the project has survived as long as it has
[06:26:02] <Cashman> yeah u a bit like watt I guess? u could have a little go in spare time I guess
[06:26:10] <watt> That's what I'm trying for.. I just need to get into a compatible coding style.. learn the GMP.
[06:26:27] <ragzter> too young and too swedish to participate and contribute to open source projects I guess :(
[06:26:29] <Cashman> the great master plan aye
[06:26:39] <Cashman> how young is young
[06:26:42] <ragzter> 15
[06:26:44] <ragzter> 16
[06:26:47] <ragzter> sry
[06:26:50] <Cashman> and watt?
[06:26:54] <Cashman> ur age?
[06:27:21] <Cashman> we are all older i'm 20 and wjp, colorless, darke etc.... are much older than me
[06:27:33] <Cashman> Uni students basically
[06:27:42] <ragzter> okey, nice :)
[06:27:43] <Cashman> how olds watt?
[06:28:18] <ragzter> I wish I was old and filled with experience :)
[06:29:26] <ragzter> Cashman, when was the last time you played crusader?
[06:30:19] <Cashman> few nights ago, the last time I clocked it was last christmas
[06:30:25] <Cashman> I got both
[06:30:39] <watt> I'm 21.. I started late.
[06:31:02] <ragzter> Cashman, the easiest difficulty?
[06:31:11] <Cashman> yeah so it goes me then watt then hmmm darke I think and then I think wjp and then colorless i thik is oldest?!
[06:31:19] <Cashman> and I dont know where kirben fits in?
[06:31:40] <ragzter> hehe.. have they been coding alot in their lives?
[06:31:44] <Cashman> anyone heard from kirben?
[06:32:04] <Cashman> yeah I guess, I know wjp is studying mainly math at uni
[06:32:33] <Cashman> darke is doing cisco networking like I am and half an IT degree, similar to me
[06:32:33] <ragzter> okey. so will I, later :)
[06:32:48] <watt> later.
[06:32:58] <Cashman> bye
[06:33:08] <watt> I'm about 3/4 done with a CS degree.
[06:33:42] <ragzter> okey, I don't know of CS. whats that?
[06:33:45] <Cashman> CS??
[06:34:16] <watt> Computer Science. IT with a heavy focus on programming.
[06:34:36] <Cashman> ohh true :-)
[06:34:48] <ragzter> okey.. I guess thats what I am going through in school right now
[06:35:07] <watt> except most of the programming in my school is a joke
[06:35:19] <Cashman> yeah gets like that
[06:35:20] <ragzter> INDEED
[06:36:05] <ragzter> you are actually the first guys I spoked english with for a year
[06:36:05] <watt> I can't even begin to say how many times I've written "war" or a simple soundex program..
[06:36:14] <ragzter> haha
[06:36:51] <Cashman> ok what u know I havnt looked at pentagram in ages!!! where should pentagra.cfg ne located? root of pentagram dir?
[06:36:54] <watt> some classes do actually teach useful/complicated things.. but it tends to be rare.
[06:37:06] <ragzter> however, so I am sorry if i missunderstand or write missunderstandable text
[06:37:25] <watt> that's ok.
[06:37:50] <ragzter> so what, how old is pentagram?
[06:38:03] <Cashman> look at the sourceforge website
[06:38:09] <ragzter> okey
[06:38:15] <Cashman> http://sourceforge.net/projects/pentagram
[06:38:26] <Cashman> Registered: 2002-05-17 16:30
[06:38:35] <watt> pentagram.cfg goes into the current running directory in windows..
[06:38:36] <Cashman> see we had a birthday not too long ago
[06:39:09] <ragzter> :-)
[06:39:39] <watt> if you run it from C:\ then that's where it should go.. I believe
[06:39:48] <ragzter> are you people from the exult project I recently read about?
[06:40:15] <watt> in linux ( yay ) it's under ~/.pentagram/pentagram.cfg
[06:40:42] <watt> the main developers are.
[06:41:09] <watt> This is a side project I guess.
[06:41:09] <ragzter> nice
[06:44:39] <ragzter> I see
[06:44:55] <Cashman> in goes the ultima 8 cd
[06:45:02] <ragzter> :-)
[06:45:14] <Cashman> crusader cd is in the other drive
[06:45:17] <watt> hehe.. absolutely.
[06:46:19] <ragzter> Crusader CD in the computer next to me :) the problem is that if I start that computer it will start sound like an permanent atom bomb explotion
[06:46:37] <ragzter> broken fans I guess
[06:46:45] <Cashman> heh
[06:47:51] * Cashman hunts for the ultima 8 win32 patch
[06:49:05] <ragzter> if you like the crusader music you might want to check out Andrew Sega's homemade music, he made some of the game music... http://www.gibdon.com/necros/
[06:49:28] <ragzter> great background music
[06:49:31] <Cashman> aye nice thanls
[06:49:34] <Cashman> thanx
[06:49:49] <ragzter> np :-)
[06:54:44] * Cashman applies the ultima 8 english latest ver patch, and the ultima 8 win32 patch
[06:54:50] <Cashman> yay now works under win again
[06:54:58] <Cashman> decompressing shapes file....
[06:56:24] <Cashman> Loading configuration files:
[06:56:24] <Cashman> @data/pentagram.cfg... Failed
[06:56:24] <Cashman> @home/pentagram.cfg... Failed
[06:56:37] <watt> I so need to rebuild the os on my 90mhz laptop.. give more space to the dos partition so I can load u8
[06:57:03] <Cashman> c:\ultima8 is the pentagram dir c:\ultima8\u8 is the ultima 8 dir, I put the pentagram.cfg in the pentagram dir and ukc
[06:57:44] <watt> how are you executing the binary?
