#pentagram@irc.freenode.net logs for 13 Mar 2006 (GMT)

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[16:17:54] <Dark-Star> hi!
[16:18:01] <Dark-Star> wjp, are you there?
[16:18:48] <wjp> hi
[16:18:59] <wjp> (which means yes :-) )
[16:19:57] <Dark-Star> thanks, the CD arrived today :)
[16:20:14] <Dark-Star> so, how much do I owe you?
[16:20:19] <wjp> nothing :-)
[16:21:34] <Dark-Star> cool, thanks a lot!
[16:22:55] <wjp> no problem; shipping to Germany is quite cheap, in any case
[16:24:29] <wjp> there's a pc9800 (I think; maybe pc8900?) emulator on there for the first 6 ultima's
[16:24:50] <wjp> the BG and SI appear to be identical to the ones in the 'Complete U7' edition
[16:26:33] <Dark-Star> yes, I've just noticed the disk image files... FDI seems common for japanese emulators, I remember seeing it somewhere before
[16:28:03] <wjp> my guess was that it stood for 'floppy disk image'
[16:28:19] <wjp> but I didn't look it up to confirm that guess
[16:29:51] <Dark-Star> yes, probably... although there's at least one other disk image format which also uses FDI, but that is used for amiga-disks only...
[16:31:33] <Dark-Star> now I'll be re-building pentagram, I can't wait to see japanese U8 :)
[16:31:58] <wjp> it should be working somewhat; there are some reports of crashes while reading books, though
[16:32:21] <wjp> but I haven't managed to reproduce those
[16:40:48] <wjp> Generally it appears to be working well, though. We've even got .ttf support if you're willing to experiment :-)
[16:41:27] <Dark-Star> yes, I've seen it in the commit logs... just didn't have time to play around with it recently
[16:42:10] <Dark-Star> How does the original U8 support japanese fonts? Does it come with thousands of shapes for each letter?
[16:46:08] <wjp> it has one font with 3000+ characters
[16:49:01] <wjp> (in addition to the regular roman fonts)
[16:51:15] <Dark-Star> ah okay. That sounds like the full JIS Level 1 kanji set plus kana
[16:51:28] <wjp> yeah
[16:51:45] <wjp> in the standard order as well, luckily
[16:53:07] <Dark-Star> aaw, that's almost too simple ;-)
[16:53:39] <Dark-Star> how's the text encoded? ShiftJIS?
[16:55:49] * Dark-Star wrote a paper on japanese text encodings and charsets recently
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[17:57:33] <peewee_zz> Hello.. I hope i caught up with you guys
[17:57:51] <peewee_zz> I'll brb, but i got a quick thing I'd like to ask you guys
[18:01:01] <Dark-Star> go on and ask right away, someone will (eventually) answer ;-)
[18:04:49] <peewee_zz> O.k. sorry about that.. has anyone happened to see my U8 online proposition on the Exile or Dino's message boards?
[18:06:02] <peewee_zz> (btw the tick is awesome.. SPOON!!!)
[18:08:27] <wjp> Dark-Star: yeah, shiftjis
[18:08:44] <wjp> (which must be one of the ugliest encodings ever...)
[18:09:55] <wjp> the decoder in pentagram is a bit simpler than a full shiftjis decoder because it only had to support JIS level 1 kanji, luckily
[18:10:13] <Dark-Star> you haven't seen EUC-{JP,CN,...} then, they're not very pretty either IMHO
[18:10:43] <wjp> wasn't euc-jp simply a two byte encoding with the jis-row in byte 1 and the jis-column in byte 2?
[18:11:23] <wjp> (moved up a bit to avoid collisions with ascii)
[18:11:30] <peewee_zz> Anyway my real question is as follows: Someone suggested that I use pentegram because it provides the 800x600 resolution i was looking for, and to mod pentegram is a much better start than starting from scratch with LCC
[18:11:44] <peewee_zz> Do I have permission to mod pentagram?
[18:11:56] <Dark-Star> not really, they're still adding some magic values to the row/column pairs (0xa1), ant that's only for code set 1, EUC supports up to 4 code sets
[18:12:06] <wjp> peewee_zz: pentagram is licensed under the GPL
[18:12:34] <peewee_zz> O.k. so simply credit where credit is due... provide source?
[18:12:35] <wjp> Dark-Star: is there any logic to the JIS->unicode mapping?
[18:12:41] <Dark-Star> katakana for example are in code set 2 where you have some escape-byte to indicate that the following 2 or 3 bytes are to be interpreted from code set 2 (or 3)
[18:13:27] <wjp> peewee_zz: pretty much
[18:13:42] <Dark-Star> I remember reading about sjis->unicode conversion in the unicode standard, IIRC they have defined some compatibility code points to ease that transistion, but I don't recall the actual algorithm
[18:14:03] <wjp> I'm just using a conversion table currently
[18:14:18] <wjp> (see misc/encoding.cpp)
[18:14:52] <Dark-Star> hm... I'll have to check the standard again sometime...
