#pentagram@irc.freenode.net logs for 25 Feb 2006 (GMT)

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[04:54:32] <litost> thank you for such a wonderful piece of software!
[04:54:51] <litost> I can't remember the last time I played ultima!
[05:00:45] <SB-X> I last played it two weeks ago. :)
[05:04:15] <litost> My last time was months after it was released.
[05:04:21] <litost> I almost want to cry.
[05:17:29] <SB-X> HMM, I don't think I had a computer then. But the last Ultima I played was U7. I've only played a little of U8.
[05:18:11] <SB-X> I'm more interested in playing Crusader with Pentagram.
[05:18:23] <SB-X> but U8 too
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[11:49:13] <Darke2> There's something... odd about looking up old games and having the screenshots for the games be smaller then the flash advertisment on the same page.
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[12:09:53] <SB-X> haha
[12:10:14] <SB-X> Use Firefox+FlashBlock and avoid those humorous situations.
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[12:11:08] * Darke2 doesn't hunt down details of old games very often. Was bored and decided to wander around the web looking for crusader and ultima8 stuff.
[12:11:16] * Darke2 <- Very, Very Bored(tm).
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[12:17:28] <sbx> INTERNET!!!
[12:17:47] * Darke2 must admit some of the quotes from the reviews of the Crusaders are quite amusing. *grin*
[12:18:02] * Darke2 ties sbx to the channel.
[12:19:27] <sbx> thank you but my ISP is stronger than your rope
[12:19:45] <wjp> hi
[12:19:49] <sbx> hi wjp
[12:20:08] <wjp> Darke2: do you have any objections to switching to subversion?
[12:21:03] <Darke2> Nope. Sounds good to me.
[12:21:11] <sbx> Darke2: I was going to say "What did you find? I havn't found much Crusader stuff." and then "except boxcovers and a few reviews".
[12:21:51] <sbx> you must have predicted my question and answered even though it didnt go through :)
[12:22:06] * Darke2 moved most of his projects at work to subversion a few months ago and much prefers it. Diffs and such are much snappier when the network is not involved. *grin*
[12:22:19] <Darke2> SB-X: Heh.
[12:22:30] <sbx> yay
[12:24:02] <Darke2> One of the quotes I was amused at said something along the lines of "the video clips are done by actors, and all parts are well acted by people who obviously enjoy the roles they were playing". Given most of the actors were Origin staff I can understand why they were having so much fun. *grin*
[12:25:52] <sbx> I liked that, although it seems a little odd for a videogame.
[12:26:48] <sbx> you mean Origin staff can act?
[12:27:35] * Darke2 remembers the videos being cheesy but they worked. *grin*
[12:27:38] <Darke2> Apparently so. *grin*
[12:27:50] <sbx> Well, some of them at least.
[12:28:38] <sbx> It's funny when the Senator shoots another guy with a "ray gun" that shoots sparks.
[12:29:30] <sbx> extreme special effects there
[12:29:36] <sbx> extremely well done even
[12:30:40] <Darke2> http://www.pcgamer.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=3514&start=0 Photos of Crusader posters and t-shirts he apparently got from Mark Vittek. *grin*
[12:31:07] <sbx> hehe, I remember someone posted that link before
[12:31:55] <sbx> I've got the WC:Prophecy poster in digital form, but I wouldn't mind having the real posters. :\
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[12:54:31] <Darke2> http://www.cyberionsystems.com/ <- Apparently these guys are trying to work on a Crusader sequal called "No Hope". Doesn't seem to have much in the way of information though.
[12:56:42] <sbx> HMM
[12:57:07] <sbx> I'd like to work on a few sequels/remakes like that.
[12:57:23] <sbx> fan-games
[12:57:40] <Darke2> http://www.gamespot.com/pc/adventure/crusadernoremorse/show_msgs.html?topic_id=14607964 This thread is interesting. Has a mention of a developer who's tried to get the rights off EA to make a sequel and failed. Also has a link to an alpha of that No Hope thing.
[12:57:53] <sbx> http://cyberionsystems.com/echosector/data/news.html
[12:58:05] <sbx> well at least they tried
[12:58:56] <sbx> Hmm, I always miss the "titles" of message board topics at first glance. "Does anyone miss this?"
[12:59:03] <sbx> yes I missed it :p
[12:59:09] <sbx> and wondered what they were talking about
[12:59:25] <Darke2> http://www.cyberionsystems.com/crusader/ Another subsite on that site devoted to crusader. *grin* This one looks to have all the patches, etc too, but also has a bootable dos disk or something setup to play. Might be worth using for virtual PC or similar.
[12:59:36] <Darke2> Heh.
[12:59:46] <sbx> ah k
[12:59:59] <sbx> How about a Pentagram Crusader modification?
[13:00:16] <sbx> if Pentagram were to be as modifiable as Exult, that would be the way to go
[13:00:32] <sbx> no pressure though k?
[13:01:59] * Darke2 ducks behind wjp.
[13:05:13] <Darke2> Hrm... according to IGN, Regret was released in Dec 1996 in the US, and in Feb 1998 in Europe... I wonder what was with the over a year delay?