[06:57:53] <Cashman> thorugh win32
[06:58:05] <watt> double-clicking the exe?
[06:58:14] <Cashman> yeah
[06:59:35] <watt> try making a shortcut to it (say, on your desktop) and change the running directory in the properties for that icon to c:\ultima8
[07:00:12] <watt> I think that may work.
[07:00:33] <watt> I really should load pentagram under win2k.
[07:02:16] <watt> my win2k has become a "it's there to game and _NOTHING_ELSE_" os.. so I don't keep anything on it.
[07:02:27] <Cashman> ok
[07:02:36] <ragzter> oh :P
[07:02:37] <watt> did it work?
[07:02:58] <ragzter> I am too afraid to use windows
[07:03:12] <watt> you should be... you should be.
[07:04:12] <watt> well. I do like win2k.. and some of xp.. but since I don't keep either constantly running I don't use them much at home.
[07:04:54] <Cashman> doesnt work
[07:05:22] <watt> hmm.. still not finding the file?
[07:05:26] <Cashman> bugger are u using linux , I sware this has somthing to do with the stuffup in the code from ages ago that made win32 not work
[07:06:12] <ragzter> okey.. I have an Windows partition with windows installed on it.. I believe its XP.. dunno why its there.. should remove it and install reiserfs there instead :-)
[07:06:22] <ragzter> no use for it
[07:06:25] <watt> no.. I think they have the windows code under control..
[07:06:36] <Cashman> <config>
[07:06:36] <Cashman> <games>
[07:06:36] <Cashman> <u8>
[07:06:36] <Cashman> <path>
[07:06:36] <Cashman> c:\ultima8\u8
[07:06:37] <Cashman> </path>
[07:06:39] <Cashman> <work>
[07:06:41] <Cashman> c:\ultima8
[07:06:43] <Cashman> </work>
[07:06:45] <Cashman> </u8>
[07:06:47] <Cashman> </games>
[07:06:49] <Cashman> <general>
[07:06:51] <Cashman> <data>
[07:06:53] <Cashman> c:\ultima8\data
[07:06:55] <Cashman> </data>
[07:06:57] <Cashman> </general>
[07:06:59] <Cashman> <video>
[07:07:01] <Cashman> <fullscreen>
[07:07:03] <Cashman> no
[07:07:05] <Cashman> </fullscreen>
[07:07:07] <Cashman> <width>
[07:07:09] <Cashman> 640
[07:07:11] <Cashman> </width>
[07:07:13] <Cashman> <height>
[07:07:15] <Cashman> 480
[07:07:17] <Cashman> </height>
[07:07:19] <Cashman> </video>
[07:07:21] <Cashman> </config>
[07:07:23] <Cashman> look ok
[07:07:23] <watt> put the pentagram.cfg in c:\ultima8\data
[07:07:27] <Cashman> "No games set up in configuration. Please read the README for instructions.
[07:07:54] <watt> wait.. that's not right.
[07:07:55] <Cashman> yeah I had tried that and just did again no luck
[07:08:26] <Cashman> basic config look ok?
[07:11:45] <watt> is it saying it found the cfg?
[07:12:42] <Cashman> Initialising SDL...
[07:12:42] <Cashman> Creating Kernel...
[07:12:42] <Cashman> Creating FileSystem...
[07:12:42] <Cashman> Creating Configuration...
[07:12:42] <Cashman> virtual path "@home": .
[07:12:43] <Cashman> Trying built-in data path
[07:12:45] <Cashman> virtual path "@data": data
[07:12:47] <Cashman> Loading configuration files:
[07:12:49] <Cashman> @data/pentagram.cfg... Failed
[07:12:51] <Cashman> @home/pentagram.cfg... Failed
[07:12:53] <Cashman> Game:
[07:12:55] <Cashman> Reading "config/general/data" config key.
[07:12:58] <Cashman> Key not found. Data path set to default.
[07:12:59] <Cashman> Scanning config file for games:
[07:14:14] <watt> hmm.. ok try opening a command prompt. type cd c:\ultima8 and then pentagram
[07:15:11] <Cashman> tried that
[07:15:43] <watt> and the cfg is in C:\ultima8?
[07:15:44] <Cashman> gonna need a little hand from one of the others when they come online I guess
[07:15:47] <Cashman> yip
[07:16:45] <Cashman> ok it works aye!!! I just had a problem in windows with file type
[07:17:00] <watt> oh. good.
[07:17:08] <Cashman> types!! grr I hate it when I find out Its somthing I've configured in windows heheh :-)
[07:17:51] <Cashman> config file but was not actually of true extention of .cfg if u know what I mean :-)
[07:18:17] <Cashman> must be a wordpad file not notepad in winxp etc.
[07:18:21] <watt> ah.. pentagram.cfg.cfg or pentagram?
[07:18:38] <watt> pentagram.txt>
[07:19:16] <Cashman> it was pentagram.cfg.txt either that or pentagram.cfg.cfg
[07:19:20] <Cashman> but .cfg.txt yeah
[07:19:24] <Cashman> grr
[07:19:44] <watt> always have show extensions on.
[07:19:49] <Cashman> what are u compiling pentagram under??
