#pentagram@irc.freenode.net logs for 23 May 2003 (GMT)

Archive Today Yesterday Tomorrow
Pentagram homepage

[00:16:24] <servus> 3d ultima 8?
[00:16:59] <servus> oh, that neverwinter nights thing, pleh
[11:31:54] --> CashZzz has joined #pentagram
[11:48:19] --> Colourless has joined #Pentagram
[11:48:19] --- ChanServ gives channel operator status to Colourless
[11:53:19] <CashZzz> hi
[12:10:56] * CashZzz slaps servus around a bit with a large trout
[12:11:44] * Colourless whacks CashZzz with a metal pipe
[14:11:49] <-- CashZzz has left IRC (Read error: 54 (Connection reset by peer))
[14:53:44] <-- Kirben has left IRC (Read error: 54 (Connection reset by peer))
[14:55:18] --> Kirben has joined #pentagram
[14:55:18] --- ChanServ gives channel operator status to Kirben
[15:07:34] --> wjp has joined #pentagram
[15:07:34] --- ChanServ gives channel operator status to wjp
[16:09:57] --> Dark-Star has joined #pentagram
[16:15:19] <-- Kirben has left IRC (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer))
[16:38:14] --> sbx has joined #pentagram
[16:47:38] --> [Idoru] has joined #pentagram
[16:47:47] <[Idoru]> Pentagram eh?
[16:47:50] <[Idoru]> what's this about?
[16:48:40] <wjp> hm, looks like our topic went missing
[16:48:46] <wjp> http://pentagram.sf.net/
[16:48:55] <wjp> basically we're writing a new engine for Ultima 8
[16:49:26] <[Idoru]> Is Ultima 8 the new engine?
[16:49:36] <[Idoru]> Or is there Ultima 9/10?
[16:49:58] <[Idoru]> I bought the latest one a while back and couldn't play it because it was too buggy
[16:50:43] <wjp> U9 is the last one
[16:51:12] <wjp> U8 is from somewhere around 1994 I think
[16:52:23] <[Idoru]> I beet U8
[16:52:33] <[Idoru]> Well I got to the last part of the game
[16:52:37] <[Idoru]> and then there was a bug
[16:54:50] <wjp> yeah, it has some bugs
[16:55:21] <[Idoru]> you better fix em
[16:55:50] <wjp> heh, we'll need to get a running engine first :-)
[16:57:20] <wjp> we might get around to fixing some script bugs in U8 if things work out :-)
[16:58:10] --- wjp has changed the topic to: http://pentagram.sf.net/
[17:27:46] <-- sbx has left IRC ("X-Chat [1.6.4]")
[18:36:20] * wjp wonders what to do next in pentagram
[18:36:29] <wjp> (now that it's finally weekend again :-) )
[18:38:59] <Colourless> well, we can discuss something
[18:39:17] <Colourless> in particular key handling
[18:39:59] <wjp> sure :-)
[18:40:04] <Colourless> i'm thinking, it would be generally more appropriate for there to be a 'default' game key handler rather than getting the GameMapGump to handle it
[18:40:14] * wjp nods
[18:40:46] <Colourless> the reason being it becomes a real pain in the ass to workout what should do the keyhandling when the GameMapGump is not the 'focus' gump (focus gump being last clicked with mouse or last opened)
[18:41:19] <wjp> I'm thinking unless something actively 'captures' the keyboard, keys should always go to the same place
[18:41:27] <Colourless> yes exactly
[18:42:03] <Colourless> there will only be a few cases where that would end up being done. Such as a slider gump might want to allow cursors to be used, and the console gump (eventually)
[18:42:28] <wjp> there will always be a couple of keys that should go to the active gump, but the gump manager can probably handle that
[18:42:41] <wjp> (thinking of escape, enter, ...)
[18:42:42] <Colourless> i'm thinking the default key handler should probably go into the Game class (maybe)
[18:43:08] <Colourless> since we are going to want different keys for U8 and TGWDS
[18:43:48] <wjp> how configurable do you want to make keybindings?
