#pentagram@irc.freenode.net logs for 16 Jul 2004 (GMT)

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[07:42:19] <Colourless> hi
[07:45:22] <wjp> hi
[09:44:49] <Sectus> hi
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[13:46:46] --- Ember is now known as Darke
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[13:47:21] <wjp> hi Darke
[13:47:30] <Darke> Greetings.
[13:50:16] * Darke wonders if 'ambiguously defined define' is sufficiently ambiguous for an error message?
[14:00:49] <wjp> oh, sure :-)
[14:06:17] * Darke changes it to 'invalid define', which is less of a tongue twister and one less word. *grin*
[14:31:02] * Darke decides that while said error is a bit confusing, it has nothing compared to 'expected unqualified-id'. which gcc just spat out in reference to a missing {. *grin*
[14:41:25] * Darke thinks he's *finally* getting the hang of parsing human input in a way that doesn't do the whole fall-over-and-die thing whenever it encountered particularly bad abuses of the programming language. Humans are annoying, they are. *indignantfluff*
[14:54:16] <wjp> heh, I'm sure bunnies write much better code ;-)
[14:55:25] * Darke isn't so sure about that sometimes. *earscratch*
[14:57:42] * Darke still isn't sure if it's the case the that pascal simply makes No Sense at all, or that his mind is simply defensivly blocking the understanding of said language in order to spare his remaining fragments of sanity.
[14:58:02] <wjp> hm, pascal isn't that bad, is it?
[15:00:04] <Darke> wjp, meet pascal's semicolon. pascal's semicolon meet wjp.
[15:00:35] <wjp> you mean the lack of semicolons after end-of-block statements? :-)
[15:01:03] <wjp> it's been a while since I worked with pascal/delphi, though, so my memory is a bit fuzzy
[15:03:07] <Darke> Yup. There's also places where you can not use a ; (the last statement in a block? can't remember, have removed most of these things when I trip over them), and other places that seem to require them inconsistantly.
[15:04:11] <wjp> it's fairly consistent as far as I know
[15:04:58] <wjp> it's just that you need to separate statements with a ; instead of close statements with a ;
[15:05:33] * Darke suspects it is. But that this pascal parser he's reworking seems to have a few bugs in that respect.
[15:05:53] <wjp> but since an empty statement is also a valid statement, that can cause confusing bugs in places
[15:07:34] <Darke> Yup.
[15:09:54] <Darke> The whole 'string length is part of the datatype' business was also frustrating until I realised it was there and viciously removed such stupidity.
[15:13:36] <Darke> The concept of code like `char astr[8]; strcpy(astr, "astr");` failing because the string you're copying into it is *smaller* then the available space, is far more annoying after spending the better part of a day trying to debug your code thinking you've added a bug, rather then illogicality of the language spec, then if you're actually using the language. *grin*
[15:15:15] <-- Kirben has left IRC ("Sleep")
[15:18:17] * Darke returns to griping about his code, rather then others. *grin*
[15:48:25] <wjp> uh oh
[15:48:28] <wjp> that was stupid
[15:49:12] * wjp should remind himself to think before running potentially destructive commands
[15:49:49] <Colourless> you must tell
[15:49:52] <Darke> Umm... yeah. Always a good idea.
[15:50:16] <wjp> I just ran a 'screen -wipe' on a different machine than the one my exultbot and irssi screens are running on
[15:50:31] <wjp> meaning this irssi and exultbot are now in an interesting situation
[15:51:19] <wjp> hm, I'll fix it after dinner
[15:51:23] <wjp> (bbl)
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[16:32:40] <wjp> right, all better now :-)
[16:58:50] <Darke> Yayth.
[17:48:12] <Colourless> time for me to go
[17:48:14] <Colourless> cya
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[18:50:12] <avatar_58> hey
[18:51:19] <avatar_58> anyone alive in here or just me?
[18:52:22] * avatar_58 begins to talk to himself about life
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[20:39:11] --> interzone has joined #pentagram
[20:39:17] <interzone> hi everybody
[20:39:41] <interzone> I have compiled the today pentagram CVS for zaurus to test it..
[20:40:28] <interzone> I send a email to Ryan Nunn , cause I don't find any contact on pentagram page..
[20:40:46] <sbx> he left for the day
[20:40:56] <interzone> ok..
[20:41:12] <interzone> you are a member of Pentagram team?
[20:41:24] <sbx> no
[20:41:27] <sbx> wjp is
[20:41:55] <interzone> I think they might been interested, on running pentagram on zaurus..
[20:42:12] <interzone> I put an archive on my webpage, for anyone who want to test it..
[20:42:31] <interzone> It runs quite well actually, only the control keys are problematic..
[20:44:15] <interzone> perhaps, I should better come back, when member of pentagram team are here..
[20:44:46] <sbx> wjp is always here
[20:44:59] <interzone> yes, but actually he seams to be dead..
[20:45:10] <interzone> or not listening to us..
[20:45:16] * sbx pokes wjp.
[20:46:15] <sbx> ...sometimes it takes a while
[20:46:40] <interzone> no problemo..
[20:46:43] <interzone> I have time actually...
[21:28:52] <sbx> ill bbl
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[22:44:23] <watt> zaurus huh? Seems a little early, but eh.
[22:47:39] <watt> I think I figured out how to handle targeted jumping. TargetedActorAnimProcess - I'm thinking it would just perform ActorAnimProcess' run() and then if the frame last played has the off ground flag then do a collide move in the required direction.
