#pentagram@irc.freenode.net logs for 1 Oct 2007 (GMT)

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[14:44:02] <Monochrome> yo
[15:36:29] <pupnik> hi
[15:36:57] <pupnik> yahoo is swallowing mails
[15:37:09] <pupnik> bastards
[15:37:13] <Monochrome> whaddya mean?
[15:37:16] <Monochrome> swallowing mails?
[15:37:26] <Monochrome> like eating them?
[15:38:43] <pupnik> black hole - no error - though i think i only get undeliverable after 24h or something
[15:38:54] <pupnik> just started today too
[15:47:00] <Monochrome> just a question pupnik you wrok for the pentagram team?
[15:47:16] <pupnik> no
[15:47:23] <pupnik> i don't know anything about pentagram or ultima 8
[15:47:41] <pupnik> i just compiled it for the nokia and will try to tweak the UI when i find time
[15:48:28] <Monochrome> ehehe you neverp layed u8?
[15:48:31] <Monochrome> *played
[15:48:53] <pupnik> nope
[15:49:15] <pupnik> i picked up a fish once
[15:49:15] <Monochrome> dont do it then. unless you want to give yourself an headache
[15:49:33] <pupnik> mmm i'll probably end up following a walkthrough
[15:49:56] <Monochrome> try reaching lithos without a walktrough
[15:50:06] <pupnik> no time
[15:50:15] <Monochrome> its worthwhile
[15:50:26] <pupnik> i'll be the judge of that
[15:50:29] <Monochrome> you feel like, so realized when you finally do it
[15:50:45] <Monochrome> its like "haleluja, i finally did it!"
[15:50:51] <pupnik> :)
[15:50:58] <Monochrome> because there are sooo many death traps in the way
[15:51:08] <Monochrome> and lithos is only the first titan
[15:52:10] <Monochrome> tbh i never finished u8
[15:52:36] <Monochrome> i got angry when i relized the whole game was based on the fucking catacombs
[15:52:52] <Monochrome> i have to finish it one of these days
[15:52:59] <pupnik> Sounds like they could have used a couple more months to playtest and fill in story
[15:53:12] <Monochrome> well, yeah
[15:53:19] <pupnik> it's so sad when that happens
[15:53:22] <Monochrome> i mean the story itself is awsome
[15:53:29] <Monochrome> but its the game itself
[15:53:35] <pupnik> then the game is out there for years... and people think "if only..."
[15:53:38] <Monochrome> its just impossibly difficult because its incomplete
[15:53:47] <pupnik> bumemr
[15:54:23] <Monochrome> for example, there are no clues at all for you have to do after you see lithos
[15:54:26] <pupnik> does pentagram have a game editor?
[15:54:27] <Monochrome> you just have to guess
[15:54:33] <Monochrome> nope
[15:54:47] <Monochrome> neither they are planning one
[15:54:52] <Monochrome> at least 4 now
[15:55:08] <Monochrome> pentagram itself still needs to be playable
[15:55:41] <Monochrome> you can finish the game, but its still too buggy
[15:55:45] <pupnik> good that means i don't have to mess with it yet
[15:56:23] <Monochrome> i hope they make an editor though. it will be the onyl way to definitively fix ultima 8
[16:01:08] <Monochrome> btw i suppose you worked with exult then?
[16:03:40] <pupnik> yes i made some mods to it
[16:03:48] <pupnik> to help work without a keyboard
[16:04:02] <pupnik> but it's still too painful to play really
[16:04:19] <Monochrome> on pc?
[16:04:25] <pupnik> no on the nokia tablet
[16:04:28] <Monochrome> or on nokia?
[16:04:34] <Monochrome> oh
[16:04:49] <Monochrome> you played u7 then?
[16:05:06] <Monochrome> or you just thinkered w/ it like u did with u8?
[16:05:08] <pupnik> um up to about paws
[16:05:27] <pupnik> i played Ultima 1, 2, 3, 4 when they were new
[16:06:08] <pupnik> got partway through 5. and when my back went out in 2000/2001 i played Ultima IX partway through
[16:06:22] <pupnik> so ... i'm pretty excited to play U7
[16:06:44] <Monochrome> wow
[16:06:57] <Monochrome> so you're like what? 30/40 years old?
