#pentagram@irc.freenode.net logs for 13 Mar 2004 (GMT)

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[00:09:34] * wjp sighs
[00:09:49] <wjp> I have some combat mode support in AvatarMoverProcess now
[00:09:57] <wjp> but it isn't pretty :-)
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[03:16:30] <Sheng_Gradilla> good evening :)
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[13:17:21] <Colourless> hi
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[20:45:36] <wjp_> oh, btw, the interview on ultima.rpgdot.com was published today
[20:46:06] <Colourless> ok
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[21:04:32] <Colourless> and screenshots too :-)
[21:05:20] <wjp_> yes, they were actually the reason I noticed that Pyros bug :-)
[21:05:37] <wjp_> I wanted to run some demos from the cheat menu to get some scenes not at the start of the game
[21:05:51] <Colourless> :-)
[21:07:30] <Dominus> "The Ultima 8 engine was also used by the two Crusader games and we hope to support them too"
[21:07:48] <Dominus> TGWHTS then
[21:08:08] <Colourless> untill they are supported, they still are TGWDS
[21:08:08] <wjp_> they got my name wrong at the top :-)
[21:08:20] <Dominus> oops
[21:09:02] <wjp_> makes me wonder if Octarine is dutch
[21:10:21] <Colourless> Parcival is
[21:13:02] <Colourless> (who was the one who posted the news stories)
[21:16:27] <Fingolfin> hm... I don't want to complain... but I think I'll do it anyway... 8-)
[21:16:39] <Fingolfin> regarding u8bindings.cfg and u8weapons.cfg
[21:16:55] <Fingolfin> those files almost look like XML, but they clearly aren't, since they aren't "normalized"
[21:17:03] <Fingolfin> they abuse element names to carry data
[21:17:09] <Fingolfin> i.e.
[21:17:09] <Fingolfin> <t>EngineStats</t>
[21:17:09] <Fingolfin> <x>ItemLocator</x>
[21:17:11] <wjp_> we're getting rid of the whole xml stuff soon
[21:17:29] <Fingolfin> with XML, that would be something like <key binding="t">EngineStats</key>
[21:17:31] <Fingolfin> ah
[21:17:39] <Fingolfin> well, there is no XML stuff in pentagram, just pseudo-XML ;-)
[21:17:44] <Fingolfin> that's fine then
[21:18:17] <Fingolfin> if this had been kept, I would have voted strongly to replace it by "real" XML, at least in the data normalization sense :-)
[21:18:35] <wjp_> where "soon" of course means "when I can find the time" :-)
[21:18:43] <Fingolfin> what kind of data format will be used then?
[21:19:00] <wjp_> oh, something like scummvm :-)
[21:19:10] <Fingolfin> oh
[21:19:14] <Fingolfin> I thought that was just for the config file
[21:19:18] <Fingolfin> not for data files
[21:20:12] <wjp_> I'd prefer to keep things similar
[21:20:30] <wjp_> arguably the static data files could be kept in xml
[21:20:56] <wjp_> (I don't consider keybindings static, btw, but weapon data is)
[21:22:29] <Fingolfin> keybindings IMO would be part of the config file anyway..
[21:22:49] <wjp_> might make the config file rather large
[21:22:55] <Fingolfin> weapons data are static data, indeed. I didn't mean to imply they should stay in XML, though, just didn't understand they were going to be in the .INI format, too
[21:23:05] <wjp_> especially since you might have several games with the same keybindings
[21:23:10] <Fingolfin> so, having two separate config files is better? :-)
[21:23:19] <Fingolfin> so ... ?
[21:23:30] * Fingolfin has one scummvm config file with the settings for several dozen games in it :-)
[21:23:48] <wjp_> well, yes, but that's a handful of settings per game, not dozens of keys per game
[21:24:23] <Fingolfin> hm, maybe I don't understand the issue quite correctly. Are the key sets radically different for each game?
[21:24:39] <Fingolfin> or isn't it rather so that most probably users will want to have similar key mappings in the games anyway?
[21:25:00] <Fingolfin> that's why we have two levels in ScummVM, one for global default settings, and one with game specific settings...
[21:25:11] <Fingolfin> so you don't have to repeat "scaler=hq2x" 50 times :-)
[21:25:13] <wjp_> we have two (or three) types of games
[21:25:20] <Fingolfin> yeah I know
[21:25:29] <wjp_> u8 and the crusaders have totally different keys
[21:25:33] <Fingolfin> but I only know U8 myself so I have no idea about the key bindings of the others
[21:25:34] <Fingolfin> ah
[21:26:11] <wjp_> so I guess one way would be to have [u8keys], [crusaderkeys] sections
[21:26:12] <Fingolfin> well, I guess it's a matter of taste. Still don't see why I would prefer having my configs in two (or three? or six?) separate files... ?
[21:27:14] <Colourless> different games might also want different screen resolution settings
[21:27:31] <Colourless> u8 is meant to run at 320x200, crusader at 640x400
[21:28:23] <wjp_> I guess we're going to have three levels of settings: global, per game type, per game
[21:28:23] <Colourless> sound settings also different... however there isn't a huge number of settings so they 'could' all be places within 1 section for each game
[21:28:56] <Fingolfin> yeah
[21:29:09] <Fingolfin> over all, this is all not really much different from what we have in ScummVM, I think
[21:34:36] * Colourless is going now
[21:34:36] <Colourless> cya
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[21:41:06] * wjp_ hmms about config files a bit
[21:41:37] <wjp_> scummvm has a system where game-specific settings can override global settings, right?