[07:20:02] <Cashman> I have got it turned on perminatly now watt :-)
[07:20:25] <Cashman> I got pentagram to compile under the win32 version of gcc mingw32
[07:20:33] <watt> I'm use it under gentoo linux. gcc 3.3.2
[07:20:46] <Cashman> colorless uses or I know he used microsoft visual
[07:20:48] <Cashman> brave lad
[07:20:54] <Cashman> gentoo aye
[07:20:54] <ragzter> hohohoho
[07:20:55] <Cashman> nice
[07:21:03] <ragzter> gentoo love :-)
[07:21:28] <Cashman> still the basic configs like I had I see, untile somthing else is done
[07:22:36] <Cashman> if only pentagram could display a crusader map again would be fun
[07:22:42] <Cashman> ok I have to go and I'll catch u all later
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[08:30:48] <watt> I swear.. I'm currently working on some of the worst java code ever written.. it's just bad.. I wouldn't doubt that it was generated butr some applet maker.
[09:09:56] <watt> I think my eyes are about to start bleeding.
[09:13:25] <Darke> Compile it, then run it through a decompiler. Usually that helps straighten most of the crud out, but you loose comments.
[09:13:56] * Darke *is* serious, he's done that before to clean up some cruddy java code. *grin*
[09:54:27] <watt> hmm.. that's not a bad idea.. but since I'm almost done.. I think I'll stick to this method
[09:55:28] <watt> and yeah.. I think I saw a little snippet of code that pretty much confirmed that no human wrote it.
[09:56:14] <watt> besides.. I get paid for this.. might as well take some time.. or I always could claim I did.
[09:56:22] <Darke> Heh.
[09:58:33] <watt> besides.. I java good!
[09:59:14] <Darke> Surpisingly enough, it's far easier to write this on my machine at home, in a cluttered workspace, with perpetual distractions surrounding me, rather then at work in a nice quiet office, with no distractions...
[09:59:59] <Darke> I dunno. Make me a cup and I'll try it and then I'll find out if you are good at making it. *innocentlook*
[10:00:48] * Darke really should avoid the trite java puns. Really. Too tempting they are. *grin*
[10:01:40] <watt> hmm distractions.. you did say Perl didn't you? I thought the entire language is based on distractions.. :) *evil grin* mwa ha
[10:02:12] <watt> It's been a while for me with Perl.. can't say I miss it.
[10:03:41] * Darke would prefer to code most of this in anything but. But the rest of the code I'm connecting to is in perl, and the guy who will probably end up maintaining this seems to like perl, so... despite the fact it's not the best language to do it in, I'm writing it in it.
[10:04:00] <watt> ohh. RedCoder need food badly!
[10:04:26] <watt> brb
[10:39:21] <watt> RedCoder has acquired food.
[10:49:14] * Darke is pretty sure that the perl language is based around making the easy, easy, the impossible, possible, and the complex datastructures a *massive* pain in the tail, but possible.
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[10:55:43] <Cashman> good luck watt
[10:55:50] <Cashman> u get any sleep there watt?
[10:55:53] <Cashman> ever
[10:55:56] <Cashman> hey darke
[10:56:49] <Darke> Hi!
[10:57:10] <Cashman> gonna book my ccna external after christmas :-)
[10:57:38] <Cashman> there been server problems and nz has temporarily been taken off the exam server
[10:57:51] <Cashman> but I got my marks back 4 semester 4 the other day
[10:59:17] <Darke> Cool.
[10:59:49] <Darke> Hrm... don't you get your marks as a % score upon completion of the test? Or is this an official kind of 'marks', mark?
[11:00:20] <Cashman> nah final module marks are a b c etc.
[11:00:30] <watt> nah.. this is an all-nighter.. luckily we've got 24hr supermarkets.
[11:00:43] <Darke> Ah. So you get a grading as well then. Fair enough.
[11:01:06] <Cashman> doesnt matter what u got once u finishe just so long as u passed each module bla bla bla and when u sit the external thats the score that counts
[11:01:15] <Darke> Yup.
[11:01:16] <Cashman> but again a pass is a pass and a ticket is a ticket
[11:01:36] <Cashman> hehe yeah I work for a 24hr supermarket here
[11:01:50] <Cashman> whats da bunny been doing?
[11:07:29] <Darke> Coding perl for work (was sick today so I'm trying to catch up), and occasionally studying for the ccna stuff.
[11:08:14] <Cashman> ok nice :-)
[11:08:25] <Cashman> flue? sick
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[11:43:35] <watt> ah coffee and liquor.. a match made in heaven.
[11:44:31] <watt> Hi Colourless.
[11:44:49] <Colourless> hi
[11:45:31] <watt> checked out the suggested getSubKeys(). you were very right...
[11:46:10] <watt> I need to figure out some way to make that bit of code more efficient
[11:48:09] <watt> right now it's for(subkeys){ for(bindings){ for(SDLkeys){} } }
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[14:03:04] <watt> hmm.. I can improve by ending the for(SDLKeys) and for(bindings) by ending the loop after a match is found.. I could do this by setting the values used in the condition to not be true, add found bools to the loops, or potentially break.
[14:04:03] <watt> name your favourite poison, I guess.
[14:06:18] <watt> actually break would only exit the conditional I think.
[14:07:10] <watt> a sub-method could use return though...
[14:08:10] <Colourless> break doesn't exist conditionals
[14:11:22] <watt> oh.. and here I thought it broke out of any brace set.. shows how often I use it.
[14:11:37] <watt> break then?
