#pentagram@irc.freenode.net logs for 24 Oct 2010 (GMT)

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[00:18:22] <servus> http://www.reddit.com/r/gaming/comments/dvao7/installexe_your_mother_was_a_hampster_2/ Pentagram :) (SFW)
[00:23:28] <servus> Aiera has been very busy! http://www.reddit.com/r/gaming/comments/duhk9/pentagram_the_crossplatform_ultima_8_engine_gets/
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[10:23:24] <wjp> servus: traffic to our website really spiked when aiera ran the story
[11:07:26] <dominus> funny how in the one thread people don't realize how long Pentagram has been in development - dosbox didn't cut it back then :)
[11:08:04] <dominus> and the other one is much more funny since they only talk about angelfire, tripod, geocities... and stanaic hamsters :)
[11:09:31] <wjp> :-)
[11:10:21] <wjp> over 6 years old now
[11:11:20] <wjp> Exult is over a decade old...
[11:12:51] <dominus> and that is really amazing :)
[11:13:35] <dominus> when was pentagram added to exult cvs? since our cvs is gone, I can'T see it... :)
[11:14:50] <wjp> hm, all old revisions should still be in pentagram's "old" svn module
[11:15:30] <wjp> a "start of shape & map viewer" commit was 2 Jan 2002
[11:16:06] <dominus> yeah, I just saw some of the dates...
[11:16:39] <wjp> pentagram.cpp was created 9 Dec 2002
[11:17:38] <dominus> pentagram is already really really old :)
[11:17:47] <dominus> without any release up to now...
[11:17:57] * dominus is not volunteering as release manager
[11:18:55] <dominus> I'm planning to make the normal configure&make procedure more os x friendly next week, so you can make bundle and dmg without the makefile.macosx
[11:19:50] <dominus> and seeing about making snapshots as well, probably will need to do some manual hacking there because of sdl_ttf dpendency...
[11:20:02] <wjp> sounds good
[11:20:30] <dominus> hacking for making a static compile - same problem as with sdl_mixer in Exult :)
[11:21:32] <wjp> with the annoying complication that we're not going to get rid of SDL_ttf :-)
[11:22:06] <dominus> hopefuly I can make enough sense of Marzo's changes to exult that I can adjust pentagram's system
[11:22:58] <dominus> yeah, I'm not even proposing to get rid of sdl_ttf... though isn't that included somewhat in SDL 1.3x? (just guessing - not knowing)
[11:23:15] <dominus> will take a closer look next week anyway
[11:23:26] <dominus> now I need to go on a walk with my gf :)
[11:23:53] <wjp> hm, I never heard about ttf in SDL 1.3, but that doesn't necessarily mean anything
[11:24:00] <wjp> ok; I hope it doesn't rain as badly there as here :-)
[11:24:15] <dominus> nice weather here :)
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[15:08:07] <dominus> I'm having a great time figuring out how to do the static linking magic in configure.ac from Exult...
[15:08:26] <dominus> so far all I do seems logical... I wonder if it will actually work :)
[15:16:25] <watt> OS X getting some love?
[15:16:49] <wjp> hi watt
[15:16:56] <watt> hi.
[15:20:45] <dominus> hi
[15:21:17] <dominus> yes, I want to adapt the changes we did to exult to OS X to have it built statically through a ./configure option
[15:23:08] <watt> Sure. Not familiar with it, but if it makes things easier...
[15:23:39] <dominus> it wouldn't need to pull in all the stuff on building like your script does now
[15:24:15] <dominus> and I could offer to do the snapshots as well, but I don'T want to to step on your toes :)
[15:25:00] <watt> I haven't exactly been keeping up, so I'm not really worried about that.
[15:25:45] <watt> The only things that concern me is the universal binary and the targeted SDK for minimum OS X version.
[15:26:22] <dominus> what is that on your build? currently for Exult I produce a universal ppc and intel 32/64bit one
[15:26:35] <dominus> target 10.4 for ppc and intel 32bit
[15:27:14] <dominus> though the intel 32bit is NOT tested on a 10.4 system
[15:28:32] <watt> looks like I had MacOSX10.4u.sdk for ppc & intel 32 bit
[15:29:05] <watt> They removed the 10.3.9 SDK from modern versions
[15:29:50] <watt> and I tried to target MacOSX10.5.sdk for the 64-bit, but never bothered including in the universal
[15:31:24] <dominus> I only managed to build a 64bit for the 10.6 sdk, but with a plist trick in the bundle Leopard will not try to run the 64bit and chocke on it
[15:37:57] <watt> Cool. You actually have older OSes to check against? I've just been trusting the output, hoping someone would say if it didn't work
[15:39:18] <dominus> yes, I have a mac mini slaved via vnc with 10.4 ppc and a VM with intel 10.5
[15:39:24] <dominus> and my main system is 10.6
[15:39:47] <watt> Awesome.
[15:39:57] <dominus> so testing can be done on 10.4 ppc, 10.5 intel and 10.6 (intel)
[15:40:33] <dominus> also I have some people on the Exult forum who can confirm my testing if I ask nicely :)
[15:41:41] <dominus> damn... linking errored out with sdl_ttf :(
[15:42:44] <dominus> but at least the makefile was made correctly...
