#pentagram@irc.freenode.net logs for 19 Jun 2004 (GMT)

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[04:49:21] <edbgon> ahoj everyone
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[15:08:51] <Intuition> hi
[15:09:05] <Intuition> is there a good editor for ultima 8?
[15:11:41] <DarkeZzz> Not that I know of, no.
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[15:13:40] <Intuition> so what about pentagram
[15:13:52] <Intuition> isnt it gonna become a u8 editor?
[15:14:54] <Darke> As far as I know, there's no real plans to do so.
[15:15:28] <Intuition> whats this "Project: Pentagram: Summary A game engine for running Ultima 8 on modern operating systems.
[15:15:31] <Intuition> is this true
[15:15:51] <Intuition> isnt pentagram only a model viewer?
[15:16:07] <Darke> Yep. And it can (sorta) do so at the moment, if you grab the relevant binaries.
[15:16:11] <Darke> Nope.
[15:16:21] <Intuition> cool
[15:16:40] <Intuition> so will i be able to run u8 now in xp ?
[15:16:44] <Darke> Some of the old programs we were putting together to test our knowledge of the file formats allowed viewing of certain things.
[15:17:11] <Intuition> id like to know how to spawn any item i like into the game
[15:17:17] <Intuition> to use as i please :)
[15:17:21] <Darke> Should be able to. Pentagram is rather incomplete at the moment, lots of stuff works, but it's still lacking things like proper pathfinding/animations and some other bits still don't work quite right.
[15:17:54] <Intuition> any rips?
[15:17:59] <Darke> I don't think there's any way of doing that at the moment. All the keys and commands should be docuemented in the various readme's and the like that are floating around.
[15:18:01] <Intuition> tips i mean
[15:18:23] <Darke> Tips for what?
[15:18:38] <Darke> I can't help you with any gameplay tips what so ever, I've never played u8. *grin*
[15:18:48] <Intuition> how to accomplish spawning any items
[15:19:09] <Intuition> ever heard of artmoney?
[15:20:00] <Darke> I don't think there's anyway to spawn items, without fiddling with the source atm.
[15:20:07] <Darke> Nope. Never heard of artmoney.
[15:20:31] <Intuition> its a memory editor
[15:21:10] <Intuition> u know, search for 4 bullets, shoot, search for 3 bullets and find the ammo memory address
[15:21:49] <Intuition> but i had no luck even increasing money in u8
[15:22:46] <Darke> Ahh.
[15:23:10] <Intuition> if u like plz mail me progress of pentagram to intuition_667@hotmail.com
[15:23:12] <Darke> That's 'cause money is stored as an object. Just like everything else.
[15:23:30] <Intuition> go on
[15:23:37] <Intuition> enlighten me plz
[15:24:19] <Intuition> is it possible to get my way with artmoney?
[15:24:22] <Darke> Sorry, no can do. I'd be emailing half the planet if I started doing that. You can join the pentagram mailing list, it'll rarely toss an email in your direction if we're chatting about something. Or just check the irc logs.
[15:24:27] <Darke> Not that I know of.
[15:25:09] <Intuition> how come u know its stored as an object
[15:25:22] <Intuition> if u do then u might be able to help me
[15:25:26] <Darke> Everything is an object in u8. Potions, swords, books, money, etc, associated with the 'money' object is a value, it's 'quality', this is how much that particular pile of coins is worth.
[15:26:05] <Intuition> hmm
[15:26:10] <Darke> We know it's stored as an object, because we worked out most of the file formats related to the game.
[15:26:27] <Intuition> how does u8 distinguish between 2coins and 3?
[15:26:57] <Darke> It changes the shape of the pile of coins, depending upon it's quality.
[15:27:10] <Intuition> quality?
[15:27:12] <Darke> (which is how many coins there are in a pile)
[15:28:06] <Darke> If you use the abacus to count up how much money you have, it goes through and adds up the number of coins (the 'quality') in each pile of money you have on you in your backpack or bags.
[15:29:24] <Intuition> so what might the value of 200 coins be in my backpack?
[15:30:43] <Darke> It might be one pile of coins worth 50, and another pile of coins worth 50 and another pile of coins worth 100. Or it might be one pile of coins worth 60, another worth 60 and another worth 80. IIRC, there's a max number of 100 coins per pile. It could be any combination of coins adding up too 200.
[15:31:07] <Intuition> i see
[15:31:24] <Intuition> whats the chance of figuring it out?
[15:31:43] <Intuition> i mean
[15:32:12] <Intuition> the u8cheat file that enables the cheats theres a create item cheat or something
[15:32:16] <Intuition> and they got it working
[15:32:32] <Darke> In which case it might work in pentagram too.
[15:32:45] <Darke> Check the docs and see if someone's enabled it.
[15:33:10] <Intuition> u click on the avatar then the red text menu comes up and u click a work then it spawn all the weapons and armor...
[15:33:23] <Intuition> where do i get the docs
[15:33:36] <Intuition> with pentagram?
[15:33:47] <Darke> There should be a readme with pentagram.
