#pentagram@irc.freenode.net logs for 19 Jan 2005 (GMT)

Archive Today Yesterday Tomorrow
Pentagram homepage


[00:34:05] <-- servus has left IRC (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer))
[00:34:09] --> servus_ has joined #pentagram
[02:56:29] <watt> ah.. Actor::ACT_DEAD... what a great flag name.
[02:56:59] <watt> I'm not dead yet, only acting... hehe
[03:32:38] <-- Kirben has left IRC (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer))
[04:14:03] <watt> Well, haven't heard any opposition to the navbar... guess I'll commit it
[04:19:30] <sbx> I concur.
[04:28:56] <watt> Yeah, I like it
[04:55:23] --- sbx is now known as sbx|afk
[05:34:11] <-- Chetic has left IRC (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer))
[05:34:18] --> Chetic has joined #pentagram
[05:35:52] --> Kirben has joined #pentagram
[05:35:52] --- ChanServ gives channel operator status to Kirben
[06:24:58] <watt> hmm.. not quite enough luck making a good replacement for the title image on the webpage.. sigh... have one that looks cool, but not quite right
[06:25:27] <servus_> I made one that I thought looked very cool.. ;-)
[06:29:35] <Chetic> wjp, No not OK.. I was sleeping and this bastard connection kept doing things behind my back :p
[06:30:32] <servus_> Does Ultima 8 support slopes? It doesn't, right? It's all shape-based?
[06:30:50] <Colourless> no slopes
[06:30:59] <Colourless> toough it may look like it
[06:31:55] <servus_> I used to think Doom supported slopes, but I wondered why they only used it in this secret hallway in the first level of the first episode... but it turns out that the entire hallway was an elevator and you just couldn't tell. I was pretty bummed out.
[06:48:35] <Colourless> oh no. the 15th of January Update on the pentagram site was missed
[08:40:24] <wjp> yeah... not enough updates between 5 and 15
[08:40:32] <wjp> there'll be one on the 25th again
[08:41:08] <Colourless> :-)
[12:46:40] <-- Kirben has left IRC ("System Meltdown")
[15:19:57] <-- Colourless has left IRC ("casts improved invisibility")
[15:34:10] --> WattAtWork has joined #pentagram
[16:03:04] --> Fl00der has joined #pentagram
[18:12:50] --- sbx|afk is now known as sbx
[18:20:31] <wjp> ugh... statues not talking for the second time seems to be caused by the fastarea being too large
[18:30:25] <WattAtWork> bummer.
[18:33:39] <wjp> well, we'll be running in 320x200 eventually anyway
[18:34:52] <wjp> we'll just have to make it clear that running in higher resolutions _will_ break things :-)
[18:41:22] <WattAtWork> no neat hacks?
[18:42:22] <WattAtWork> I'd really rather not run 320x200 (even with scalers)
[18:44:11] <wjp> it would be rather hard to make sure the hack works properly
[18:45:14] <sbx> Why can't you pretend it's 320x200?
[18:45:31] <sbx> For Exult people have suggested grayscaling the area outside 320x200, and avoid activating anything in that area.
[18:46:09] <sbx> The grayscale is just like a fog-of-war so people are clear why things seem to appear oddly in it.
[18:46:47] <sbx> Actually, if you like 800x600 you probably want things all the way to screen edge behaving normally.
[18:46:51] * sbx shrugs.
[19:57:56] <-- Fl00der has left IRC (":P")
[20:18:03] <wjp> funny... I had the weight unit wrong
[20:18:21] <wjp> or at least for items with quantities
[20:18:34] <wjp> and reagents are another special case
[20:21:18] <wjp> hm, and keys probably too...
[20:21:31] <wjp> or the keyring, in fact
[20:21:40] <wjp> I think that was supposed to have constant weight
[20:51:43] --> gruck has joined #pentagram
[20:53:54] <gruck> So I wasn't completely crazy about those statues!
[20:54:21] <wjp> you can 'avoid' the bug by going around the bottom when entering and around the top when leaving :-)
[20:54:32] <wjp> there are two eggs there to cover the full width of the room
[20:54:53] <wjp> you might be able to avoid triggering one of them when entering
[20:55:48] <gruck> I'll have to try that...
[20:57:16] <wjp> not sure if it'll work, though
[21:06:33] * wjp hmms
[21:06:49] <wjp> I wonder if weight-zero items should be undraggable
[21:09:44] <sbx> Is dragging the same as moving?
[21:09:54] <gruck> It is to me
[21:11:07] <wjp> dragging is moving by the player
[21:11:19] <wjp> it's quite possible that the engine itself moves undraggable items
[21:11:31] <wjp> (platforms, doors, etc.)
[21:11:48] <gruck> ahh...
