#pentagram@irc.freenode.net logs for 27 Mar 2005 (GMT)

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[00:23:25] <megawatt> grrr... I'm missing out on a lot of the fun code.. stupid school.
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[01:21:27] <megawatt> ah... intro with sound... glorious!
[01:43:24] <megawatt> Anyway... I've been thinking again (oh no, not again!) that we have a lot of nice code in pentagram that could be useful for other c++ programs as well.... at some point I'd like to make a LGPL lib outta some of it (and dub it "RePent")... stuff like the file io and parameter parsing bits... not that I'm saying pentagram should link to it (although that might not be bad either)..... anyway... I'll shut the hell now ;-)
[01:47:59] <megawatt> * hell up
[01:51:36] <megawatt> anyway.. I should also ask if that is even possible under the GPL to relicense bits to be LGPL...I need to read up a bit
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[03:23:01] <fiumisporchi> hi there
[03:24:56] <fiumisporchi> i'm getting an error when i try to "demo" the guardian's voice
[03:25:17] <fiumisporchi> the output says "Error: No AudioProcess"
[03:26:13] <fiumisporchi> i wasn't sure if there was something i configured wrong.
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[08:01:20] <wjp> megawatt: no, it isn't possible under the GPL to relicense bits to be LGPL; but it is of course possible to relicense your own code any way you want :-)
[08:03:02] <Colourless> if all of us who worked on pentagram agree we can relicence bits of it
[08:03:19] <wjp> yes
[08:03:20] <Colourless> problem comes though as some bits come from exult
[08:03:29] <Colourless> and perhaps other place
[08:03:58] <Colourless> i would like to see it though
[08:04:31] <wjp> I'm not sure if I'd prefer LGPL or GPL for such a project
[08:07:31] <wjp> random thoughts: text input widgets
[08:08:01] <wjp> it would be nice to somehow separate the text input logic from the console and any other text input widgets into some common subclass
[08:08:21] <wjp> (or a member object; doesn't necessarily have to be a subclass)
[08:09:18] <Colourless> yeah that was one of my original thoughts
[08:10:00] <Colourless> so you are meaning a widget that handles the text input
[08:10:13] <Colourless> that can be used by anything
[08:10:20] <wjp> well, 'something'; not necessarily a widget as such
[08:11:22] <wjp> could also be a class that you pass events to and that you query for what the current text is
[08:11:46] <Colourless> hmmmt
[08:11:50] <Colourless> that is an interesting idea
[08:12:55] <wjp> could also put some more advanced editing logic in there then. (deleting whole words/lines, moving the cursor whole words, copy/paste, ...)
[08:13:38] <Colourless> i'd like to see mouse selection for copy and paste
[08:14:00] <Colourless> mostly useful on the console though... but it's not really somethnig that is really required
[08:14:36] <wjp> or if you'd like to copy the essay you wrote as a savegame description :-)
[08:38:51] <Colourless> hey.. i've got a linux q for you.. i want to set up one of my machines here to be a linux router+firewall.. what would you suggest
[08:55:33] <wjp> hm, as a distro, you mean?
[08:57:09] <Colourless> yes that would be a beginning :-)
[08:57:30] <wjp> I'd personally use fedora I think
[08:58:42] * Colourless nods
[09:01:04] <Colourless> thinking that would probably end up being best, considering 'compatibility' wise
[09:16:51] * Colourless starts to download fedora isos from his isp mirrors... with something that big he is not going to waste his monthly download quote by downloading from somewhere else
[09:25:56] <wjp> yeah... those things are becoming huge
[09:26:05] <wjp> in the good old days it used to fit on a single CD :-)
[09:29:05] <wjp> I have to go; I'll be back later today
[09:31:35] <Colourless> ok cya round
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[12:37:32] <sbx> "Yes, Avatar. Seek a way home."
[13:10:57] <oaQ^> exactly
[13:13:11] <oaQ^> Shouldn't some installation program for U8 also be created?
