#pentagram@irc.freenode.net logs for 22 Jan 2005 (GMT)

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[00:04:25] <curiousis> Hmm... is a peasant in a chair suppose to appear during the Air test? Is this a Wizard of Oz reference or am I gong completely insane?
[00:05:26] <curiousis> I'm guessing yes...
[00:05:36] <curiousis> On all three accounts...
[00:11:44] <curiousis> hmm... my reward for finally constructing the Black gate and going home is a black screen... seems a tad unfulfilling :)
[00:26:47] <sbx> You're supposed to construct the Black Gate?
[00:26:56] <sbx> I thought that was the Fellowship's job.
[00:30:48] <curiousis> Maybe not THE black gate, but is certainly a gate that is overly abundant in colour...
[00:43:37] <curiousis> Now I'm not expert but I guess the summon creature spell should not summon a theurgist, or brick floor tiles...
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[11:08:50] <wjp> Colourless: any idea about this bug? https://sourceforge.net/tracker/index.php?func=detail&aid=1106406&group_id=53819&atid=471706
[11:15:56] <wjp> could it be caused by rendering order?
[11:19:03] <Colourless> letes see
[11:20:08] <Colourless> hmm. not sure
[11:20:09] <Colourless> could be
[11:20:35] <Colourless> what does it use to create the book?
[11:30:55] <Colourless> um, you know the guard by the gate outside of tenebrae... i think it's broken again
[11:31:51] <wjp> Item::create() followed by Item::pop(x,y,z)
[11:31:54] <wjp> what, again?
[11:34:25] <Colourless> well, it wasn't working for me yesterday
[11:34:39] <wjp> what did he do?
[11:34:42] <Colourless> nothing
[11:34:47] <Colourless> nothing at all
[11:34:53] <wjp> hm
[11:35:11] <wjp> reproducable?
[11:35:17] <Colourless> everytime i try
[11:35:56] <wjp> he acts normal here
[11:36:08] <wjp> could you do a Kernel::listItemProcesses 4 ?
[11:36:22] <Colourless> ok
[11:41:35] <Colourless> pentagram once used to be such a small project
[11:43:11] <Colourless> ok lets see
[11:43:30] <wjp> referring to compile time? :-)
[11:43:31] <Colourless> what he does is just say 'Halt Stranger' turn a bit, then stop
[11:43:35] <Colourless> yeah
[11:43:53] <Colourless> item '4' has no processes
[11:43:59] <wjp> ah
[11:44:19] <wjp> any 'process x caused an error' messages?
[11:44:28] <Colourless> no
[11:44:32] <Colourless> nothing
[11:44:44] <wjp> peculiar
[11:45:15] <Colourless> yes
[11:46:16] <Colourless> i did have this in my log:
[11:46:16] <Colourless> PathfinderProcess: failed to find path
[11:48:59] <Colourless> pathfinder failed is when talking to devon
[11:49:58] <Colourless> this time i tried and the guard is working properly
[11:52:08] <Colourless> and tried again worked, then again failed
[11:54:14] <Colourless> hmm... i am going to 'guess' the problem is the pathfinding...
[11:54:20] <wjp> quite possible :-)
[11:54:38] <wjp> it's doing strange stuff...
[12:17:33] <Colourless> something has to be terminating all of item 4s processes
[12:26:15] <Colourless> it's the usecodes fault...
[12:26:22] <Colourless> now to figure out why
[12:43:29] <Colourless> hmm... 'something' is causing the pathfinder process for the guard to be terminated
[12:43:51] <Colourless> it seems that maybe a process isn't properly being suspended
[12:51:55] <Colourless> ok
[12:51:59] <Colourless> this is what is going on
[12:52:22] <Colourless> the guard screws up IF you manage to trigger the egg when he is turn around
[12:52:38] <Colourless> s/turn/turning/
[12:53:24] <Colourless> the 'turning around' process causes the pathfinder process to be terminated
[12:57:48] <Colourless> you should try it. use this save game, and as soon as you see the guard turn, jump towards him http://www.users.on.net/~triforce/turnguard
[13:10:02] <wjp> hm, yes, that freezes him for me too
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[14:17:43] <wjp> I'm getting tired of having to recompile to change usecode tracing...
[14:17:56] <wjp> maybe I'll add some more console commands
[14:18:06] <wjp> curiousis: "MovieGump::play endgame"
[14:20:40] <curiousis> Yeah I wtched the endmovie through the semi-working menu...
[14:21:06] <curiousis> It was every but as cruddy as I remembered it ;)
[14:21:25] <wjp> probably cruddier since movie timing isn't implemented yet :-)
[14:23:09] <curiousis> perhaps...
[14:26:10] <curiousis> So other then those one or two plot stoppers I posted... I played through the whole thing without cheating
[14:27:23] <wjp> good to hear :-)
[14:27:32] <wjp> thanks for the playtesting
[14:28:23] <curiousis> No problem
[15:02:57] <wjp> there we go: UCMachine::trace{ObjID,PID,class} and UCMachine::stopTrace
[15:04:07] <Colourless> do you need specific compiling to support that?
