#pentagram@irc.freenode.net logs for 17 Jan 2005 (GMT)

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[14:20:58] <sbx> hi WattAtWork
[14:27:16] <WattAtWork> howdy
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[21:58:07] <gruck> There seems to be no end to the number of weird and wonderful places you can fall through the floor in Ultima 8...
[21:58:18] <gruck> and become hopelessly stuck...
[21:58:37] <sbx> hi gruck
[21:58:56] <gruck> Hows it going?
[21:59:04] <wjp> hm, falling through the floor?
[21:59:05] <sbx> ok
[21:59:07] <wjp> in u8 or in pentagram?
[21:59:26] <gruck> Both actually... But in U8 you seem to have to try harder to get stuck
[21:59:28] <wjp> I don't think I've seen it more than once or twice
[21:59:29] <sbx> I've done that. :)
[21:59:51] <wjp> and the times I've seen it in pentagram were caused by things like explosions knocking out the floor (oops) :-)
[22:00:17] <gruck> I've gotten stuck in the Plateau, during the Necromancer test, on the way to see the Mountain King
[22:00:32] <gruck> and somewhere in the Lower Catacombs
[22:00:49] <wjp> how's your C++? :-)
[22:00:52] <gruck> All by falling through the floor. I got and test the same places in U8 and if you try real hard you can fall through there too...
[22:01:10] <wjp> ah, I think I know why it's harder in U8
[22:01:19] <sbx> In Crusader the floor tiles could get blown out by explosions.
[22:01:23] <gruck> Me? I'm doing a masters in Pharmacology... so non-existant.
[22:01:26] <wjp> pentagram doesn't try to step 'around' holes yet
[22:01:33] <sbx> hehe
[22:01:37] <wjp> or around walls
[22:02:02] <wjp> the original can move you a couple of pixels to the side when you would otherwise hit a wall or fall
[22:02:17] <gruck> That is likely the issue
[22:02:24] <wjp> that _really_ bugged me when I was trying to get down the opened grave in the Shrine
[22:02:38] <wjp> (in the original u8)
[22:02:47] <gruck> yeah, I had the same experience earlie today too.
[22:02:48] <wjp> it was virtually impossible to fall down there...
[22:03:03] <gruck> There was a big snowstorm today so I couldn't get into work. Thus I've been very bored.
[22:03:10] <wjp> I resorted to casting air walk and jumping into the hole from the opposite side of the room
[22:03:27] <gruck> In U8 I had to sprint right at the hole to fall down.
[22:03:31] <wjp> (you can't jump into a hole post-patch, since the targeted jumping won't let you... *sigh* :-) )
[22:03:39] <gruck> From the other side of the screen, it was kind of silly
[22:03:59] <wjp> I actually lost hit points from that airwalk-into-wall :-)
[22:04:16] <gruck> As you have probably noticed I have been horribly violating the bugtracker
[22:04:39] <wjp> um
[22:04:41] * wjp looks
[22:04:53] <wjp> yikes
[22:05:01] <gruck> maybe I should stop...
[22:05:17] <wjp> feel free to continue :-)
[22:05:51] <gruck> I have a question, after visiting the Mountain King the first time and interring Lothian, when I return to the Mountain King should he be willing to speak with me again?
[22:06:17] <gruck> I haven't gotten that far in u8 yet, but in Pentagram he does not.
[22:07:40] <wjp> doesn't he tell you not to appear before him again until you're the necromancer yourself?
[22:07:52] <wjp> (when he sends you away to inter Lothian)
[22:08:16] <gruck> Maybe that is it... the U8 plot can get kind of hard to follow at time...
[22:08:18] <wjp> you can drag beds?
[22:08:34] <gruck> Yep, I was quite surprised...
[22:10:17] <wjp> damage from campfire is already working
[22:10:34] <wjp> the function handling hits is incomplete, though
[22:10:40] <wjp> it doesn't handle any special effects at all
[22:10:48] <wjp> (falling back, stepping back, sound effects, blood, ...)
[22:11:08] <gruck> Yeah, I only realized later so I stopped posting those.
