#pentagram@irc.freenode.net logs for 24 May 2003 (GMT)

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[05:11:32] * DarkeZzz rebuilds pentagram w/ gcc3.3.
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[05:16:40] <servus> in your sleep! amazing!
[05:18:00] * DarkeZzz yawns. He regularly feels like he's done half his pentagram coding in his sleep. *grin*
[05:20:00] <servus> is that good or bad? :)
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[07:48:38] <DarkeZzz> Hmm... probably bad given just how distracted I am when half asleep. *grin*
[07:51:06] <SB-X> hmm
[07:51:57] * DarkeZzz was just answering a question asked about two and a half hours ago. Don't mind him. *grin*
[07:52:29] <SB-X> hmm
[07:55:42] * DarkeZzz uses SB-X's hmms to tune a cat.
[07:57:24] <SB-X> eh
[07:58:02] <DarkeZzz> Can't have our cats being out of tune can we?
[07:59:40] <SB-X> no?
[08:01:46] <DarkeZzz> Nope. Think of how horrible the harmony would be should they all be miowing together? Got to have them in tune.
[08:02:38] <SB-X> aye
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[08:17:37] <servus> fa-ra-meow-meow-meow-me-meow
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[08:59:36] * DarkeZzz conducts a kitty orchestra.
[09:04:46] <servus> it'd have to be furrthoven's fifth:)
[09:06:17] <servus> Jammet says he'll claw me if I don't model the Trilkhai tigers for Underworld 2 "Just right" :-)
[09:12:01] * DarkeZzz , many years ago, sung in a choir a song called "The Canine Symphony" was quite fun and he remembers it being based off one of either Beethoven's or Mozart's works. The score unchanged, they just added quite amusing lyrics. *grin*
[09:12:19] * DarkeZzz snickers.
[09:12:48] <servus> you jump around your species, don't you? :)
[09:13:12] <servus> rough rough rough ick probby gonna scrap it before i finish:(
[09:13:57] * DarkeZzz inventories... umm... he's got around 9 or 10 characters of different species and genders. One of them *gasp!* is even human!
[09:14:39] <DarkeZzz> That guy looks a little scrawny in the chest area for a tiger. *grin*
[09:14:58] <DarkeZzz> Not to mention wrists are a little thin. *grin*
[09:16:25] <servus> everyones wrists are thin from that angle
[09:16:35] <servus> wrists are elliptical/rectangular, not circular/square
[09:17:45] <servus> *shrugs*, it's got a lot of tuning-up ahead for it
[09:18:16] <servus> plus once i'm done modelling, i'm going to physique him and "hunch" him over like the source character is.
[09:30:49] <servus> well g'night li'l dogie/bunny/tiger?/human? :-p
[09:31:20] <DarkeZzz> Night! *grin*
[09:31:29] * DarkeZzz is a sleeping *rabbit* thanks. *grin*
[09:31:37] <servus> brier patch, right, got it:)
[09:33:07] <servus> 'ta, wide-awake-rabbit :
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[10:06:34] * Darke is seeing if he can setup a subversion repository to host on his machine, so he can drop his local pentagram related cvs repositories in it, then sync his ls120 disks from that... All this fuss because you can't do recursive cvs. *grin*
[10:07:37] <Colourless> hmm, you know, there probably is a better way of doing things than that :-)
[10:08:23] <Darke> Suggestions? *grin*
[10:09:35] <Colourless> eh, i don't konw
[10:11:15] * Darke grins. Precicely his problem. There *should* be some sort of easy solution, but he can't really find it. *grin*
[12:06:08] * Darke hops off to torture his font server. Back soon.
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[12:23:50] <Colourless> why would someone want to torture his font server?
[12:28:56] <Darke> It was misbehaving rather badly. For some unknown reason double width spacing most of my fixed-point fonts, including the ones I was trying to code with. Most annoying. *grin*
[12:29:46] <Colourless> i see
[12:29:50] <Colourless> what do 'you' do to it?
[12:33:00] <Darke> Blew away it's cache files and scaler information (when I finally found out where it was hiding *everything*) and got it to rebuild them all. Still looks like I've missed some since a couple of the fonts are still b0rk3n, but they're not ones I use, so I don't care. *grin*
[12:36:13] <Darke> It also thought a one of the stanard fonts (Times Serif?) was some weird, baroque gothic font and was trying to use that as the default for web pages, etc. Was most interesting to try and read. *grin*
[14:15:27] * Darke bounces off a rather annoying brick wall in pentagram and wonders how to proceed. Too many options and they all have, to a certain extent, a downside to them. *ponder*
[14:15:55] <Darke> The basic question is, how are we going to handle access to the FileSystem from areas other then directly inside Application?
[14:16:35] <Darke> Currently Application::filesystem is private, so there's no 'easy' way of accessing it through Application::application->filesystem.
[14:16:53] <Darke> And *do* we want to be able to do it that way?