[15:34:27] <Intuition> if the old cheat can spawn weapons and armor y cant u guys spawn almost anything with pentagram?
[15:35:29] <Darke> Theretically yes. I'm just not familiar enough with that side of the code as to whether someone's added the ability to do that.
[15:36:00] <Intuition> can i maby ask u to try doing it for me plz
[15:36:17] <Intuition> if u want to
[15:36:46] <Intuition> id apreciate it
[15:37:24] <Darke> Not at the moment. I should be heading to bed in a few minutes.
[15:37:49] <Intuition> when u have time i mean
[15:38:10] <Intuition> ill try to be back here tomorrow
[15:38:38] <Darke> Yup.
[15:38:43] <Intuition> thanks man
[15:38:55] <Intuition> cya tomorrow
[15:39:03] <Darke> Bye.
[15:39:08] <Intuition> bye
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[20:09:34] <Dominus> hi
[20:09:37] <watt> btw, why is it quality instead of quantity?
[20:09:40] <watt> hi
[20:10:08] <wjp> hi
[20:10:18] <Dominus> dunno, but it is the same in u7
[20:10:28] <wjp> it's just a data field that's used for several things
[20:10:47] <Dominus> wjp, watt: how about "releasing" the website soonish?
[20:10:54] <wjp> for stackables it's quantity, for some others quality, etc...
[20:11:07] <wjp> oh, right, website
[20:11:26] <wjp> might as well get that ready now
[20:11:27] <watt> any other content we need?
[20:12:02] <watt> phorum perhaps?
[20:12:05] <wjp> Dominus mentioned button order is somewhat strange
[20:12:14] <wjp> nah, no forum at this point
[20:12:15] <Dominus> what's the address of your "preview" again, watt?
[20:12:21] <wjp> it's in cvs
[20:12:51] <Dominus> I know, but it is easier to browse his preview :-)
[20:13:07] <wjp> :-)
[20:13:14] <watt> http://fallofrome.dyndns.org:8080/web
[20:14:19] <watt> button order is really easy to change now... no more imagemap... yeah, Colourless was right on that one :-)
[20:14:21] <Dominus> some real news, like "finally a more content rich website"
[20:14:28] <wjp> what's the official spelling of OSX again? Mac OS X?
[20:14:50] <Dominus> I'm sure fingolfin told me once in #exult :-)
[20:15:00] <wjp> the apple website agrees with me :-)
[20:15:37] <wjp> the problem with a news section is that we're expected to update it :-)
[20:16:03] <wjp> it looks kind of bad to have a months/years old top-most news item :-)
[20:16:23] <Dominus> yeah, like our somewhat delayed exult release announcement :-)
[20:16:54] <Dominus> maybe a news section is not so good, instead a generic page that "can" contain news :-)
[20:20:00] <wjp> hm, changing the button order may not be desirable
[20:20:22] <wjp> it breaks the nice 'round' look of the buttons
[20:21:51] <wjp> Dominus: you didn't commit the updated faq/docs to web cvs yet right?
[20:22:06] <Dominus> wjp: yup
[20:22:39] <Dominus> I was about to do it now, but your osx question made me delay that, as I thought you might be doing something now
[20:22:49] <wjp> nothing that would cause conflicts
[20:23:00] <wjp> so feel free to commit :-)
[20:23:13] <wjp> gah, my local pentagram tree is a mess
[20:23:14] <Dominus> ok, I thought you might change something in the docs
[20:23:26] <wjp> no, just on the frontpage
[20:24:33] <wjp> hm, we might want to make the FAQ a bit more 'serious' :-)
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[20:24:57] <wjp> quark?
[20:25:13] <watt|quark> yup
[20:25:40] <watt|quark> hmmm.... my console colours on the laptop aren't exactly great
[20:25:55] <Dominus> wjp: I think we can leave it a little while more like this. But I know that I need to do a serious one as sson as there really are FAQable things to say
[20:26:21] <wjp> as long as it's sufficiently clear that pentagram isn't finished yet
[20:26:34] <Dominus> the only thing I can think of right way is: "are you satan worshippers?"
[20:27:02] <wjp> "See the answer to 1.8" ? :-)
[20:27:42] <Dominus> :-)
[20:28:00] <Dominus> I see I botched things up when I put the changelog at the bottom
[20:28:18] <Dominus> counting still begins with 0.
[20:31:00] <watt|quark> hmm... site actually looks readable in lynx.
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[20:33:06] <wjp> Dominus: I suspect that's all the "position() -1" 's
[20:33:38] <Dominus> yeah
[20:35:15] <wjp> I also think we should shrink down our links section a bit
[20:36:22] <sbx> FAQable
[20:39:05] <wjp> how about UDIC, The reconstruction, xu4, nuvie, exult, u8 in windows, uwadv ?