[18:44:07] <wjp> I'm not entirely happy with exult's method, but I would like something similar
[18:44:19] <Colourless> yes, i agree
[18:44:24] <Colourless> something similar
[18:58:03] <-- [Idoru] has left IRC (Read error: 113 (No route to host))
[19:21:25] <wjp> did you finish F2 yet, btw?
[19:21:59] <Colourless> not yet
[19:22:19] <Colourless> i have been attempting to gain more experience
[19:22:31] <wjp> which level are you now?
[19:22:44] <Colourless> 19
[19:22:58] <wjp> not bad :-)
[19:23:43] <wjp> did you find all of the 'memory modules' yet? (and their purpose)
[19:23:56] <Colourless> i've found 2 so far
[19:24:01] <Colourless> green and yellow i think
[19:24:19] <wjp> hm, I think I have red too
[19:25:04] <wjp> did you figure out what they do?
[19:25:13] <Colourless> i know what they do, they will increase your stats when you can use them
[19:25:16] <wjp> k :-)
[19:25:37] <wjp> just wondering how much I can say without spoiling things :-)
[19:25:45] <Colourless> say nothing
[19:25:53] <wjp> :-)
[19:26:11] <Colourless> i've been finding a few 'bugs' in the game
[19:26:36] <wjp> hm, I haven't encountered any yet in this time
[19:26:39] <wjp> s/in//
[19:27:45] <Colourless> i returned to vault 13. I talk to the scoller and he says he wants to join me and avenge his clan. The screen fades out, fade back in, I say 'Lets Go'. And then he doesn't follow me. I talk to him again, and it's as if we never spoke
[19:27:54] <wjp> no, actually I did find one
[19:28:07] <wjp> hm, weird
[19:28:32] <wjp> I haven't been able to properly finish the VC raiders plot
[19:28:36] <Colourless> another bug is the locket quest in the den. The NPC who has the locket has disappeared. I know where he is suppoed to be, but he is just not there
[19:28:50] <Colourless> i haven't been able to do the vc raider plot either
[19:29:09] <wjp> that guy that's supposed to be close to the exit to the east part of the den?
[19:29:18] <Colourless> yes, but he is gone
[19:29:21] <wjp> weird
[19:29:35] <wjp> how much do you know about the raiders?
[19:30:35] <Colourless> i've got the stuff from wall safe
[19:30:44] <wjp> but nobody would acknowlegde that?
[19:30:51] <wjp> s/gd/dg/
[19:30:56] <Colourless> holodisk containing info about the bishops involvment
[19:31:16] <Colourless> no option comes up for the First Citizen about it
[19:31:30] <wjp> yeah, same here
[19:31:43] <wjp> kind of annoying :-)
[19:31:56] <wjp> it's supposed to provide some extra quests in NCR
[19:31:59] <Colourless> and also with the ghouls there is the ghouls who has the plan to sell power to VC. However I can't do anything about it
[19:32:28] <Colourless> i've got the holodisk and the person i'm supposed to talk to about it doesn't have any option to talk about it
[19:32:29] <wjp> hm, did you follow up on the 'weird noises' from behind the junkyard?
[19:32:32] <wjp> (in gecko)
[19:32:43] <wjp> oh, you got the holodisk; nvm
[19:33:05] <wjp> I did notice the conversation with the what's-his-name was somewhat weird
[19:34:10] <Colourless> i'm sure if we 'really' wanted to we could look at the scripts to find what the problem is, but that sounds like too much work :-)
[19:34:15] <wjp> :-)
[19:35:08] <wjp> did you try to take the citizenship test in VC btw?
[19:35:43] <wjp> my not-so-bright, not-so-charismatic character couldn't pass it :-)
[19:36:38] <Colourless> i didn't pass it either
[19:36:46] <Colourless> intelligence was too low
[19:37:12] <wjp> hm, you probably can't smuggle mentats in with the searches at the gate, right?
[19:37:22] <wjp> or can you 'persuade' the guards not to search you?
[19:37:32] <Colourless> well, no, but you could take the mentats before entering
[19:38:36] <Colourless> in my last few level ups i've been putting all my skill points into doctor and science. Now i've got a cure for jet :-)
[19:38:48] <wjp> cool :-)
[19:39:10] <wjp> can you get into the VC vault?
