#pentagram@irc.freenode.net logs for 21 Mar 2007 (GMT)

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[18:52:25] <KEAL> lo!
[18:52:27] <KEAL> wjp you there?
[18:52:32] <KEAL> LordNAway!!!!
[18:52:37] <KEAL> its jargon :(
[18:53:22] <KEAL> http://mediaplague.com/Z33D/?p=two i played your project now play mine :) Final Fantasy IV : Easy Type in 3d. level included is Castle Baron
[18:53:32] <KEAL> level is 100% accurate
[18:53:35] <KEAL> :D
[18:53:52] <KEAL> translated from 2d to 3d using ai :)
[18:53:58] <KEAL> cut out most of the grunt work :)
[18:54:40] <KEAL> perhaps you could use similar 2d -> 3d ai for a first person version of ultima in the future :)
[18:56:26] <KEAL> the ai fills in the gaps that are unseen, pretty stupid at it at the moment texture-wise, but that will improve greatly in the next patch or build or whatnot
[19:01:49] <KEAL> it fills the gaps with textures enough to get the job done in a satisfactory manner tho, and walls that are in hidden areas actually seem to be proper
[19:04:45] <KEAL> i dont use rom
[19:04:53] <KEAL> i use screenshots of the game as source data
[19:05:40] <KEAL> http://mediaplague.com/Z33D/?p=resource is where i got all the music and level imagery
[19:08:04] <KEAL> if you walk inside a door you can see the interior view of the main outside level model :)
[19:13:04] <SB-X> ?
[19:17:33] <KEAL> :O SB-X
[19:17:51] <KEAL> try out my remake
[19:18:15] <SB-X> oh well the screenshots are informative, not bad
[19:18:19] <KEAL> its going to be for final fantasy 1 thru 6 plus mystic quest :D
[19:18:20] <SB-X> whats Easy Type though?
[19:18:36] <KEAL> japan version
[19:18:45] <KEAL> japan had easy type and hard type
[19:18:49] <KEAL> america got easy type
[19:19:05] <SB-X> ah k
[19:19:46] <KEAL> difference was equivalent to playing marioland without reseting after you already beat it
[19:19:54] <KEAL> slight rule changes etc
[19:20:21] <KEAL> except easy type and hard type were two physically different carts
[19:21:14] <KEAL> in the american rerelease on psx you had both on one disc and could change between games midstride i believe
[19:21:29] <KEAL> keeping save data intact
[19:21:43] <KEAL> sharing it between the two games
[19:22:38] <KEAL> same exact game, just slight rule tweaks
[19:22:44] <SB-X> Resident Evil 2 is called BioHazard 2 in Japan
[19:22:46] <KEAL> compatible with the same save file
[19:22:53] <KEAL> yeppers :)
[19:23:05] <KEAL> and biohazard in america sucked
[19:23:26] <KEAL> (crappy ass prone to glitches fighting game for n64)
[19:24:07] <SB-X> http://youtube.com/watch?v=nCTKIqfmiW
[19:24:24] <KEAL> broken code
[19:24:27] <SB-X> its not a fighting game for n64 o_O
[19:24:42] <SB-X> oh you mean another game :p
[19:24:56] <KEAL> yes the american game named biohazard
[19:25:03] <KEAL> was a crappy n64 fighting game
[19:25:13] <KEAL> i have a broke copy of the cart
[19:25:15] <SB-X> hehe
[19:25:23] <KEAL> on the cart i have textures randomly disapear
[19:25:28] <KEAL> and the characters turn silver
[19:25:55] <KEAL> the full nameof the game is biohazard warriors i beleive
[19:27:17] <SB-X> buggy console games are funny
[19:27:22] <KEAL> ^-^
[19:27:27] <KEAL> i also have doom for snes
[19:27:44] <KEAL> i dont know if i was able to nab et tho
[19:27:58] <SB-X> because usually they have less bugs than computer games, since they cant be patched, the buggy ones really stand out as being rushed
[19:28:12] <SB-X> i dont remember how doom played on a real snes
[19:28:21] <KEAL> it sucked
[19:28:28] <SB-X> rushed or at least poor quality*
[19:28:28] <KEAL> like 4 to 6fps
[19:28:31] <SB-X> oh
[19:28:31] <SB-X> heh
[19:28:45] <SB-X> well i knew the emulated version was like that
[19:28:45] <KEAL> the doom cart was a bad idea
[19:28:48] <KEAL> but a good collectable
[19:28:50] <SB-X> any special chips?