[20:40:43] <Dominus> yup
[20:42:25] <Dominus> wjp: I need a bit help with the numbering. in html.xsl I can't get it to work properly
[20:42:35] <Dominus> for the sub template
[20:42:44] <Dominus> beginning line 28
[20:43:12] <Dominus> the sections are counted properly but the the sub-sections still begin with 0
[20:43:30] <wjp> yes, it seems to count the number of preceding sections
[20:43:39] <wjp> try adding a +1 after the count(blah)
[20:44:23] <Dominus> grr. of course that worked...
[20:44:25] <Dominus> thanks
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[21:01:26] <Dominus> ok, done
[21:04:57] <Dominus> wjp: apart from the mix-up with exult/pentagram in the web/readme, is it correct in the instuctions of how to update?
[21:06:29] <wjp> the 'cvs update' step isn't necessary
[21:06:37] <wjp> update.sh does that
[21:06:53] <Dominus> probably in exult as well, right?
[21:07:09] <wjp> yes
[21:07:13] <wjp> is it wrong there?
[21:07:18] <wjp> oh, so it is
[21:07:29] <Dominus> I'll correct
[21:21:18] <wjp> ok, let's see
[21:21:27] <wjp> for now we should probably disable the history section
[21:21:33] <wjp> and we should add some more screenshots
[21:23:30] <Dominus> yes, screens would be useful
[21:25:22] <wjp> we could use the ones I made for ultimadot
[21:26:19] <Dominus> oh that one would be nice to have in the links section, btw
[21:28:48] <Dominus> afair, those were nice
[21:29:53] * watt nods.
[21:34:22] <watt> hmm.. actually.. they're good choices for screens, but they probably need to be redone.
[21:35:58] <watt> they include the window border (gtk2 window manager, I think :-) ) and they've been tagged by RGPDot
[21:36:37] <watt> and of course, there has been some progress in pentagram istelf since those screens
[21:37:08] <watt> and : UltimaDot: Face it: Your website is lousy. ;) Are you planning on replacing it with something nicer and more up to date?
[21:37:08] <watt> WJP: Yes, our website won't win any prizes currently :-)
[21:37:16] <watt> hehehe
[21:39:00] <Dominus> yeah, a nice interview
[21:45:10] <wjp> watt: the rpgdot logo isn't in my versions of those screens, of course :-)
[21:50:06] <watt> oh... well, I went ahead and took a few new shots.... and drawing order is a little off in the Pyros demo......
[21:50:08] <watt> hmmm.
[21:51:13] <sbx> Can Pentagram still load those other games' maps? I'd like to see those screenshots.
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[22:14:50] <wjp> sbx: the map viewer in the 'old' cvs module should be able to
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[22:21:53] <Dominus> hi darke
[22:22:36] <Dominus> if you are actually there, sorry for fooling around in the ultima newsgroup, but I couldn't resist :-)
[22:23:14] <watt> ultima newsgroup?
[22:25:25] <Dominus> http://groups.google.at/groups?hl=de&lr=&ie=UTF-8&threadm=1234800.5XZgY6pad6%40ID-187157.News.Individual.NET
[22:30:32] <wjp> tsk tsk :-)
[22:30:40] <wjp> poor Darke :-)
[22:31:03] <Dominus> I thought he might get the hints and refuse to write so much
[22:31:31] <Dominus> I felt a bit worried after I saw how much he wrote in reply :-)
[22:40:12] <sbx> I don't get it.
[22:41:30] <Dominus> what part of it? I was only posting as Gideon and myself there
[22:42:59] <sbx> Oh you are posting as Gideon? Why's that? He seemed to enjoy replying to "Gideon" anyway.
[22:43:02] <sbx> :)
[22:43:09] <watt> errr... faq 1.8 and 1.2 need a +1
[22:44:26] <Dominus> ah, damn, forgot the internal links
[22:44:27] <watt> "as stated in 0.1" should be "as stated in 1.1"
[22:45:02] <Dominus> ok, will fix
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[23:10:37] <Dominus> fixed
[23:46:35] <Dominus> we do need to give an e-mail people can use to get in contact with us
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[23:52:33] <Dominus> good night
[23:52:36] <sbx> be
[23:52:38] <sbx> bye
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[23:53:44] <edbgon> hi
[23:53:48] <sbx> hi
[23:53:54] <edbgon> whats happenin in here?
[23:54:06] <sbx> Spoon!
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[23:54:47] <edbgon> excellent!
[23:55:06] <edbgon> but if keanu reeves taught me anything, there is no spoon
[23:55:59] <sbx> tell Darke that
[23:56:16] <sbx> well he's probably asleep
[23:56:18] <edbgon> yeah darke, there is no spoon!
[23:56:30] <edbgon> ah located in europe?
[23:56:36] <sbx> australia
[23:56:47] <edbgon> excellent
[23:57:45] <edbgon> sbx, you a worker for pentagram or merely a lackey?
[23:58:20] <edbgon> just compiled the latest from cvs, but then in the digest I realized that they just updated the website
[23:58:25] <sbx> neither i'm a groupie
[23:58:43] <sbx> but I havnt seen the newest website incarnation yet
[23:59:08] <edbgon> well, looking at logs http://fallofrome.dyndns.org:8080/web/faq.php
[23:59:16] <edbgon> er, that general area