[19:39:39] <wjp> hm, I'm pretty sure I got someone else to find a cure for Jet in an earlier game
[19:39:44] <wjp> can't remember who, though
[19:39:55] <Colourless> yeah i can
[19:40:07] <wjp> can you do anything with their medical computers?
[19:40:17] <Colourless> hmm,don't think so
[19:40:21] <wjp> I never played anyone with a high enough doctor skill
[19:40:29] <wjp> there's definitely something there, though
[19:40:52] <Colourless> you talk to myron about a cure for jet. if you're doctor skill if high enough you will say things to him about possible cures. eventually he will say something might work
[19:41:01] <Colourless> then you need to talk to the vc doc and he'll make it
[19:41:19] <Colourless> the vc doc of course is in th vault
[19:41:25] * wjp nods
[19:42:49] <Colourless> what i've been trying to do is the Sierra Military Base. When trying to get the cybernetic brain you need an excessively high science level, i think. That is what i've been putting stuff into science
[19:43:02] <wjp> ah, yes
[19:43:12] <wjp> I have around 90% science right now, IIRC
[19:43:16] <wjp> could get 3/4 brains out
[19:43:33] <Colourless> yeah i can get 3/4 out too
[19:43:42] <Colourless> when was first there, i was lucky to get 2 :-)
[19:43:50] <wjp> I think I have 30 unassigned skill points atm
[19:44:08] <Colourless> what intelligence level are you?
[19:44:16] <wjp> 5 or something
[19:44:26] <wjp> 15 skill points per level, anyway
[19:44:35] <Colourless> if you assigned those points to science and took 2 mentats, you might be able to get it
[19:44:36] <wjp> I should get to SF to have it upgraded :-)
[19:45:10] <wjp> I'll give it a try
[19:45:26] <Colourless> that would give you 50 more science (10 for each mentat + 30)
[19:45:49] <Colourless> that of course would let me know that 140 science is enough :-)
[19:46:02] <wjp> no, it won't
[19:46:12] <wjp> skill points are only worth half over 100
[19:46:33] <Colourless> ah yes that is correct.
[19:46:48] <wjp> (and a third over 125, a fourth over 150, a fifth over 175)
[19:46:56] <wjp> (yes, I have a skill over 175 :-) )
[19:47:22] <wjp> ...this may take some time... running into some fights
[19:47:29] * Dark-Star wonders what game wjp and Colourless are talking about...
[19:47:45] <wjp> fallout 2
[19:48:15] <wjp> yikes, only 10 stimpacks left
[19:48:22] <servus> darke's been asleep in the brier patch for an awful long time :)
[19:48:29] <Dark-Star> hmm... it's built on the Infinity Engine, too, isn't it?
[19:48:52] <wjp> I don't think it is
[19:49:33] <Dark-Star> well, on the screenshots it looks like it is
[19:50:04] <Colourless> no it's not
[19:50:29] <Dark-Star> ok
[19:50:51] <wjp> *sigh*... I should never have left my car behind :-)
[19:51:07] <wjp> (travelling is _slow_ this way)
[19:51:31] <Colourless> hehe
[19:51:40] <Colourless> the car is so much better
[19:51:45] <wjp> was nearly out of fuel at the time
[19:51:56] <servus> "The Fallout series was developed using an engine that was created internally..."
[19:51:56] <wjp> and I needed the few batteries that I had left for my power fist
[19:51:58] <Colourless> fuel is more than just a little expensive thuogh
[19:52:01] <DarkeZzz> Nope. It has it's own engine. And I'm still 'asleep' since I've been awake and asleep three times already tonight, insomnia is a pain, especially when you can't even be a *consistant* insomniac.
[19:52:08] <servus> hah i beat you
[19:52:17] <wjp> you find plenty when you get to high-level opponents, though
[19:52:29] <servus> i think im going to start playing mightandmagic2 again :)
[19:52:34] <wjp> empty out all the gattling lasers, plasma/laser rifels, ... :-)
[19:52:53] <Colourless> yeah i didn't realize that laser ammo could be used
[19:53:26] <Colourless> i have access to 'lots' of laser ammo in new reno :-)
[19:54:02] <wjp> hm, I didn't really do many quests there
[19:54:20] <wjp> did some work for the family with the laser pistols?
