#pentagram@irc.freenode.net logs for 16 Dec 2003 (GMT)

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[02:59:14] <watt> 12 wookies are eating my brain.... meh..
[04:59:08] <watt> breakdancing chihuahuas are setting themselves on fire and giving me funny looks.
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[07:23:20] <Cashman> whats happening for new years, anyone doing anything real out of it
[07:23:32] <Cashman> hmmm should be some good parties
[07:24:08] * Cashman slaps watt around a bit with a large trout
[07:24:11] <Cashman> what s up
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[11:09:22] --> Colourless has joined #Pentagram
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[11:09:44] <Colourless> hi
[11:26:17] <Ember> Greetings.
[11:26:25] --- Ember is now known as Darke
[11:26:33] --- ChanServ gives channel operator status to Darke
[11:26:42] <Colourless> my favourite drag... grrr, my least favourite bunny actually it looks
[11:36:34] * Darke preens. Thanks, I know you love me, really. *grin*
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[12:25:03] <wjp> hi
[12:25:39] <Darke> Greetings.
[12:25:50] <Colourless> greetings oh great leader
[12:26:12] * Darke bows to worship The Majestic WJP.
[12:36:08] <wjp> umm...
[12:41:33] --> Cashman has joined #pentagram
[12:42:20] * Darke errects a statue to His Greatness, The WJP!
[12:42:36] --> saddam has joined #pentagram
[12:42:46] <saddam> HEEEEEEEEEERES SADDAMY
[12:43:07] <Cashman> is that u kyle?
[12:43:14] <saddam> yep
[12:43:18] <saddam> i mean
[12:43:19] <saddam> no
[12:43:20] <saddam> its saddam
[12:43:28] <Cashman> u fief getting 8mile 4 free heh
[12:43:31] <saddam> heh
[12:43:33] <Cashman> nah just kidding
[12:43:36] <saddam> I STOLE IRAQ FOR FREE TO
[12:43:49] <Cashman> so u got stuff ready 4 new years, should be some good parties aye
[12:44:07] <Cashman> getting the weed,chicks etc. sorted
[12:44:13] <Cashman> dont know where its gonna be yet
[12:44:18] <Cashman> hmm
[12:44:41] <Cashman> saddam u ever play ultima8?
[12:44:54] <saddam> nope
[12:44:56] <saddam> what is it
[12:45:07] <Cashman> not played any ultima games?!
[12:45:16] <Cashman> Hey Darke - hows the cisco going?
[12:45:17] <saddam> never
[12:45:31] <Cashman> k
[12:45:40] <saddam> fuick
[12:45:43] <saddam> needa reboot
[12:45:53] <-- saddam has left IRC (Client Quit)
[12:46:00] <Cashman> ok
[12:46:07] <Cashman> hmmm random person
[12:46:14] --- Cashman is now known as P4R4DOX
[12:46:21] * P4R4DOX ownz
[12:46:37] <P4R4DOX> oops there is only one p4r4dox and it aint me aaaaah
[12:46:38] <P4R4DOX> zap
[12:46:42] --- P4R4DOX is now known as Pastolls
[12:46:55] <Darke> Cisco isn't too bad, though I really should be studying for my classes tommorrow, atm. *grin*
[12:47:34] <Pastolls> real :-)
[12:47:38] <Pastolls> good luck
[12:48:25] <Pastolls> http://www.weebl.jolt.co.uk
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[13:29:52] <Colourless> when you enter an area full of creatures that are petrified, you should probably be more than just a little bit concerned.
[13:30:53] <Colourless> of course oddly enough, petrification seems to wear off after a while for PCs
[13:31:00] <Darke> It's generally good to assume the "Beware of the Medusa" sign has been taken down for cleaning.
[13:31:04] * Colourless has already be petrified once in NWN
[13:32:37] <Darke> Hrm... isn't there also some sort of 'temporary' petrification in 3rd Ed too? I'm probably just confusing it with something from one of the n-thousand 'Options' books for 2nd-ed rereleased.
[13:33:07] <wjp> what petrified you?
