#pentagram@irc.freenode.net logs for 19 May 2003 (GMT)

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[02:40:25] <CashZzz> dont appear to need f to trigger first egg now - yeah the avatar gets up and faces devon! - they both turn
[02:40:32] <CashZzz> nice hakc
[02:40:37] <CashZzz> hakc/hack
[02:41:01] <CashZzz> yay!
[02:41:02] <CashZzz> hehe
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[07:04:12] <wjp|work> huh?
[07:04:21] <wjp|work> here at work the FIRST egg is objid 21184
[07:04:25] <wjp|work> at home it's 21183
[07:04:34] <wjp|work> now I could've sworn I use the same copy of U8 :-)
[07:11:59] --- DarkeAFK is now known as Darke
[07:12:09] <Darke> Looks like we'll have to search for it after all then. *grin*
[07:18:45] * wjp|work hmms
[07:19:07] <wjp|work> console output really makes the framerate drop
[07:19:34] <wjp|work> I could be imagining things, but it looks as if it's drawing character by character
[07:20:23] * Darke ponders and thinks it might be from what he looked over previously. He's probably wrong though and just misread something. *grin*
[07:21:13] <wjp|work> (I mean characters seem to appear on my gnome terminal one at a time)
[07:21:39] <wjp|work> (at a rate where I can actually see them appear, that is :-) )
[07:23:20] <Darke> Ahh. *grin*
[07:38:48] <wjp|work> ah well, console output is notoriously slow anyway
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[07:39:06] <wjp|work> hi
[07:39:37] <Dominus> hi
[07:39:45] <Darke> Hi*2.
[07:44:06] <-- Dominus has left IRC ("enough for now")
[07:52:50] * wjp|work wonders what's next
[07:53:04] <wjp|work> most of usecode seems to be running ok now
[07:53:48] <wjp|work> although opcode 0x6C and 0x78 still need to be done
[07:54:17] <wjp|work> collision detection and pathfinding maybe *shudder*
[07:55:25] * Darke laughs evilly. Have fun!
[07:55:41] <wjp|work> oh, I'm not going to do that right now :-)
[07:55:48] <wjp|work> work, and all that :-)
[07:56:02] <Darke> `"I've got this feeling, shared by others I think, that XML is a hammer and everyone's looking for nail-like objects." (Joseph Carter in a discussion[133] about an init replacement.)` Heh. So true. *grin*
[07:56:04] <Darke> Suuuuuuure!
[07:56:31] <wjp|work> hm, I've seen that quote before
[07:56:40] <wjp|work> (I think)
[07:57:11] <wjp|work> pathfinding will be interesting... the world isn't as clearly built up from tiles as in U8
[07:57:19] <Darke> If you read today's GWN you will have. *grin*
[07:57:36] <wjp|work> oh, I'm only subscribed to that at home
[07:57:50] <Darke> Or yesterdays, depending upon local chronologies. Hopefully not tommorrow though. *grin*
[07:59:05] <wjp|work> s/as in U8/as in U7/... *sigh*
[07:59:58] * Darke grins and does think pathfinding will be uniquely challenging.
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[08:30:45] <Cashman> *blink* *blink*
[08:30:53] <Cashman> ello Darke
[08:30:53] * Darke ooohs! Fishing is fun! Also seems way too easy, he's getting a fish on almost every second go.
[08:31:04] <Darke> Hello.
[08:31:32] <Cashman> hehe! yeah I challenge anyone to a fishing tourni
[08:32:02] <Cashman> tournement
[08:32:26] <Cashman> burp... tat
[08:32:36] <Cashman> that stuffs good
[08:33:10] <Cashman> tournament - hik
[08:33:14] <Cashman> hic hic
[08:36:13] * Cashman slaps Darke around a bit with a large trout
[08:36:17] <Cashman> ehhe hic
[08:36:39] * Darke eats it.
[08:37:17] <Cashman> trout is good hic
[08:38:09] <Cashman> Darke do you know much about directx?! - hmm ok heres a question anyways
[08:38:42] <Cashman> I have a game - I try to run it and it says "can't find the screen resolution"
[08:39:06] <Cashman> would this be possibly drivers - or probably an unsupported 3d card
[08:39:39] <Cashman> eh - might not make sence, that quote might only apply to that new engine
[08:40:45] <Darke> What's most logically the problem is you've set it at a screen resolution that either your video card, or monitor, can't support.