[19:54:28] <Colourless> no, i killed them all :-)
[19:54:42] <wjp> ah :-)
[19:54:55] <wjp> I should try that :-)
[19:55:19] <Colourless> i've killed all of them, and all the bishops
[19:55:34] <Colourless> except for Mrs Bishop. she's not hostile to me
[19:55:52] <wjp> no, they were rather.. umm.. friendly :-)
[19:56:01] <wjp> (mrs. bishop and her daughter, I mean :-) )
[19:56:12] <Colourless> :-)
[19:56:26] <Colourless> i pissed off the daughter
[19:56:36] <Colourless> so she died
[19:56:39] <wjp> did you get the speech enhancer from Mrs. Bishop?
[19:56:47] <Colourless> yes i did
[19:57:16] <Colourless> i also upgraded my pipboy in teh vault city vault
[19:57:34] <wjp> hm, which upgrade was that?
[19:57:39] <Colourless> map upgrade
[19:57:49] <wjp> where do you get that?
[19:57:58] <wjp> I think my science was rather low when I did the VC vault
[19:58:10] <wjp> I really can't remember from my earlier games :-)
[19:58:17] <Colourless> if you have high science (i think) and use vault computer you notice a slot for your pipboy. you are given an option to stick it in
[19:58:36] <wjp> ok, will try to remember for next time I get there :-)
[19:58:42] <Colourless> it goes on about your pip boy hasn't been upgraded in 80 years
[19:59:11] <Colourless> and so on. i won't tell you anything else :-)
[19:59:24] <Colourless> i don't actually know what the difference is :-)
[19:59:29] <wjp> ah, right, that rings a bell
[19:59:51] * wjp curses these random encounters
[20:00:07] <wjp> I need to upgrade my outdoorsman skill :-)
[20:00:44] <Colourless> random encounters are good though. you get more xp
[20:01:05] <wjp> yeah :-)
[20:01:21] <wjp> not good when you're trying to get to the Sierra A.D. from halfway across the map though :-)
[20:01:28] <wjp> hey, I leveled :-)
[20:01:29] <servus> black isles making a new game with the fallout2 engine... "lionheart", its some sort of medieval dungeons-and-dragons (but not DND!) thing...
[20:01:34] <wjp> (45 skill points now :-) )
[20:01:47] <Colourless> incorrect. Lionheart doesn't use the fallout engine. It uses the SPECIAL system
[20:01:57] <wjp> (level 22, btw)
[20:02:10] <Colourless> which will be mighty interesting to see how a different game with SPECIAL works
[20:03:03] <wjp> which engine is the special engine?
[20:03:38] <Colourless> not an engine. Strength, Perception, Endurance, Charisma, Intelligence, Agility, Luck :-)
[20:03:38] <servus> "velocity"
[20:03:47] <servus> SPECIAL is the character creation system used in fallout2
[20:03:53] <servus> Velocity is the graphics system
[20:03:59] <wjp> oh :-)
[20:04:15] <servus> it uses both ;-p
[20:06:25] <servus> theres a new stat tho, "ascetic", hmm
[20:06:48] <wjp> hm, 6 radaway and I'm still radiated
[20:08:18] <Colourless> i somehow don't think that Small Guns, Big Guns and Energy Weapons is going to fit with a medievil game :-)
[20:08:31] <Colourless> melee and throwing, yes, but the others, no :-)
[20:08:41] <wjp> small swords, big swords, and uhh..?
[20:09:06] <Colourless> bows, crossbows, magic weapons?
[20:09:48] <wjp> ok, finally reached the S.A.D.