[14:14:20] <Colourless> break though only breaks out of 1 level of loops. so multiple levels of loops will be a problem
[14:15:41] <watt> right..it's actually already solved in this code.. not saying this code is necessarily the best, but the breaks do work.
[14:19:52] <watt> and a touch of test code shows that it worked.. yay.
[14:34:32] <watt> ok... and wjp doesm't like the classes for each binding... easy to change HIDBinding to a function pointer. Is this the consensus?
[14:38:13] <Colourless> classes are kind of overkill really
[14:45:51] <watt> I do agree.. I like having objects ties to the methods.. but they are mostly there to enforce the idea that you must implement onInputEvent to be considered a Binding.. the same principle can be applied to a function pointer, and everyone who would be mangling in input would be likely understand what's going on.
[14:46:03] <watt> right then.. function pointers it is.
[14:55:29] <watt> oh.. I messed up a touch in one area anyway.
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[15:43:46] <Colourless> having sort of hacked in hardware mouse cursor into pentagram, i've found one particular aspect of it rather nice. Showing where the mouse cursor outside of the pentagram window when dragging is more than just a little bit useful.
[15:44:04] <Colourless> of course as i hacked it in, it is rather slow at the moment.
[15:44:46] <Colourless> the mouse cursor is recreated and reset every rendering frame
[15:45:06] <Colourless> this sort of kills the framerate
[15:45:15] <DoomIhlVaria> You guys using SDL for Pentagram?
[15:45:58] <Colourless> and both Pentagrm and SDL want to set the cursor, so cursor flickers when moving the mouse
[15:46:16] <Colourless> yes we use SDL
[15:46:22] <DoomIhlVaria> Why not just use SDL's built in mouse functionality?
[15:49:06] <Colourless> because it's black and white only
[15:49:27] <Colourless> the game cursors are coloured
[15:50:27] <DoomIhlVaria> Ahhh
[15:58:29] <Knight> I really like what you have done with pentagram, and so quickly :)
[16:24:03] <watt> holy crap.. the function pointers worked the first time out.
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[17:37:09] <wjp> hi
[17:46:56] <Colourless> hi
[17:48:01] <wjp> hardware cursors?
[17:48:06] <wjp> windows-specific, I guess?
[17:48:30] <Colourless> yes
[17:53:56] <Colourless> it is actually quite easy to do coloured cursors, but it's now exactly obvious how exactly you are supposed to do it. MS's docs aren't the greatest
[17:54:20] <Colourless> to create a coloured mouse cursor, you've got to use the CreateIconIndirect() function
[17:55:24] <Colourless> all the CreateCursor functions only create B&W cursors
[17:56:21] * wjp nods pretending he knows these functions ;-)
[17:56:29] <Colourless> of course no where does it mention in the docs for the CreateCursor() functions that you need to use CreateIconIndirect
[17:58:09] <Colourless> :-)
[18:02:10] <wjp> hm, I don't think X supports coloured cursors
[18:02:40] <wjp> at least, that's what the manpages I looked at say
[18:02:51] <wjp> now there could of course be a hidden function like in windows for that :-)
[18:04:53] <Colourless> undoubtable the display drivers themselves convert the cursors to whatever format the display is actually set tp
[18:05:00] <Colourless> s/tp/to/
[18:06:14] <Colourless> assuming of course the display device doesn't actually use real 1 (or 2) bit hardware cursors :-)
[18:08:05] <Colourless> hmm. are you sure about X only supporting B&W?
[18:08:50] <Colourless> SDL uses XCreatePixmapCursor() to create cursors
[18:09:59] <wjp> yes
[18:10:08] <Colourless> does it require 1 bit images?
[18:11:09] <wjp> "Both source and mask, if specified, must have depth one"
[18:11:38] <wjp> bbl, dinner
[18:12:01] <Colourless> k
[18:18:33] <Colourless> XFree86 4.3 should support them
[18:20:22] <Colourless> uses some library called xcursor as far as i can tell.
[18:33:09] <wjp> ah, that uses the X Render extension it seems
[18:34:49] <wjp> hm, that takes 32bit ARGB images
[18:35:06] <wjp> I wonder if that means it supports partially transparent cursors? :-)
[18:35:29] <Colourless> as far as I understand, it would appear so
[18:38:40] <wjp> now why can't I find a function to actually set an XcursorImage as the current cursor...
[18:40:42] <wjp> I do see them in the header, but not in the manpage
[18:52:23] * wjp hmms
[18:52:40] <wjp> graphics/RenderSurface.h:28: conflicting types for `struct Font'
[18:52:43] <wjp> /usr/include/X11/X.h:105: previous declaration as `typedef XID Font'
[18:53:32] <wjp> any objections to moving Font into namespace Pentagram? :-)
[18:55:34] <Knight> hi
[19:00:11] <wjp> hi
[19:01:35] <Knight> how r ya..
[19:01:37] <wjp> XcursorSupportsARGB: 1
[19:01:45] <wjp> well, at least my X server supports coloured cursors :-)
[19:01:47] <Knight> yesterday you asked me if i had tried pentagram, ;)
[19:01:52] <wjp> I read the answer :-)
[19:02:03] <Knight> ;)
[19:02:04] <Knight> cool
[19:02:07] <Knight> hehehe
[19:02:32] <Knight> I was really amazed it was almost playable ;)
[19:07:12] <wjp> we still have a long way to go :-)
[19:08:33] <Knight> I know.. speacially speed..
[19:08:43] <wjp> speed?