[08:41:07] <Darke> (Such as something weird like 700x300 or such.)
[08:41:31] <Cashman> well the game is actually the new enter the matrix - umm no actually!! the config program doesnt come up with any resolutions to select from! creepy
[08:41:36] <Cashman> that menu went blank
[08:41:52] <Cashman> bugs?! driver prob - or can unsupported vcards do this
[08:41:56] <Cashman> doesnt make sence
[08:42:03] <Darke> Might be just an unsupported card, or bugs in something.
[08:42:06] <Cashman> yeah I get ur first point
[08:42:38] <Cashman> strange even for an unsupported graphics card to not have res select options appear
[08:42:52] <Cashman> I mean that pull down menu was empty! hehe
[08:43:13] <Cashman> I'm gonna try game patch first.
[08:45:18] <Cashman> *burp...*
[09:25:30] <Darke> wjp|work: About that Args::process const stuff? You were right, I *was* missing another const. This has been corrected. *muhahaha!*
[09:28:44] <Cashman> Darke that patch is good but didn't help - hehe I only have an old s3 pro savage km133 anyways! gonna get a cheap new one
[09:28:50] <Cashman> say a mx440 geforce 4
[09:28:53] <Cashman> what you using?!
[09:30:24] <Darke> An el'cheepo GF2MX in this box. I use it for programming, not gaming. *grin* My gaming machine (such that it is) has a GF4Ti 4400 (4600? Can't remember the exact number, or even if that's close *grin*).
[09:30:56] <Cashman> hehe oks cool!
[09:31:10] <Cashman> yeah I'm just gonna pick up a gforce mx440 to play enter the matrix with
[09:31:35] <Cashman> I bought the game for 100 nz dollars - first game in many years I've ever bought!
[09:32:35] <Darke> So that'd be, like, AU$0.10? *duck!* Anything GF4 should work fine, or even the budget end ATI cards.
[09:33:30] <Cashman> yeah nah the mx440 is $120 nz aye! the game as I said was $100nz
[09:33:36] <Cashman> hows ur day been
[09:34:50] <wjp|work> you were missing another const?!
[09:34:59] <Darke> About average. Recovering from a flu will do that to you.
[09:35:01] <wjp|work> but... but...
[09:35:06] <Darke> wjp|work: Yup. *grin*
[09:35:15] <Cashman> hehe
[09:35:23] <wjp|work> how?
[09:35:24] <Cashman> burp..
[09:36:30] * Cashman is the drunk avatar
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[09:36:50] <wjp|work> hm, process might actually be const itself
[09:36:53] <Cashman> aaaah a ghost! Kirben ghosts!
[09:36:59] <Darke> wjp|work: `char *argv[]` is actually `const char * const argv[]`, since both the pointer too, and the pointers from are const.
[09:36:59] <Cashman> hehe e got am
[09:37:00] <Cashman> em
[09:37:17] <wjp|work> Darke: um, but those are already in cvs
[09:37:25] <Darke> wjp|work: So if you take a pointer to that, you get `const char * const * const argv`.
[09:37:31] <wjp|work> oh
[09:37:33] <wjp|work> ack
[09:37:40] * Darke beams with pride!
[09:37:50] <Darke> (Or with vague geekyness, who knows. *grin*)
[09:38:00] <Cashman> burp
[09:39:15] * wjp|work suspects it may partially be insanity :-)
[09:39:44] * Darke beams with insanity! (That works too!)
[09:39:47] <wjp|work> btw, we could probably incorporate unarj in pentagram
[09:39:54] * Cashman slaps Kirben2 around a bit with a large trout
[09:40:06] <wjp|work> (for installing from cd)
[09:40:19] <Cashman> oooh
[09:40:22] <Darke> That would work.
[09:40:41] <wjp|work> not entirely sure about licensing issues though
[09:41:07] <Cashman> wjp if you want fish then talk to Darke - he can get you some good fish!! and lots of it
[09:41:09] <wjp|work> unarj's license seems to allow it
[09:41:20] * wjp|work can't get any fish... my RNG doesn't like me
[09:41:30] <wjp|work> (one fish in about 15 tries I guess)
[09:41:44] * Darke gets one every 3 or 4 or so.