[19:28:54] <KEAL> nope
[19:28:59] <KEAL> i dont think so
[19:29:03] <SB-X> maybe there shouldve been
[19:29:13] <KEAL> jurrassic park ended up coping code from the doom cart i think
[19:29:53] <KEAL> they just used it sensibly rather than plastering every conceiveable surface with texture and having lines of sight pass thru 8 billion sectors
[19:32:19] <KEAL> in jp every room was just foor walls a ceil and foor with possible pillars in each corner etc
[19:32:36] <KEAL> using imposters for adjacent rooms
[19:34:31] <SB-X> jurrassic park?
[19:34:37] <SB-X> the version i played was a 2d platform scroller
[19:34:50] <SB-X> where you fight genetech
[19:34:57] <SB-X> and dinosaurs
[19:35:35] <KEAL> was that the nes or dmg version?
[19:35:40] <KEAL> snes had 3d parts
[19:36:06] <KEAL> inside buildings and ships was a lot like the doom cart, except 20fps
[19:36:37] <SB-X> snes, dont remember any 3d but i didnt get that far
[19:38:20] <watt> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jurassic_Park_(SNES_game) ???
[19:39:33] <SB-X> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jurassic_Park_(SNES_game)
[19:39:48] <SB-X> yep thats probably the one he's talking about, thanks
[19:39:51] <SB-X> not the one i played
[19:40:10] <watt> The 3d screenshot looks a lot like a wolf3d port
[19:40:13] <KEAL> SB-X, watt you ever lose it and declare an ultimatum build?
[19:41:37] <SB-X> i dont work on pentagram
[19:42:15] <watt> Ultimatum build .... like as in "this build will work or I will destroy my computer"?
[19:42:38] <SB-X> The game I played was "Jurassic Park Part 2: The Chaos Continues".
[19:42:51] <SB-X> no article on Wikipedia
[19:43:10] <KEAL> i dont care if jp had a sucky ending
[19:43:21] <KEAL> that game mademe hide UNDER the bed when i slept
[19:43:25] <KEAL> doom never did that
[19:43:44] <KEAL> especially when paired with late night readings of the book ^-^
[19:43:54] <SB-X> never read it
[19:43:58] <SB-X> whats an ultimatum build?
[19:44:08] <KEAL> the first book is different than the first movie
[19:44:18] <KEAL> half the book is like jp the movie 3
[19:45:35] <KEAL> ultimatum build is where you say fuck all you motherfucking publishing and development websites that wont accept my project i will do more in 7 days than your entire site worth of developers has done in 6 months
[19:45:46] <KEAL> ^-^;;;;
[19:47:02] <KEAL> and then you encorporate a project take over feature that imports every single 2d tile based game on their site using the integrated ai to translate it to 3d
[19:47:17] <KEAL> the ai converts to 3d
[19:47:23] <KEAL> not import thier other projects
[19:48:16] <KEAL> ^-^;;
[19:48:46] <KEAL> if they wont let me in, i will ransack their stuff and take it with me :P
[19:48:49] <watt> hmmm.. nope.... can't say I've ever done that ;-)
[19:49:12] <KEAL> that is an ultimatum build
[19:49:30] <KEAL> either way if i follow thru they lose control over their content
[19:50:22] <SB-X> i've never tried to get my work published
[19:50:33] <SB-X> im going to self publish my first few games
[19:50:47] <SB-X> and hopefully get experience and publicity that way
[19:50:48] <KEAL> my own current label is mp
[19:51:15] <SB-X> yes sounds like you're talking about your own project :)
[19:51:28] <Kazin> how come music isn't working in the latest build?
[19:51:42] <KEAL> :P
[19:51:58] <Kazin> or is it me
[19:52:13] <KEAL> did you break your headphone jack?
[19:52:25] <KEAL> if you broke it you need to stick a pin in their and jiggle it
[19:52:34] <KEAL> then it will play thru the pc speakerds
[19:52:35] <Kazin> :D
[19:52:45] <KEAL> if a laptop
[19:53:03] <SB-X> how do you break a headphone jack?
[19:53:14] <KEAL> usally happens on laptops when you rip out the jack at a violent angle
[19:53:22] <KEAL> by the cord
[19:53:36] <KEAL> such as walking away with headphones on
[19:54:18] <KEAL> espescially in the R4XXX series of compaq presario laptops
[19:55:04] <KEAL> usually within the first 21 days owning it the guide washers fall out of the jack and cant be put back in
[19:55:19] <KEAL> if that happens return the computer no questions asked and get a different model
[19:56:37] <SB-X> shouldnt the jack just come out?