[22:11:27] <wjp> hm, I'm trying to figure out which word you mean by 'sherk'
[22:11:44] <wjp> it rings a bell, and I know what you mean, but I can't think of the correct spelling, it seems :-)
[22:12:02] <wjp> shirk maybe?
[22:12:18] <gruck> That would be it...
[22:12:32] <wjp> jumping... now that dragging has range checks, handling jumping range checks should be easy
[22:12:54] <wjp> inventory placement should indeed be random
[22:13:00] <gruck> Though no jumping checks sure makes testing easier...
[22:13:07] <wjp> I haven't been able to figure out at which point it should be randomized though
[22:13:13] <gruck> ahh...
[22:13:15] <wjp> will work on that sometime :-)
[22:13:57] <wjp> closing backpack... I hope that'll automagically work once I implemented 'close all gumps' (backspace should do that too)
[22:14:09] <wjp> if it doesn't, well... um... let's hope it does :-)
[22:14:30] <wjp> stealing... hmm... line of sight should be working, so that shouldn't be too hard to fix currently
[22:14:50] <gruck> Hey, its not like I'm grilling you folks or anything...
[22:14:53] <wjp> we already know which flag indicates that an item is owned, and what to do when somebody notices you
[22:15:13] <wjp> bug reports are always welcome :-)
[22:15:35] <gruck> What would be great is if the game didn't come to a near standstill of more then about 2 creatures are trying to pathfind at one time...
[22:15:52] <wjp> yeah, monster pathfinding is really hackish currently
[22:16:00] <wjp> they re-pathfind completely whenever you move
[22:16:24] <wjp> changelings... ugh... not looking forward to that :/
[22:16:45] <gruck> They'll be bastards?
[22:16:48] <wjp> lightning bolts... really?
[22:17:04] <wjp> do you have a savegame around there?
[22:17:12] <wjp> or maybe I can just teleport there
[22:17:30] <gruck> Nope, I'm further on now... and there is only one savegame slot
[22:17:43] <wjp> there's an infinite number, actually :-)
[22:17:48] <gruck> Miraculously I haven't saved in a place where I'm about to fall in water yet...
[22:17:52] <wjp> you just have to use the console to save/load to use them
[22:18:18] <gruck> I'm not sure I understand...
[22:18:20] <wjp> gruck: in that case you'll want to enable frame-by-frame mode before loading so that it starts in a paused state, and then use a teleport console command :-)
[22:18:35] <wjp> but if you already hit the water you're toast :-)
[22:18:57] <wjp> to save: open the console (~), type "GUIApp::savegame filename"
[22:19:23] <wjp> to load: open the console and type "GUIApp::loadgame filename"
[22:19:41] <wjp> (or G<tab>s<tab> and G<tab>l<tab>
[22:20:07] <wjp> the quicksave's filename is 'quicksave'
[22:20:38] <wjp> schedules... hm, didn't I finish implementing those? weird
[22:21:02] <gruck> ech, a ghoul killed me when I was here on MIRC...
[22:21:05] <wjp> they're supposed to be triggered every hour or so, if I remember correctly... will fix soon
[22:21:42] <wjp> a guard in the catacombs? ugh, I wonder how that happened... *sigh*
[22:21:54] <wjp> gruck: you certainly have been busy :-)
[22:21:58] <gruck> I was equally confused when he appeared...
[22:22:41] <wjp> dragging corpses... I wonder if that's because we treat them as monsters
[22:22:53] <wjp> might have to add a 'not dead' check somewhere
[22:23:07] <wjp> I do seem to remember you can't drag all corpses though... (trolls, mainly)
[22:23:28] <gruck> I'm uncertain about trolls. You can definately drag ghouls and skeletons and bugs
[22:23:31] <servus> Don't all things have a weight, like in Ultima VII?
[22:23:41] <gruck> in U8
[22:23:42] <wjp> yeah, I'm hoping it's weight-related
[22:23:54] <wjp> might fix beds too
[22:24:48] <wjp> speaking of beds... I should be going
[22:25:14] <gruck> have fun with that
[22:30:59] <gruck> Now I haven't gotten a chance to explore the Maze of Death properly... but is there any other purpose then to make my life miserable?