[19:08:47] <Knight> at least.. it's doesn't go really fast on my comp..
[19:08:48] <Knight> :(
[19:08:49] <Knight> yeap..
[19:08:58] <wjp> that's probably because the resolution is rather high
[19:09:08] <wjp> try setting it to the original's 320x200
[19:09:14] <Knight> oh..
[19:09:30] <Knight> That should get me going then?
[19:09:49] <wjp> well, it should speed things up by about a factor 4
[19:10:00] <Knight> cool
[19:10:14] <wjp> what kind of cpu do you have?
[19:10:27] <Knight> celeron 366, 512 ram
[19:10:36] <Knight> running winxp, or slackware 9.1
[19:10:37] <wjp> hm, I see
[19:10:54] <Colourless> 320x200 should speed things up quite a bit
[19:11:15] <wjp> come to think of it, might even be more than a factor 4, since the sorting isn't linear
[19:11:43] <Knight> mmm, tell,.. any ideas what was of the X project by LB?
[19:12:43] <Colourless> X project was supposed to be a MMORPG set in a nearish future environment that was heavily story based. It was going to be nothing like ultima really
[19:13:09] <Knight> ouch, sorta what lineage came to be ?
[19:13:26] <Knight> I thought they were going to continue ultima, with another name as an rpg
[19:13:39] <Colourless> i don't know anything about lineage
[19:13:51] <Knight> Ultima 9 really lacked ultimas gameplay, just some nice graphics :(
[19:14:16] <Knight> At the moment i am waiting for ERA to be released.
[19:14:44] <Knight> Best Rpg's ever, Ultima, Fallout, Planescape Torment
[19:14:56] <Knight> And console ones, anything from Square ;)
[19:15:35] <Knight> not much people know of the existence of pentagram or do they?
[19:19:28] <wjp> probably not, but we don't really mind :-)
[19:19:44] <wjp> hm, ERA?
[19:20:23] <Knight> yeap
[19:20:40] <Knight> It was the Ultima 1 remake, but they had to drop it and change names..
[19:20:45] <Knight> www.eragame.com
[19:20:53] <Knight> it should kind of an ultima
[19:20:58] <Knight> *should be
[19:21:23] <wjp> ah, right
[19:23:04] <Knight> Looks promising ;)
[19:24:32] <Knight> I am really looking forward to some fallout 3, or Soul Reaver 3.. (Yeap i loved the LOK series)
[19:24:51] <Knight> Do you guys made an engine for crusader by any chance?
[19:26:32] <wjp> that's a secret :-)
[19:26:44] <wjp> wasn't fallout 3 cancelled recently?
[19:27:03] <Colourless> yes fallout 3 was cancelled
[19:27:17] <Colourless> actually that should be 'shelved'
[19:27:49] <Colourless> but we're talking about interplay here, so really it's canceled, they just wont say it.
[19:30:37] <Knight> Fallout 3 cancelled :(...
[19:30:42] * Knight cries...
[19:31:52] <Knight> I have my 2 original crusaders discs, on my desk.. any ideas on how i might play them again..
[19:32:40] <Colourless> install dos?
[19:32:46] <Knight> lol..
[19:32:55] <Knight> i was hoping you wouldn't answer that
[19:32:56] <Knight> :p
[19:33:09] <wjp> hm, figure out why dosbox won't run them?
[19:33:37] <Knight> dosbox, runs really slow on my comp..
[19:33:41] <Knight> dunno why..
[19:33:48] <Colourless> hack the exe files so they wont gpf under windows?
[19:34:15] <wjp> well, dosbox emulates an entire PC. You need a really fast pc for that to work at an acceptable speed
[19:34:16] <Colourless> considering that Knight only has a Cel366, Dosbox is going to be slow :-)
[19:34:32] <Knight> lol..
[19:34:41] <Knight> I need a new computer.. damn :(
[19:34:55] <Knight> Paypal Donations Accepted..
[19:34:57] <Knight> =P
[19:35:12] <Knight> That would be a funny project..
[19:35:23] <Knight> Help me Upgrade my PC
[19:36:14] <Knight> And showing screenshots of programs that run really slow..
[19:36:28] <Knight> you really don't know what's to play lionheart on this lol
[19:36:42] <Knight> or w3
[19:37:36] <Colourless> w3?
[19:37:45] <Knight> warcraft 3
[19:38:38] <Colourless> people generally people call that wc3
[19:38:46] <Knight> lol..
[19:38:50] <Knight> i missed a c..
[19:39:15] <ragzter> Knight, its really worth installing dos for playing Crusader :) you can play other old goddies as well such as C&C etc.
[19:39:44] <Knight> true, but they won't recognize my sound card..
[19:39:47] <Knight> and that's bad :(
[19:39:50] <ragzter> really?
[19:40:00] <Knight> well.. i think so..
[19:40:02] <ragzter> what soundcard do you got?
[19:40:12] <Knight> soundblaste 128 pci
[19:40:18] <Knight> noop..
[19:40:25] <Knight> soundblaster 64 pci
[19:40:31] <ragzter> hmm.. I am sure there are dos drivers for that card
[19:40:54] <Knight> I'll gotta find them out then
[19:41:14] <ragzter> yeah.. absolutley
[19:41:25] <Knight> but still i should try to upgrade my pc..
[19:41:34] <Knight> win some kinda contest or something.. lol..
[19:41:42] <Knight> get called for a job..
[19:41:49] <ragzter> hehe :)
[19:42:02] <Knight> get plenty of donations?