[09:41:45] <Cashman> bugger! Darke does relly well
[09:41:46] <wjp|work> but I'm not sure if it's compatible with the GPL
[09:41:55] <Cashman> and I'm similar to darke with scores
[09:42:03] <Darke> wjp|work: Hmm...
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[09:42:19] <wjp|work> 'emerge -s unarj' points to the url, btw
[09:42:23] <Cashman> hic
[09:43:44] <Cashman> hehe
[09:44:00] * Cashman hides in corner - dont ask
[09:46:10] <Darke> Quote from unark.txt: "You may freely use the UNARJ C source code." Seems pretty clear to me.
[09:46:27] <wjp|work> not entirely
[09:46:46] <wjp|work> (i.e., there are restrictions)
[09:47:40] <Cashman> eh - thinking about compression already! is this part of the new handling
[09:47:49] <Cashman> files etc. all neat in a little box
[09:47:50] <Darke> The standard "we hold the copyright, so don't delete our names on it" clause. The other secionds afaict, relate to only the unarj.exe should one be created.
[09:48:00] <Darke> s/secionds/sections/
[09:48:25] <wjp|work> wasn't there something that you couldn't use it in an archiver?
[09:48:51] --- Cashman is now known as Drunk-Avatar
[09:49:20] <Darke> Nothing I can see under the UNARJ LICENSE POLICY FOR ALL USERS: section. Could be missing it though.
[09:49:32] <wjp|work> what was the url again?
[09:49:52] <Drunk-Avatar> not literally
[09:50:09] <Darke> URL? I'm just reading the licence clause in unarj.txt included in the .tar.gz.
[09:50:19] <wjp|work> url for the .tar.gz :-)
[09:50:48] <Darke> http://ibiblio.org/pub/Linux/utils/compress/ <- This?
[09:50:54] <wjp|work> yes :-)
[09:51:13] <wjp|work> not running gentoo here... :-)
[09:51:31] * Darke 's url is /server/gentoo/distfiles/unarj-2.63a.tar.gz so that particular one isn't likely much use to you. *grin*
[09:51:58] <wjp|work> "This code may be freely used in programs that are NOT ARJ archivers"
[09:52:21] <wjp|work> "(both compress and extract ARJ archives)."
[09:52:34] <wjp|work> so using unarj.c prevents us from adding arj compression to pentagram
[09:53:13] <wjp|work> (which isn't that much of a problem, but I don't think the GPL likes that)
[09:54:19] <Darke> Yeah, that's fine. I can't think of a reasion we'd want to use arj compression in pentagram since, IIRC, it's propritary.
[09:55:04] <wjp|work> it's not that I have problems with the restriction, but I don't think the restriction is GPL-compatible
[09:55:46] * Darke nods, and unfortunately thinks we'd need a laywer to work that one out. *grin*
[09:57:26] <Darke> Nothing stopping us from using the technote.txt to write a quick 'n dirty unarchiver ourselves I suppose.
[09:57:43] <Drunk-Avatar> so what linux os do you guys like to use - or is it ur own mix!
[09:57:53] <Drunk-Avatar> do you think highly of mandrake?
[09:58:09] <wjp|work> I used mandrake until mandrake 8
[09:58:19] <wjp|work> kind of liked it
[09:58:36] <Drunk-Avatar> ok
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[09:59:17] <wjp|work> Darke: do you have an u8 cd around?
[09:59:38] <wjp|work> specifically, which arj method does the archive use?
[09:59:55] <Darke> Gentoo, SuSE and deadrat^WRedHat. Haven't played with Mandrake in ages, and Debian was just plain obsolete when I tried it, given the talk on the ML, sounds like it still is. *grin*
[10:00:08] <Cashman> deadrat nice!
[10:00:09] <Cashman> ehhe
[10:00:22] <Darke> Hmm... only the U1-8 collectiors edition.
[10:00:26] <Cashman> hey still better than microslut!
[10:00:38] <wjp|work> technote.txt doesn't really describe the compression format itself
[10:00:43] * Cashman hides again - as hes mainly using microslut
[10:01:00] * Cashman microslut 2k for that matter
[10:01:13] <wjp|work> they're called microsoft
[10:01:23] * Cashman ooohs microslut with service pack 3
[10:02:02] <Cashman> hehe sorry yeah microsoft!
[10:02:02] <Cashman> I dont like them all the time - who does?