[19:56:40] <SB-X> or the cord break
[19:58:16] <KEAL> if that ever happens it means the computer was constructed by someone using model glue and faeries as building materials
[19:58:24] <KEAL> and is a piece of crap
[19:58:32] <KEAL> no matter how good the hardware seems to be
[19:59:51] <KEAL> the hardware will goddamn fail
[20:00:09] <KEAL> one component after another hardwired component every 2 to 3 months
[20:01:46] <SB-X> i have an emachines that has lasted for a while despite what people said :)
[20:01:53] <KEAL> i have a 3 yr warranty
[20:02:03] <KEAL> however all their stores in the state closed
[20:02:17] <KEAL> i have a pet 4016 than is running full steam
[20:02:26] <KEAL> i have an 8088 on par with that record
[20:02:49] <KEAL> however i kinked the monitor cord and now i see snow until i find someone that can replace the cord
[20:03:00] <KEAL> i want the original monitor/box set
[20:03:09] <KEAL> more deniro that way in ten years
[20:03:32] <KEAL> too bad i dont have the original keyboard :(
[20:04:03] <KEAL> my pet 4016 runs fine, except the gigamassive floppy drive overheats
[20:05:17] <KEAL> i almost had a 8086 in my collection
[20:05:50] <KEAL> but my stupid ass aunt thought he should donate the otherwise worthless machine (only worth was collectable) to their non profit organizaiton
[20:05:59] <KEAL> at the time she didnt know jack shit about computers
[20:06:13] <KEAL> it even had a rare zenith monitor >:|
[20:06:27] <KEAL> rare because it was mint! no burn in.
[20:07:53] <KEAL> the only other totally collectable machine i had was an authentic hell's angels DM
[20:08:00] <KEAL> erm DN
[20:08:11] <KEAL> DN is a handbuilt 586
[20:08:26] <KEAL> for the purpose of antifed bells and whistles
[20:08:41] <KEAL> specifally made for the hell's angels
[20:08:48] <KEAL> DN is the guy that made then
[20:08:57] <KEAL> he sold me one of the ones he made for 50
[20:09:06] <KEAL> then i stupidly thoiugt o gee lets add memorry
[20:09:34] <KEAL> ^-^;;;
[20:09:51] <KEAL> he made the machine for his daughter
[20:10:24] <KEAL> uses moire patterns using lightwave interference for color instead of the normal RGB scanlines
[20:11:19] <KEAL> so cant be monitored to restore the picture it depicts :)
[20:11:19] <SB-X> what do hell's angels need computers for?
[20:11:32] <KEAL> to do their 'taxes' :
[20:11:34] <KEAL> P
[20:11:49] <KEAL> :)
[20:11:59] <SB-X> ah k
[20:12:11] <KEAL> plus formers need boxes that are safe
[20:12:18] <KEAL> or if they are in hiding
[20:13:40] <KEAL> the color with one of his monitors is purely perceptual
[20:13:50] <KEAL> in reality it is pure white and pure black
[20:13:57] <KEAL> :)
[20:14:07] <KEAL> engineering genius
[20:14:38] <KEAL> build to spontenously destruct with the slightest tweak in hardware
[20:15:31] <SB-X> why?
[20:15:44] <SB-X> about the monitor
[20:16:16] <SB-X> is it better than rgb monitors?
[20:17:25] <KEAL> the electromagnetic waves it emits cannot be feasibly translated back into the picture it is producing
[20:17:39] <KEAL> i forget the wikipedia entry on it
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[20:18:21] <KEAL> also the key signature is a hidden folder called DN containing two files each with a 4kb encryption key
[20:20:05] <KEAL> but other than that
[20:20:18] <KEAL> hellass superior coloring adjusters
[20:22:08] <SB-X> why aren't they produced now?
[20:22:23] <KEAL> its a handbuilt computer
[20:22:37] <SB-X> shouldnt they be used instead of other monitors?
[20:22:39] <KEAL> for the hell's angels
[20:22:54] <SB-X> couldnt he have made more money selling them in large quantities?
[20:23:20] <KEAL> i guess you don't get it -.-
[20:23:34] <SB-X> i get it, its custom made
[20:23:45] <KEAL> the more in circulation the more likely the feds will break the purpose of the technology
[20:24:04] <SB-X> well so what, did the hell's angels hold a gun to his head? wait dont answer that :p
[20:24:16] <KEAL> he used to be hell's angels
[20:25:01] <KEAL> i was engaged to his wife's daughter
[20:25:13] <KEAL> he made the puter for her
[20:25:22] <KEAL> i bought it when he was going to take it away
[20:27:32] <KEAL> he made the puter for her to protect her
[20:27:44] <KEAL> she was on probation
[20:27:51] <KEAL> from a double felony
[20:29:00] * KEAL screams and runs out the roomn
[20:29:06] * KEAL tears his hair out
[20:31:11] <SB-X> :)
[20:31:38] <KEAL> if you ever seen MDM in your process list in windows
[20:31:46] <KEAL> i think that may have been a program he wrote
[20:31:54] <KEAL> part of windows
[20:32:01] <KEAL> (the debugger)
[20:33:27] <SB-X> was his name Dr. Watson?
