#pentagram@irc.freenode.net logs for 22 Mar 2005 (GMT)

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[15:14:40] <_amano> Impressive, that sound/speech is working now. There was no way before to get that working in Windows with the original DOS Ultima.
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[15:35:33] <trin> hi
[15:35:36] <trin> how do i enable speech?
[15:37:31] <Colourless> run a current build of pentagram
[15:37:57] <Colourless> 'twas enabled about this time yesterday
[15:38:18] <trin> i tried, but no speech :(
[15:38:55] <trin> are there any differences between the german and the english ultima 8, which might it prevent from work?
[15:41:29] <Colourless> i might have the german speech pack file prefix wrong
[15:41:50] <trin> whats the name of the file?
[15:41:52] <Colourless> in the 'sound' directory there should be a list of files the a little then a number .flx
[15:42:03] <Colourless> uh
[15:42:09] <Colourless> a letter, a number .flx
[15:42:15] <Colourless> so something like e666.flx
[15:42:32] <trin> ah i see
[15:42:42] <Colourless> do you have the files? if so what are they
[15:43:24] <trin> just a moment
[15:44:19] <trin> german: g109.flx, g129.flx, g289.flx, g385.flx, g44.flx, g597.flx, g666.flx, g80.flx, music.flx, sound.flx
[15:44:36] <oaQ^> hmm, that might be it
[15:44:57] <trin> i guess the french version prefixes with "f"
[15:45:00] <Colourless> hmm. it should just work
[15:45:14] <Colourless> is your build current?
[15:45:25] <trin> yes download the latest one
[15:45:38] <Colourless> lets see...
[15:45:52] <Colourless> download is over a day old
[15:46:17] <trin> no just the text appears if i step through the town gate
[15:46:54] <trin> it works with dosbox, so my ultima8 installation is ok
[15:47:20] <Colourless> i'll upload a newer windows binary to my webspace if you want it
[15:47:25] <trin> ok
[15:47:26] <trin> url?
[15:47:38] <Colourless> just a sec
[15:48:56] <Colourless> http://www.users.on.net/~triforce/Pentagram.zip
[15:50:10] <trin> testing
[15:51:57] <trin> nope doesnt work
[15:52:02] <trin> only the tex appears
[15:52:08] <trin> only the text appears
[15:52:10] <Colourless> hmm
[15:52:26] <trin> no error message either
[15:52:41] <Colourless> ok try this
[15:52:51] <Colourless> click on the avatar to bring up the cheat menu
[15:52:57] <Colourless> go into the 'demo' option
[15:52:59] <Colourless> then 'guardian'
[15:53:08] <Colourless> then try the different options and see if anything works
[15:53:38] <trin> well if i open the cheat menu i get speech which says "cheater. hahaha"
[15:54:21] <trin> and i dont see a "demo" option ?
[15:55:08] <Colourless> should be the top one
[15:55:14] <Colourless> i'm guessing it's all in german
[15:55:22] <trin> the top one is "information"
[15:55:27] <Colourless> no
[15:55:33] <trin> but maybe the dialog is cut
[15:55:57] <trin> i upload a screenshot
[15:56:44] <Colourless> should say
[15:56:45] <Colourless> *demo *Spell book
[15:56:47] <Colourless> *Information
[15:56:48] <trin> a lot of text, dialogs and menus are incorrectly positioned
[15:56:57] <Colourless> *Enemy Caster * Time
[15:57:14] <Colourless> and so on
[15:57:22] <trin> yeah the upper part is cut off, because the menu is positioned to high
[15:57:44] <Colourless> lets have a looksie
[15:57:57] <trin> moment
[16:00:15] <trin> http://turku.wi-bw.tfh-wildau.de/~rmueller/pent.jpg
[16:00:38] <trin> as you can see not only the dialog but also the avatar menu is misplaced
[16:00:49] <trin> i have this with a lot of menus and dialogs
[16:00:56] <Colourless> how strange
[16:01:30] <Colourless> you should use ttf overrides
[16:02:02] <trin> dont think that helps much, but i can try
[16:02:03] <Colourless> look much nicer
[16:02:38] <trin> with the speech problem i try the english version now
[16:03:12] <Colourless> no it wont help with the speech problem
[16:03:19] <Colourless> but it will help with the text allignment problem
[16:04:05] <trin> the pentagram.exe you gave me, crashes with the enlish version
[16:04:20] <Colourless> it really shouldn't \
[16:04:24] <trin> this gets more and more mysterious
[16:04:27] <Colourless> i am running it right now :-)
[16:07:36] <trin> Unable to load savegame/u8save.000.
[16:07:36] <trin> Unable to find FIRST egg!
