#pentagram@irc.freenode.net logs for 25 Jun 2005 (GMT)

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[17:50:39] <wjp> megawatt: around?
[17:51:19] <wjp> I recall you mentioned something about a new plan for handling palettes in the gimp plugin, but I can't remember the details
[17:51:33] <wjp> was wondering if the same idea would be useful for the Exult gimp plugin
[17:52:22] <wjp> I've been using the Exult gimp plugin again a bit recently, and its current palette handling is not quite optimal :-)
[18:08:35] <sbx> hi wjp
[18:32:09] <wjp> hi
[18:44:37] <sbx> i don't think he's around
[18:55:41] <megawatt> here.
[18:55:48] <wjp> sbx: I think he is ;-)
[18:55:59] <wjp> hi megawatt
[18:57:02] <megawatt> It would be nice to try to have a single plugin to handle both U8 and U7 shapes
[18:57:19] <sbx> I see nothing! :p
[18:57:44] <wjp> there are a couple of features I'd like, but I'm not sure how much a plugin can actually 'do'
[18:58:00] <megawatt> but for the meantime.. yeah, I like the palette handling in the pentagram one (except for the crusader ones not working :(
[18:58:05] <wjp> one thing is somehow 'disabling' all palette entries with special meaning
[18:58:21] <wjp> (transparency/translucency, palette cycling)
[18:58:41] <wjp> possibly by simply turning them bright purple or something
[18:59:28] <megawatt> oh... like the old wolf3d shape editor?
[18:59:52] <wjp> in a certain sense, yes
[19:00:23] <wjp> the main reason for it is that when copying new art into a shape, you often don't want to use the special colors
[19:01:13] <wjp> but the gimp has the tendency to pick them anyway, unless I first change them to a colour that definitely won't be used
[19:01:51] <wjp> so if there's an option to (temporarily) disable those extra colours, you can't accidentally use them
[19:04:20] <megawatt> not sure I follow.... ok, the shapes are indexes... you copy custom art over the shape.. and it switches the palette of modifies the new art use the palette?
[19:04:51] <megawatt> Or is this a new art without using a old art example first?
[19:05:33] <wjp> the process I use is typically something like:
[19:05:55] <wjp> receive art from artist in png format (or some other non-shape) format
[19:06:25] <wjp> I find a u7 shape which is of the same general type as the new item
[19:06:26] <megawatt> oh, the art in the exult forums..... I see
[19:06:38] <wjp> I copy the new art, and paste it into the u7 image
[19:06:58] <wjp> this causes the gimp to automatically pick the 'right' (colour-wise) palette entries for the colours in the new art
[19:07:21] <wjp> unfortunately the 'right' palette entry might be one used for translucency or cycling
[19:08:02] <wjp> similarly, when using some of the gimp's transformations/effects, it might pick one of those wrong colours
[19:10:41] <megawatt> ok... so exult (and pentagram?) use certain colours for translucency?
[19:15:41] <wjp> yes
[19:17:04] <wjp> and u7 additionally palette-cycles certain ranges of colours
[19:17:44] <megawatt> Ok... so, what we really want is to not used an indexed image, and let the plugin handle translation to the colours to the palette ignoring unsafe ones and giving a preview of what it should look like in the game.
[19:18:17] <wjp> not sure about that
[19:18:36] <megawatt> while still loading the palette and naming the colours so users know which ones are "safe"....
[19:18:49] <megawatt> I may be going overboard on that concept
[19:19:37] <wjp> pity palette entries can't have alpha values :-)
[19:24:06] <megawatt> but the alpha would confuse the ultima artist. The result would be somone drawing over the old colour and it creating a mix of the two, right? I think the best way is to describe the colours in the palette..... hmmm... and at that level of intimate knowledge of the palette, perhaps just build it into the plugin...
[19:24:52] <megawatt> I don't imagine we would get in any trouble for copying palettes so long as it isn't the original files.
[19:27:54] <megawatt> hmmm...
[19:36:26] <megawatt> hmmm.. gimp palette files (.gpl ... hehe) are pretty easy to create and read... a quick tool to create the palette file from the u7, u8, and crusader palette probably would be pretty easy. Then alter the description to have certain "flags" in the front to tell the plugin what the colour does.... i dunno
[19:42:01] <megawatt> anyway... I gotta hit the gym
[19:42:19] <wjp> enjoy :-)
[19:47:23] <sbx> wjp: did you see I finished deus ex yesterday?