[13:13:31] <oaQ^> or some script that fetches correct files from u8 cd
[13:25:42] <sbx> yes at least the u6shapes.cmp decoder should be part of pentagram
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[16:24:46] <wjp> back
[16:31:34] <sbx> alright
[16:32:21] <wjp> hm, installer... yes... eventually :-)
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[16:41:45] <sbx> hi Dark-Star
[16:41:54] <Dark-Star> hi
[16:47:39] <Colourless> problem with installer is of course that the original u8 cds were compressed with arf
[16:47:41] <Colourless> *arj
[16:48:10] <Colourless> and getting a decompressor that is GPL compatible is a problem
[16:48:50] <Colourless> then again...
[16:49:13] <oaQ^> indeed
[16:49:23] <wjp> we could make it a separate program
[16:49:40] <wjp> with a license along the lines of "you can do whatever you want with this as long as you respect unarj's license"
[16:50:20] <oaQ^> and unarj is freeware?
[16:50:34] <oaQ^> and redistributable?
[16:51:00] <wjp> the restriction on distribution is that you can't use it in a program which is also an archiver
[16:51:05] <wjp> IIRC...
[16:51:35] <wjp> which makes it incompatible with the GPL
[16:51:57] <Colourless> http://www.7-zip.org/ is LGPL and has arj support
[16:52:33] <wjp> hm, I have a bit of a (possibly irrational) dislike against 7zip ever since someone spammed a number of IRC channels promoting it
[16:52:36] <wjp> :-)
[16:54:13] <oaQ^> we could use 7zip library then
[16:54:17] <Colourless> don't think the code would be easily integratable
[16:54:48] <oaQ^> well, i suggest making a separate installer script/program
[16:55:52] <wjp> bbl; dinner
[16:56:18] <Colourless> well gee http://arj.sourceforge.net/
[16:56:28] <Colourless> says it's GPL
[16:56:33] <Colourless> :-)
[16:57:02] <oaQ^> :)
[16:58:26] <Colourless> so.. that is a good thing
[16:59:46] <megawatt> indeed
[16:59:57] <Dark-Star> how about unpacking the ARJ files in a similar way to how "dcmpsound" decompressed the audio stuff? ;-)
[17:00:54] <oaQ^> well but we don't need all stuff inside arj files
[17:01:02] <Dark-Star> except that thois would be overkill :)
[17:01:08] <Dark-Star> s/thois/this
[17:08:36] <megawatt> overkill is cool... i think
[17:08:51] <sbx> which is why megawatt > watt
[17:10:10] <sbx> I never knew DR-DOS was an abbreviation for something.
[17:10:31] <sbx> I always said "Doctor Dos".
[17:18:29] <wjp> Colourless: ah, nice find :-)
[17:24:14] <sbx> http://sourceforge.jp
[17:24:14] <wjp> I wonder if it's possible to decompress u8shapes.cmp on the fly
[17:24:32] <Colourless> should be possible
[17:24:46] <wjp> current code is moderately slow I think
[17:25:02] <Colourless> we discussed once how to 'properly' decode the shapes
[17:25:02] <sbx> so you're saying there should be no speed difference
[17:25:13] <Colourless> and actually use the rle data in the compressed shapes
[17:25:22] <Colourless> the arj source code is... a bit of a mess...
[17:25:46] <wjp> hm, using the compressed shapes directly is a bit tricky
[17:26:17] <wjp> from what I remember, you really need the uncompressed version of the previous frame to decompress a frame
[17:27:22] <oaQ^> is the data in u8shapes file really uncompressed raw data?
[17:27:35] <Colourless> no
[17:27:49] <Colourless> u8shapes.flx contains RLE compressed shapes
[17:27:49] <oaQ^> so it has some kind of RLE or something like that
[17:28:10] <Colourless> u8shapes.cmp contains shapes that a diff'd against the previous frame
[17:28:28] <oaQ^> ah, I see
[17:28:56] <oaQ^> would there be any benefit from compressing uncompressed shapefile images using png or similar?