[13:33:19] <Colourless> basilisk
[13:34:22] <Colourless> using Petrification Gaze i think
[13:35:55] <wjp> hm, I'd have to look up if that's supposed to be permanent but I would guess so
[13:36:23] <wjp> probably done because you have no party that could stone-to-flesh you
[13:36:57] <Colourless> yeah. I know of a few things they have changed because you effectively go solo
[13:37:18] <wjp> respawns? :-)
[13:37:26] <Colourless> :-)
[13:38:07] <Colourless> respawning is actually to do with the multiplayer nature rather than being solo :-)
[13:38:17] <Colourless> PvP multiplayer that is
[13:38:29] <Colourless> doesn't make much sense in Coop multiplayer
[13:38:49] <Colourless> in Shadows of Undrentide, you can only respawn in the first chapter
[13:39:31] <wjp> does that go for henchmen too?
[13:39:49] <Colourless> yes :-)
[13:40:01] <Colourless> henchmen though never really die
[13:40:18] <Colourless> they sort of become invulnerable once they hit 1 hp
[13:40:36] <Colourless> of course they are unconcious and healing them brrings them back to life
[13:41:14] <Colourless> they can be killed though if they are hit enough times while they are lying on the ground
[13:41:23] <wjp> a bit like 'real' D&D3rd, I guess
[13:41:35] <wjp> you go unconscious when you go below 0 hitpoints
[13:41:38] <wjp> and die when you hit -10
[13:42:35] <Colourless> sounds lke U7 :-)
[13:45:10] <wjp> hm, weird stuff with the 1.60 patch
[13:45:30] <wjp> apparently it was released but it has been pulled now
[13:47:31] <Colourless> odd
[13:49:03] <wjp> http://nwn.bioware.com/forums/viewtopic.html?topic=293622&forum=77
[13:49:59] <wjp> I think I'll go see if I can buy the 1st expansion somewhere
[13:50:07] <wjp> will probably get the second too while I'm at it :-)
[13:51:06] <Colourless> wouldn't be the first time they screwed up a patch. One of the early ones pretty much prevented everyone from playing the game due to copy protection
[13:52:12] <Colourless> XP1 at least comes with stuff for installing on linux
[13:52:28] <Colourless> i imagine that XP2 would too
[13:52:29] <wjp> although I think I read the install scripts on the cd were broken
[13:52:40] <wjp> no, xp2 doesn't have linux support out-of-the-box
[13:52:51] <Colourless> :-)
[13:52:53] <wjp> linux support for it should be included in the upcoming 1.60
[13:52:59] <wjp> "should" :-)
[13:53:01] <Colourless> ah well, can't have everything :-)
[13:53:24] <wjp> as long as it's done after I finish XP1 I don't have a problem with it :-)
[13:53:37] <wjp> or maybe s/after/before/ is better :-)
[13:53:43] <Colourless> who knows, you might need to make that 1.61 :-)
[13:54:09] <wjp> anyway, time to go
[13:54:22] <-- wjp has left IRC ("bbl")
[13:54:44] <Colourless> funny statistic. More copies of XP1 were sold than of the original game :-)
[13:55:07] <Colourless> cya
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[14:43:47] * wjp is back, and the proud owner of SoU and HotU :-)
[14:44:03] <Colourless> wb :-)
[14:44:09] <wjp> thanks :-)
[14:46:49] <Colourless> there are lots of changes in the 1.60 patch. One of the forum posts has the changelist
[14:47:27] <Colourless> supposedly the reason it got pulled was because it was broken with NWN Gold
[14:47:55] <Colourless> most of the changes seem to be toolset related though
[14:48:10] <wjp> I'm mostly interested in the accompanying linux binary :-)
[14:49:01] <Colourless> i wonder why :-)
[14:49:48] <wjp> do you have a url for that changelog post?
[14:50:30] <wjp> those forums have pages and pages of topic since 1.60 was released :-)
[14:50:33] <wjp> s/topic/topics/
[14:50:51] <Colourless> yep
[14:50:54] <Colourless> http://nwn.bioware.com/forums/viewtopic.html?topic=293761&forum=77
[14:51:13] <wjp> ah, I was at least in the right forum (77) :-)
[14:51:34] <Colourless> doesn't seem to be that many topics. But the bioware site is really really slow for me
[14:51:45] <Colourless> so navigating it is kind of a pain :-)
[14:52:12] <wjp> yes... trying every topic which could be relevant would take quite a while :-)
[14:53:11] <wjp> wow, the aurora-changelog is huge
[14:53:15] <Colourless> - Fixed a bug with opening inventory while container is opened on top of open inventory, inventory was open but had no items.