[16:07:36] <trin> Fatal signal: Segmentation Fault (SDL Parachute Deployed)
[16:07:52] <Colourless> well is your ultima8 dir set up all right?
[16:08:01] <Colourless> that's a pretty bad problem there
[16:08:13] <trin> it works with the german one
[16:08:29] <Colourless> is your english ultima8 dir setup correcty
[16:08:31] <Colourless> *correctly
[16:08:47] <trin> fixed
[16:08:57] <trin> the savegame folder of the english version was empty
[16:09:36] <trin> i have the same misaligned dialog and menus with the english version
[16:09:49] <Colourless> i said use TTF overrides
[16:10:06] <Colourless> it will look better and the text will be aligned
[16:11:09] <trin> text is now aligned the menus (of course) still appears in the wrong position
[16:11:24] <trin> i dont like ttf much, its to small to read :(
[16:12:08] <trin> to = too
[16:12:13] <Colourless> you can make if bigger
[16:12:52] <Colourless> *it
[16:13:25] <trin> speech works with english version
[16:13:38] <trin> so its a german vs. english version problem
[16:14:33] <Colourless> if you want larger text try doing this
[16:14:48] <Colourless> in data/u8.ini change the [ttf] section to this
[16:14:48] <Colourless> [ttf]
[16:14:48] <Colourless> vera9=Vera.ttf,10
[16:14:48] <Colourless> verabd10=VeraBd.ttf,12
[16:15:15] <oaQ^> umm, can original game fonts also be used?
[16:16:55] <Colourless> by default it is
[16:17:01] <Colourless> but there is an alignment problem at the moment itseems
[16:17:39] <trin> playing the demo->gurardian speech didnt work in the german version
[16:17:41] <oaQ^> ööörgh
[16:18:36] <Colourless> will need to look at things then
[16:19:49] <trin> î will try something
[16:23:33] <trin> hmm renaming the files from g... to e.... didnt help either
[16:23:49] <trin> maybe the german speech is encoded differently?
[16:23:55] <Colourless> i'll need to look at the data files at some time from the german game to see what's wrong
[16:24:22] <Colourless> the problem will be with the string pattern matching
[16:24:36] <trin> do you need the german version?
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[16:24:53] <Colourless> i can get it when needed
[16:25:15] <trin> ok
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[16:30:42] <oaQ^_> aargh, my network connection is lagging seriously
[16:35:08] <trin> uhh setting the tff font to 12/14 is not a good idea :)
[16:38:22] <wjp> hm, text problems when not using ttf?
[16:38:41] <trin> not only text but also menus
[16:39:21] <Colourless> yeah gaps are too big...
[16:44:17] <wjp> english version?
[16:45:56] <trin> happens with english as well with the german version
[16:46:27] <Colourless> yeah happens here with ttf off
[16:46:48] <wjp> strange; I can't remember having changed anything in that code for ages
[16:47:00] <wjp> maybe it just wasn't as noticable in unscaled 640x400
[16:47:28] <trin> i've uploaded another screenshot, which shows that the text is also cut off to the left
[16:47:31] <trin> http://turku.wi-bw.tfh-wildau.de/~rmueller/pent2.jpg
[16:47:58] <Colourless> it wasn't like that
[16:48:07] <Colourless> not when i setup the scalers...
[16:48:09] <wjp> yeah, we currently don't try to keep gumps on-screen
[16:48:10] <Colourless> i had tested it
[16:48:37] <wjp> the original maneuvered bark gumps to keep them on-screen and non-overlapping
[16:49:04] <trin> ok
[16:49:52] <Colourless> i'm going to say that should have 1 less pixel gap horizontally and 2 less vertically
[16:50:32] <wjp> horizontally between words, you mean?
[16:50:45] <Colourless> between characters
[16:50:50] <Colourless> maybe only 1 and 1
[16:51:07] <Colourless> and the gap between words is too big as well
[16:51:08] <wjp> hm, some letters really can't get any closer
[16:51:27] <wjp> although...
[16:52:02] <Colourless> they can overlap by 1 pixel
[16:52:06] <Colourless> since there is a 1 pixel border
[16:52:24] <wjp> will have to compare with screenshots from the original
[16:52:39] <Colourless> exult had the same problem. need to overlap the standard u7 font
[16:56:09] <Colourless> i'm thinking i just didn't notice the problem initially
[17:05:20] <Colourless> http://www.users.on.net/~triforce/cheatmenu.png sorry about the crappy palette
[17:07:33] <Colourless> vertical allignment is out by 1
[17:07:49] <Colourless> spacing between words is 'way' out
[17:07:58] <Colourless> but horizontal spacing between chars is the same
[17:08:06] <Colourless> hmm
[17:08:08] <Colourless> then again
[17:08:15] <Colourless> spacing between words is correct
[17:08:40] <Colourless> it's just the spacing between the 'Ask' options is wrong
[17:11:43] <Colourless> a comparison http://www.users.on.net/~triforce/cheatmenu2.png
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[17:39:20] <_amano> Even the inventory chest appears half off screen.