[19:42:06] <Knight> lol
[19:43:05] <Knight> and then i will turn this into a server. :)
[19:43:14] <Knight> mmmm...
[19:43:21] <Knight> Trivia Question for you guys
[19:43:29] <Knight> You know who Kalen was?
[19:44:16] <ragzter> I am not very good at remembering just about anything.. such as names.. so, hmm, no, I don't think so
[19:45:07] <Knight> lol
[19:45:14] <Knight> It's U8 related ;0
[19:45:15] <Knight> ;)
[19:45:46] <ragzter> oh.. I am not an U8 player :( that migth be why
[19:46:54] <ragzter> just (another? :P) crusader addict :P
[19:47:39] <Knight> lol
[19:47:40] <Knight> hehehe
[19:47:46] <Colourless> i guess pentagram would be pretty uninteresting to you right now. The Crusaders are of course TGWDS
[19:47:47] <Knight> Crusader rules..
[19:47:52] <Knight> And privateer also
[19:48:09] <ragzter> whats TGWDS?
[19:48:11] <Knight> TGWDS?
[19:49:31] <ragzter> Colourless, I am not just here for crusader.. I am intrested in programming and the open source community and I do not really know where to be
[19:49:45] <Knight> What i never understood was why, in one of my crusaders missions i could not ended and the game shutted me down :(
[19:49:59] <Knight> like if it had some time thing... or something like that
[19:50:05] <ragzter> also I have made a pare of tries coding usecode and such (very long time ago)
[19:50:36] <ragzter> Knight, how sad :(
[19:50:49] <Knight> yeap.. I still dunno what that was..
[19:50:52] <Knight> but well..
[19:50:55] <Knight> happened everytime..
[19:51:01] <ragzter> did it literally shut down the game?
[19:51:10] <Knight> lol.. not shut down..
[19:51:14] <Knight> but ended the game..
[19:51:19] <Knight> like some kinda ending..
[19:51:21] <ragzter> oh.. regret?
[19:51:24] <Knight> yeap
[19:51:27] <Knight> same one
[19:51:33] <Knight> dunno how it ends
[19:51:37] <ragzter> oh.. yeah.. that place is hard
[19:51:39] <Knight> is it supposed to end like that?
[19:51:42] <ragzter> no
[19:51:54] <ragzter> I don't think so
[19:51:58] <Knight> well, i didn't know what to do.. lol..
[19:52:12] <ragzter> I haven't finished regret :P
[19:52:13] <Knight> in less than 5 min the game ended i think..
[19:52:15] <Knight> lol
[19:52:21] <Knight> you passed that mission?
[19:52:33] <ragzter> no ;(
[19:52:36] <ragzter> tried many times
[19:52:52] <Knight> lol
[19:52:57] <Knight> it's just impossible..
[19:53:02] <Knight> even playing it in easy
[19:53:23] <ragzter> yeah.. hmm, I think I am going to give it a few more tries
[19:54:13] <ragzter> when I came to that place I tried and tried and tried.. and at last, I got angry and started play remorse instead on an harder difficulty
[19:54:14] <Knight> lol
[19:54:28] <Knight> yeap, after that i left regret..
[19:54:40] <Knight> and then i got my files lost :(
[19:55:08] <ragzter> hey, thats also another reason I'm here at #pentagram, talk about good (and bad) memories about crusader :)
[19:55:28] <Knight> lol
[19:55:47] <Knight> still i want to know what TGWDS means
[19:55:51] <ragzter> me too
[19:55:59] <Knight> Colourless.. you there?
[19:56:00] <ragzter> Colourless, tell us :)
[19:56:11] <Knight> please... pretty pretty pretty please..
[19:56:17] <Colourless> The Games We Don't Support
[19:56:34] <ragzter> oh, can I add an "yet" there at the end? :)
[19:56:41] <Knight> I'm starting to sound like guybrush threepwood on MI2
[19:56:55] <ragzter> haha
[19:57:07] <Knight> Oh... will you be supporting Privateer?,.. (Silly question ;))
[19:57:29] <ragzter> what
[19:58:18] <Knight> you don't know Privateer?
[19:58:26] <wjp> privateer?
[19:58:30] <ragzter> nope
[19:58:42] <Knight> Yup, it was a game by origin
[19:58:49] <wjp> um, privateer is a space flight game, isn't it?
[19:58:53] <Knight> kinda wing commander, but better
[19:58:55] <Knight> yeap
[19:59:12] <Knight> I really liked, the best space flight game i played.
[19:59:56] <Colourless> why would you even bother asking if we would support that
[20:00:18] <Knight> lol.. dunno.. just to annoy a bit ;)
[20:01:17] * Knight is listening to 39. Nobuo Uematsu - Fithos Lusec Wecos Vinosec
[20:02:04] <ragzter> listening to "Metroplex" by Andrew Sega (made some of the crusader music)
[20:02:27] <Knight> cool
[20:02:33] <Knight> Metroplex...?
[20:02:41] <ragzter> dunno :)
[20:02:47] <Knight> how was the autobot city robot called?
[20:02:52] <Knight> I think it was called metroplex..
[20:03:11] <ragzter> I do not know of autobot city robot anyway
[20:04:15] <Knight> you never saw Transformers?
[20:04:31] <ragzter> is it a movie? if so; no
[20:04:43] <Knight> lol.. nope..