[22:31:53] <servus> I beat Ultima VIII twice, but I don't remember any maze of death.
[22:32:59] <gruck> Ahh...I see where I was confused now... I found a map of U8
[22:33:49] <gruck> There is a sign when you exit the map where the heart of Earth is buried that says Maze of Death. Apparantly that is also the Lower Catacombs
[22:34:16] <sbx> you guys need some more command aliases
[22:35:20] <gruck> So the Lower Catacombs have two exits... I always remember the Lower Catacombs as that place I just avoid
[22:35:58] <sbx> oh I didn't notice wjp left
[22:36:10] <servus> You mean the birthplace of Moriens?
[22:36:54] <gruck> I thought that was the Zealan shrines. Its been about 8 years since I played U8. I remember most everything, but I'm a little foggy on a few locations
[22:37:32] <gruck> I believe there is an exit to the Birthplace of Moriens and to the Lower Catacombs from the Upper Catacomb
[22:37:46] <gruck> But I'm of course a tad clueless...
[22:39:39] <gruck> There we go, found the Birthplace...
[22:43:26] <gruck> Ahh... The Skull of Quakes, I can never remember what that thing does...
[22:43:33] <servus> Nothing.
[22:43:46] <servus> It's mentioned by Lady Mordea in a note near Devon though.
[22:44:14] <gruck> Thats what I thought... I remember lugging it through the whole game and never using it. I read that note
[22:47:32] <sbx> Pointless item in Fallout2: The extra inflatable sex doll.
[22:47:47] <servus> What about the first one, then?
[22:48:40] <sbx> You can give it to a ghoul that wants it, but I forgot what you get in exchange.
[22:49:37] <thehawk> Ten thousand useless caps.
[22:49:56] <thehawk> Or some hugenormous number of them.
[22:50:13] <sbx> hello
[22:50:13] <sbx> 10,000?!
[22:50:36] <sbx> caps are like gold
[22:50:36] <sbx> or was that fallout1
[22:50:54] <thehawk> *nods* The currency for Fallout1.
[22:51:10] <sbx> hehe
[22:55:44] <gruck> Hmm... it looks like I killed the marble staircase puzzle...
[23:04:16] <gruck> Question, in the Stair step puzzle in the Birthplace of Moriens should it be possible to screw up the puzzle by getting the wrong number of blocks?
[23:04:26] <gruck> Uhmm... I probably need to clarify that...
[23:05:40] <servus> the tower of hanoi puzzle?
[23:06:38] <gruck> yes, thats the one
[23:07:12] <gruck> Yeah half way through the puzzle I somehow get 5 pieces instead of the starting 4, making the puzzle impossible.
[23:07:58] <gruck> Yeah I think there is a bug somewhere in there...
[23:13:20] <WattAtWork> hmmm.... command aliases... how about alias command?
[23:17:04] <WattAtWork> although, It'd need to make sure the alias disappears when the original command is gone.
[23:17:31] <WattAtWork> ... or maybe not... might depend on how it's coded
[23:17:50] <sbx> You have a few already?
[23:17:50] <sbx> You have a few already.*
[23:17:51] <sbx> Right?
[23:17:59] <sbx> At least, you have some "global" commands.
[23:18:42] <sbx> You can just pretend the user typed the non-existant command.
[23:18:57] <sbx> savegame, loadgame
[23:19:29] * WattAtWork shrugs.... my brain is stir-fry right now.. It's time to go home
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[23:21:24] <thehawk> Is there a relatively easy way (as in, something I can do, rather than requiring a programmer) to talk Pentagram into dumping a tile type map in some usable (again, by me) form?
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[23:29:34] <gruck> Shouldn't the three funny statues talk to you a second time after defeating Khumash-Gor? (spelling?)
[23:34:25] <gruck> Ahh... thats what the skull of Quakes does... if you use it in the Upper Catacombs it opens up a doorway to a teleporter I never knew of before... nifty.
[23:42:17] <servus> I always wanted to find Praecor Loth but noooooooooo.
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