[13:05:40] <Darke2> It was apparently released in Japan in 1998 also... I guess this is a reason not to support Crusader so we don't have to support another japanese version? *grin*
[13:05:55] <sbx> Iie.
[13:09:00] <Darke2> Of course if we ever get any support, someone's going to report a bug that "The Playstation version of No Regret doesn't work with pentagram" anyway, so there's another reason to avoid supporting it! *grin*
[13:12:55] <sbx> What format is the music of U8 in?
[13:14:02] <wjp> xmidi I think
[13:14:25] <sbx> Oh. So the AMF music is exclusive to Crusader.
[13:14:51] <sbx> That music is one of the best features of the game.
[13:16:22] <wjp> one of these days we should start with some crusader 'groundwork' in pentagram
[13:22:43] <Darke2> *nod* Right after we add Lost Vale support! *hides!*
[13:23:01] <wjp> right! :-)
[13:27:45] <wjp> let's see if I can convince cvs2svn to create pentagram/trunk and web/trunk instead of trunk/web and trunk/pentagram...
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[13:47:21] <wjp> a simple 's~trunk/pentagram~pentagram/trunk~ in the dumpfile seems to work ;-)
[13:47:31] <sbx> yay
[14:08:10] * Darke2 thinks the most amusing thing of hunting down games in other languages is that you often trip over cheat sites that have translated the english cheats into the local language. Even with the No Regret cheats translated into chinese I can still understand them. *grin*
[14:18:10] <Darke2> Looks like the two Crusaders were translated into Simplified Chinese too...
[14:19:22] <wjp> another character encoding to support... yay :/
[14:20:06] <Darke2> http://www.csjbbs.com/Games/down/364.html "Heart Crusaders: Absolutely Not Compassion"
[14:20:13] <Darke2> http://www.csjbbs.com/Games/down/364.html "Heart Crusaders 2: No Regret"
[14:20:53] * Darke2 suggests squeesing them into google's translator to get something more readable. *grin*
[14:23:01] * wjp ponders merging the pentagram-old history from Exult's CVS into the SVN repository
[14:23:33] <wjp> _should_ be possible, especially since all commit dates on it are before the first commit into pentagram's CVS
[14:29:13] <Darke2> Should work I guess. Though it'd probably be easier just to have them as two seperate repositories, probably not as tidy though.
[14:32:32] * Darke2 hrms... and is starting to think that csjbbs is some sort of chinese 'abandonware' site or something. Given that he's found X-Com 1/2/3 there as 'Youfu' 1/2/3 and apparently available for download like the two crusaders. Not that what claim to be download links work, or that I trust the translation further then I can throw it.
[14:37:18] * Darke2 gives up and returns to reading stuff he can actually understand. *grin*
[14:44:23] <wjp> wow, pentagram-old in exult CVS already had 700+ revisions
[14:44:43] <wjp> the entire pentagram CVS only has about 1400 in total
[14:48:25] <Darke2> Cool. I guess that's what happens when we're doing lots of quick commits after working stuff out, vs larger 'functionality' commits once we work things out.
[14:49:18] <Darke2> Err... or something. *404.312734...: brain not quite found error*
[15:26:13] * sbx gives Darke2 a carrot.
[15:31:39] <wjp> ok... I successfully merged the two repositories, I think
[15:31:51] * Darke2 gnaws on the carrot, bunnylike.
[15:31:56] <Darke2> Ooooh! Yay!
[15:32:18] <wjp> next step: adding 'copyfrom' links to moved/copied files
[18:03:20] <wjp> this must be one of the more annoying tasks ever :-)
[18:03:30] <wjp> just reached 2005; only one more year left
[18:35:06] <Fingolfin> wjp: keep up the good work :)
[18:35:11] <Fingolfin> hm
[18:39:28] <wjp> (july 2005... almost there)
[18:46:18] <wjp> feb 2006 :-)
[18:48:45] <wjp> Fingolfin: why the 'hm'?
[18:50:27] <Fingolfin> oh I was just repressing a very stupid joke about it taking you only one more year and so on.
[18:50:48] <wjp> :-)
[18:50:52] <Fingolfin> Of course now I failed to surpress it, kind of, so I am afraid my low reputation just got lowered even more despite all my brave attempts to stop my stupid humor =)
[18:51:32] <wjp> actually I cheated a bit and only fixed the move links from the 'new' pentagram CVS
[18:51:52] <Fingolfin> ah-ha! I *knew* you couldn't be that fast w/o cheating !
[18:53:45] <wjp> I'm a bit afraid to touch the old pentagram module in exult CVS :-)
[18:56:40] <wjp> ...but I guess I would regret it later if I don't fix it now
[19:00:46] <Fingolfin> yeah
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[19:31:46] <SB-X> INTERNET!
[19:32:34] <wjp> hi :-)
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[20:07:12] <wjp> *phew*
[20:07:13] <wjp> all done
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[21:17:24] <wjp> I hope that cvs2svn with a mime.types extension->mime-type mapping got all svn:mime-types and svn:eol-style properties right
[21:17:41] <wjp> I only spotted one problem, and that was a source file with CRLF line endings in the repository
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[21:44:35] <SB-X> :\
[21:45:27] <SB-X> yay for SVN once again :p
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[21:58:53] <watt> hi everyone!