[20:09:51] <servus> it worked for might and magic (actually it didnt, i hated those scifi parts at the end:P)
[20:10:02] <DarkeZzz> Bah, GURPS can handle it, so can fallout. *grin*
[20:10:38] * DarkeZzz loved the concept and was unimpressed that the only one of them he's really finished to the end (M&M8) is completely lacking in it. *pout*
[20:10:51] <Colourless> well, i guess that lionheart could be post apocalyptic like fallout. so it only 'looks' medieval, but there are lost of futurstic weapons around
[20:11:54] <servus> from what i've read, that's not the case at all... shakespeare and galileo are alive and well!.. though im going to vomit if i find a laser gun in the game
[20:12:27] <servus> tons of games are absolutely ruined by this completely out-of-place scifi mumbojumbo... e.g. all the might and magics, return to castle wolfenstein, ultima 1 :p
[20:12:28] <DarkeZzz> But prototype helicopters and such would be ok then? *grin*
[20:12:37] <servus> only if davinci is around :)
[20:12:38] <wjp> ok, 118% science
[20:13:13] <wjp> 3/4
[20:13:25] * DarkeZzz doesn't find 'magic' type stuff to mesh particularly well with a modern day game. But a fantasy game is fine with both magic and sci-fi.
[20:13:32] <Colourless> great thing about having myron with you is he can convert stimpacks into super stimpacks
[20:13:52] <Colourless> all you need is a stimpack, a 'fruit' and a nuka cola
[20:14:01] <servus> darke did you ever beat a might and magic game>?
[20:14:05] <wjp> 134% science and a mentat addiction...
[20:14:25] <wjp> yay! :-)
[20:14:29] <DarkeZzz> servus: Like I said, only number 8. Was always disappointed I never got far into 7, looked really good. *grin*
[20:14:30] <Colourless> he may cool
[20:14:40] <Colourless> hmm,
[20:15:01] <Colourless> one 'should' entierly erase the line before starting to type something different
[20:15:10] <Colourless> 'he may' wasn't meant to be there :-)
[20:15:23] <wjp> yeah, I guessed as much :-)
[20:15:24] <servus> 8? ack... i cant speak for 8, but M&M 1-6 were swords-and-sorcery all the way, until the very end, where (all of a sudden and very out of place!) there are laser cannons, robots, and androids...
[20:15:25] <DarkeZzz> Well... yes. That is the generally accepted way of doing things. *grin*
[20:15:50] <wjp> servus: 8 was different
[20:16:00] <DarkeZzz> servus: That's like what number 7 is like apparently. Though you do start to get the lasers, etc, quite a bit earlier then that.
[20:16:07] <DarkeZzz> 9 is quite different too.
[20:17:06] <Colourless> so 134 is enough :-)
[20:17:31] <servus> well m&m 2, 3, 3.2 are the best :)
[20:17:36] * DarkeZzz loves games with a well-done mix of fantasy+sci-fi. Having it badly tacked on is... well... bad, but otherwise they're fun. *grin*
[20:17:40] <servus> nothing like fighting over 500 monsters at once :)
[20:17:53] <DarkeZzz> Eeeeeeew!
[20:17:55] <servus> did you play Savage Empire, darke?
[20:18:14] <wjp> now what do I do with that brain... :-)
[20:18:23] * DarkeZzz will stick with the later ones then. Can't stand the you-vs-thousands-of-monsters thing. Much stupidness.
[20:18:35] <Colourless> talk to skynet
[20:18:36] <DarkeZzz> servus: Savage Empire? What's that?
[20:18:50] <wjp> he complains about a corrupted download
[20:19:08] <servus> darke you dont understand! :-p, it was your party of 10 and all the other ones were very easy to kill, mostly... they are good games :)
[20:19:16] <Colourless> ah, you are meant to install it in the 'robot'
[20:19:33] * Dark-Star liked MM4&5 best...
[20:19:35] <wjp> yes... where is that thing? :-)
[20:19:43] <servus> savage empire? youre kidding, right? it's ultima worlds 1: the savage empire! The avatar ventures off to hunt dinosaurs with his trusted companions triolo, shamuru, and dupuru!