[14:53:42] <wjp> I also had that happen when I didn't have a container open
[14:53:48] <Colourless> so have i
[14:54:19] <Colourless> not sure if it's be problem we experienced, but it sounds similarish enough
[14:54:41] <wjp> yes, it does sound like it
[14:54:58] <Colourless> s/be/the/
[14:58:35] <Colourless> what i want to know is. Why can you get the second expansion in .nl and i can't get it yet in .au
[14:59:29] <wjp> well, .nl is a much bigger country than .au, of course ;-P
[14:59:49] <Colourless> define 'bigger' :-)
[15:00:05] <Colourless> bigger population, yes. Bigger area, no :-)
[15:00:16] <wjp> our population is larger?
[15:00:27] <wjp> at 16M?
[15:00:36] <Colourless> i don't actually no.
[15:00:50] * Colourless says ignore that comment of mine
[15:01:04] <Colourless> our population is 20M
[15:01:08] <wjp> yes
[15:01:32] <wjp> this googled webpage agrees :-)
[15:02:13] <Colourless> is your english language version?
[15:02:21] <wjp> I certainly hope so
[15:04:41] * wjp wonders if the .au version has to be translated? :-)
[15:06:06] <Colourless> NWN only supports one version of english
[15:06:24] <wjp> it is a european version, though
[15:06:44] <wjp> the box states there are quickstarts in a few scandinavian languages
[15:07:31] <wjp> (my NWN manual has sections in danish, swedish, norwegian too, btw)
[15:09:54] <Colourless> hehe. Some of the mirror sites still have 1.60 on them :-)
[15:10:04] <wjp> yeah, the forum posts hint at that
[15:10:12] <Colourless> http://www.fileshack.com/browse.x?cat=163
[15:10:47] <Colourless> holy crap! 65 mb!
[15:10:56] <Colourless> for SoU to 1.60
[15:11:00] <wjp> the HotU one is smaller
[15:11:21] <Colourless> i'm thinking that however is the entire critical rebuild file
[15:11:31] <Colourless> rather than a rtpatch
[15:12:02] <Colourless> i... think i'll just wait :-)
[15:12:44] <Colourless> not much point downloading the SoU 1.60 patch when i'll be getting HotU soon enough, and i'll need to redownload the patch
[15:13:30] <wjp> now, let's see about installing SoU
[15:16:27] <wjp> my cd drive is making some really scary noises
[15:20:44] <wjp> now, where did they hide that cd key this time
[15:21:03] <wjp> last time it was on the manual, but there's no manual with SoU :-)
[15:21:40] <Colourless> jewel case?
[15:22:17] <wjp> found it on a sticker under the cd
[15:22:18] <Colourless> the PDF manual that comes with SoU is.... how do i say this.... somewhat 'unfinished'
[15:22:26] <wjp> dvd case
[15:23:17] <wjp> now, it seems I've been un-patched
[15:23:27] <Colourless> So, did it come in a box, or was it just a dvd case?
[15:23:32] <wjp> just a dvd case
[15:23:38] <wjp> both SoU and HotU
[15:23:43] <wjp> NWN itself came in a box
[15:23:49] <Colourless> yes, you get unpatched :-)
[15:24:06] <Colourless> which is kind of stoopid
[15:24:29] <Colourless> i had 1.32 NWN, then got SoU and ended up with 1.29 or something
[15:24:55] <wjp> I think I have 1.30 now
[15:25:34] <wjp> yay, another 38Mb patch
[15:27:36] <Colourless> from what i understand. HotU is sort of a continuation of the original campaign of sorts. Even though i don't think the stories are related
[15:28:04] <wjp> the starting level you mentioned yesterday is the same as the NWN OC ending level, at least
[15:29:03] <Colourless> some of the characters (Linu i know for sure) are also in HotU
[15:30:26] <Colourless> HotU also contains some control changes
[15:30:54] <Colourless> camera control is unlocked so you can play the game from a more conventional 3rd person perspective
[15:31:12] <wjp> which perspective is that? :-)
[15:32:12] <Colourless> over the shoulder and behind
[15:32:31] <wjp> ah, so less from above?