[16:07:02] <pupnik> yeap
[16:07:27] <Monochrome> well if you enjoyed all those ultima you'll definitively enjoy u7
[16:07:38] <Monochrome> u7 is considered the most ultima of all ultimas
[16:07:51] <Monochrome> the true brittanian ultima, like they call it
[16:08:00] <pupnik> :)
[16:08:07] <pupnik> how did you like u6?
[16:08:13] <Monochrome> never played
[16:08:25] <Monochrome> and i never finished u7 aswell actually :p
[16:08:34] <Monochrome> u7... is one of those games...
[16:08:37] <pupnik> i have to hack the colors a bit to make it less annoying
[16:08:43] <pupnik> (u6)
[16:08:54] <Monochrome> if oyu really enjoy the ultima saga, u7 will probably be your favorite
[16:09:07] <Monochrome> its rly complete
[16:09:19] <Monochrome> every single char on game has a daily routine
[16:09:22] <pupnik> i'm pretty excited - and exult looks really solid too
[16:09:26] <Monochrome> there are day/night cycles
[16:09:36] <Monochrome> yep, exult is pretty much complete now
[16:09:55] <Monochrome> wait, you are waiting for an original copy of u7?
[16:10:05] <Monochrome> u7 is abandonware
[16:10:09] <Monochrome> therefore no illegal
[16:10:36] <pupnik> getting a copy is not a problem, but i have a lot of work to do on other games
[16:10:39] <Monochrome> you can simply download it from some abandonware site
[16:10:53] <Monochrome> oh? you have another projects?
[16:11:06] <pupnik> way too many
[16:11:11] <pupnik> http://pupnik.de/software.html
[16:11:13] <Monochrome> show me
[16:11:51] <Monochrome> lol you work for daimonin?
[16:12:46] <pupnik> no i just compiled it
[16:12:54] <pupnik> don't have time to redo the UI for 800x480
[16:12:59] <Monochrome> daimonin sucks :p
[16:13:34] <Monochrome> what's worms of prey?
[16:13:45] <pupnik> An older worms clone - has some nice animations
[16:13:50] <Monochrome> ooh
[16:13:51] <Monochrome> show meh
[16:14:08] <pupnik> don't have the link offhand
[16:14:29] <Monochrome> oh ok
[16:19:28] <Mrrrrz0r> google bitch :P
[16:19:50] <Monochrome> NO U
[16:19:54] <Mrrrrz0r> I see the Asus EEE is also 800x480
[16:20:08] <Mrrrrz0r> Prolly the same nice panels as Nokia get
[16:20:34] <Monochrome> anyways
[16:21:06] <pupnik> the next nokia might be a must-buy for me
[16:21:22] <Monochrome> u7 is a hell of a game but in therms of ambience i prefer u8
[16:21:31] <Monochrome> in u7 its like everyone wants to suck you cock
[16:21:32] <pupnik> about 4-6 times faster than the N770, ~4x the RAM and possibly opengl
[16:21:51] <Mrrrrz0r> yeah I saw
[16:21:59] <Mrrrrz0r> and gps finally
[16:22:07] <Mrrrrz0r> altho I dont really understand why I would want it
[16:22:07] <pupnik> hmm. do not want to see avatar sex
[16:22:12] <Mrrrrz0r> its still nifty :P
[16:22:22] <Monochrome> lol its not like that
[16:22:24] <Mrrrrz0r> avatar sexx0r is hawt
[16:22:29] <Monochrome> its like
[16:22:48] <Monochrome> the people are all like "yay its the avatar! lets throw a parade!"