[14:17:19] <Darke> (To me, it admittely, makes the most sense, but still... feels icky somehow.)
[14:18:16] <Darke> The other alternative I see is some sort of public Application::GetMeAFileDamnit() callback to get a file, which also seems to be a less then optimal solution.
[14:19:58] <Darke> You could also pass *filesystem to the appropriate Process'es (or whatever) when created, but that might make our relatively clean (so far) Process interface messy.
[14:22:39] <Darke> Hmm... looks like I pulled the Application::application into the public: space in the first place, so I could handle 'callback' type stuff. (In this case, just to tell the Kernel to terminate rather then loop forever.)
[14:24:42] <Colourless> keep discussing it with yourself :-)
[14:24:52] <Colourless> i'm sure you'll come up with a solution you like and hate :-)
[14:25:11] <Darke> I've come up with four so far, haven't I? *grin*
[14:25:32] <Colourless> not good enough
[14:27:51] <Darke> I'm leaning towards pulling 'filesystem' into public at the moment and accessing it through a Application::application. Simply because it and *config are really the only two things I can 'see' the deep internals really needing, and *config only barely. Though I think this will change when we start using usecode to Bark() and such properly to the screen.
[14:28:29] <Colourless> rarely will anything need to access the disk
[14:31:58] <Darke> Hmm.. the various file converters will and we'll want them to be running 'internal' to Application, if just to produce a pretty progress bar. The UsecodeMachine will need it, if we're going to go the multiple-object files route, rather then linking them all into a flex.
[14:33:41] <Colourless> only the usecodemachine, maybe
[14:35:43] <Darke> UsecodeMachine isn't a process, so isn't created dynamicaly, so it's ok.
[14:36:46] <Darke> The ConvertShape stuff (or even DecodeQuotes!) will likely have to be designed as a Process, so you can have PrettyStatusBarGump being updated regularly. *ponder*
[14:38:03] * Darke has a sudden horrible image of all our ConvertThingie routines being executed simultaneously as Processes. The poor, poor cpu... *grin*
[14:38:17] <Colourless> so what's the problem. just pass the filesystem as a arg to a function
[14:41:13] <Darke> Fine with me. I just figured there might be some sort of logical, unified plan to all this. *grin*
[14:55:48] * Darke yays and finally has it... well... *something* working!
[14:56:22] <Darke> So far it doesn't know much, but it knows what it *doesn't* like! *grin*
[15:06:01] * Darke thinks he really needs to setup a random-generic-error function that returns a random error for the cases where his error can only essentially be "Parse error, there's something wrong here." He's already sick of the standard one he uses.
[15:08:54] <Darke> Weird. There's so many different generic 'Guard's. I'm up to GUARD9 in the usecode. *grin*
[15:10:24] <Darke> Looks like when they inherit classes, at the very least they clone and inline the event functions, rather then just call the GUARDBASE::event. Each guard's look() for instance is essentially identical, afaict.
[15:14:33] <Darke> Hmm... maybe I should just call AVATAR::guardianBark?
[15:14:46] <Darke> "I -really- do appreciate your plight, Avatar. "
[15:15:05] <Darke> "Hark! Is that the sweet song of lamentation I hear? " Oooooh! Very appropirate!
[15:15:24] <Darke> "I do so enjoy the cries of torment. " <- Even more so!
[15:16:27] <Darke> "There is no escape from -this- prison! " <- The Guardian echoing the lament of the programmer.
[15:17:35] <Darke> Hmm... on second thoughts, maybe it'd be just a *little* counterproductive for a compiler to be so... evil. *grin*
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[15:46:18] * Darke waves. Hiya.
[15:47:27] <Colourless> hi
[15:47:40] <Dark-Star> Hi
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[19:26:21] <Colourless> hey wjp, i've now got skynet
[19:26:30] <Colourless> and am upto level... 21 :-)
[19:39:12] <wjp> nice :-)
[19:41:27] <wjp> I didn't keep skynet, btw. (Reloaded an earlier savegame)
[19:41:39] <wjp> didn't want to spend that many points on science
[19:41:45] <Colourless> :-)
[19:41:48] <Colourless> i did
[19:42:13] <Colourless> i since when to vault city and scienced the medical computers, and found out about dermal plating
[19:42:30] <wjp> ok, I got that far too
[19:42:31] <Colourless> whether it will prove useful is a different matter entirely
[19:42:38] <wjp> did you get the dermal plating?
[19:43:04] <Colourless> no, not yet
[19:43:12] <Colourless> doc wouldn't to the procedure
[19:43:26] <wjp> more speech? :-)
[19:43:56] <Colourless> i'll see if i can try to convince him
[19:44:11] <Colourless> i am currently screwing around in modoc
[19:44:21] <Colourless> mordoc or whatever the town near vc is called
[19:47:57] <wjp> quite a number of quests there
[19:48:16] <wjp> easy xp :-)
[19:49:09] <Colourless> yeah
[19:49:26] <Colourless> i did some of them at the start, but for whatever reason i left most of them unfinished :-)
[19:49:37] <Colourless> now they are all pathetically easy :-)
[19:49:42] <wjp> :-)
[19:49:48] <wjp> did you find the watch yet?
