#pentagram@irc.freenode.net logs for 26 Jul 2005 (GMT)

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[10:27:55] <wjp> hi Colourless
[10:32:33] <Colourless> hiya
[11:16:11] <Colourless> fixed up the book rendering issue
[11:16:36] <wjp> cool
[11:16:37] <Colourless> i think this 'may' also fix up some other rendering problems from around the place. not entire sure though
[11:16:59] <wjp> that fixes our only known plot-stopping bug :-)
[11:17:10] <Colourless> as i've was thinking of actually adding this change for a while (if overlapping in all dimensions then draw the one with the highest topz as the top)
[11:20:52] <Colourless> committed
[11:26:56] <wjp> I wonder if it's possible to finish u8 in pentagram now
[11:27:11] <Colourless> i'm going to guess yes
[11:28:01] <Colourless> if we can we really should declare ourselves as alpha level
[11:28:15] <Colourless> i saw some crusader stuff came up yesterday.
[11:28:27] <Colourless> as you noticed crusaders anim.dat is different
[11:28:37] * wjp nods
[11:28:40] <Colourless> annoyigly so is typeflag.dat
[11:29:08] <wjp> the main file structure or the meaning of the various bytes/bits?
[11:29:35] <Colourless> meaning of various bytes
[11:29:45] <Colourless> all i managed to figure out so far was the shape dimention info
[11:29:59] <Colourless> i am going to guess that the structure isn't all that different
[11:30:16] <Colourless> and more work on the crusader usecode intrinsics should help
[11:30:32] <Colourless> i've figure out maybe about 15 of them
[11:30:49] <Colourless> but i have sort of screwed up my file with them in it
[11:35:01] <wjp> once we get crusader at least running somewhat, the typeflags and intrinsics will be much easier to figure out, probably
[11:35:47] <wjp> I'm not in a hurry to start 'real' crusader support, though :-)
[11:36:36] <Colourless> me neither
[11:41:08] <wjp> I wonder if there are any things we should do before freezing the savegame format
[11:41:26] <wjp> combat mode flag for the pathfinder was one, but that's done
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[11:46:06] <SB-X> hi
[11:51:21] <wjp> hi
[11:51:49] <wjp> metadata will probably change at some point (when we add the gump for it), but increasing the version for that shouldn't be a problem
[11:52:34] <wjp> I'd like to make sure the savegames properly store for which game they are
[11:53:33] <Colourless> yes
[11:53:41] <Colourless> we need game version
[11:53:47] <Colourless> which we dn't work out yet
[11:54:05] <Colourless> or maybe storing file size and hashes for critical files like usecode
[11:55:32] <wjp> I wonder if this bug ( http://sourceforge.net/tracker/index.php?func=detail&aid=1018293&group_id=53819&atid=471706 ) might require savegame changes
[11:56:29] <Colourless> yeah...
[11:57:21] <wjp> Actor also doesn't store all fields from npcdat yet, it seems
[11:58:04] <wjp> e.g., falling damage will require either a field in Actor or in GravityTracker
[11:58:10] <Colourless> we should store everything even if we don't know what it means
[11:58:15] <wjp> or GravityProcess
[11:58:16] <Colourless> since that bit us in teh ass in exult
[12:03:49] <wjp> hm, can't quite remember the specifics of that
[12:04:33] <Colourless> in the older versions of exult we didn't load or save things that later versions needed
[12:04:43] <Colourless> in particular things lke NPC flags
[12:11:01] <wjp> can't really think of any other missing things in the savegame at the moment
[12:14:19] <wjp> oh, did you see the note on typeflags in MadHatter's most recent u8 tech docs?
[12:14:30] <wjp> of the unknowns apparently controls part of the rendering order
[12:14:59] <Colourless> yeah i saw something about that
[12:41:10] <wjp> we might want to solve the u8shapes.cmp problem before 'alpha' as well
[12:42:08] <Colourless> yeah
[12:45:05] <Colourless> we did work it out how to 'trivially' do the decompression
[12:45:31] <wjp> at runtime you mean?
[12:45:43] <Colourless> well it should be possible
[12:45:51] * wjp nods
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[12:52:42] <Colourless> will see if i can code something this week
[12:52:54] <Colourless> should have free time to do it
[13:03:52] <wjp> I hope it'll turn out to be fast enough
[13:04:02] <wjp> although I expect it will be
[13:04:33] <wjp> and people on slower computers can always uncompress them beforehand
[13:04:48] <Colourless> an 'installation' option
[13:06:38] <wjp> hm, installation of games... another thing to consider :-)
[13:07:03] <Colourless> something i was thinking is where do we decompress the shapes file too
[13:07:08] <Colourless> the static dir or somewhere else
[13:08:40] <wjp> I'd go with static
[13:09:14] <wjp> I wonder if our uncompressed u8shapes.flx is compatible with the original U8
[13:10:10] <Colourless> hmm no ide
[13:10:14] <Colourless> would be interesting to find out
[13:10:44] <SB-X> You can't store static on a read-only filesystem?
