#pentagram@irc.freenode.net logs for 22 Apr 2004 (GMT)

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[02:36:05] <watt> ooohh.. new c++ parser in gcc-3.4.... and they say Eclipse 2.x will run using gij.
[02:36:33] * watt wonders if Eclipse-3.0M8 will run under it.
[02:37:07] <watt> Shouldn't get my hopes up, but it could use the speed increase.
[02:40:31] <watt> " It is currently a bit slow (you will need a fast processor, 1Ghz+ recommended) and needs much memory (256MB recommended)" - hmmm, well I got that.. but eclipse worked fine under those specs already.... sigh
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[07:51:40] <wjp> watt: any opinion on the sample config file formats in http://www.math.leidenuniv.nl/~wpalenst/a ?
[09:26:01] * Darke looks too.
[09:27:02] <Darke> About the [marks] area, how about 'descriptive' marks? Something like, "Skull Of Quakes"=23 30 40 50.
[09:27:47] * Darke is presuming the 'marks' would possibly appear in a menu or something visible to the user, even if it was a 'debugging' feature.
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[09:57:32] <Jett> 'multifileini' looks the cleanest of them all.
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[10:00:29] <wjp> yes, I think so too
[10:01:00] <wjp> but it should be clearly defined which things exactly go into the separate files
[10:05:36] * Darke likes the subsection one, though thinks it should probably be with curly-braces rather then round ones. But that's just the coder showing. *grin* (Said before, missing in the logs due to disco)
[10:07:30] <Darke> Also, in the various 'game' sections, maybe it would be worth to have a 'defaultprofile=profile/u8.ini' (or whatever) section too?
[10:13:26] <wjp> defaultprofile?
[10:13:37] <wjp> in which one?
[10:14:17] <Darke> In the 'pentagram.ini' '[game:??]' areas.
[10:14:26] <Darke> Ah. You've already got it.
[10:15:07] <Darke> Just didn't notice it because it wasn't too obvious. *grin* (Everything else references a full or relative path, the 'profile' bit is the only one that doesn't.)
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[13:00:26] <Colourless> hi
[13:06:11] <Colourless> thing about marks are, they clearly function as a cheat
[13:09:45] <watt> really want to let them change display settings between languages?
[13:11:33] <Colourless> why not?
[13:12:36] <watt> potentially bulky configs and confusion why changing a setting is simply overridden by another due to language.
[13:12:40] <watt> I dunno....
[13:12:45] <Colourless> most users will only have 1 profile per game
[13:15:45] <watt> I'm in favor of the ini styles simply because its a known standard. I think multilevelini2 would work well, but whatever is the easiest to generate in code should likely be adopted. At one point, either a separate program or a settings menu in pentagram should completely control the config IMO
[13:16:44] <Colourless> the plans are to have a Pentagram menu when you start up
[13:19:17] <watt> right. Best way to choose the game to play.... although skipping the menu via parameters would be nice too.. Icon automatically starting different games based on param... possibly
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[16:44:44] <watt> It's official.. kde just pissed me off... time to start trying out other desktop managers. Instances of kwrite that I tried to start 3 hours ago and failed just suddenly decided, out of nowhere to try to start and cause my machine to come to a stand still.
[16:45:13] <watt> and kvim is just horribly broken
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[19:42:11] <Dominus> hey ho
[19:42:23] <Colourless> greetings Big D
[19:46:05] <Dominus> wjp: any news on the ini-system?
[19:48:55] <wjp> define 'news' :-)
[19:49:45] <Dominus> ok, did you do some more pondering or even coding on it?
[19:50:02] <wjp> pondering: yes; coding: no
[19:51:02] <Colourless> pondering = how much scummvm code that needs to be stolen perhaps?
[19:51:12] <wjp> I'd personally really like a 'proper' multi-level config file format
[19:51:46] <Dominus> I'd like both
[19:51:57] <Dominus> I still think that keybindings should be external
[19:52:51] <wjp> does a profile ini-file (as in the multifileini sample) count as 'external'?
[19:54:05] <Colourless> i think game keybindings should be in the 'profile'
[19:54:11] <Dominus> yes
[19:54:33] <Colourless> of course that causes 'problems' if we decide to add more keys by default. Existing profiles will not be updated
[19:55:04] <Dominus> just that if it were in the main ini and all the stuff in it would get crowded fast and probably too big for Win9X notepad :-)
[19:55:51] <Colourless> we support win9x :-)
[19:56:02] <wjp> Colourless: versioned profile files?