[16:23:17] <pupnik> not at the beginning - the fellowship people are pretty neutral
[16:23:38] <Monochrome> the fellowship in trinsic are only a couple of people
[16:24:04] <Monochrome> ffs, they even leave the murder crime for you to investigate
[16:24:18] <Monochrome> you're like james bond, you have license to do anything
[16:24:20] <pupnik> i can see what you mean though - starting out as an unknown person has more of an adventurous feel
[16:24:46] <Monochrome> on u8 its like everyone wants to stick a knife in your back
[16:25:10] <Monochrome> and as soon as you leave the city you feel like you may die at any moment
[16:25:28] * pupnik requests his old friend to send him his old dnd stuff
[16:25:29] <Monochrome> multiplicate that feeling for 10 if you're inside a dungeon
[16:25:37] <pupnik> heh
[16:25:54] <Monochrome> everything is crazy dangerouns and monsters are a lot more stronger than you
[16:26:03] <pupnik> that sounds fun
[16:26:18] <pupnik> i like RPGs where surviving is hard
[16:26:20] <Monochrome> the simplest dungeons
[16:26:35] <Monochrome> which is the quest for an enchanted mace
[16:26:59] <Monochrome> i dont remember its name
[16:27:30] <Monochrome> its not much difficult to overcome
[16:27:47] <Monochrome> but there's a part in which you have to open a door
[16:28:16] <Monochrome> and when you do that suddenly a buttload of zombies and spectres appear out of nowhere surrounding you completely if dont run fast enough!
[16:28:31] <Monochrome> spectres are a bitch to kill
[16:28:42] <Monochrome> the combat system itself is already buggy
[16:29:21] <Mrrrrz0r> lol
[16:29:23] <Mrrrrz0r> thats one thing
[16:29:31] <Monochrome> now try to face a dude that throws flaming exploding skulls that chase you when you can barely aim your weapon
[16:29:36] <Mrrrrz0r> u7/8, things were stronger than you
[16:29:40] <Monochrome> best chance is to run
[16:29:41] <Mrrrrz0r> I dont like easy games :/
[16:30:09] <Mrrrrz0r> back to my maths :D
[16:30:30] <Monochrome> but in u7 you were able to amass enough exp/spells/items to kill evne the thougher monsters
[16:30:43] <lupine_85> Monochrome: I completed U8 without a walkthrough :p
[16:30:43] <Monochrome> plus there was something called glass swords which could be used on bosses
[16:31:15] <Monochrome> congratulations. you wasted an year of your life pointlessly
[16:32:01] <pupnik> does anybody know of a popup sdl keyboard library?
[16:32:17] <Monochrome> its not like its impossible. its possible if you're whilling to try every single combination on game.
[16:32:19] <pupnik> what i'm writing is so lame and game-specific
[16:32:23] <Monochrome> but that takes ages
[16:32:41] <lupine_85> eh? Compared to the earlier ultimas, U8 was surprisinly easy
[16:32:45] <lupine_85> surprisingly*
[16:32:50] <Monochrome> plus my nerves arent made of steel. games like u8 scare the shit out of meh
[16:32:55] <lupine_85> I still haven't completed U4, for instance
[16:34:21] <Monochrome> mostly that's why i didnt finished it yet even with the walktrough. i'm scared of it :p
[16:34:29] <pupnik> three of us played u4... one person was mapping, the other on the keyboard and the other was the 'back seat driver'
[16:34:39] <lupine_85> hehe
[16:34:44] <lupine_85> hawt u4 group action
[16:35:18] <Monochrome> is u4 that difficult?
[16:35:38] <pupnik> one of them is a biochemist, the other a successful software engineer and game designer... and i'm porting u4 :/
[16:35:39] <lupine_85> it's considerably more difficult than U8
[16:35:45] <lupine_85> yay, biology
[16:36:00] <Monochrome> what about u7?
[16:36:12] <lupine_85> never played 6 or 7 or underworld
[16:36:26] <pupnik> underworld was surprisingly fun
[16:38:09] <Monochrome> but you guys "mapped" while playing?