[15:04:19] <wjp> not at the moment
[15:04:21] <Colourless> because it would slow down interpreting a lot
[15:04:26] <Colourless> even when disabiled
[15:04:47] <wjp> well, it only has to check a single bool when disabled
[15:05:01] <wjp> but maybe it should be #ifdef DEBUG
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[15:29:07] <wjp> done
[15:29:18] <wjp> I enabled DEBUG by default in configure.ac
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[17:11:53] <sbx> hi
[17:14:03] <Colourless> later
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[17:16:03] <sbx> bye :)
[18:07:41] <wjp> the inter-process relations of usecode seem to be quite subtle
[18:08:58] <wjp> several usecode functions in U8 are making a lot more sense now that the 'failing' of processing (as opposed to normal termination) is implemented
[18:09:10] <wjp> s/ssing/sses/
[18:09:56] <wjp> METHOD::15E7 for example runs an animations and stops a failure cascade
[18:10:38] <wjp> so that's spawned by processes when they want to run an animation that can be failed (by a resetRef call somewhere else)
[21:36:27] <watt> hmm.. It'd probably be better to remove console functions by the Console::Function rather than the name.
[21:49:38] <wjp> what do you mean?
[21:50:21] <watt> currently removed by the string used to enter them
[21:50:23] <wjp> oh, I see; Console::Function is a tyepdef :-)
[21:50:27] <wjp> s/pe/pe/
[21:51:02] <wjp> well, that is the key by which they're stored
[21:51:06] <wjp> (the string)
[21:51:57] <watt> I want add a Console::Alias command and still ensure that if the function is no longer valid, then all the aliases to it disappear
[21:52:29] <wjp> an Alias function?
[21:52:41] <watt> Not that the singletons we have should ever disappear during gameplay.
[21:53:33] <watt> like "Console::Alias GuiApp:savegame savegame"
[21:54:37] <watt> or even "Console::Alias Console::Alias alias"
[21:58:28] <wjp> hm, I really don't see the point
[21:58:43] <wjp> why would you want to make dynamic aliases?
[21:58:56] <watt> "<sbx> you guys need some more command aliases"
[21:58:57] <wjp> that's really not worth the effort, IMO
[21:59:09] <wjp> well, aliases is one thing; making them changeable at runtime is another
[22:00:32] <watt> i dunno... I just think it'd be neat.
[22:01:40] <wjp> just aliasing one command to another name doesn't really add much
[22:01:55] <wjp> now if you want to discuss extending the console to a full language... ;-)
[22:02:16] <sbx> Yes I don't think they necessarily need to be extensible.
[22:02:25] <sbx> Or redefinable at runtime.
[22:02:50] <sbx> Isn't it just easier to type "loadgame"?
[22:03:03] <watt> still.. It's not difficult to do.... only one command and two other function.
[22:04:19] <wjp> but what would the advantage be?
[22:04:30] <watt> little.
[22:04:37] <watt> admittedly.
[22:04:40] <sbx> hehe
[22:04:41] <wjp> I think it would just be confusing if everyone has his own custom aliases
[22:05:25] <sbx> It might be a fun way to cheat depending on how advanced it is. :)
[22:06:16] <wjp> every once in a while I do consider adding more scripting capabilities to the console :-)
[22:06:18] <watt> hmm.. ok.. but I am added the function to remove all commands attached to a set function. That is useful.
[22:06:29] <watt> s/added/adding
[22:06:35] <wjp> k
[22:07:38] <wjp> adding some kind of interface layer on top of the intrinsics to allow calling any intrinsic from the console... :-)
[22:07:59] <wjp> would have to make it OO, of course :-)
[22:08:19] * sbx executes a script to complete the game automatically.
[22:08:47] <wjp> killMonster() { target()->die(); }
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[22:09:27] <wjp> giveMoney() { avatar->getEquip(6)->add(Item::create(money, and, lots, of, it)); }
[22:09:44] <sbx> Now those would be cheating. :)
[22:10:27] <wjp> really? :-)
[22:12:23] <sbx> Would there be a way to detect the presence of a monster? "if(MonsterNearby()) { findTarget(); killMonster() }"
[22:12:44] <watt> mmmm... avatarBot
[22:13:43] <wjp> loop(item, "$") { if (isNpc(item)) { npc = dynamic_cast<Npc>(item); if (avatar->isEnemy(npc)) npc->die(); } }
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[22:13:54] <wjp> or something :-)
[22:13:58] <sbx> yes exactly
[22:14:14] <sbx> I will bind the script to a key, which I can press at any time to complete the game.
[22:14:19] <servus> ARGHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHH!
[22:14:21] <servus> Guess how much my IP just changed by.
[22:14:33] <sbx> nyc-cres?