[21:59:16] <wjp> hi watt
[21:59:40] <wjp> is your opinion on using SVN still the same as it was 1 or 2 years ago?
[22:00:19] <watt> what was is it that long ago? I imagine it's the same - love it.
[22:01:41] <wjp> so it looks like everybody is ok with moving to svn :-)
[22:02:38] <watt> I do have to wonder what SF commit messages will look like under SVN - I use commitmessage.tigris.org at work
[22:03:01] <wjp> they're somewhat less-than-optimal, unfortunately
[22:03:19] <wjp> in particular the subject line has too much junk at the start
[22:03:45] <wjp> example from scummvm:
[22:03:57] <wjp> [Scummvm-cvs-logs] SF.net SVN: scummvm: [20888] scummvm/trunk/configure
[22:04:30] <watt> Do we get access to the svn hooks directories - I imagine not...
[22:04:35] <wjp> no
[22:04:55] <wjp> they have a fixed set of hooks we can enable individually
[22:05:06] <watt> oh well... are the messages the entire revision or per directory?
[22:05:14] <wjp> per revision
[22:05:39] <wjp> the message subject has the largest common prefix of all committed files
[22:06:05] <watt> Yay!
[22:08:13] <watt> very easy to find out what all changed in a certain revision that way.... I actually use my mail client at work to search for when a fix was applied (or a bug introduced) quite often
[22:10:09] <wjp> yeah, I do the same in the cvs commits ML
[22:10:53] <watt> anyway... I'm looking through some of my other old end-of-dos era games - perhaps look through and parse data from them as a learning exercise...
[22:12:06] <wjp> Fingolfin has submitted a feature request to SF to turn off the large prefix in the svnnotify mails, by the way
[22:12:15] <wjp> which games?
[22:12:33] <watt> found one game interesting, Normality, which appears to have a manual building software on the cd
[22:12:59] <watt> and for some reason, source code in the manual directory
[22:14:34] <wjp> source code? of the game?
[22:15:03] <watt> no... appartenly o the manual viewer
[22:15:14] <wjp> how peculiar
[22:15:42] <wjp> hm, running bzip2 on a 160Mb dump file is taking rather long :-)
[22:16:14] <wjp> I spent a large part of today converting our CVS into a subversion repository, properly linking up all moves and things like that
[22:19:42] <wjp> I'll submit it to SF to be 'svnadmin load'-ed, and it should then be online tomorrow hopefully
[22:21:06] <watt> one file, numbers.c, makes a small executable that simply counts from a low value to a high value ans printf's them to the screen.... a bit silly.
[22:21:10] <watt> cool
[22:22:21] <wjp> hehe, so can we conclude from that that the programmers were still learning C? :-)
[22:25:43] <watt> hehe... that's mean. I think they just wanted a utility to do that in dos and figured it would be faster to code ten lines of C than use one of 18 million other methods
[22:26:26] <wjp> I guess seq does come in useful rather often, yes :-)
[22:28:27] <wjp> dump uploaded and migration request submitted
[22:28:52] <watt> yay!
[22:29:45] <watt> It's still strange that the numbers program is even on the cd... doesn't seem to be used anywhere
[22:31:29] <watt> actually.. it might be used in an ini file to count from 1 to 18 - but that seems bit much
[22:31:41] <wjp> by the way, this is the list of hooks we can enable:
[22:31:49] <wjp> check-case-insensitive
[22:31:54] <wjp> check-mime-type
[22:31:58] <wjp> ciabot_svn
[22:32:03] <wjp> svnnotify
[22:32:40] <wjp> first one prevents you from adding files that would clash on a case insensitive filesystem, second one forbids adding files without a mime type, third one notifies CIA, fourth one sends mail
[22:32:49] <watt> I know case insensitive checks, while it could save headaches, tends to be slow.
[22:33:10] <wjp> I see no real reason to enable that one
[22:33:18] <watt> windows users.
[22:33:41] <wjp> I meant that I don't expect us to create files that would clash
[22:34:11] <watt> renaming a file to fix case in svn tends to break the next svn up in windows
[22:35:03] <watt> I've messed that up once. And people at work once or twice.... still, easy enough to avoid
[22:35:27] <wjp> how easy is 'unbreaking' the working copy after such a failed svn up?
[22:35:38] <watt> "third one notifies CIA"... huh?
[22:35:50] <wjp> this CIA: http://cia.navi.cx/
[22:37:13] <watt> oh... uh a bit.... usually the best way is to remove the directory in which the failure happened and update again... I think that usually works.. but might mean you need to check out again.
[22:38:23] <wjp> hm, moderately annoying
[22:38:46] <wjp> ah well, if it turns out to be a problem we can always enable that hook later
[22:42:13] <watt> yup.
[22:42:45] <wjp> I think I'll enable the mime-type and svnnotify ones
[22:43:23] <watt> sounds good
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[23:29:15] <wjp> hm, that was faster than expected: svn import completed, apparently :-)
[23:29:19] <wjp> hi Colourless