[21:14:12] <wjp> well, this seems to work at first glance
[21:14:30] <wjp> I guess I'll commit it and see if anyone complains about not being able to move some plot-critical item :-)
[21:16:28] <wjp> fixes both beds and floor tiles
[21:16:40] <wjp> 13 left :-)
[21:17:13] <sbx> I knew you could move bedrolls.
[21:17:31] <sbx> I mean thought you could.
[21:17:40] <wjp> yes, you can
[21:17:45] <wjp> but you shouldn't be able to move beds
[21:19:07] <sbx> U8 was annoying how many unmovable objects there are. But you couldn't move beds in U7 either.
[21:27:09] <gruck> uhoh... Torwin doesn't appear when I should confront him on Windy Point
[21:27:43] <gruck> The avatar is doing a monologue of all the things he should say when confronting Torwin, the cutscene is progressing but Towin isn't there...
[21:28:07] <gruck> 14 left :)
[21:28:12] <wjp> eh? interesting
[21:28:17] <wjp> last time I tried that it worked
[21:28:43] <wjp> I hope you have a savegame :-)
[21:29:04] <gruck> I just saved one now
[21:29:20] <gruck> All you have to do is climb up the slope and you start the cutscene without Torwin
[21:29:25] <wjp> k
[21:31:49] <gruck> submitted
[21:32:55] <gruck> Ack, what the smeg!
[21:33:01] <gruck> upon restoring my game Torwin is back!
[21:33:13] <gruck> But he wasn't there the first time...
[21:33:25] <wjp> it's possible it's schedule-related
[21:34:36] <gruck> It seems perhaps if you go directly from the healing of the Torax to confronting Torwin without leaving the map Torwin won't move... but if you save and restore he will...
[21:34:45] <gruck> Or something like that...
[21:34:58] <wjp> hm, saving/restoring shouldn't affect anything like this
[21:35:09] <wjp> could be a bug in the restore function, of course
[21:35:38] <sbx> this is really interesting
[21:36:14] <wjp> ah
[21:36:26] <wjp> it looks like the load function calls schedule() on all NPCs
[21:36:39] <gruck> That would probably be it...
[21:37:26] <sbx> but that doesn't resolve the bug does it?
[21:37:27] <wjp> so it's a side-effect of the 'Avatar should not have to leave map for schedule change' bug
[21:37:40] <wjp> or maybe not
[21:37:56] <gruck> That was my first thought. But I know nothing of the inner workings of these things
[21:37:58] <wjp> I seem to remember Torwin::schedule() is manually called
[21:38:03] <wjp> hmmm
[21:38:14] * wjp looks at ChangeLog
[21:39:00] <wjp> do you have a savegame further back?
[21:39:08] <wjp> before talking to Cyrrus?
[21:40:37] <wjp> another console command:
[21:40:41] <wjp> ObjectManager::objectInfo 46
[21:40:41] <gruck> Sadly no :(
[21:40:48] <wjp> that'll dump Torwin's current location
[21:41:04] <wjp> but without a savegame that won't help, I guess :-)
[21:41:13] <wjp> ah well, we'll run into that one again
[21:42:09] <gruck> One more question, how is the airwalk spell suppose to work? I'm trying to visit Stratos and I keep airwalking myself right to the bottom of the ocean/
[21:42:17] <wjp> s/46/26/
[21:42:39] <wjp> did the theurgists tell you you were reading to take the leap?
[21:42:45] <wjp> s/reading/ready/
[21:43:00] <gruck> ahh no they didn't yet... I guess I'm cheating
[21:43:24] <wjp> there's a usecode egg at the pillars that manually enables airwalk mode when the right flag is set
[21:44:13] <wjp> hm, wait a sec
[21:44:20] * sbx suggests saving every 10 minutes in a new slot.
[21:44:42] <wjp> so you said the Avatar did start the 'cutscene' where Torwin was going to jump but Torwin wasn't there?
[21:44:51] <gruck> Exactly.
[21:45:14] <gruck> SBX: I'd suggest you're right
[21:45:33] <wjp> I once had a long list of savegames through the entire game... *sigh*
[21:45:37] <sbx> If you don't mind using the diskspace.
[21:45:43] <wjp> then I upgraded the savegame format so they became useless :-)
[21:45:59] <gruck> I have 35 free gigs on a 40 gig hardrive. So not a problem
[21:46:01] <sbx> hehe
[21:47:31] <sbx> You can delete most of them later and have a nice archive of savegames... but you'll probably have to delete all of them because the savegame format will be "upgraded" again.
[21:48:35] <gruck> hmm... is there a way to teleport to a specific actor? Stellos has went incognito on me
[21:48:59] <wjp> most peculiar... that Torwin scene can't start unless Torwin is near
[21:49:26] <gruck> There he is...