[15:32:50] <wjp> (lower 'angle of elevation', or whatever the english term is?)
[15:33:02] <Colourless> yes
[15:33:18] <Colourless> yes
[15:33:23] <wjp> :-)
[15:33:47] <Colourless> you can use a console command to unlock the camera in nwn and sou too
[15:34:35] <wjp> ok, I'm at 1.32 again
[15:34:52] <Colourless> :-)
[16:28:52] <-- Kirben has left IRC ("System Meltdown")
[16:31:25] <Colourless> ok just playing around then I know what the inventory bug was that they fixed. Have your inventory open. Then open a container. Then press 'I'
[16:31:43] <Colourless> which doesn't seem to be the bug we've had
[16:32:40] <wjp> ah, I see
[16:32:49] <wjp> no, that's most likely a different one
[16:33:02] <wjp> cause might just be the same, though
[16:33:59] <Colourless> in real DND3, what are poison and disease supposed to do
[16:35:48] <wjp> only encountered poison so far, and that causes ability damage
[16:36:17] <Colourless> which is what happens in NWN
[16:36:31] <wjp> it's probably varies, but the poison we encountered caused a few points of temporary constitution damage at first
[16:36:40] <wjp> and a few rounds later a point of permanent constitution damage
[16:36:51] <wjp> (note that 'permanent' isn't really permanent)
[16:37:07] <Colourless> different poisons do different skill damage
[16:37:26] <wjp> being a paladin, I didn't have much trouble with disease in NWN :-)
[16:37:55] <Colourless> here i'm fighting a number of different spiders (wraith, sword and dire) and i end up getting con and str 'damage'
[16:38:59] <Colourless> s/skill/ability/
[16:39:17] <wjp> hm, I'd probably need a Dungeon Master's Guide to look up poison/disease in 'real' D&D
[16:39:35] <Colourless> after one fight i ended up with 3 str :-)
[16:39:49] <wjp> ouch
[16:40:43] <Colourless> rest cures the ability damage cause by poison
[16:41:04] <Colourless> or you could use a lesser restoration spell
[16:41:20] <wjp> rest and lesser restoration heal temporary ability damage
[16:41:39] <wjp> I think they're healed a lot faster than they should be, though, in NWN
[16:42:11] <wjp> fully healing when resting is another NWN 'tweak', btw
[16:42:38] <Colourless> i guessed that :-)
[16:43:11] <wjp> and lesser restoration 'should' only heal 1d4 points of damage, IIRC
[16:43:11] <Colourless> sort of devalues clerics
[16:45:00] <Colourless> hmm. that inventory bug we had and the fixed one might be related
[16:46:04] <Colourless> of course i don't know of a reliable way of triggering the one we had
[16:46:28] <Colourless> the reason i say they might be related is because just then my inventory wouldn't show
[16:46:40] <Colourless> then i decided to trigger the other bug.
[16:46:46] <Colourless> then my inventory decided to show again
[16:51:05] <wjp> interesting
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[17:28:46] <wjp> there sure are a lot of modules available for NWN :-)
[17:51:30] <wjp> bbl, dinner
[17:58:00] <Knight> Hey..
[17:58:04] <Knight> for those interested...
[17:58:24] <Knight> i found project at sf, an engine that runs fallout..
[17:58:36] <Knight> I will allow modules ;)
[17:58:38] <Knight> sounds nice
[18:01:19] <Knight> http://ianout.nma-fallout.com/
[18:17:46] <wjp> does it actually run fallout?
[18:18:05] <wjp> it sounds more like a fallout-like engine that's moddable
[18:22:53] * wjp downloads source
[18:23:00] <wjp> it claims to be 99% linux-compatible
[18:23:28] <wjp> or 99% portable to linux, to be exact
[18:23:50] <Knight> mmm it runs with the fallout files..
