#pentagram@irc.freenode.net logs for 18 Nov 2002 (GMT)

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[11:52:44] <Colourless> so you figured out the line numbers yet?
[11:56:21] <Darke> Nope. I just decided to implement the 'hackish' way of doing it, on a case by case basis ("oh, it gave an assertion, ah it's a linenum problem, *cut & paste code* works now"). It's only a 'prettyness' thing anyway, and can be worried about later once I've got important things like, I don't know, if statements and such working properly? *grin*
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[12:22:05] * Darke just spent the last two hours searching for a memory corruption somewhere, only to find that it wasn't a 'problem', it was simply a case of everything working _perfectly_. It was just that the code for his 'it works perfectly' condition was wrong. He's not sure if that's ironic, or just dumb.
[12:22:50] <Colourless> sounds like you are just a normal programmer :-)
[12:26:13] <Darke> Actually, it turns out the code was correct, it was _just_ not in the wrong place (by about 4 lines and one indentation level). *grin*
[12:26:46] <Colourless> care to re-phrase that ;-)
[12:28:12] <Darke> No, not really. It pretty much sums up my mind for the night. *grin*
[12:28:22] <Darke> Sounds like this entire conversation should be in the quotes file. *grin*
[12:29:03] <Colourless> you do realize that it makes no sense at all, but then again, as you said...
[12:29:42] <Darke> Oh, yes, I do realise it makes no sense at all, doing a s/wrong/right/ will make it make sense, but it's certanily appropriate. *Grin*
[12:30:24] * Darke thinks we should encrypt out quotes file. With PGP/GPG.
[12:30:37] <Darke> s/out/our/
[12:30:53] <Darke> Gee... my typing's getting almost as bad as your's tonight Colourless. *grin*
[12:31:07] <Colourless> no, that is not possible, you can never match me.
[12:31:16] <Colourless> we would need to include the public key in the source file though
[12:31:24] <Colourless> s/public/private/
[12:32:06] <Colourless> but none the less, i agree
[12:32:08] <Darke> Yep. *grin*
[12:32:34] <Darke> I'd only do it for the "anything you can do, I can do better" factor. *grin*
[12:33:02] <Colourless> well, i really wouldn't want to be an observer of the conversation
[12:34:55] * Darke figures we can always use the excuse of linking the GPG libraries to do digitally signed packages and such. Rather then actually linking with it solely for the perverse pleasure of being... well... perverse. *Grin*
[12:36:27] <Colourless> hehe
[12:36:57] <Colourless> digitally sign the flex files or something silly
[12:37:10] <Darke> Yup. *grin*
[12:39:10] * Darke thinks the above is probably worthy of inclusion into the quotes file, but can't really put it in himself, since he kinda said it. *grin*
[12:40:24] <Colourless> :-)
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[16:11:04] <Darke> Random thought: The maximum number of bytes that can be used for local variables is 128. Max used in remorse (and strangely enough in regret) is 66, and in pagan2.13, 61.
[16:11:47] <Colourless> probably the same func in both TGWDS
[16:11:54] <Darke> On that note, I wonder if there are multiple usecode functions identical between remorse/regret, if they are, we can just figure out one of them, and the other will logically be identical. *grin*
[16:12:16] <Darke> Ug I'm incoherent, with respect to intrinsics that is. *grin*
[16:12:26] <Colourless> :-)
[16:12:31] <Colourless> yes i have thought of that
[16:13:02] <Colourless> i really want to know if crusader has Item::Bark like u8
[16:13:26] * Darke considers it's a pity that all the versions of remorse/regret we've got don't have useful debugging information. *grin*
[16:13:49] <Colourless> if it does and we can use it to figure out other functions by hacking the usecode
[16:14:08] <Colourless> we know 'enough' of the usecode to write so called usecode asm
[16:14:33] <Colourless> now, what might be 'really
[16:14:46] <Colourless> ' useful is some of the utility funcs might be the same as u8
[16:15:02] <Darke> I can't think of anywhere where you 'click' on something to get a bit of floating text. The closest thing we have is a 'book' output from the computers.
[16:15:26] <Darke> That would be useful, yes. *grin* Doubtful though.