[22:14:39] <sbx> wb :)
[22:14:47] <watt> how does one quantify that sort of change?
[22:14:50] <wjp> well, from 66/24 to 24/24?
[22:14:59] <wjp> um, /8
[22:15:03] <wjp> just a guess of course :-)
[22:15:10] <servus> It changed service branches, AGAIN.
[22:15:49] <servus> This keeps up for another week and I'm calling my lawyer.
[22:16:21] <wjp> hm, is calling for lawyers an american thing? :-)
[22:16:34] <sbx> yes
[22:16:41] <servus> I've exhausted all other resources
[22:16:56] <servus> I've called the company several times, filed a complaint with the Better Business Bureau. There's nothing left to do.
[22:17:12] <watt> switch companies?
[22:17:20] <sbx> I suppose they can change it all they want if it's dynamic IP service.
[22:17:21] <servus> They have a monopoly here.
[22:17:25] <sbx> even thuogh they shouldnt
[22:17:33] <servus> sbx, it's against the service contract.
[22:17:37] <watt> ok, yeah, that sucks
[22:17:40] <sbx> really?
[22:17:47] <servus> They guarantee a certain amount of uninterrupted and DISCONNECTION-FREE uptime.
[22:18:17] <servus> I am unable to use the service for its advertised purposes.
[22:32:49] <watt> well, there's my five minutes... *sigh*. I should go into work...
[22:33:03] <sbx> bye
[23:11:09] <sbx> his five minutes was an hour
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[23:19:38] <sbx> hi curiousis
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[23:35:03] <wjp> curiousis: did you have to do anything special to get weird things to happen with summon creature?
[23:35:15] <wjp> I tried it a dozen times but only got real monsters
[23:35:22] <wjp> (changelings, kith, trolls and seekers)
[23:37:05] <curiousis> It seems to go weird more often when casting in a northwards direction. But likely I'm imagining things.
[23:37:36] <curiousis> Its about a 1/5 occurence even then...
[23:39:41] <curiousis> I think I've abused the bug tracker enough to keep you busy for a long time
[23:39:49] <wjp> s/abused/used/ :-)
[23:39:57] <curiousis> uhmm... no
[23:40:10] <curiousis> abused is precisely what I meant :)
[23:40:34] <wjp> seeker, changeling, changeling, troll, kith
[23:40:54] <wjp> changelings sure are popular... :-)
[23:40:59] <curiousis> hmm... try in front of Mythran's place. Thats where I tested it. Who knows?
[23:41:07] <wjp> well, I'll take a look at the usecode sometime
[23:41:59] <curiousis> It was funny, I only got a Theurgist once. He appeared on top of a Kith
[23:42:09] <wjp> you got two?
[23:42:25] <curiousis> yes
[23:42:32] <wjp> like the ghoul/guard?
[23:42:38] <curiousis> precisely
[23:42:42] <wjp> interesting
[23:43:09] <wjp> that gives a pretty good indication of where to look
[23:43:33] <curiousis> yeah because I only got the funky brick floor when a changeling appeared. Like 2 things tried to appear again
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[23:44:07] <wjp> might be an intrinsic returning a wrong value or something like that...
[23:44:40] <wjp> by the way, did you mention something a few days ago about a meteor shower not doing any damage or something?
[23:47:36] <curiousis> It didn't seem to hurt anybody at the time... I should try it again
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[23:47:47] <wjp> it should work
[23:51:18] <curiousis> hmm... is there a distance aspect to Meteor Shower? It doesn't seem to hurt a Kith I'm standing right beside
[23:51:50] <wjp> hm, is the Kith hostile?
[23:51:55] <curiousis> yes
[23:52:07] <curiousis> I'm going to try with a Torax...
[23:52:50] <curiousis> hmm... dropped an NPC dead in 2 seconds
[23:54:42] <curiousis> hmm... and if you go between areas while Meteor Shower is active the fire balls stay stuck on the screen
[23:55:05] <wjp> ugh, that bug again :-)
[23:55:25] <wjp> sprite effects (explosions and such) used to do that too :-)
[23:55:37] <curiousis> hehe, looks like MEteor shower still does.
[23:57:42] <curiousis> Nope, the small peasant child just sits there and laughs as fireballs crash down around her.
[23:58:04] <curiousis> hmm... and then after 30 seconds of laughing she suddenly drops dead with 30 damage.
[23:58:14] <curiousis> Maybe it just an exceptionally low hit rate/chance to hit
[23:58:24] <wjp> I've noticed that with more things...
[23:58:46] <wjp> might be some formula is too unbalanced somewhere
[23:59:05] <wjp> I'll have to look into how big the chance is to negate all damage
[23:59:24] <wjp> it might be that for some reason the hit chance is low because the attacker (the meteor) doesn't have any dexterity
[23:59:40] <wjp> (to-hit basically pits the attacker's dex against the defender's dex)
[23:59:41] <curiousis> Beats me, I just break things.