#pentagram@irc.freenode.net logs for 14 Mar 2012 (GMT)

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[16:17:44] * ShadowChaser waves
[16:24:46] <ShadowChaser> I was thinking abit about Pentagram lately - is it effectively feature complete, or are there certain things still remaining to be completed?
[16:24:47] * Dominus waves back
[16:24:50] <Dominus> but am gone
[16:25:59] <ShadowChaser> In the past there's been a bit of discussion about supported platforms/etc - "more is better" - but I was wondering if there was some sort of official list or goals. The same with supported compilers and stdlibs
[16:26:14] <Dominus> a lot of things are quirky
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[16:48:24] <ShadowChaser> brb
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[17:17:13] <Dominus> yeah, I just love my flaky wlan here...
[17:17:42] <Dominus> ShadowChaser: I'm not sure what you meant with the supported platforms discussions
[17:18:10] <Dominus> we are mostly open to any platform, as long as we get patches
[17:18:28] <Dominus> of course the main platofrms are Windows, Linux, OS X
[17:18:53] <Dominus> everything else might work, depending on how good SDL works
[17:24:09] <ShadowChaser> Just was thinking in terms of long term code maintenance. Ie/ do we support Windows CE or older platforms forever - where's the cut off or core focus?
[17:24:21] <ShadowChaser> Not that its a problem right now, just curious :)
[17:24:51] <Dominus> I think it's "when we get there we think about it" :)
[17:25:36] <Dominus> if we break CE support and someone complains and it it is easy to resupport I guess we'd do that
[17:26:01] <Dominus> if it complicates things we'd need to talk about whether we'd still support it
[17:26:10] <Dominus> nothing set in stone :)
[17:28:53] * ShadowChaser nods :)
[17:29:46] <ShadowChaser> Any idea why the project went for custom RTTI?
[17:30:16] <Dominus> we had a similar talk last year with Exult when Malignant Manor worried whether recent changes would break on PocketPC. The PocketPC porter just shrugged and tried his hands on porting to iOS
[17:30:22] <Dominus> RTTI?
[17:31:10] <ShadowChaser> ie/ "ENABLE_RUNTIME_CLASSTYPE();" and p_dynamic_cast versus the standard-compliant/built-in dynamic_cast
[17:31:49] <Dominus> who did it and when? Chances are either wjp or Colourless know :)
[17:31:58] <ShadowChaser> I think it was there from day 1 :)
[17:32:22] <Dominus> ah, I thought you wrote "switched to" but you didn't :)
[17:32:41] <ShadowChaser> I've been playing alot with C++11 now, which is why I noticed it ;)
[17:33:14] <Colourless> while the runtime classtype was initially intended to only be a replacement for RTTI and dynamic_cast, it expanded its scope and is now a component of the savegame system
[17:33:42] <ShadowChaser> Ahhh - a bit more like serialization, then?
[17:33:47] <Colourless> PocketPC support never worked properly and at this point in time i don't care
[17:33:58] <Dominus> he he
[17:34:07] <Colourless> its used to provide the class names used by the savegame system
[17:34:40] * ShadowChaser nods
[17:36:21] <ShadowChaser> (likely a bit contentious asking this, but..) Any idea why you guys went for GPL over a permissive license? The existing Exult code base?
[17:36:47] <Colourless> initial pentagram project used a lot of existing exult code.
[17:37:06] <Colourless> the initial project was map viewer, usecode disassembler, etc
[17:37:29] <Colourless> the second project (actual game engine) used some code from the initial project
[17:37:32] <wjp> is there anything you want to do with pentagram you can't due to licensing?
[17:37:42] <ShadowChaser> There's no way to dual license at this point? I've found myself wanting to do a lot more architecture work on Pentagram, but to be honest I'm not a big fan of the GPL - doing a lot of work on reusable code and having it locked from myself on other projects
[17:38:04] <ShadowChaser> It's more the other way around - I have my own projects and code that might help Pentagram
[17:38:22] <ShadowChaser> Or if I write something for Pentagram or come up with an interesting idea, I can't use it myself
[17:38:37] <wjp> code you write yourself is yours to use as you wish
[17:39:05] <wjp> including it in pentagram has no influence on that
[17:40:58] <Colourless> if pentagram was dual licensed you still need to be able to comply with BOTH licenses
[17:41:23] <Colourless> pentagram and exult also integrate code from other GPL projects BTW
[17:42:07] <ShadowChaser> Ah, I don't know too much about dual licensing. Other GPL dependencies wouldn't be too much of a problem though, the open source community is gravitating towards inclusive apache/bsd licenses
[17:43:22] <ShadowChaser> Only discussing it out of curiosity and thinking about my own desire to work on the project - I'm not big on politics and I didn't know the history behind the project :)
[17:43:27] <wjp> anyway, I don't much like talking about this in the abstract
[17:44:41] * ShadowChaser nods
[17:44:55] <ShadowChaser> Would you consider porting to another license, or are you against it in principle?
[17:45:10] <Colourless> can't, wont
[17:45:28] <wjp> that sounds awfully much like an abstract topic ;-)
[17:45:45] <ShadowChaser> I thought it was fairly specific, hehe. ;)
[17:46:43] <Dominus> thinking about perhaps changing the license out of no specific need? sounds abstract
[17:47:25] <Dominus> same as the above short discussion about supported platofrms. When we get there and there is need to discuss it, we probably will
[17:48:20] <Dominus> and as Colourless wrote, with us using so much other GPLed code, this is probably not much to discuss anyway...
[17:48:24] <Dominus> dinner time
[17:48:57] * ShadowChaser nods
[17:51:36] <ShadowChaser> I've been working on portable projects of my own - mainly with "C++11" techniques. Using abstract base classes and inheritance for platform-level support rather than #ifdefs deep in the code. A good chunk of it is a clean, reusable library. I help out with Pentagram occasionally, and work on my own project gets me thinking about Pentagram's architecture. Thats where the questions come from :)
[17:57:41] <ShadowChaser> It's also hard to work on Pentagram without a list specific goals, supported platforms, and supported compilers. I can't second guess myself all the time. "Does this need to work on Windows 95? An old Linux kernel? Old versions of the standard library? A older buggy release of GCC? Mobile platforms I've never heard of that were popular 7 years ago?".
[17:58:10] <ShadowChaser> :)
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