[20:19:50] <Colourless> keep going past the mainframe room
[20:19:51] <wjp> ah, found it
[20:20:01] <DarkeZzz> servus: I still don't like them. It really seems to be very unrealistic. 500 vs even 10 is just silly. *grin*
[20:20:12] <servus> i was exaggerating slightly
[20:20:21] <wjp> ok, need biomed gel too it seems
[20:20:22] <servus> the hardest battles in the game were with less than 5 monsters, usually :)
[20:20:39] <Colourless> you then need to fill up the bio gel levels (there is a container of it near the robot incase you haven't already done it)
[20:20:53] <DarkeZzz> servus: I know the name, but I've never even seen the ultima worlds before. Mustn't have gotten to this part of the world or something.
[20:21:08] <Colourless> after that you need an activator or something. I don't know what 'that' is
[20:21:25] <Colourless> you should use the computer outside that room and run a 'test' to see what you need to do
[20:21:27] <servus> http://members.aon.at/hacki-ultima/english/se.htm
[20:21:32] <Colourless> downloading skynet may be all that's required
[20:21:36] <servus> Reasons why Savage Empire is better than Ultima Ascension: :p
[20:21:45] <DarkeZzz> servus: Yeah. That's always the case, even in M&M9. That's what I like, I don't particularly like having to kill yet-another-dumb-pirate-and-his-200-buddies. *grin*
[20:22:13] <wjp> bbl
[20:22:19] <wjp> (found the biomed gel, btw)
[20:22:59] <servus> well it was certainly a different type of game
[20:23:00] <DarkeZzz> servus: Can't get there. Keeps timing out.
[20:23:09] <Colourless> there is also a container of it near where you found private dixons eye. you may need both containers of it
[20:23:28] <Colourless> i'm 99% sure i used both on it. but i don't know if only using 1 filled it up
[20:23:59] <servus> http://www.mobygames.com/game/shots/gameId,1624/gameShotId,8889/ heres a screenshot
[20:25:48] * DarkeZzz ahhs and remembers. These are the ones based on the icky u6 engine right?
[20:26:03] <servus> icky? Aghhh!
[20:26:35] <servus> hombahraka:P
[20:26:40] <DarkeZzz> Could never finish that game. Gave up because of the IMO, completely unusuable interface and tiny game window.
[20:26:51] <servus> it just takes getting used to
[20:27:36] * DarkeZzz spent multiple *weeks* on it, then gave up in disgust. He was a u7 fanatic for months before it and really wanted to like the game... only problem was the interface sucked.
[20:28:22] <servus> why didnt you just run the game as u6.exe -runinultima7interface?
[20:29:39] <DarkeZzz> Unfortunately it didn't have it. I did, however, poke through the .exe to see if there was anything interesting in it, because I didn't want to feel as if I'd completely wasted my money on the game.
[20:30:21] * DarkeZzz had some fun messing with the cheats, but... well... there's not much to say about a game where you can only have fun when you cheat, is there? *grin*
[20:30:35] <servus> i beat that game without cheating B-)
[20:31:00] <DarkeZzz> Anyway, I need to try and sleep again before the sun rises properly. I'm obviously tied and cranky. *grin*
[20:31:05] <servus> ive got a sudden case of eldron-itis... im trying to make this 3d model texture too complicated :)
[20:32:30] * DarkeZzz read that as ELRon-itis and wondered why you were trying to make a 3dmodel of Xenu? Brane hurts... must sleep... *grin*
[20:33:19] <servus> Scientology is good for us all. Join us Darke. Xenu Provides.
[20:34:23] <Colourless> :-)
[20:34:33] <DarkeZzz> Umm... isn't it ElRon that provides? I thought Xenu was that evil space alien that caused all the problems in the first place? *grin*
[20:34:55] <servus> Ummm... Anti-Scientology is good for us all. Join us Darke. Xenu Provides.