[19:47:43] <sbx> now I'm messing with the cheats wondering how to spawn hostiles
[19:48:59] <sbx> I want to drop a group of hostile and friendly military bots into the city and see who wins.
[19:49:29] <sbx> the engine is really good at handling large areas and dozens of actors at a time
[19:50:10] <sbx> anyway, sorry about the off-topic
[19:50:14] <sbx> maybe i have to do that in the map editor
[19:51:26] <wjp> heh, I've talked endlessly about Deus Ex in here as well back when I was playing it :-)
[19:51:33] <wjp> don't worry about it being off-topic ;-)
[19:51:47] <wjp> congrats on finishing it; did you do all three endings?
[19:53:17] <sbx> yeah
[19:53:49] <sbx> thanks... i'ts a great game, and I the endings aren't bad
[19:54:54] <sbx> none of them are 100% positive, and ironically in at least two of them you simply trade one world ruler with another
[19:55:17] <sbx> http://www.math.leidenuniv.nl/~wpalenst/exultlog.php
[19:56:37] <sbx> http://www.math.leidenuniv.nl/~wpalenst/exultlog.php?log=25Jun2005
[19:58:16] <sbx> s/i'ts/It's/ :|
[20:13:54] <sbx> This is sad. Looking at mentions of "Deus Ex 2" in the #exult logs as hopefully the next contender for System Shock 2 gameplay. Didn't turn out that way, did it?
[20:14:12] <sbx> I didn't play it, but people on TTLG forums didn't like it.
[20:21:16] <sbx> also sad, scrolling my mousewheel down a little sometimes makes it scroll up
[20:21:29] <sbx> very annoying when reading logs
[20:21:35] <sbx> or other texts
[20:28:49] <wjp> yeah, my mouse does the same thing; it feels like the trigger for the wheel is sometimes a little misaligned from the positions to which the wheel snaps
[20:32:20] <sbx> yeah I think that's it, but I don't know how it happened (only like this for a month)
[20:32:25] <sbx> wjp: what does the name Vecna mean?
[20:33:54] <wjp> he's a legendary lich in the D&D world
[20:35:16] <wjp> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vecna
[20:35:50] <sbx> wikipedia saves the day again
[20:35:52] <sbx> thanks
[20:36:20] <sbx> I saw you said it was a common name in the logs. I never played D&D, but I have played other RPGs like Shadowrun.
[20:37:37] <sbx> he sounds like a swell guy
[20:41:06] <sbx> Die, Vecna, Die!
[20:41:19] <sbx> Does Planescape Torment have any relation to D&D?
[20:41:57] <wjp> it uses the AD&D rules, and the planescape setting
[20:42:19] <wjp> it takes place for a large part in the same Sigil mentioned in wikipedia's article on Vecna
[20:44:53] <sbx> do they have to get permission for that?
[20:44:55] <sbx> havn't played it yet
[20:47:44] <wjp> permission? who and for what?
[20:49:26] <sbx> TSR? To use AD&D setting, rules and possibly trademarks.
[20:50:02] <wjp> yeah, they needed a license for that
[20:51:56] <wjp> possibly the same one that let them do the Baldur's Gate and Icewind Dale games
[20:53:17] <sbx> same developers? ok (havn't played baldur's gate either though)
[20:53:26] <wjp> same engine
[20:53:59] <wjp> the "Infinity Engine"; it's quite well documented
[20:54:05] <wjp> gemrb.sf.net is doing a remake
[20:55:13] <sbx> oh, I seemed to remember screenshots looking very different
[20:56:03] <wjp> it does have a different 'feel' to it
[20:56:16] <wjp> I can really recommend playing PS:T
[20:57:09] <sbx> Neither are really on my games-to-play list, but PS:T is closer than BG.
[20:57:19] <sbx> the list is big enough as it is already
[20:58:24] <sbx> it was fun reading your initial introduction to Deus Ex in the logs
[20:59:06] <sbx> and then mine, which I vaguely remember... but your conversation with Colourless about it seems completely different now that I know what you're talking about :)
[21:00:08] <wjp> I actually managed to miss the first augmentation canister :-)
[21:05:42] <sbx> Let's see, the one at the top of Liberty Tower with the NSF commander?