[17:29:42] <Colourless> big disadvantage actually
[17:29:47] <oaQ^> ok
[17:29:51] <wjp> hm, they might become smaller; but it's not like the shapes are that big nowadays
[17:30:13] <wjp> and either rendering or loading would become rather slower
[17:30:28] <sbx> well that would suck then
[17:30:41] <Colourless> and tracing clicks to shapes would be very slow
[17:31:56] <Dark-Star> how about loading them on demand, uncompressing them (all frames of a shape at once) and keeping them cached in memory (LRU or similar)?
[17:32:25] <sbx> yes, that was what I thought you meant at first
[17:32:43] <Dark-Star> and maybe preload all "near" frames on entering an area
[17:32:56] <wjp> Dark-Star: yeah, that's what I meant
[17:33:00] <Dark-Star> ok
[17:33:39] <Dark-Star> I thought you meant real "on-the-fly" (i.e. on-demand decompression)
[17:34:05] <wjp> I was a bit vague :-)
[17:40:15] <Colourless> using the arj archiver source will be difficult (considering that it's the actual source to the real arj archiver) but doesn't look like an impossible roblem
[17:40:26] <Colourless> need to strip out all the crap we don't ned
[17:41:04] <oaQ^> hmm
[17:41:16] <oaQ^> why don't you just compile arj archiver as is, and use that
[17:42:55] <sbx> just tell the users to do it :)
[17:42:58] <sbx> ok i have to go bbl
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[17:43:09] <Colourless> if we wanted to do that, we could just tell the users to get unarj, compile it and just use that
[17:50:08] <Colourless> ARJ_ARCV.C seems to contain all the 'relevant' functions to work with an arj archive
[17:51:14] <oaQ^> with linux game installation script we could just use regular unrar
[17:51:38] <wjp> unarj
[17:52:15] <oaQ^> yes
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[18:22:21] <oaQ^> I'm testing out pentagram with my new 64-bit gentoo linux system, at it seems to be running fine
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[18:22:50] <trin> hi
[18:23:17] <wjp> oaQ^: good to hear:-)
[18:23:25] <wjp> hi trin
[18:23:34] <oaQ^> hi
[18:24:15] <trin> @wjp: did you fix that problem with the text alignment and the u8 font?
[18:24:48] <trin> i still have the problem that the cheater menu is not fully visible on the screen using the original font
[18:25:20] <oaQ^> yes i noticed same
[18:41:47] <wjp> well, the spacing issues are fixed
[18:42:01] <wjp> the positioning is still the same, though
[18:42:54] <oaQ^> is it already possible to play game from end to end?
[18:44:18] <wjp> there are still a few plot-stopping bugs around
[18:45:08] <wjp> well, actually only one that I know of
[18:45:16] <wjp> but there might be more
[18:51:54] <oaQ^> well, it seems to hang on conversation with lithos at least
[18:55:15] <wjp> ok, two then :-)
[18:55:32] <oaQ^> umm, didn't hang on the second time
[18:55:45] <wjp> can you file a bug report with a savegame of just before that point?
[18:56:01] <oaQ^> ok
[18:56:08] <wjp> https://sourceforge.net/tracker/?group_id=53819&atid=471706
[18:56:14] <oaQ^> but it didn't happen on the second time
[18:56:19] <oaQ^> using same save file
[18:56:57] <wjp> ok, be sure to mention that in the report as well
[18:57:46] <wjp> there are probably still a few usecode synchronization issues around; it's good to know of as many potential problems as possible
[18:58:31] <oaQ^> maybe it hanged on the first time because i accidently deleted lithos's head with middle click :)
[19:02:13] <Colourless> that might make a difference
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[19:45:14] <wjp> I should probably remove that delete-item cheat
[19:45:29] <wjp> it was useful at the time but it's also an accident waiting to happen :-)
[21:13:54] <oaQ^> no, delete-item cheat is useful
[21:17:36] <wjp> even then, it probably shouldn't be behind the middle mouse
[21:29:20] <oaQ^> :D perhaps not
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