[21:49:54] <wjp> maybe Torwin fell through the floor or something :-)
[21:50:05] <gruck> haha
[21:51:37] <wjp> hm, Stellos' z coordinate is -9 million in your savegame
[21:51:53] <wjp> and rapidly falling :-)
[21:52:04] <gruck> That could potentially be aproblem. I had to fastforeward an hour and dave and restore to fond him again
[21:52:32] <sbx> maybe if you wait the sign will reset and he will fall from the sky
[21:52:45] <gruck> That would entertain me greatly
[21:53:01] <wjp> that is pretty much what would happen, yes :-)
[21:53:31] <wjp> he's at minus 900 million now
[21:53:39] <wjp> only about one billion left :-)
[21:54:04] <wjp> good thing his speed is quadratic in time
[21:54:07] <WattAtWork> good thing we don't have falling damage :-)
[21:54:43] <wjp> minus 2 billion...
[21:54:52] <gruck> O.K. air walk worked just fine...
[21:54:54] <wjp> ok, it wrapped
[21:55:09] <wjp> oh, but he stopped falling now :/
[21:55:33] <gruck> But of course if air walk is still active it is impossible to jump from pillar to pillar.
[21:55:46] <sbx> Where is he?
[21:55:52] <wjp> air walk should stop immediately after the first jump
[21:56:17] <wjp> Stellos is somewhere far above the well
[21:56:39] <gruck> Airwalk does not stop after the first jump...
[21:56:46] <wjp> oh?
[21:57:11] <gruck> I do the big leap from the two pillars. After that I still jump funny and have a glowing blue light around me
[21:57:26] <gruck> For about 10 seconds...
[21:58:15] <gruck> Stealing the Breath of Wind makes me so happy...
[21:59:23] <gruck> Hmm... shouldn't Stratos tell me off after stealing the breath of wind?
[22:00:11] <WattAtWork> stealing the breath before endgame?
[22:00:37] <gruck> I like to get my evil in early...
[22:01:22] <wjp> glowing blue light?
[22:01:28] <WattAtWork> doesn't that cause a plot hole? or is it just that you can't use it on stratos before the end?
[22:01:46] <wjp> oh, you mean you actually cast airwalk, and was already far past the leap of faith?
[22:01:57] <gruck> wjp: yes
[22:02:02] <gruck> Watt: I don't know
[22:02:10] <wjp> then you'll indeed have to wait for airwalk to wear off
[22:02:37] <wjp> anyway, it seems we have a problem with npcs falling through the ground :/
[22:02:38] <WattAtWork> now that I think about it, stealing it is ok... using it.. bad.
[22:02:52] <wjp> no, stealing it already robs the theurgists of their powers
[22:03:01] <wjp> that doesn't qualify as good, I'm afraid :-)
[22:07:12] <gruck> Well.. I've got to go now. You folks have fun
[22:07:24] <-- gruck has left IRC ()
[22:08:27] <wjp> hm
[22:08:46] <wjp> I wonder why Stellos is falling
[22:08:57] <wjp> he's far outside the fastarea and so shouldn't be moving at all
[22:09:46] <wjp> um
[22:10:06] <wjp> Stellos has 23 GravityProcesses attached to him
[22:10:53] <wjp> fun
[22:10:59] <WattAtWork> we, um might want to only allow gravity to act once on a single object.
[22:11:34] <wjp> well, that's what's supposed to happen
[22:11:41] <WattAtWork> hehe
[22:12:06] <wjp> Item has a 'gravitypid' field
[22:13:06] * wjp hmmms
[22:14:01] <wjp> ah
[22:14:16] <wjp> ActorAnimProcess doesn't respect that field
[22:15:20] <wjp> ok... I think I see what's causing this
[22:15:44] <wjp> if an Actor has a GravityProcess attached to him, and he's teleported outside of the fastarea, he'll keep falling
[22:16:49] <WattAtWork> and Stellos is one of the crazy teleporting kinda guys
[22:17:18] <wjp> schedule functions teleport people around
[22:18:13] <wjp> so let's see how we should fix this
[22:18:36] <wjp> killing the GravityProcess when the items leaves the fastarea might leave items suspended in mid-air
[22:20:33] <wjp> I'm fairly sure I thought about this before
[22:21:32] <wjp> ah, indeed
[22:21:41] <wjp> the GravityProcess is terminated when leaving the fastarea
[22:21:46] <wjp> so the problem was the gravitypid wasn't being set
[22:21:53] <wjp> great; problem fixed :-)
[22:24:08] <wjp> 13 :-)
[22:24:11] <wjp> anyway, time to go
[22:24:12] <wjp> bye
[22:27:34] <WattAtWork> as far as I can tell, that's what occurs in crusader.... I've seen actors suspended in air (can only see there feet) until you get close and then they fall... only saw it once though
[23:31:53] --> Kirben has joined #pentagram
[23:31:53] --- ChanServ gives channel operator status to Kirben