[18:23:58] <Knight> i downloaded it
[18:24:22] <Knight> it should be able to run fallout if it could read the maps file, etc..
[18:25:00] <wjp> hm, lua, boost, zlib, tinyxml all seem to be included in the source zip
[18:25:04] <wjp> no wonder it's so big
[18:26:02] <Knight> I can't believe what i just read..
[18:26:11] <Knight> interplay decided to dissolve black isle?
[18:26:42] <wjp> that's why fallout 3 was cancelled, wasn't it ?
[18:27:06] <Knight> yup, or something like that..
[18:27:35] <Knight> but i just can't believe they are dissolving one of the best rpg dev teams in history
[18:28:06] <Knight> And cancelling THE BEST RPG SEQUEL EVER...
[18:28:16] <wjp> hm, include case errors
[18:28:19] <wjp> dozens of them
[18:28:36] <Knight> I saw some screenshots, it was going to be amaizing
[18:28:49] <wjp> and internally inconsistent, too
[18:28:54] <Knight> i downloaded the binary for windows only
[18:29:09] <wjp> yes, that won't help me much
[18:29:13] <Knight> wjp, maybe you can code it better :)
[18:29:37] <Colourless> case sensitive filesystems.... so not user friendly
[18:30:52] <Knight> heheh there's your 0.01 % incompatible :p
[18:34:18] <wjp> ok, I give up
[18:38:40] <Knight> lol..
[18:38:41] <Knight> why?
[18:38:57] <wjp> too many case problems
[18:40:24] <Knight> give a try..
[18:40:26] <Knight> come on ;)
[18:40:35] <Knight> maybe it's worth a new project :D
[18:45:21] <wjp> hehe: Added some safety checks to the CD checking code. Hopefully this will prevent
[18:45:22] <wjp> silly messages from Windows asking you to insert your NWN CD into your hard drive. Doing this might void your hard drive's warranty.
[18:45:46] <wjp> (NWN v1.32 patch)
[18:46:07] <Colourless> :-)
[19:00:10] <Knight> lol
[19:10:18] <-- Knight has left IRC (" HydraIRC -> http://www.hydrairc.com <- Chicks dig it")
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[20:17:09] --- ChanServ gives channel operator status to Dominus
[20:17:37] <Dominus> hi
[20:17:57] <Dominus> as this seems the designated NWN channel, I want to remind you NWN players of the mod by Tseramed
[20:17:59] <Colourless> hi
[20:18:10] <Dominus> uh.. Ken Demarest
[20:18:31] <Colourless> if it's the one in the hall of fame... i'm sure people wouldn't miss it :-)
[20:19:05] <Dominus> I posted ages ago on our foeum
[20:19:10] <Dominus> forum I mean
[20:19:56] * Colourless wonders if someone was paranoid. He walked into a house and found 2x cloak of protections +2, and a amulet of natural armour +5
[20:20:44] <Dominus> I have to admit I played a highly cheated character with insanely cheated inventory....
[20:21:37] <Dominus> only problem is that I can't find my backup of that data... yet....
[20:27:38] <Colourless> wjp, i think i've found our problem, at least one instance of it. Seems repeatable too, and it looks like it might be the same as the other
[20:28:07] <Colourless> This is what i was doing. Go into inventory. open a container. Use Esc to close it all. When you next press "i" you will have nothing
[20:51:10] <wjp> hm, indeed
[20:51:19] <wjp> I use escape all the time, so this could very well be it
[20:51:56] <Dominus> can't remember that from the time I was playing it
[20:52:35] <Dominus> maybe it used to work with earlier versions and is a regression :-)
[21:35:38] <wjp> hm, module by Tseramed?
[21:35:52] <Dominus> search our forum :-)
[21:36:03] <wjp> I found it in the nwvault hall of fame
[21:36:33] <wjp> level of players - 7 to 15
[21:36:46] <wjp> hm, now where do I find a level 7 character?
[21:37:02] <wjp> can you export a character in mid-game?