[21:43:21] <wjp_> so if you wanted the value of the 'fullscreen' variable, you'd check the game section first, and the global section after that
[21:49:39] <Fingolfin> yeah
[21:49:47] <Fingolfin> we actually have 3rd purely virtual sections
[21:49:58] <Fingolfin> which is hard-wired (i.e. loaded from source code, so to say)
[21:50:01] <Fingolfin> the "defaults"
[21:50:21] <wjp_> that's that "setdefault" function?
[21:50:48] <Fingolfin> registerDefault in our case
[21:50:48] <wjp_> (don't have the sources open currently so I may be misremembering the exact name)
[21:50:56] <wjp_> right, that one :-)
[21:51:04] <Fingolfin> the effect is that in client code, instead of writing: "if (configIsPresent("fullscreen")) fullscreen = config("Fullscren") else fullscreen = DEFAULT_FULLSCREEN" we can just write " fullscreen = config("Fullscren")"
[21:51:27] <wjp_> modulo typoes :-)
[21:51:52] <Fingolfin> actually, that's only 50% opportunities for typos, too...
[21:52:05] <wjp_> also centralizes the setting of defaults
[21:52:06] <Fingolfin> well, not quite..
[21:52:10] <Fingolfin> 0.5 * typos + 1 ;-)
[21:52:12] <Fingolfin> yup
[21:52:20] <wjp_> if you need the fullscreen setting in two places, the defaults might get out of sync
[21:52:30] <wjp_> (otherwise, that is)
[21:52:31] <Fingolfin> previously, we setup enum/consts with default values and sprinkled them across the code
[21:52:33] <Fingolfin> indeed
[21:52:39] <Fingolfin> that was one of the problems :-)
[21:53:07] <Fingolfin> also, some settings were saved both in some member variable, and in the config system, which lead to sync issues, too
[21:53:16] <wjp_> do all the variables have this behaviour or can you define variables to be really global-section-only or game-specific-only?
[21:54:03] <Fingolfin> not exactly that, but when I query/set config settings, I can specify the exact section to take the value from
[21:54:13] <Fingolfin> that's important for us
[21:54:28] <Fingolfin> so I can do
[21:54:29] <Fingolfin> String gfxMode = ConfMan.get("gfx_mode", _domain);
[21:54:52] <Fingolfin> _domain can be ConfigManager::kApplicationDomain, or "monkey" or "atlantis" or ... you get the idea
[21:55:31] <Fingolfin> more cleanly, one would first use "if (ConfMan.hasKey("gfx_mode", _domain)" to check if the key is present in that domain at all
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[23:12:06] <AsEsInO-ViRtUaL> hello
[23:12:33] <wjp_> hi
[23:13:03] <AsEsInO-ViRtUaL> where are you from?
[23:13:12] <wjp_> Netherlands
[23:13:42] <AsEsInO-ViRtUaL> i am from Chile.
[23:15:35] <AsEsInO-ViRtUaL> ZzZ..
[23:15:56] <wjp_> ZzZ..? isn't it afternoon over there? :-)
[23:16:19] <AsEsInO-ViRtUaL> its 19:15 pm.
[23:16:21] <AsEsInO-ViRtUaL> and there?
[23:16:31] <wjp_> a bit after midnight
[23:16:53] <wjp_> hm, I keep getting confused about how far west south america is :-)
[23:16:54] <AsEsInO-ViRtUaL> aww..
[23:17:22] <Fingolfin> depends on which part you are in ;-)
[23:17:29] <wjp_> that's true :-)
[23:17:32] <AsEsInO-ViRtUaL> Chile.. its so far..
[23:17:36] <wjp_> but Chile is on the west coast
[23:17:37] <AsEsInO-ViRtUaL> from your country
[23:17:49] <AsEsInO-ViRtUaL> Chile its the ass of the world
[23:17:51] <AsEsInO-ViRtUaL> :P
[23:18:10] <AsEsInO-ViRtUaL> because all the countrys are far.
[23:19:02] <AsEsInO-ViRtUaL> wjp the mouse eat your hands?
[23:19:25] <wjp_> eh, who, what, where? mice can do that? :-)
[23:19:35] <wjp_> good thing I'm using the keyboard mainly :-)
[23:20:07] <AsEsInO-ViRtUaL> what kind of music do you hear?
[23:20:26] * wjp_ is listening to the rain outside, currently :-)
[23:20:57] <AsEsInO-ViRtUaL> i am listening IMMORTAL
[23:20:58] <AsEsInO-ViRtUaL> :D
[23:22:34] <AsEsInO-ViRtUaL> uhM.. all this channel its sleeping i guess.
[23:22:56] * wjp_ is busy with some other stuff
[23:23:06] <AsEsInO-ViRtUaL> ouch..
[23:23:13] <wjp_> 'ouch?'
[23:23:31] <AsEsInO-ViRtUaL> it like "aam.."