[13:10:50] <wjp> you can
[13:11:07] <wjp> but you might want to convert u8shapes.cmp to u8shapes.flx beforehand :-)
[13:11:21] <Colourless> was thinking it would be kind of cool to be able to run the games off of the cds
[13:11:31] <Colourless> i.e. u8 off of the uc cd
[13:11:50] <wjp> should be possible once we have on-the-fly decompression of u8shapes.cmp
[13:11:54] <SB-X> yeah :)
[13:14:57] <wjp> so we'd offer three 'setup' options? Play from already installed version on HD; play from CD; install from CD to HD
[13:15:09] <wjp> (or from floppy to HD, I guess)
[13:19:32] <wjp> thinking about what should happen the first time you start pentagram a bit...
[13:20:30] <wjp> first it'll need a place to store a config file
[13:21:20] <wjp> if that's not a problem, it can show some kind of 'welcome' screen
[13:21:32] <wjp> then try an auto-game-detect on the current directory
[13:21:39] <wjp> and maybe even on subdirs of the current directory
[13:22:05] <wjp> if it finds games there, list those games and offer to set them up automatically in the config file
[13:22:09] <Colourless> yeah that might be an interesting idea
[13:22:17] <Colourless> s/might be/is/
[13:22:25] <wjp> :-)
[13:22:58] <wjp> should also give the option of doing this auto-detect run again sometime
[13:24:18] <wjp> if it can not find games this way, maybe explain that you need u8 data files
[13:24:52] <wjp> and then offer to start the 'setup game' process
[13:25:27] <Colourless> yeah
[13:25:43] <wjp> this would then either be used to point at an existing installation on the harddisk, or to CD or copy of all flopies somewhere
[13:26:01] <Colourless> well i have to go now. will be on sometime tomorrow morning... might see you then. if not tomorrow afternoon
[13:26:12] <wjp> good night
[13:26:18] <Colourless> night
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[13:26:37] <SB-X> cya
[13:27:04] <wjp> I'm not looking forward to actually coding all this :-)
[13:27:53] <SB-X> assign it to Darke
[13:28:03] <SB-X> and then ask where he's been all this time
[13:28:40] <wjp> I wonder if we also want to translate this into german/french/spanish
[13:29:07] <wjp> would be easy to have some language flags in a corner somewhere to toggle the setup language at the start
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[17:24:40] <wjp> ugh, I broke teleporters again, it seems
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[17:35:32] <wjp> I'm starting to think interpolating animations is more trouble than it's worth :-)
[17:36:41] <SB-X> does U8 do that?
[17:37:39] <wjp> no
[17:37:58] <wjp> at least, I don't think so
[17:38:40] <wjp> if an animation frame takes 5 cycles and moves the actor 5 pixels, we currently move it one pixel per cycle
[17:39:00] <wjp> this causes all kinds of fun things to happen when partway through those 5 pixels 'something' happens
[17:39:17] <wjp> 'something' can be falling: this caused a bug with Mordea and Torwin not falling properly
[17:39:38] <wjp> 'something' can also be teleporting: this is now causing the actor to be teleported right back to finish his animation
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[17:46:17] <wjp> ok, fixed that one as well
[17:46:39] <wjp> hi megawatt
[17:46:44] * megawatt waves and continues work
[17:46:46] <SB-X> hi
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[17:47:14] <wjp> I have a candidate for custom memory management: PathNode in the pathfinder
[17:47:16] <megawatt> thought I'd stop by as the channel seems busy at this time
[17:47:52] * megawatt nodes.
[17:48:01] <wjp> :-)
[17:49:27] <wjp> there are at most 100 of those in use at the moment, but they're constantly being new-ed and delete-d
[17:49:37] <megawatt> I would help show potential leaks too... ie. the assertion would fail on shutdown.
[17:49:58] <wjp> hm, I doubt there would be leaks; it's keeping a linked list of all allocated nodes already :-)
[17:50:40] <megawatt> ah. good.. I thought we had a problem on that at some point in the distint past
[17:51:40] <wjp> quite possibly, yes :-)
[17:54:28] <megawatt> The one big thing I'd still like to figure out on the memory manager is finding what the classtype is.... but it might be too difficult to be worth it
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[18:49:31] <Shakkara> hey all
[19:11:02] <SB-X> hello
[19:13:13] <Shakkara> heya :)
[19:13:26] <Shakkara> some life in here heheheh
[19:16:03] <wjp> hi
[19:17:34] <Shakkara> hmm wjp could you help me viewing those crusader frames?
[19:27:05] <wjp> did you already find shapeconv somewhere?
[19:39:14] <Shakkara> yep
[19:39:41] <Shakkara> I got a modified version of shapes.flx (u8shapes.flx now)
[19:39:46] <Shakkara> is 4mb smaller
[19:40:07] <Shakkara> but all other tools refuse to start
[19:40:33] <Shakkara> they just dont do anything. in DOS the screen flashes for a millisecond and I'm returned to the command prompt
[19:41:45] <SB-X> i got as far as loading everything, then it gives a segfault
[19:42:03] <SB-X> it was hard to build shpdisp, is there a config option you have to enable?