[16:38:16] <lupine_85> I didn't
[16:38:25] <lupine_85> possibly a big mistake
[16:40:34] <Monochrome> u8 srsly lacks a minimap feature imo
[16:40:38] <Monochrome> or some sort of map tool
[16:40:55] <lupine_85> It's not really needed IMO
[16:41:02] <Monochrome> its hard to keep track on geografy when you're running away from zombies on a catacomb labyrinth
[16:41:20] <lupine_85> the catacombs aren't all that complicated
[16:41:32] <Monochrome> they looks srsly labyrintic to meh
[16:41:37] <lupine_85> you fail :p
[16:41:50] <lupine_85> and besides, zombies die pretty easily. It's the skeleton warriors I worry about
[16:41:51] <Monochrome> perhaps. but mostly due to my fear
[16:42:20] <Monochrome> i know, but its scary to see zombies popping out of the floor out of nowhere
[16:42:40] <lupine_85> heh
[16:43:03] <Monochrome> thing is, i played AVP. its scarry when you see aliens running to you out of nowhere
[16:43:14] <Monochrome> but i managed to finish it despite my fear
[16:43:40] <lupine_85> all this talking about u8 makes me want to play it
[16:43:40] <Monochrome> but, there this friend of mine who lves the game but cant simply play it
[16:44:06] <Monochrome> honestly i was thinking about playing it aswell, but i'm scared to play it lol
[16:44:19] <lupine_85> just get to it
[16:45:02] <Monochrome> plus i lost the will to play it when i realized its mostly based on the cathacombs
[16:45:10] <lupine_85> It isn't
[16:45:15] <Monochrome> it is
[16:45:26] <lupine_85> the catacombs are mostly a means to an end
[16:45:26] <Monochrome> everything is connected to the fucking cathacombs!
[16:45:30] <lupine_85> oh noes
[16:45:39] <Monochrome> thus, its based on it!
[16:45:42] <lupine_85> no
[16:45:48] <Monochrome> imo it makes no sense at all!
[16:45:53] <lupine_85> Let's see
[16:46:06] <lupine_85> you have two communities, separated by impassable cliffs
[16:46:19] <lupine_85> How do you get from one community to t'other?
[16:46:40] <Monochrome> how come the burial grounds of the necromancers host the passage for both argent rock, obisidian fortress and the water sanctuary, wtv its name is?!
[16:47:02] <Monochrome> pagan should be bigger
[16:47:26] <Monochrome> argentrock should be acessed via the shores
[16:47:38] <lupine_85> well, feel free to mod the maps
[16:47:40] <lupine_85> hmm
[16:47:44] <Monochrome> obisidian fortress should be acessible via the mountains
[16:47:48] <lupine_85> Does pentagram have trouble saving?
[16:47:54] <Monochrome> yep
[16:48:01] <lupine_85> ><
[16:48:32] <Monochrome> the water sanctuary should be acessible via underwater
[16:48:40] <Monochrome> i remember the boat part on u7
[16:48:43] <Monochrome> it was awsome
[16:48:52] <Monochrome> they should have done a similar thing on u8
[16:48:55] * lupine_85 watches Monochrome demolish U8
[16:49:16] <lupine_85> ぐろ has nothing on this
[16:50:08] <Monochrome> to acess the water sanctuary you should go on boat from tenebrae's dock
[16:50:27] <lupine_85> did you forget that the lurker wants to jump your tender hetero bones?
[16:50:53] <Monochrome> but then you could be caught on some sort of crazy storm or something
[16:51:04] <lupine_85> and DIE
[16:51:14] <Monochrome> but isntead of dying you would wake up on the underwater sanctuary
[16:51:24] <Monochrome> by mere avatarish luck
[16:51:29] <lupine_85> with missing arms and legs, having been chewed off by the lurker
[16:51:30] <Monochrome> like it happens so many times
[16:51:40] <lupine_85> "luck" is a terrible plot device
[16:51:46] <Monochrome> ok ok
[16:51:53] <Monochrome> so what about if avatar was saved by devon?
[16:52:13] <Monochrome> we went all Jesus style after he killed mordea
[16:52:16] <Monochrome> *he
[16:52:28] <lupine_85> *sigh*
[16:54:45] <Mrrrrz0r> lupine_85 - I havent had much trouble saving :P
[16:55:00] <lupine_85> saving is fine, but when i come to load, it doesn't see the savegame
[16:55:04] <lupine_85> the file also seems to exist
[16:57:05] <lupine_85> Heh. hmm. There's a "SavegameWriter.cpp" but no "SavegameLoader.cpp"
[16:59:14] <lupine_85> ah, U8SaveFile...