[22:48:38] <watt> although, I'm assuming the the collideMove done for the frame isn't immediately processed on screen....hmmmm
[23:02:06] <interzone> hi watt...still here
[23:02:59] <watt> hello!
[23:03:10] <interzone> in fact , it's juste a test, to see if the zaurus, was enough powerfull to make it run,
[23:03:24] <interzone> but actually, it doesn't have any interest..
[23:04:09] <interzone> but...i have put the archive on my website if soemone want to try it..
[23:04:23] <interzone> http://inter.zon.free.fr/pentagram.tgz
[23:04:45] <watt> what were the results - I don't own a zaurus, I could only speculate
[23:05:23] <interzone> actually the speed is ok. very similar to exult on Zaurus. Only the audio is shuttering a little bit..
[23:05:30] <interzone> I have try with timidity audio..
[23:06:15] <interzone> but the scrolling, and actor movements speed are the same than when playing ultima8
[23:06:21] <interzone> on my old computer..
[23:06:26] <watt> neat
[23:06:50] <interzone> does someone of the dev team has a zaurus ?
[23:07:44] <watt> No idea. hmmm... who maintains exult's zaurus stuff?
[23:08:30] <interzone> I don"t known who maintain it. I have ported some software on Zaurus, before. XU4, scummvm, and some other software...
[23:08:55] <interzone> the only problem to resolve to make a working port, is how to control the character with the stylus
[23:08:59] <interzone> and the control keys
[23:09:09] <interzone> I don't know if it's possible..
[23:09:35] <watt> Artaxerxes is maintaining exult's zaurus port, it appears..
[23:09:49] <interzone> for exult, it's simplier, because, there is no targeted jumping..
[23:10:06] <watt> Any ideas are very welcome
[23:10:21] <interzone> the stylus on Zaurus, is the left mouse button, so dragging object , from inventory, and things like that works well
[23:10:38] <watt> I was thinking direct keyboard controls for movement for a while.
[23:11:12] <watt> not sure how much that would help Zaurus users
[23:11:27] <interzone> it could be the solution for Zaurus, but for jumping, I don't know if it can be done only with the keys
[23:11:44] <watt> not targetted jumping....
[23:12:22] <interzone> or perhaps the stylus can be used as the right mouse button,
[23:12:42] <interzone> and when pressing a key, it could be the left one..
[23:12:43] <watt> another option could be a mod key to make the stylus act as right mouse and another mod for both...
[23:12:50] <watt> right.
[23:12:52] <interzone> exactly..
[23:13:02] <interzone> this is the only solution I think, on Zaurus..
[23:13:04] <watt> but it'd be damn hard to control
[23:13:30] <interzone> perhaps, it could be an option in config file,
[23:13:35] <interzone> to make a test if it work..
[23:13:40] <watt> thinking running jumps would be a bit insane
[23:14:38] <interzone> running jumps are don't use so much no ?
[23:15:35] <watt> It's not necessary to do it during the game.. mostly.
[23:15:53] <interzone> I will look at the source file, to make a try to invert left an righ key, from sdl..
[23:16:06] <interzone> to try, if moving with the stylus, is easy..
[23:16:30] <watt> We could always attempt a diablo-ish pathfinding. click somewhere and the avatar simply moves there if possible.
[23:17:06] <interzone> it would be cool. Actually Ultima4 and exult are running on the Zaurus.
[23:17:11] <interzone> I have compiled Nuvie also..
[23:17:22] <interzone> if Pentagram could work, it would be cool..
[23:17:37] <watt> I agree.
[23:17:51] <interzone> I have also Ultima5 running on my zaurus, with a PC emulator I am coding..
[23:18:03] <interzone> but, I haven't released it yet...
[23:18:11] <interzone> Has it is full of bugs..
[23:19:34] <interzone> perhaps a mod key, that invert left and right button, is enough to make it work on Zaurus..
[23:19:53] <interzone> I will try the two solutions...
[23:19:57] <interzone> jumping is a double click, no ?
[23:20:14] <interzone> it is possible to replace jumping , by a single key?
[23:20:35] <interzone> for example , click on the target with stylus, and space
[23:21:20] <watt> jumping is a right and left at the same time, or a left while running .
[23:22:16] <interzone> yes that's right..sorry. Is it possible you think, to replace the two buttons by a key?
[23:22:21] <watt> and to run, you need the right mouse down.
[23:22:43] <interzone> like that, we can choose the arrow form with stylus, for a short or long jump
[23:22:49] <interzone> and press that button..
[23:23:08] <watt> possible.
[23:23:27] <interzone> it should no work for running at the same time..
[23:23:37] <watt> I'd suggest adding it as a feature request on the sf site.
[23:23:39] <interzone> but should work in most of the cases
[23:24:37] <interzone> I will try it on my zaurus, if it is implemented
[23:24:53] <interzone> If I find another way, I will tell you..
[23:25:20] <interzone> When you will be relasing a beta, or something like that, I can do the zaurus port.
[23:25:50] <interzone> Do you think, a beta is near ? What part are missing actually of the engine ?
[23:28:03] <watt> I'm not exactly sure how long that will be.... I think we want combat to be working and we should work on the menus a bit.
[23:28:29] <watt> Sound effects would be nice too.
[23:29:00] <watt> but I don't know what the current plans are before we dub it semi-playable
[23:30:22] <interzone> ok. I must go. I will come back , discussing here, if I find other ways for controlling on Zaurus. And to let you know of my experiments.
[23:30:38] <interzone> If the button, for jumping can be implemented,
[23:30:41] <interzone> even as an option,
[23:30:49] <interzone> It should help I think..
[23:30:56] <interzone> good bye. see you..
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