[21:05:59] <sbx> I missed that at first but replayed and got it.
[21:06:38] <wjp> yeah
[21:08:01] <sbx> The one I missed was in the NSF basement. But most canisters are duplicated somewhere later in the game.
[21:08:45] <sbx> I'm not sure if there are enough upgrade canisters to bring everything to Level 4, but all of my augmentations were at Level 3 by the end of the game.
[21:09:00] <sbx> Level 4 is simulated with the Synthetic Heart.
[21:13:15] <sbx> #exult@irc.freenode.net logs for 4 May 2004 (GMT)
[21:13:16] <sbx> [16:57:31] <wjp> hm, Deus Ex is something I might want, right?
[21:13:16] <sbx> [17:01:06] <Colourless> yes :-)
[21:13:16] <sbx> [17:02:05] <wjp> I'm currently in a "let's buy some of these 'classics' while they're still available" mood :-)
[21:13:29] <wjp> I'm still in that mood ;-)
[21:14:31] <sbx> you got it only 4 days later
[21:15:07] <wjp> the reason I asked was probably that I was ordering some things from amazon.co.uk (so buying Deus Ex as well would save on shipping)
[21:15:50] <sbx> oh, that makes sense then
[21:15:53] <sbx> I don't do that often.
[21:16:09] <wjp> cross-referencing with scummvm logs would probably show I got some scumm games that week as well :-)
[21:16:53] <sbx> oh
[21:17:07] <sbx> yeah I could do that but you'd think I'm spying on you :)
[21:17:28] <sbx> #pentagram@irc.freenode.net logs for 11 May 2004 (GMT)
[21:17:29] <sbx> [16:53:58] <sbx> I don't know anything about deus ex... what is deus ex?
[21:17:29] <sbx> [16:54:09] <sbx> well I've *heard* the name
[21:17:29] <sbx> [16:54:09] <wjp> a game you should get :-)
[21:17:55] <sbx> that's when you were rooftop-fighting in Hell's Kitchen, NYC
[21:18:54] <sbx> so anyway, thanks to you and Colourless for introducing me to the game :)
[21:19:07] <sbx> I actually missed going into the sewers in NYC.
[21:19:33] <sbx> I knew Smuggler wanted me to find his friend, but I got carried away with the primary objectives and forgot I had a key to the manholes.
[21:20:32] <sbx> After that I remembered to always check my "nano-keyring" before getting out the lockpicks/demolitions or assuming I don't have the key yet.
[21:21:14] <sbx> that's fast delivery btw
[21:22:51] <wjp> 4 may -> 7 may, you mean?
[21:22:57] <wjp> well, the UK isn't that far away from here :-)
[21:25:05] <sbx> most things I buy online take a week
[21:25:37] <sbx> that's purchases from US sellers
[21:25:54] <sbx> then again, I never pay extra for shipping
[21:26:13] <sbx> ...and "a week" is probably the longest
[21:26:45] <sbx> and I'm probably including eBay sellers in this, who take their sweet time getting your package in the mail
[21:30:18] <sbx> it isn't that fast
[21:31:51] <sbx> wjp: Did you ever go for Targeting? Or Combat Strength?
[21:32:03] <wjp> I missed combat strength :-)
[21:32:25] <wjp> targeting... hm, never really used it
[21:32:34] <wjp> what was the other option for that augmentation?
[21:34:58] <sbx> Visual?
[21:35:31] <sbx> I don't remember the name. It gave you nightvision, infrared, and sonar vision.
[21:35:48] <sbx> Can't believe I didn't choose that. Targeting is useless.
[21:36:30] <sbx> The only interesting thing I got out of it was the ability to see Actor Class names, and that trees are named DEFAULT DECORATION - REPORT THIS AS A BUG.
[21:39:48] <sbx> But if you go with the other Aug (which I'm sure 99% of players do) you can see through friggin walls.
[21:39:55] <sbx> See through walls!
[21:40:05] <sbx> see enemies, anyway
[21:43:26] <sbx> Who is Cinni?
[21:43:52] <sbx> Oh, I can find out by reading more.
[21:57:48] <sbx> someone that knows Darke
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[22:56:22] <sbx> hi Colourless