[10:02:28] <Cashman> I picked up the microslut part from the dev c++ roach updater utility!
[10:02:52] * Cashman blames the roach utility programmers for the bad influence!
[10:05:38] <wjp|work> maybe we can package unarj as a separate tool
[10:07:26] <wjp|work> or make it a separate module that you can only include as long as pentagram doesn't have any arj compression code :-)
[10:07:45] <wjp|work> hm, that might actually work
[10:08:15] <wjp|work> package it into a library, so that it is independant of pentagram
[10:08:49] <wjp|work> and then add a note somewhere saying that you can only link against it as long as you don't add arj compression code :-)
[10:08:50] * Darke nods.
[10:14:50] * Darke thinks that would work nicely actually. Something like a --enable-arj-decompression configure flag.
[10:15:26] <wjp|work> more like a --disable-... one :-)
[10:17:38] <Darke> Nah. You'd want it to be an 'enable'. IIRC, legally, no action==no agreement. There was a lawsuit in the US recently about that I believe. *grin*
[10:19:37] <Darke> Thankfully the u8 on the UC cd looks completely uncompressed, so it's effectively just a copy 'n play 'n alter-pentagram.cfg thing. *grin*
[10:27:05] <Cashman> hi
[10:27:06] <Cashman> hic
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[11:05:26] <Cashman> *blink* saw eyes
[11:06:10] <Cashman> sour
[11:23:12] <Cashman> shit! I downloaded some mp3's of how loud the geforce fx 5800 ultra is! man its far too loud and at 77db's full speed! thats louder than my volcanoe 7+ (thats at 50db's) 6400rpm
[11:26:47] <wjp|work> uh? how can you accurately capture a sound level in an mp3?
[11:27:16] <wjp|work> doesn't that depend on all kinds of volume settings, speaker power, ...
[11:27:32] <Darke> You'd have to have a comparison sound playing at the same time.
[11:27:39] <wjp|work> yeah
[11:28:12] <Darke> Just so you can tell the difference between, say a 'stock' GF4, and the FX or something. Still seems a bit of a dubious comparison to me. *grin*
[11:31:07] <Cashman> oooops sorry! the db reading didnt come from the mp3!!
[11:31:17] <Cashman> the mp3 was just a download to get the general idea!!
[11:31:32] <Cashman> the db reading is offical via companies using a db meter
[11:31:57] <Cashman> but man is it loud by the general idea of the mp3/db stats
[11:33:05] <Cashman> but if you ait talking about the db's!! well its a general idea
[11:33:21] <Darke> Hmm... wow. First time I've had someone try to flog me computer bits (in this case a 2.4Ghz p4) in spam mail before.
[11:33:46] <Cashman> still - they talked about microphone placement - nothing flash like the type of mike, gain, power or anything?! hehe
[11:34:01] <Cashman> hehe are we getting ip boardcasting spam again!
[11:34:02] <Cashman> love that
[11:34:09] <Cashman> I have been
[11:34:21] <Cashman> ................................................
[11:34:22] <Cashman> dots
[11:34:26] <Cashman> yuummmm
[11:34:35] <Cashman> l8erz - shower
[11:34:38] * Cashman out
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[12:07:21] * Darke twitches. He just heard the first couple of bars of one of the SS2 music tracks, one of the Hydroponics themes he thinks, come out of literally nowhere. He has a strange urge to hide in his bathroom with an assault rifle. *twitch*
[12:07:39] <wjp|work> uh? :-)
[12:08:14] <Darke> Granted, that would be most people's reaction when being confronted with writing a compiler, but still. Creepy. *grin*
[12:09:14] <Darke> Colourless would understand. *nodnod* *twitch* *hide under bed*
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[12:35:55] <Cashman> grrrr sourceforge doing! maintenance again... hehe
[12:41:00] <Cashman> and back again
[12:41:19] * Darke has a strange urge to fall asleep, so he does. *grin* Night!
[12:41:44] <Cashman> same here - probably at nz time 1 o'clock - in 20 minutes!
[12:41:45] --- Darke is now known as DarkeZzz
[12:42:22] <wjp|work> night
[12:42:35] <DarkeZzz> Hmm... that's right, you're two hours ahead. Congrats on a new day.
[12:42:36] <Cashman> you still at work wjp!
[12:42:39] * DarkeZzz sleeps.