[18:15:49] <Dark-Star> but now I'm busy getting pentagram to compile... I forgot that pentagram doesn't come with MSVC project files so I'm currently re-creating them from scratch since my old installation is gone...
[18:16:39] <peewee_zz> wjp: O.k. so my next question. I only have a trial version of mIRC. Is there any kind of general e-mail I can send miscellaneous questions to for the pentegram team?
[18:16:55] <wjp> pentagram-devel@lists.sourceforge.net
[18:17:06] <wjp> there are also free IRC clients, by the way
[18:17:47] <Dark-Star> ...re-adding the msvc_include.h which I once had, fixing a warning or two (not counting the hundreds of "this stuff is deprecated, please use MS's cool functions" warnings)
[18:18:48] <peewee_zz> wjp: last question and I'm outa your hair so you guys can get to your really important work. (which everyone really appreciates by the way)
[18:19:29] <Dark-Star> wjp: I can send a patch if you're interested, after I got everything to compile. I'd even "support" the patch to some extent, since I'll have to update the project from time to time anyway
[18:19:53] <wjp> Dark-Star: hm, you'll have to talk to Colourless about msvc stuff
[18:20:00] <peewee_zz> wjp: I'm developing a u8 mmorpg, except with no more than about 50 players per server. My 2 possible gameplay
[18:20:39] <peewee_zz> wjp:.. options are A: where one of the players is randomly chosen as the Avatar and when he completes the game the server resets. Everyone else is a citizen and does as they please.
[18:21:00] <peewee_zz> wjp:.. B: A new island on the same world with the same spell sets and no avatar
[18:22:21] <peewee_zz> wjp: (sorry I'm used to shift+enter making a new line, don't mean to flood) do you guys have any preference? I had one person give preference to option a
[18:23:19] <wjp> it kind of sounds like a bad idea to have the state of the world depend on a single player
[18:23:26] <Dark-Star> Option A sounds fun, but I don't know how easy it would be to add client/server functionality to pentagram. probably still easier than starting from scratch, though
[18:24:00] <peewee_zz> The thing I'd like to do is have mostly option b servers but a single option a server for kicks
[18:25:41] <peewee_zz> The real point of the project is a real time MMORPG without cushy rules like having to run to special area's for PK'ing. Like law would be determined by moderators who play the wizard and the tempest and catch crimes as they see them. Also if you die you die. It's really only been done on MUD's and i think the awesomely eerie environment and innovative control/magic system in U8 is screaming for this kind of mmorpg
[18:30:08] <peewee_zz> O.k. I've asked my 3 questions or great Lithos. I humbly draw myself back to tenebrea to await your response. (I'll be monitoring the chat history and e-mail that general account with any more questions) Thanks and take this pile of oil flasks as homage.. ~peewee_zz lights oil flasks and activates recall item~
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[18:30:28] * wjp grins
[18:30:43] <wjp> Cheat::toggleInvincibility
[19:08:15] <Dark-Star> I just submitted the first part of the MSVC patches to the tracker (not the actual project files yet, though)
[20:15:02] <Dark-Star> what does the SAFE_CONSOLE_STREAMS #define do? I.e. should I enable it on windows?
[20:19:32] <wjp> it has something to do with initialization order
[20:19:51] <wjp> if for some reason the perr/pout objects have to be created after some other objects in the standard library, it has to be set
[20:20:20] <wjp> I'm not sure which standard C++ libraries need it
[20:24:07] <wjp> the commit logs hint at pocketpc
[20:29:07] <Dark-Star> ah okay, then I'll better leave it undefined, because everything works fine without it
[20:30:13] <Dark-Star> however, I'm only getting garbage characters on the japanese version, do I have to enable something for it to work?
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[22:52:32] <wjp> garbage characters? hmm
[22:53:29] <wjp> try 'ttf=false' in the config file, just in case
[23:01:52] <wjp> in what way exactly are they garbage?
[23:02:29] <wjp> roman characters instead of japanese? random pixels? wrong japanese characters?
[23:17:27] <wjp> is the properly detected as the japanese version? It should give the game details after 'Selected game: ' in stdout
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[23:17:42] <wjp> It should read: Ultima VIII: Pagan, Japanese, version 2.12, md5 304a315f7a436d18397c4ec544585f7e
[23:17:49] <wjp> hi Ryan
[23:44:21] <Colourless> hi
[23:47:56] <Colourless> people want msvc stuff?
[23:52:54] * Dark-Star raises hand
[23:53:34] <Dark-Star> wjp: roman characters (like ÚŔ and the like)
[23:53:43] <Dark-Star> the md5 is correct
[23:56:38] <Dark-Star> see here: http://www.regengedanken.de/~mdrueing/images/u8jap.jpg
[23:58:52] <Colourless> i'll commit all my stuff to svn.