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[15:44:36] <watt> Cool, it compiled faster than I thought it would. I built a new snapshot with the current process. I'll upload it now, then maybe I can help on the new stuff.
[15:44:54] <dominus> cool, thanks
[15:46:01] <dominus> I'll see to it that I clean the configure.ac up, might still have some exult_only stuff in it from my copy/paste job
[15:46:46] <dominus> and building my own sdl_ttf and libpng. for quick testing I use MacPorts stuff but for Snapshots I use my own builts
[16:01:05] <dominus> wjp, watt, if you could review https://sourceforge.net/tracker/?func=detail&aid=3094226&group_id=53819&atid=471708 or http://pastebin.com/pDMxUt57
[16:01:38] <dominus> this is only for static building yet. no bundle or dmg creation yet
[16:05:50] <watt> lol @ static linking comments - yeah I think I remember running into that
[16:07:38] <dominus> just to clarify, all this magic is not my thinking, it's actually from Marzo from the exult team
[16:07:52] <dominus> and yes, static linking is a bitch on OS X
[16:12:10] <wjp> is there anything libtool could do for us?
[16:13:56] <dominus> libpng-config is there and could probably be used (same as sdl-config is used)
[16:14:11] <dominus> sdl_ttf and zlib need all manual work
[16:14:24] <wjp> do you have .la files for these libraries?
[16:14:38] <wjp> (next to the .dylib and/or .so and/or .a ones)
[16:14:51] <watt> btw, I think I needed my own freetype build to get sdl_tff to work properly
[16:15:13] <dominus> yes, la files are there
[16:15:41] <dominus> watt: the freetype might be the reason for my error
[16:16:09] <wjp> dominus: could you try taking the normal dynamic link command, and adding a 'libtool --mode=link' in front of it?
[16:16:35] <dominus> wjp: how do I do that?
[16:16:55] <wjp> if you build pentagram dynamically, what is the final link command that builds the pentagram binary?
[16:17:13] <wjp> oh, wait, that is _very_ long, I guess
[16:17:27] <wjp> use pastebin :-)
[16:17:47] <dominus> ok, will take a moment
[16:19:01] <wjp> I'll try in linux too
[16:19:25] <wjp> it would be nice if libtool could automatically do this, but I don't know
[16:20:13] <dominus> watt, yes freetype was my linking problem, linked to the one from macports it worked. I'll also try what happens if I use my self compiled sdl_ttf
[16:21:58] <dominus> but freetype needs to be included anyway into the static linking for it to work, I guess
[16:22:43] <dominus> otoh... os x does always come with freetype.... things to try... :)
[16:23:50] <dominus> wjp: http://pastebin.com/bDmrsHcL
[16:23:56] <wjp> hm, trying to make libtool do static linking for me breaks on SDL pulling in opengl stuff :-(
[16:24:07] <wjp> right
[16:25:00] <wjp> try: 'libtool --mode=link --tag=CXX g++ -g -o pentagram [all those .o's] -all-static -L/opt/local/lib -lz -framework Cocoa [...]'
[16:25:24] <wjp> (i.e., add 'libtool --mode=link --tag=CXX' at the front, and '-all-static' near the end)
[16:25:40] <dominus> ok
[16:25:56] <wjp> no idea if it has any chance of succeeding...
[16:28:36] <dominus> breaks here too (on quartz)
[16:29:03] <dominus> (and joystick and so on...)
[16:29:56] <wjp> ah well, pity
[16:30:52] <dominus> yes, too bad
[16:31:21] <dominus> I have to peel potatoes now but will report back with my freetype/SDL_ttf findings :)
[16:58:44] <watt> might also note: gcc version matters. Snow leopard shipped with a gcc-4.2.1 derivative for targeting the 10.6 SDK and a gcc-4.0.1 derivative for targeting the older SDKs - ran into a problem on that a while back
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[21:52:09] <dominus> getting somewhere... for freetype to work, I had to include the systems freetype and got a working static 64bit pentagram
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[22:22:23] <dominus> watt, when you are reading this, your ppc build needs to be built against SDL 1.2 Mercurial (or development snapshot). The release version of SDL 1.2.14 was buggy for OS X since it changed byte order around. on PPC this resulted in green tinted colors
[22:22:55] <dominus> actually the whole snapshot should be built against mercurial
[22:23:17] <dominus> OR you run autogen.sh in the sdl 1.2.14 sources
[22:27:07] <dominus> I need to build freetype myself as well. including Apple's freetype is not working for ppc
[22:45:12] <dominus> he he, and I wondered why my static binary was so much bigger than your whole app bundle... well, if I include the pentagram resources with each arch build... :)
[22:49:39] <wjp> :-)
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[23:01:07] <dominus> hq2x throws some warnings when compiling it in 64bit, will add a report tomorrow... now I only need to bring my environment in order (need to build sdl_ttf against my self compiled freetype and not the systems)
[23:46:13] <dominus> watt, if you want to give it a try, my threeway (ppc, intel 32/64bit) universal app bundle http://dl.dropbox.com/u/7737184/Pentagram.zip