[19:50:38] <Colourless> no, i don't think so. I may have done that before, but i can't remember, the npc conversations suggets i haven't
[19:51:05] <wjp> hm, isn't it listed on your pip boy quest list?
[19:52:20] <Colourless> it's listed, but i could have sworn i did find it and return it. I'm thinking that i 'might' have found it, but reloaded to an earlier savegame for whatever reason and continued on without doing it
[19:52:40] <wjp> you'd remember if you found it; trust me :-)
[19:52:54] <Colourless> outhouse :-)
[19:52:58] <wjp> yes :-)
[19:53:45] <Colourless> there is a computer in the outhouse (why i don't know). how do you get the 'goo' off of it?
[19:53:59] <wjp> a computer?
[19:54:04] <wjp> never noticed that
[19:54:18] <Colourless> yeah. there's a computer
[19:57:56] <Colourless> http://www.users.on.net/triforce.scr00005.png the mouse is pointing to where it is.
[19:58:14] <Colourless> http://www.users.on.net/triforce/scr00005.png
[19:59:47] <wjp> ok, just reached modoc
[20:01:34] * wjp hmms
[20:03:45] <wjp> 149% repair can't do anything with it
[20:06:09] <wjp> how did you ever find that computer? :-)
[20:07:02] <Colourless> when you move close to opposite wall which you can see through, the wall behind the computer is also not drawn. the thing is, the computer still is drawn
[20:09:03] <wjp> is your game before or after blowing everything up?
[20:10:10] <Colourless> before
[20:11:04] <wjp> ok, so the computer didn't get goo-ed by the blast
[20:11:06] <wjp> pity :-)
[20:11:16] <wjp> at this point a disassembler would be nice :-)
[20:12:55] * Colourless points wjp to http://fallout.blackisle.com
[20:13:16] <wjp> ooh!
[20:13:49] <wjp> hm, is that an .exe?
[20:14:23] <Colourless> hmm, yes it is
[20:15:27] <wjp> is there a similar thing for Fallout 1?
[20:15:50] <Colourless> no, only fallout2
[20:16:09] <Colourless> only 2.6 mb, shouldn't take me long to download.
[20:16:18] <Colourless> it's probably a self extracting zip file
[20:16:26] <wjp> I hope so :-)
[20:16:39] <wjp> although wine is able to run most self-extracters I think
[20:16:54] <Colourless> of course it might be a installshield install from the web package
[20:17:30] <wjp> unzip doesn't recognize it
[20:17:54] <Colourless> then it's probably the latter
[20:18:05] <wjp> it doesn't look like an installshield thingie
[20:18:32] <Colourless> ah well, i'll find out in 6 minutes
[20:18:47] <wjp> it is a self extracting thingie though
[20:22:15] <wjp> well, those scripts are pretty much unreadable
[20:23:00] <Colourless> ok, how unreadable is unreadable?
[20:23:10] <wjp> some parts are worse than others
[20:23:24] <wjp> but for one thing there is no real conversation text in there
[20:23:46] <wjp> hm, some parts are actually quite well commented
[20:23:58] <Colourless> 15 seconds
[20:24:46] <wjp> obvious spoiler warnings apply, btw :-)
[20:25:03] <wjp> the scripts are organized in directories per location
[20:25:21] <wjp> so you might see some things you don't want to see
[20:26:18] <Colourless> text is probably in one of the data files and the scrips probably reference the
[20:26:19] <Colourless> m
[20:26:24] <wjp> yeah
[20:28:41] <Colourless> ok, these aren't quite that unreadable
[20:28:52] <Colourless> now i've got to find which one is the computer script :-)
[20:29:16] <wjp> the word 'computer' doesn't appear in any of the scripts in modoc/
[20:37:58] <Colourless> most strange. the editor is in the game so to speak
[20:38:29] <Colourless> i started the editor and pressed esc and the in game menu came up. i then started to play, but it was still in the editor
[20:40:46] <Colourless> hmm, the edit' obj dude' option allows you to change your stats :-)
[20:44:08] <Colourless> ok, there is actually another computer down there too :-)
[20:44:26] <Colourless> they don't have scripts attached so i don't think you can do anything at all with them
[20:47:12] <wjp> pity :-)
[20:48:52] <Colourless> funny, they may comments about the editor not being what you'd expect from a rpg editor, but, imo, it looks to be what i'd expect
[20:56:22] <wjp> "expectations for a commercially-released RPG editor"
[20:57:44] <wjp> hm, it does seem to run here in wine
[20:57:49] <wjp> (not surprising since the game runs too)
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