[20:35:57] <Colourless> but by believing in Xenu, you are therefore bringing credibilty to Scientology
[20:36:20] <DarkeZzz> Then I've got to wonder how Xenu can provide, if you don't believe in scientology. Since Xenu is merely a creature of that mythos, it's like being an anti-christian who believes in Satan, it just doesn't work. *grin*
[20:37:31] <DarkeZzz> Anyway, sleep calls. Night again! *grin*
[20:37:38] <servus> what if by antichristian i mean satan worshipper? :)
[20:37:41] <servus> night darke
[20:38:49] <Colourless> cya :-)
[20:40:08] <Colourless> if you are a satan wosrhipper you are seriously deranged. it means you believe in the christian teachings that satan pure evil, and that god is pure good. However, you then STILL decide that you want to worship evil... why?
[20:41:24] <DarkeZzz> servus: If you don't believe in 'God', how can you believe in a creation (as such) of his? *grin* Like I said it'a a logical in infalibility.
[20:41:39] <servus> what if it means that you think god is evil and satan is good? thats how most satan worshippers operate, i think
[20:42:13] <servus> ive read the bible and paradise lost, and, honestly, god is a much worse person that satan, when you come right down to it :)
[20:42:31] <servus> satan's actions were fully supported by the american constitution!
[20:43:19] <servus> and no, i don't believe in any of it, but i find it somewhat interesting
[20:44:53] * DarkeZzz used to be a Satanist of the 'proper' (or at least more logical) sort. Disbelief in the Christian 'Satan' is mandatory. Understanding the logic behind it (that is, Satan being the logical extreme of 'free will' ("Do what they whilst be the whole of the law" 'n all that...)), is however particularly important and something most people Don't Just Grasp, especially those who are just anti-christian. *shrug* People's is weird.
[20:46:08] <Colourless> that is an anarchist not a satanist
[20:46:13] * DarkeZzz considers the irony of talking about Satanism on an irc channel, dedicated to the remake of a game with many flaming pentagrams. *grin*
[20:46:20] <servus> well i tend to think of "Satan" as something of a trademark of christianity and its roots/branches...
[20:47:32] <servus> well dont talk about pentagrams now... aren't they just another bastardized symbol stolen from elsewhere, like the swastika?
[20:48:00] <DarkeZzz> Colourless: Not necessarily. 'Satanism' is, by defintion a religion like 'Pagan' or 'Christian' describes the broad sweep of all the sects. I was referring specifically to branch most succinctly described as "Le Vey's Church of Satan". *grin*
[20:48:06] <Colourless> pentagram have nothing to do with satanism
[20:48:22] <DarkeZzz> Yup. *grin*
[20:48:35] <Colourless> it was christians who associated pentagrams with satan
[20:48:44] <Colourless> this was to make pagans seem evil
[20:48:47] <servus> ive gotta clean up my house
[20:48:54] <servus> evil schmievel, the crusades were evil
[20:48:57] <DarkeZzz> Yep. *grin*
[20:49:01] <Colourless> for pagans and such, the pentagram is a symbol of power
[20:49:11] * DarkeZzz nods.
[20:49:33] <Colourless> each of the points represent something (4 elements i think and something else)
[20:49:39] <Colourless> the center being the focus of the engery
[20:50:08] * DarkeZzz finds extremes of any religious teaching to be evil. It's just one of those things. *shrug*
[20:50:36] <Colourless> organized religion is evil :-)
[20:50:36] <DarkeZzz> Yup.
[20:50:57] <servus> did pagan use the real names of the points of the pentagram?