[19:44:04] <wjp> ok, let's see what you need exactly for shpdisp
[19:44:25] * wjp runs 'strace -eopen ./shpdisp' :-)
[19:44:33] <wjp> you need:
[19:44:57] <wjp> u8pal.pal, u8shapes.flx, glob.flx, xformpal.dat, typeflag.dat, anim.dat, u8mouse.shp
[19:45:09] <SB-X> it will read gamepal.pal too
[19:45:36] <wjp> ah, indeed
[19:46:14] <wjp> so, gamepal.pal, u8shapes.flx, glob.flx, xformpal.dat, typeflag.dat, anim.dat, u8mouse.shp
[19:46:29] <wjp> you also need to use shapeconv to create u8mouse.shp
[19:46:36] <SB-X> ahh
[19:47:23] <SB-X> that's the only thing I didn't do
[19:48:12] <SB-X> and I also didn't use the --ofmt option to shapeconv
[19:49:23] <wjp> well, I managed to convince the build system to build shapeconv
[19:50:05] <wjp> removed Kernel from CoreApp, to be specific
[19:50:20] <SB-X> for me it just says Nothing to be done for shapeconv
[19:50:28] <SB-X> or something along those lines
[19:50:52] <SB-X> ok, got shpdisp working
[19:51:08] <SB-X> thanks wjp
[19:51:16] <SB-X> it was converting mouse.shp->u8mouse.shp that I missed yesterday
[19:51:56] <SB-X> hmm, was the silencer's animations motion captured?
[19:54:14] <Shakkara> hey I got something! but the silencer is blue lol
[19:54:28] <wjp> delete u8pal.pal
[19:57:26] <Shakkara> without U8pal it crashes with a runtime error on startup
[19:57:46] <Shakkara> its a renamed gamepal.pal though
[20:00:33] <Shakkara> but even with a blue silencer I have a lot, just need to make a screenshot, load it in MSpaint, repaint each frame, and then put it together with flash or something
[20:01:31] <SB-X> he's red for me
[20:04:39] <Shakkara> hmmm strange....
[20:04:55] <Shakkara> I also had some other things appear in wierd colors lately
[20:05:01] <Shakkara> should test on other PC
[20:11:35] <wjp> you need gamepal.pal
[20:11:47] <wjp> but not u8pal.pal
[20:12:00] <wjp> the name is important, not just the contents
[20:29:37] <Shakkara> yeah now its in color! thanks!!!
[20:57:55] <wjp> hm, I wonder if SDL should be in CoreApp
[21:03:33] <wjp> IDataSource uses some SDL functions for RWops it seems
[21:03:44] <wjp> I guess it'll keep SDL for now
[21:07:50] <megawatt> hmmm... would be nice for the tools to not depend on SDL, but probably not worth the time either. Actually, I might argue for the other direction and integrate the tools into the console... but I'm a little crazy so that suggestion should be ignored.
[21:09:18] <wjp> hm, interesting that Makefile.mingw doesn't seem to need SDL for the tools
[21:10:07] <wjp> maybe that's because those functions calling SDL function in IDataSource.h are inlines that aren't used anywhere in the tools
[21:12:33] <wjp> of course there's also a mention of SDL_Event in CoreApp.h
[21:12:42] * wjp thinks
[21:21:58] * megawatt spending a small amount of time looking a bochs.... any ideas how it compares to dosbox when bochs runs msdos? .... I'm still trying to think of a better u8 testing environment since my pc doesn't quite cut it for u8 and dosbox....
[21:22:13] <wjp> bochs is probably quite a bit slower
[21:22:25] <wjp> qemu is pretty nice
[21:22:36] <wjp> even runs win2k at fairly good speeds
[21:22:57] <wjp> which CPU do you have, by the way?
[21:23:50] <megawatt> 1Ghz p3 --- a relic of the past indeed
[21:29:22] <wjp> I wonder why my cross-compiling sdl-config returns a -Dmain=SDL_main in the CFLAGS
[21:29:42] <wjp> seems fairly useless
[21:29:57] <wjp> (since including SDL.h already takes care of that)
[21:32:54] <wjp> right, cross-compiling the tools from linux for windows seems to be working now as well
[21:35:10] <wjp> now I should somehow convince the build system that the console tools don't really need SDL
[21:39:04] <megawatt> any more thought on the weighted grid?
[21:39:42] <wjp> lots of potential pitfalls I think
[21:40:43] <megawatt> I'll hold off for now then...
[21:42:49] <megawatt> I do need to program something soon though... probably more work on the gimp-plugin.
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[23:10:47] <Shakkara> Gotcha! Thanks guys, look what I've done: 01,9912http://,99
[23:10:51] <Shakkara> heheheh
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[23:19:36] <wjp> Kirben: I made some possibly invasive changes to some core pentagram files; I hope Makefile.mingw still works properly
[23:22:30] <Kirben> ok, will check.
[23:24:54] <wjp> no hurry; just so that you know I'm to blame if something suddenly isn't working :-)
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[23:30:31] <Kirben> Tools still compile fine, with no link errors.
[23:42:41] <wjp> good to hear
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