[17:01:14] <lupine_85> >< I'll just have to not reboot
[17:02:13] <lupine_85> eh? Now it's working
[17:03:26] <lupine_85> Got it... I think
[17:03:26] * pupnik blurs over the spoilers
[17:03:53] <lupine_85> you need to specifically select the Quit menu option in order for savegames to show up next time you read your diary
[17:04:24] <lupine_85> sorry pupnik :)
[17:12:02] <pupnik> no problem with my memory
[17:13:19] <lupine_85> hehe
[17:18:02] <lupine_85> Hmm
[17:18:03] <lupine_85> although
[17:18:13] <lupine_85> nameage is still broken
[17:31:13] <pupnik> ok my friends are strange
[17:31:23] <pupnik> one of them signed an email with
[17:31:33] <pupnik> "best of hilarious Tooth Puddle, Nik"
[17:49:08] <lupine_85> *ZING*
[17:50:27] <lupine_85> Ultima VIII: The Unfinished Story(tm)
[17:51:40] <Monochrome> what?
[17:52:13] <lupine_85> carry on the story in the world of Pagan, post-avatar-cruisethrough
[17:58:07] <Monochrome> meh who cares about pagan, it sucks
[17:58:18] <Monochrome> the avatar fucked the whole shit and that's it
[17:59:17] <Monochrome> there's a lost vale fan fiction however
[18:00:37] <lupine_85> well, yes. but you've got a world in ruin... a hero must step forward to save it, surely
[18:00:45] <lupine_85> the avatar's buggered off, after all
[18:01:43] <Monochrome> nah. pagan is made of chickens and queers
[18:04:56] <lupine_85> you're an awful lot of fail, you know
[18:06:27] <Monochrome> not
[18:06:36] <Monochrome> pagan IS made of chickens and queers
[18:07:00] <Monochrome> its just a bunch of scaredy cats who can barely get the fuck out of their city walls
[18:07:24] <Monochrome> sure, its a fucked up land, but i dont see em doing anything to improve it
[18:07:32] <Monochrome> they are conformists
[18:08:25] <lupine_85> Jenna?
[18:17:32] <pupnik> wonder if Bethesda would release daggerfall or arena sources
[18:19:21] <lupine_85> hmm. of course, to make U8-2, you'd need to reimplement most/all of U8-1, so 'twould make sense to do both
[18:36:24] <Monochrome> u8 doesnt need a sequel
[18:36:29] <Monochrome> it only needs to be completed
[18:37:53] <lupine_85> the story as the avatar, makes one game. starting with a second character (perhaps/probably set before the avatar leaves!) makes a logical second game
[18:38:03] <lupine_85> what happens in pagan, for instance, when the guardian is destroyed?
[18:38:16] <Monochrome> nothing
[18:38:30] <Monochrome> the guardian rulled pagan but he did pretty much nothing on it
[18:38:40] <Monochrome> he just kept it like akid keeps bugs in matchbox
[18:40:24] <lupine_85> he kept it in constant twilight, as a defeated world and power base
[18:40:39] <lupine_85> with that influence gone...
[18:40:45] <lupine_85> there's a good story in there somewhere
[18:40:51] <Monochrome> not rly. the constant twilight was caused by the battle between the titans and the "destroyer"
[18:41:08] <Monochrome> it fucked up the whole space/time continuum
[18:41:24] <Monochrome> along with most continental parts on pagan
[18:50:12] <pupnik> i bet a handful of guys who really knew u8 like you do could fill in the game, with some coordination
[18:51:50] <Monochrome> yeah. but for that we require some pixie dust and a map and trigger editor that never existed
[18:54:18] <pupnik> <joke about hex-editors>
[19:01:45] <Monochrome> well, its possible to thinker with u8's code
[19:01:59] <Monochrome> its decompilable afaik
[19:37:08] <watt> I've been paying a lot of attention to the cfe lists for llvm (clang)... it's been very interesting.
[19:37:25] <watt> This recent message was pretty cool: http://lists.cs.uiuc.edu/pipermail/cfe-commits/Week-of-Mon-20070924/002143.html
[19:39:11] <watt> Probably way more concerned with memory than most projects need be, but interesting anyway.
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