[16:15:31] <Colourless> yeah, that would be a variation on the 'Text' gump
[16:15:46] <Colourless> well, ultima 8 had a utility func that was used to terminate processes
[16:16:43] * Darke has been trying to get fold to duplicate the output of the usecode to be identical to the input, so we could make a 'simple' front end to it to read text-asm rather then binary-asm, exactly for that purpose. *grin*
[16:17:47] <Colourless> the problem with hacking the usecode is we'd need to create an unlinker too
[16:17:54] <Colourless> and then relink after assembling
[16:18:15] <Colourless> this is not a problem that hacking ultima7 usecode has :-)
[16:19:22] <Darke> How do you mean? I'm sure if we always made our functions smaller then the original function, we can just pad them with 79's. *grin*
[16:20:05] <Colourless> yes that 'would' work
[16:20:19] <Colourless> like what i did to u8 to test out what removing a process exclude opcode did :-)
[16:20:27] <Darke> Yup. *grin*
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[16:36:18] * Darke bleahs. Did he mention he hates line number opcodes?
[16:36:34] <Colourless> i belive he has
[16:36:58] <Colourless> add an 'e' where required
[16:37:59] <Darke> "Please consult your English Tutor if problems persist."
[16:38:10] <Colourless> hehe
[16:38:31] <Colourless> now that one *is* being quoted
[16:40:06] <Darke> You do realise that both phrasings are more then likely regionalisms common only to Australia (and .au TV ads in specific), thus quite a few people are unlikely to 'get' it? *grin*
[16:40:08] <Colourless> think i might add your other one as well, but of course snipped a bit to make it just a tad strange out of context
[16:40:31] <Colourless> i care not what others think :-)
[16:40:43] * Darke guessed. *grin*
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[16:47:50] * Darke ponders an algorthm that will get those wretched linenum ops out of the way and written back out in the proper order. The nodes attached to the line numbers will of course bear only coincidental association with said line number. He suspects it'll get the Pentagram Pathetic Programming(tm) award for the rest of the decade though because of it.
[16:48:28] <Colourless> hmm, how often should the PPP be awarded?
[16:49:50] <Darke> On an ad hoc basis of course. *grin*
[16:49:55] <Colourless> :-)
[16:50:04] <Colourless> sounds like a challenge
[16:52:25] <Darke> Not really. It's easy to make a cruddy algorythm, it's hard to make one that doesn't look like it's the thing the dog dragged in (though in this case it's the bunny).
[16:56:26] * Darke thinks wjp is unusually silent. We must have stunned him with our witty parte, or something. *grin*
[16:57:25] <Colourless> i think his 'program' is stuck waiting for a reply from fingolfin in #exult
[16:57:40] <Darke> Either that or he coredumped trying to parse my s/right/wrong/ sentence as he's reading the logs from earlier. *grin*
[16:59:16] <wjp> actually, I'm toying a bit with povray
[16:59:20] <wjp> http://www.math.leidenuniv.nl/~wpalenst/sol4_ss.png
[17:00:03] <wjp> (i.e., some homework-avoiding behaviour)
[17:00:35] * Darke ooohs and ropes wjp into making the new artwork for pentagram. He'll be our 'ropes and stuff' art-guy. *grin*
[17:00:59] <Colourless> it's a... something...
[17:01:01] * Darke notes the pun was, surprisingly enough, accidental. *grin*
[17:01:10] <wjp> it's an approximation of a solenoid
[17:01:14] <Colourless> oh yes i'm just sure it was Darke
[17:01:59] <Colourless> puns and you are always just coincidental
[17:02:12] <Darke> Colourless: Sorry, I'm too tired to make them on purpose at the moment. Besides I used up all my creative genius earlier. *grin*
[17:02:57] <Colourless> sounds like the prefect time for you to do some coding
[17:04:09] <Darke> Actually, I'm doing the 'artsy' stuff now, trying to make unk's output look vaguely 'pretty'. Or at least not directly offensive to the eyes.
[17:04:41] <Colourless> only offensive to the mind then?
[17:06:31] <Darke> Only if you consider something that 'looks' like C/C++ to be offensive to the mind, yes. *grin*
[17:06:56] <Colourless> could be worse, could be actual usecode
[17:07:09] <Colourless> not that we *know* what usecode looked like
[17:08:46] <Darke> Depends upon how you define 'know'. *grin* We know quite a bit as to how the language is structured, just from the line numbers in remorse's functions.
[17:10:36] <Darke> We 'know' there was only one class per file, and there is quite a bit of 'boiler plate' at the start of every class (about 15 lines worth, presumably copywrite statements and external declarations, and global variables and such), and there is little boiler plate heading for each function, so a function implementation is going to look more like C's then Pascal's.
[17:14:09] <Darke> Making a function call (`funcName(param1, param2, param3)`) is going to look almost identical between unk and C, since they wouldn't have wanted to go to too much effort to mung the C names from the .map (or whatever) file to unk's representation.
[17:26:14] * Darke yawns and decides sleep time it is. You shall have to be bereft of his pithy comments, and be subjected to naught but beautiful^Wannoying silence 'til the morrow. Night!
[17:26:25] <Colourless> cya
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