[21:37:15] <Dominus> yes
[21:37:33] <wjp> good thing I have a save at the start of chapter two, then :-)
[21:37:50] <Dominus> you keep too many saves :-)
[21:37:57] <wjp> I deleted most of them
[21:38:06] <wjp> only have the start-of-chapter ones left now
[21:38:30] <Dominus> yeah, those are the important ones
[21:38:47] <Dominus> I only kept the ones of the chapter I was playing
[21:39:02] <wjp> I had 1.2Gb of saves at the end :-)
[21:39:27] <wjp> down to 160Mb now
[21:39:50] <wjp> hmm... the file to download is an .exe
[21:40:32] <Dominus> you can try renaming it to zip or rar
[21:40:57] <wjp> renaming it is fairly pointless :-)
[21:41:03] <wjp> you mean unzipping it or unrarring it, probably :-)
[21:41:37] <Dominus> uh, yes :-)
[21:42:43] <wjp> yes, it does seem to be a zip
[21:43:05] <wjp> with two .txt files, a .mod, a .hak and another .exe
[21:45:23] <Dominus> I wonder what the 2nd exe is about
[21:46:03] <wjp> hm, I guess the .mod goes into the nwn/modules directory
[21:46:29] <wjp> any idea where the .hak goes?
[21:46:49] <wjp> there are no other .hak files in my nwn directory it seems
[21:47:34] <Dominus> hmm, sorry, been a while since I played a mod and I don't have thNWN stuff installed right now
[21:48:05] <Dominus> I think the hak is supposed to replace the original one.
[21:48:10] <Dominus> not sure though
[21:48:38] * wjp hits self
[21:48:43] <wjp> the 'hak' directory might be a good place :-)
[21:49:27] <Dominus> hmm, you think? :-)
[21:49:47] <wjp> but unfortunately it still complains about not finding it
[21:50:32] <Dominus> there is something you got to do, but I don't remember
[21:50:37] <wjp> case issue
[21:50:45] <wjp> it tries to open foreboding.hak
[21:50:48] <wjp> I have Foreboding.hak :-)
[21:50:52] <Dominus> ignore me then :-)
[21:51:12] <wjp> gotta love strace :-)
[21:51:29] <Dominus> whoever caused the case issue problem should be shot
[21:51:29] <wjp> system call tracer; shows (among other things) exactly which files it's trying to open
[21:51:33] * Dominus aims at MS
[21:52:55] <wjp> heh, cute... at the start you're talking to Tseramed
[21:53:05] <wjp> he examined my level and thinks I'm a little too low-level
[21:53:13] <wjp> so he offers to level me up a few times :-)
[21:53:46] <wjp> I guess I'll just export a higher level version of my char
[21:55:51] <wjp> ack, you keep all the junk in your inventory :-)
[21:56:00] <Dominus> hehe
[21:56:23] <Dominus> some mods just discard of this when importing one
[21:56:42] <Dominus> only the "official" game took the junk over for me
[22:03:14] <wjp> the module has fishing rods and bait?! :-)
[22:03:31] <Dominus> it has?
[22:03:32] <-- Colourless has left IRC (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out))
[22:03:42] <Dominus> I never got around to actually playing it :-)
[22:04:20] <wjp> yay, I caught a fish :-)
[22:05:15] <wjp> this particular fish was worth 140gp :-)
[22:05:50] <Dominus> good fish
[22:06:42] <wjp> 'rainbow trout' :-)
[22:07:26] <Dominus> sounds yummy, I once ate a maki called "rainbow roll" :-)
[22:08:14] <wjp> hmm.. a condemned house, labelled "do not enter"
[22:08:16] * wjp enters
[22:08:57] <Dominus> noooooooooooooooo
[22:09:04] <Dominus> *sniff
[22:10:48] <wjp> "These catapults for military use only. Do not fire"
[22:11:00] * wjp accidentally fires the catapults. Oops
[22:11:04] <Dominus> he he
[22:23:07] <wjp> you can sit down on couches :-)
[22:23:14] <Dominus> he he
[22:27:07] <wjp> hm, maybe I shouldn't have sold that Rainbow Trout
[22:27:23] <wjp> there's a book here that says eating it does something
[22:27:38] <Dominus> that's classical
[22:27:50] <Dominus> the "maybe I should not have sold..."
[22:27:56] <wjp> caught another one now
[22:29:40] <wjp> "I caught an empty ale stein"
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