[17:39:49] <_amano> And some speech text of the decaputation scene renders off screen as well.
[17:40:18] <_amano> At least for me (2xSai) renderer.
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[18:40:50] <watt> I like the embedded ZIP idea.
[18:42:17] <watt> It would be a fairly flexible way to include more files in the future.
[18:43:45] <watt> I'm guessing the way to do it is have it zip the data dir and hexdump it to a header file as an array?
[18:43:58] <watt> I think that's a question :-)
[18:51:32] <Colourless> well i'm thinking this
[18:51:52] <Colourless> we use whatever little program that makes the header, to do the zip compression or whatever
[18:52:33] <Colourless> input a file that contains the list of files to use and it spits out a .h (or .cpp) file that contains a zip as an array
[19:04:55] <Colourless> would also be very easy to write small tool to do that using pentagram code.
[19:33:45] <wjp> I'd prefer that any tools necessary for building pentagram would be as small and simple to build as possible
[19:34:17] <wjp> preferably even a single file without any external dependencies (except for some system headers)
[19:34:43] <wjp> the main reason for this is cross-compiling, by the way
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[19:42:05] <Colourless> yeah i understand that
[19:43:29] <Colourless> what would you suggest
[19:44:29] <wjp> I'm not sure about the .zip idea
[19:44:37] <wjp> it has its pros and cons...
[19:45:17] <wjp> it would save about 40Kb of space currently, I think
[19:45:56] <Colourless> alternatively would be just to store it all uncompressed in an array, but have have an index for an array
[19:48:02] <wjp> I was thinking of storing the data files as a single array per datafile, with a function that fills a map with (name,data pointer) tuples
[19:48:59] <wjp> hm, there might be some platforms that don't like static objects of >64Kb
[19:49:23] <Colourless> well those platforms can use files...
[19:49:33] <wjp> true :-)
[19:50:41] <Colourless> embedded data would be an optional compile feature i would think
[19:51:34] * wjp nods
[19:52:02] <wjp> I definitely want it turned off for myself :-)
[19:52:31] <Colourless> i actually have some reservations about on disk overriding the data in the exe
[19:52:40] <Colourless> i'm thinking about what happens if people have older data on disk
[19:52:49] <wjp> hm
[19:53:09] <wjp> tricky
[19:53:14] <Colourless> in theory the embedded data is correct for this version, so overriding should probably be a ini option
[19:55:34] * wjp nods
[19:55:45] <wjp> yes
[19:56:09] * trin nods
[19:57:50] <wjp> to get back to text spacing: vertical spacing is only off in AskGumps, right?
[19:58:00] <Colourless> no idea
[19:58:06] <Colourless> haven't checked barked
[19:59:02] <wjp> OTOH... maybe not :-)
[19:59:26] <wjp> it might actually be worse in barks :-)
[19:59:34] <Colourless> heh
[20:00:23] <wjp> hm
[20:01:30] <wjp> I wonder if I have a sign problem with the vlead
[20:01:41] <wjp> I set vlead to -1 and _substract_ it from the line height to get baselineskip
[20:02:04] <Colourless> hmm
[20:07:43] <wjp> ok, better now
[20:08:21] <wjp> I can copy-paste a section of a pentagram bark gump on top of the original now without seeing a difference
[20:08:44] <Colourless> good
[20:09:08] <wjp> AskGump should probably manually shift the TextWidgets around a bit somehow
[20:10:52] <Colourless> it looks like when all gumps are opened, they should make sure they are on screen
[20:11:18] <wjp> yes
[20:11:34] <Colourless> what i would like to know is what code the original used to ensure that bark gumps didn't overlap at all
[20:11:50] <Colourless> not exactly the easist things to code
[20:11:53] <wjp> no...
[20:12:08] <wjp> probably no way to always get it right either
[20:13:14] <wjp> rectangle fitting... hmmm..
[20:15:46] <Colourless> one of those things that the human brain can just 'do' visually, but is actually a really complex maths problem :-)
[20:16:44] <wjp> there should be some literature on this
[20:16:58] <wjp> my computational geometry book doesn't seem to cover it
[20:34:46] <Colourless> i should be going
[20:34:48] <Colourless> cya
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[21:04:51] <trin> @wjp: why isnt it possible to switch between fullscreen and window mode ingame?
[21:06:46] <wjp> because we haven't implemented that yet
[21:07:01] <trin> ah to bad :(
[21:07:06] <trin> ah too bad :(
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