[20:34:14] <KEAL> no :P
[20:34:24] <KEAL> Microsoft Debug Manager is MDM
[20:35:23] <KEAL> i think that is what he wrote for microsoft
[20:36:59] <KEAL> if he wrote it and someone else claims they did they are full of shit
[20:37:11] <KEAL> i am pretty sure he did
[20:38:04] <KEAL> a custom MDM combined with hell's angel technology is windows DN
[20:38:45] <KEAL> it knows if you are not welcome
[20:39:00] <KEAL> and self destructs the computer as i said
[20:41:56] <KEAL> also the ram has an oddfucked support chip
[20:43:21] <KEAL> the oddest thing about win DN tho
[20:43:53] <KEAL> is if you hit a bluescreen, it learns from it and continues where it left off prior to the BSoD when you press a key with no glitches
[20:44:06] <KEAL> and that event never triggers a BSoD again
[20:45:23] <KEAL> honest truth
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[22:29:31] <KEAL> hi Kirben
[22:29:57] <Kirben> Hi
[22:30:24] <KEAL> want to take a gander at something you may be interested in for use in first person ultima projects?
[22:32:49] <KEAL> Kirben?
[22:32:50] <KEAL> :/
[22:34:30] <Kirben> I just do the Windows snapshots on this project, but please post the link in case the developers are interested.
[22:34:38] <KEAL> http://mediaplague.com/Z33D/?p=two
[22:35:09] <KEAL> the entire outside portions of the level the 3d map was generated from using ai http://ian-albert.com/misc/gamemaps/ff2/full/ff2-castle_baron.gif
[22:35:18] <KEAL> that is the source image
[22:35:36] <KEAL> similar methods could be used for converting between 2d ultima and first person view
[22:35:49] <KEAL> the ai is rather primordial at this time
[22:36:16] <KEAL> but all the hidden wall regions and texturing were done by the ai
[22:36:38] <KEAL> the source image was simply marked each tile for its altitude if a floor tile
[22:36:57] <KEAL> and then the type of tile as either wall/floor/or door
[22:37:27] <KEAL> the program in the viewer for tagging the source image automatically finds unique tiles etc
[22:37:39] <KEAL> then you push a series of buttons and it exports the 3d version
[22:37:49] <KEAL> then that is what it looks like in the engine
[22:38:10] <KEAL> it saves a bundle of work for machines to do when converting a 2d level to first person 3d
[22:38:33] <KEAL> ultima is isometric so the ai would need some small tweaks here and there
[22:39:13] <KEAL> also the more advanced ai is not added upon yet that separates objects like npc's and trees etc
[22:39:50] <KEAL> of which would also figure out what parts of the image are actually transparent to show the level behind it
[22:40:24] <KEAL> this would be a simple way to convert a world screenshot to first person by having a machine do the work the human eye would do
[22:40:41] <KEAL> without having to bother about encorpating elements of an engine
[22:42:20] <KEAL> ultima is rather complex tho and may take as much as a 10000 pass ai
[22:42:31] <KEAL> however is much faster than doing it by hand
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[22:45:17] <Kirben> Sounds more suited to the title style uused by the earlier Ultima 1-6 games.
[22:47:32] <KEAL> it would theoretically work with pagan
[22:47:40] <KEAL> the ai would just require many more passes
[22:48:11] <KEAL> once it works with multiple maps it would be mass effective
[22:48:31] <KEAL> meaning you could do it based on actual original game screenshots
[22:48:42] <KEAL> that are welded together
[22:49:03] <KEAL> without having to deal with the whole making the engine twice
[22:50:22] <KEAL> also you would be able to encorporate into the engine sprite translation in order to convert an isometric floor or walls section into a texture
[22:50:55] <KEAL> would theoretically work for slopes as well
[22:51:39] <KEAL> you'd just have to work with training the ai rather than work with the longer term tedious hand duplication
[22:53:06] <KEAL> this results in more accurate 2d -> first person portrayals in the long run
[22:53:11] <KEAL> :)
[22:54:45] <KEAL> in addition you will be able to train the ai to fill in unseen portions as to what would best make sense
[22:55:03] <KEAL> automatically
[22:57:29] <KEAL> and in the universal format you decide upon, you could always apply mass changes to how the world is constructed, say replacing an impostor with a model everytime it appears
[23:00:51] <KEAL> just my two cents a more convenient way to go about things
[23:02:13] <KEAL> z33d does what you see on the page in 3 file format progressions
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