[19:56:32] <wjp> if we add keys, increase version and automatically add them?
[19:56:59] <Colourless> versions is one way
[19:57:33] <Colourless> we could attempt to use 'some' other method for keybinding that will work properly
[19:57:45] <Colourless> but hell if i can think of something reasonable
[19:58:01] <Colourless> most games do not add extra keys in patches :-)
[19:59:25] <Colourless> i think that versioning should be used
[20:00:20] <Colourless> merging key bindings should only add in missing ones (pretty obvious that)
[20:01:38] <Colourless> think about keybindings, it would be nice if you could have multiple sets of keybindings for each game
[20:02:12] <Colourless> i guess that could be arranged using exportable key binding files
[20:02:22] <Colourless> or something
[20:03:21] <Colourless> i'm saying this because it might be desirable to have different 'default' keybindings for the crusader games since the crusader interface can be difficult to use
[20:03:46] <Colourless> some users will want 'classic controls' though other users might want 'improved controls'
[20:03:48] <Dominus> yeah, shooters seem to need such a thing
[20:05:53] <watt> mmmm... improved controls...... I'm hoping to play U8 someday without the use of the keyboard - my mouse has enough buttons :-)
[20:06:05] <Colourless> as such it might be an idea to have a (default) keybindings directory for each game that contains ini files that contain the defaul keybindings
[20:06:21] * wjp is hoping to play u8 someday without the use of the mouse - my keyboard has enough keys ;-)
[20:06:29] <Colourless> :-)
[20:06:33] <watt> hehe
[20:08:18] <watt> to move avatar, simply say, "Avatar: start walking." - voice command... ok maybe not.
[20:08:57] <Dominus> so, make the config split in three files? pentagram.cfg/ini, profiles.ini and keyboardxx.ini?
[20:09:32] <Colourless> no :-)
[20:09:53] * Dominus is confused already
[20:10:04] <Colourless> at least that's not how i would do it
[20:10:53] <Colourless> i would have something like pentagram.ini, default profiles\game.ini, profiles\game_bindings\*.ini
[20:11:52] <Colourless> all profiles and the active keybindings would be stored in pentagram.ini
[20:12:42] <Dominus> stored as in giving the location or stored as in the content is written in pentagram.ini?
[20:13:05] <Colourless> content
[20:13:08] <watt> Is the pentagram.ini system-wide or per user?
[20:14:01] <Colourless> i think current direction is per user
[20:14:38] <watt> and a system-wide for default unchanged settings or no?
[20:15:19] <Colourless> default profiles would be system-wide
[20:16:31] <watt> then yeah, I like the pentagram.ini, default profiles\game.ini, profiles\game_bindings\*.ini style.
[20:18:39] <Colourless> the reason why i didn't put 'default' infront of the game_bindings stuff is it would be useful to have the defaults system wide, and having another per (installed) profile dir that was per user
[20:19:00] <Colourless> of course the per user dir would purely for importing and exporting key settings
[20:21:20] <Colourless> as such the keybinding ini files would ONLY be read when first 'installing' the game, or when importing them via a import key bindings menu
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[21:32:50] * wjp hmmms
[21:33:05] <wjp> multiple sets of default keybindings... why not
[21:34:03] <wjp> so you'd prefer multilevelini2 ?
[21:35:10] <Colourless> yeah i do, but really, i don't care much :-)
[21:35:32] <Colourless> multiple files, or a single file
[21:36:18] <Colourless> i don't think 'user' confusion is really too much of a problem.
[21:36:41] <Colourless> most setting that users would want to change should be able to be done in engine anyway
[21:37:03] <Colourless> and if they want to go digging into the config files, well they can read the docs
[21:37:48] <Colourless> and to further reduce confusion, we could include comments in pentagram.ini pretty much stating the contents of the profile config files can override pentagram.ini and so on
[21:53:48] <wjp> if we have a single config file, there's no need for other files to override pentagram.ini
[21:53:57] <Colourless> yeah
[21:54:30] <wjp> gah, I don't get my system clock... it's 7 minutes behind... last week it was 5 minutes ahead
[21:56:00] <wjp> I should probably be going
[21:56:13] <wjp> I won't be around tomorrow, btw
[21:56:15] <Colourless> cya
[21:56:18] <Colourless> i'm be off too
[21:56:19] <wjp> night
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