[20:04:45] <ragzter> I don't watch movies alot :P
[20:04:50] <ragzter> okey
[20:04:53] <Knight> American cartoon
[20:04:58] <Knight> but it's old
[20:05:02] <Knight> 80's stuff or so
[20:05:02] <ragzter> okey
[20:05:25] <ragzter> heh.. I didnt live in the 80's
[20:05:31] <ragzter> oh well 3 years
[20:05:44] <ragzter> but I dont remember much from then :)
[20:05:48] <Knight> born in 87?
[20:05:50] <ragzter> yup
[20:05:56] <Knight> ah..
[20:05:59] <Knight> maybe that's why
[20:06:08] <Knight> i was born in 82 ;)
[20:06:13] <ragzter> okay
[20:06:41] <ragzter> I was born in swedish too (and still live here) so I dont know much about american cartoons :)
[20:07:48] <ragzter> where ye from? america?
[20:08:18] <Knight> Argentina
[20:08:57] <ragzter> oh I see
[20:37:31] <watt> Ok.. version 2 of the patch is up... still a few more improvements to be made plus doco.
[20:45:45] <wjp> ok, looks better
[20:46:07] <wjp> I'd still prefer using a std::map<std::string, HIDBinding> to store the bindings in, though
[20:46:24] <watt> still thinking about it.
[20:46:27] <wjp> hm, although I guess that makes it case-sensitive by default
[20:47:01] <watt> unless you give it a case insensitive Op
[20:47:11] <wjp> exactly
[20:47:48] <watt> I've done that for a dictionary spell checker. It's not too bad.
[20:48:07] <wjp> it saves you a loop in loadBindings
[20:48:21] <watt> but I think insertion time would actually lower the efficiecy.
[20:48:37] <wjp> efficiency isn't really the point
[20:48:51] <watt> complexity?
[20:49:10] <wjp> cleaner
[20:49:19] <wjp> more intuitive
[20:49:35] <watt> yes. I agree there.
[20:49:42] <wjp> the bindings are accessed only by name, so it makes more sense to me to store them in a structure that allows name-lookups
[20:50:17] <watt> I'm actually suprised that the XMLTrees are built with maps.
[20:53:13] <wjp> hm, I haven't looked at the internals of those all that much
[20:53:19] <Colourless> um, but they aren't afaik
[20:53:36] <watt> it'd be really nice if we had a good hashmap implementation to use.
[20:53:43] <wjp> no, they seem to use vectors
[20:54:15] <watt> sorry s/are/aren't/
[20:54:26] <wjp> ah :-)
[20:54:36] <watt> I was thinking while typing..
[20:54:38] <wjp> that's to preserve order in the config file, most likely
[20:55:22] <watt> s/was/wasn't/
[20:55:34] <watt> maybe I should get sleep soon
[21:02:19] * wjp commits some fairly useless things to boost our activity rating a bit :-)
[21:03:08] <wjp> (moved Font into namespace Pentagram)
[21:04:31] <watt> oh yeah.. I change mouse buttons to 10 because if I pushed one of the higher buttons.. crash! 10 was chosen due to strange mice like this one http://www.cleansweepsupply.com/pages/skugroup26351.html
[21:04:35] <Colourless> perhaps we should put everything into namespace Pentagram?
[21:07:21] <wjp> hm, is that worth the hassle?
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[21:59:46] <Dominus> people were talking about the developers age. The documenation guy (who doesn't do much) is 27 years old (<- me)
[22:00:25] <Dominus> and wc3 still means Wing Commander 3 to me :-)
[22:01:20] <wjp> apparently I'm already "much older" than Cashman who's 20...
[22:01:20] <wjp> imagine how old he must think you are :-)
[22:01:32] <Dominus> :)
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[22:02:27] <watt> I personally look at it as a perspective of a few years is a lot in programming.
[22:03:06] <wjp> true
[22:03:23] <wjp> but that depends more on when you started than your absolute age, I think
[22:03:26] <watt> I imagine what I could know in 3 years. Makes me tingle.
[22:06:14] <watt> although, I don't think I'll be learning in the same exponential scale I have in the last year.
[22:06:41] <watt> damn I crammed in a lot.
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[22:30:13] <watt> mouse logic still needs tweaking.. now that I actually have a working u8 I can see that.
[22:31:00] <watt> maybe this will call for a flowchart to keep it all straight.
[22:36:53] <watt> original game also handles input on key down it appears.
[22:37:47] <watt> and if combat is held avatar will continue switching between them (this was bad though.)
[22:52:37] <wjp> a flowchart might be useful, yes :-)
[22:52:47] <wjp> movement/mouse states are a real mess
[23:00:47] <watt> I'm adding a macros in.. SDL_UP and SDL_DOWN to take place of "SDL_SDL_MOUSEBUTTONUP: case SDL_KEYUP: case SDL_JOYBUTTONUP"
[23:01:14] <watt> then "case SDL_DOWN:" handles all 3.
[23:02:23] <watt> respectively of course.
[23:04:07] <watt> s/a/2/
[23:06:54] <watt> yeah.. keydown feels right..
[23:08:47] <watt> hmm.. another problem.. double binding keys to the same action could cause strange things if that action is different for up than it is for down.
[23:11:08] <watt> Down: left->avatarMoverProcess(left), Down: a->avatarMoverProcess(left), Up: a->avatarMoverProcess(left)->terminate(), Up: left->avatarMoverProcess(left)->terminate()
[23:11:23] <watt> that's something to watch out for.
[23:13:43] <watt> It shouldn't affect the binding that are only up or only down though.