[20:51:00] <Colourless> or more specifically, the way organized religious act
[20:51:06] <servus> mestistotle ze/pa/etc? (sp)
[20:51:16] <DarkeZzz> Colourless: *nodnod*
[20:53:18] * DarkeZzz finds himself in the odd position of being brought up in an organised relgion, and believing it because he hasn't found anything else that is really worth believing in, not that he really thinks what he believes in, is really worth believing in, but he believes it because it makes life easier to say you believe in it, or something like that. *grin*
[20:53:33] <servus> after reading watership down, i find myself loathe to kill spiders, dammit ;p
[20:54:24] <DarkeZzz> servus: *grin* All my life I've had problems killing really anything. Even spiders and cockroaches. *grin*
[20:55:36] * Colourless would like believe, maybe..... well, really, he just doesn't care. if it is, it is, if it isn't, then it doesn't matter
[20:55:49] * DarkeZzz has a general dislike of hurting things, either mentally or physically, except himself. Which is obviously why he chose to become a programmer! Wheeee! *grin*
[20:56:48] * Colourless would really like though, is to be able to type. God dammit :-)
[20:58:23] <DarkeZzz> Colourless: That pretty much sums up my view. I figure there's all these people, believing all these different things. It's kinda impolite to say "I belive in *this* subset, so therefore all the rest of you are wrong", so I'm stuck in the logical other extreme, that I have a tendancy to believe that all of the different weird people worship (yes, even Xenu) 'exist' to some weird extent, thus they're all right. Besides, I've been in so many ph
[20:58:26] <DarkeZzz> ilosophical arguments over the years, I've gotten sick of them so this is the easy way out. *grin*
[20:58:51] * DarkeZzz agrees with Colourless. It would be *very* good if the dragon would be able to type, indeed! *grin*
[20:59:18] <DarkeZzz> s/weird/weird beings/
[20:59:43] <Colourless> some weird begins extent?
[20:59:46] <Colourless> :-)
[20:59:52] <Colourless> gee
[21:00:03] <Colourless> i screwed that one up good and proper
[21:00:23] <Colourless> try to make fun of darke, and i kill it with a typo :-)
[21:00:59] * DarkeZzz , however, needs to *sleep* at $(early-hour) of the mornings not discuss religion. *grin*
[21:01:25] <DarkeZzz> Tisk, tisk. And you missed the 'weird' I was referring to, too. I didn't suffix with a '/g' after all, did I? *grin*
[21:01:57] <Colourless> i perfectly know which weird you were refering to
[21:02:01] <Colourless> different weird people worship
[21:02:08] <Colourless> -> different weird beings people worship
[21:02:21] <DarkeZzz> Yup. *grin*
[21:03:38] * DarkeZzz mumbles the mantra, "sleep... sleep... sleep... sleep..." and slips off to bed.
[21:06:43] <wjp> back
[21:07:46] <wjp> one container of biomed was enough
[21:07:49] <wjp> need a motivator, though
[21:08:10] <servus> isnt the mantra for sleep Zu Zu Zu?
[21:08:38] <Colourless> has skynet been downloaded?
[21:09:36] <wjp> no
[21:09:40] <wjp> need the motivator :-)
[21:09:46] <wjp> IIRC, it was on a robot somewhere
[21:10:04] <wjp> (I did this part in an earlier game)
[21:10:05] <wjp> (just didn't get the actual brain)
[21:10:22] <Colourless> if so, my guess about where the motivator would be on level 2 somewhere. Possibly in the locked area with the 'Maintenance' sign is
[21:21:06] <wjp> bingo, got it
[21:21:15] <wjp> one of the security robots had one
[21:21:20] <wjp> (had to kill it)
[21:21:51] <Colourless> ah :-)
[21:21:57] <Colourless> cool
[21:23:29] <wjp> ok, I have a robot now :-)
[21:26:50] <Colourless> :-)
[21:51:15] <servus> ok, I have a boot now :-p
[21:51:42] <wjp> Colourless: we'll need to look into installing the game from cd and patching it sometime
[21:51:57] <wjp> unarj is semi-free, as I mentioned in the logs earlier, so that should be usable
[21:52:07] <Colourless> patching... we may not be able to do
[21:52:13] <wjp> the patch format appears to be .rtp
[21:52:17] <Colourless> yeah it is
[21:52:25] <wjp> hard to find anything online about it :-)
[21:52:37] <Colourless> rtpatch, stuff everywhere
[21:52:44] <wjp> ah, rtpatch
[21:53:14] <wjp> hm, that sounds very commercial
[21:55:46] <Colourless> yeah :-)
[22:02:50] <wjp> I wonder if the file format has been decoded by anyone
[22:03:36] <Colourless> maybe, i've never found extensive info on it, not that i've really looked
[23:09:53] <-- wjp has left IRC ("Zzzz...")
[23:10:27] <-- Colourless has left IRC ("casts invisibility")
[23:50:14] --> Kirben has joined #pentagram
[23:50:14] --- ChanServ gives channel operator status to Kirben