[12:42:50] * wjp|work points at his nick
[12:43:09] <Cashman> yeah its 12:40 hehe new day new day!
[12:43:12] <Cashman> time for sleep
[12:44:03] --- Cashman is now known as CashZzz
[12:45:07] <CashZzz> what time you knock off work wjp!
[12:45:13] <wjp|work> 5pm
[12:45:37] <CashZzz> earlier somedays?
[12:45:43] <wjp|work> I only work on monday
[12:45:48] <CashZzz> ok
[12:46:01] <CashZzz> and study others
[12:46:06] <wjp|work> yeah
[12:47:32] <CashZzz> are you still living at home with parents or flatting?? I'm still at home because moneys hard to get while studying and its good for the mean time
[12:47:47] <wjp|work> living at home
[12:48:14] <CashZzz> nice to have parents that support you aye!
[12:48:50] <CashZzz> are you just doing tech IT support at work?
[12:48:58] <CashZzz> at uni??
[12:49:09] <wjp|work> yes and yes
[12:49:28] <CashZzz> coolz
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[17:27:37] <Dark-Star> wjp: did you look at the warning I described yesterday? especially the "negation of an unsigned value"? Might this be a problem?
[17:29:38] <wjp> hm, no, but I'll take a look
[17:30:16] * wjp hmms
[17:30:35] <wjp> if you remove the x's from the #define ARG_NULL... lines in usecode/intrinsics.h, do the warnings about ARG_NULL32 go away?
[17:40:40] <Dark-Star> I suppose so. wait I'll check
[17:44:03] <Dark-Star> yep, changing (x) to () kills the warnings
[17:44:13] <wjp> k
[17:45:07] <Dark-Star> the other warning might be more serious, though.
[17:46:04] <wjp> yeah
[17:46:14] <wjp> it doesn't really hurt though
[17:46:49] <wjp> but I'll probably change those args to ints
[17:50:27] <wjp> hm, do people really need to be told that if a downloaded file is 0 bytes, the download probably failed? :-)
[17:51:15] <Dark-Star> hmmm... well, it *might* also be that their filesystem is corrupted and that the download actually completed correctly ;-)
[17:51:33] <wjp> :-)
[17:51:51] <wjp> or maybe it's an obscure bug in the filemanager that causes it to falsely say it's 0 bytes
[17:53:13] <Dark-Star> yes, or the file they wanted to download was really 0 bytes large, in which case the download did obviously complete successfully, too
[17:53:28] <wjp> it's the exult installer :-)
[17:55:07] <Dark-Star> ok, well then the last is not an option I guess... except if it's the installer for a platform/OS that's not yet supported, in which case 0 bytes could also be justified :)
[17:55:26] <wjp> win32 :-)
[17:56:57] <Dark-Star> hmmm...
[17:56:59] <Dark-Star> maybe it's a new compression format which squeezes all data into the filename, so that there's actually no need for any more data in the file itself?
[17:57:06] * Dark-Star starts running out of ideas
[17:57:28] <wjp> heh :-)
[17:57:37] <Dark-Star> well, I guess it's really a corrupted download then...
[17:58:34] <Dark-Star> why not add that to the download page? "Newbie note: If the file you've downloaded is 0 bytes in size, you did something wrong and the file is corrupted..."
[17:58:55] <Dark-Star> "... perform the following steps to resolve this problem:"
[17:59:29] <Dark-Star> "1) think... 2) think again... 3) disable download managers 4) click on the download link again"
[18:00:12] <Dark-Star> "...if it still doesn't work: ask your local guru."
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[18:38:53] <wjp> Dark-Star: warnings should be gone now
[18:49:52] <Dark-Star> wjp: confirmed; compiles smoothly now
[18:49:59] <wjp> good :-)
[18:50:00] <wjp> thanks
[19:08:06] <wjp> oh yuck!
[19:08:22] <wjp> this is ugly
[19:08:31] <wjp> usecode is doing the C++ equivalent of:
[19:08:43] <wjp> Item *item; // note, item does not point to a valid item
[19:08:49] <wjp> item->createItem(shape, frame);
[19:08:59] <wjp> and then it expects item to point to the newly created item
[19:16:22] <wjp> not really a big problem to implement though, luckily
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[23:07:06] * wjp just made fish land at the avatar's feet with a nice arc :-)