[23:15:17] <wjp> double binding?
[23:15:23] <watt> I thought of a rather evil solution.. mutex the double binded stuff.
[23:15:37] <wjp> why allow double bindings?
[23:15:40] <watt> like the quickmoverprocess.
[23:15:57] <watt> it down to begin.. up to end
[23:16:44] <watt> oh .. as for two keys to the same action.. we already have that.
[23:16:58] <watt> with the patch, that is.
[23:22:30] <wjp> I'm confused
[23:22:46] <wjp> what did you mean by that "Down: left->avatarMoverProcess(left), ...." line?
[23:23:33] <watt> down: left = left arrow key down .. sorry.
[23:24:25] <watt> psuedo stuff. my trying to make the point made it confusing I guess.
[23:24:31] <wjp> so you mean if you have key A and key B mapped to the quickmover?
[23:24:42] <watt> uhuh.
[23:24:47] <wjp> that would cause a problem if you start pressing both at the same time?
[23:24:59] <watt> potentially.
[23:25:05] <wjp> (is that what you meant?)
[23:25:14] <watt> yup.
[23:26:20] <watt> it would not be a problem if both key A and B bind to something like openbackpack though.
[23:28:54] <wjp> hm, I doubt that this will pose a problem
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[23:29:12] <wjp> you're asking for trouble if you do something like this, I think :-)
[23:29:12] <Cashman> yeah I read about the age thing, thanx dominus heh
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[23:29:34] <Cashman> watt wtf do u ever get sleep thease days? heh
[23:29:39] <Cashman> just a few hrs I guess
[23:29:51] <Cashman> work this afternoon grrr
[23:30:41] <Cashman> I put the avatar into attack mode and looks good, but there is no animation for action attack, lunge etc.
[23:30:52] <watt> like I said.. the simplest solution would be a semaphore up one pressing the key down and semaphore down on key up... then the functions handle sequentially.
[23:30:57] <wjp> Cashman: patience patience :-)
[23:31:14] <Cashman> how does the points system work, is that all usecode controlled?? cashman is being patient
[23:31:33] <wjp> points? you mean str, dex, int?
[23:32:00] <Cashman> yeah sorry, I'm no rpg person so I dont know jack about the points system
[23:32:09] <wjp> partly usecode controlled, but not much
[23:32:10] <Cashman> yeah what u said wjp
[23:32:16] <watt> Cashman: I actually haven't slept in a about 30 hrs now.
[23:32:24] <Cashman> heck
[23:32:29] <Cashman> what keeps u awake?
[23:32:42] <wjp> any of you a bit up-to-date on current html/css stuff?
[23:32:43] <watt> things start to get really clear around 27 though.
[23:33:05] <watt> insomnia I think.
[23:33:13] <Cashman> what do u mean 27 hrs??? u start feeling wide awak again??? insomnia ouch ...
[23:33:19] <wjp> specifically, what would be the "proper" way to get indented stuff
[23:33:21] <wjp> ?
[23:33:39] <Cashman> can't help sorry, watt? any ideas..
[23:33:52] <Cashman> heh watt u going for darkes record what ever that is
[23:34:29] <watt>    would do two spaces in...
[23:34:52] <watt> I wouldn't say it's proper.
[23:35:36] <Cashman> bye
[23:35:41] <watt> not necessary awake.. just focused. It's strange.
[23:35:45] <watt> bye.
[23:37:32] <watt> <nobr> </nobr> works too.. but thats not actually html standard.
[23:37:39] <watt> as for css.
[23:37:45] <watt> one moment
[23:37:46] <-- Cashman has left IRC (Read error: 54 (Connection reset by peer))
[23:39:01] <wjp> to make it even more fun, it should be generated by XSLT :-)
[23:40:18] <watt> wait.. nobr indicated not to wrap text.. my bad.
[23:41:12] <wjp> hm, maybe a style of 'position:absolute; left:<something>'
[23:41:27] <watt> text-indent: for css on text.
[23:41:42] <wjp> hm, text-indent
[23:42:12] <watt> margin-left: for anything else.
[23:42:37] <wjp> hm, I guess I need to wrap the text in some kind of tag to be able to apply a style, though
[23:42:51] <watt> right..
[23:43:58] <watt> <P style="text-indent: 3em">text</P> I believe can do text..
[23:44:13] <wjp> yes
[23:44:14] <wjp> but :-)
[23:44:42] <wjp> I probably didn't mention I need several lines below eachother at different indents
[23:44:46] <wjp> *oops*
[23:44:56] <watt> margin-left can only be used on things with "Box properties".. usually only tables and graphics.
[23:45:19] <wjp> hmm... this will probably be inside a table anyway
[23:45:25] * wjp thinks a bit
[23:45:55] <watt> tables do simplify everything.
[23:47:37] <watt> one can also suppliment sleep with calories. :)
[23:48:28] <wjp> yay! it works :-)
[23:49:30] <wjp> now, the second column of that table...
[23:54:41] <wjp> http://www.math.leidenuniv.nl/~wpalenst/xmltest.html
[23:55:11] <wjp> autogenerated from
[23:55:14] <wjp> http://www.math.leidenuniv.nl/~wpalenst/xmltest.xml
[23:55:55] <wjp> vertical align may need some tweaking, but the basic structure seems to be working
[23:55:59] <wjp> thanks for the css pointers :-)
[23:56:21] <wjp> trying to work with xslt and css at the same time while I'm not particularly experienced in either is interesting :-)