#pentagram@irc.freenode.net logs for 28 Feb 2006 (GMT)

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[00:02:45] <wjp> it does add a libpng dependency of course :/
[00:06:31] <wjp> I should probably be going; bye
[00:33:33] <Colourless> libpng is not a 'big' dependency. can be linked static and like most commercial games use it too
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[21:04:05] <megawatt> hey guys - just ran into one of thos interesting case sensitivity issues in subversion for windows here at work.
[21:05:09] <megawatt> co-worker added PostTx.pyi when PostTx.PYI was already there.
[21:06:20] <megawatt> solution was 'svn del http://path_to_svn/PostTx.PYI'
[21:07:03] <megawatt> so yeah, the case sensitivity issues aren't really too hard to solve.
[21:09:33] <wjp> hi watt
[21:09:39] <wjp> that's good to hear
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[22:08:38] <wjp> menu: http://www.math.leidenuniv.nl/~wpalenst/pentmenu.png
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[22:11:25] <wjp> hi Kirben, Colourless
[22:11:36] <Kirben> Hi
[22:24:44] <megawatt> oh.. nice... menu good!
[22:26:09] <wjp> suggestions on how to scale things to 640x480 are welcome :-)
[22:28:49] <Colourless> hi
[22:29:08] * megawatt waves
[22:29:36] <Colourless> scale things?
[22:29:55] <megawatt> Do we draw the gradient or render it from an image?
[22:30:34] <wjp> Colourless: http://www.math.leidenuniv.nl/~wpalenst/pentmenu.png
[22:30:38] <wjp> it's drawn
[22:30:48] <wjp> so the gradient part is easy :-)
[22:30:52] <Colourless> yeah looking good willem :-)
[22:31:29] <megawatt> hmmm... looks like the dummy url I gave earlier is actually a real url to debian's svn server.... that's wierd
[22:31:31] <wjp> total image size at 52Kb
[22:34:29] <megawatt> actually... hold on.. that was firefox using google's "I feel lucky" search
[22:34:58] <megawatt> strange that the http:// wouldn't stop firefox from doing that on my computer
[22:37:27] <Colourless> so willem what do you mean by scale things?
[22:37:58] <wjp> the png I gave is at 640x400
[22:38:14] <wjp> while it should probably at least run in 640x480 and 640x400
[22:38:41] <wjp> although I could probably just make it fit in 640x480 and cut off the bottom in 640x400
[22:40:58] <Colourless> well we want the games list scrolling and the flaming side bar can probably just be cut off
[22:41:21] <Colourless> or... scale it...
[22:43:14] <Colourless> should be able to have a ScalerGump as a child of the PentagramMenuGump containing the sidebar
[22:43:34] <Colourless> and set to bilinear/point and have your arbitrary scaling
[22:44:23] <wjp> heh, nice :-)
[22:45:01] <wjp> maybe the top part should be separate to avoid stretching the circular pentagram
[22:45:32] * megawatt nods
[22:47:10] <megawatt> would be interesting to see what the scaling would do to it overall
[22:48:51] <megawatt> probably would want to force a certain scaler instead of what the user picked for this kind of thing.
[22:49:49] <megawatt> btw... how do our scalers behave when trying to scale down rather than up - never thought to play with that before.
[22:50:44] <wjp> playing in 160x100 or so is no problem with 'point' :-)
[22:51:38] <wjp> although it looks bad when moving around due to aliasing
[22:51:56] <Colourless> bilinear should look 'nice'
[22:52:14] <wjp> it has the same issues when moving, though
[22:56:35] <Colourless> hmm
[22:56:43] <Colourless> i wonder if bilinear is working at a 2x scale downscale..
[22:57:55] <Colourless> it's not
[22:58:07] <wjp> so you get point?
[22:58:42] <Colourless> yes
[22:59:27] <Colourless> do a window size of 161x101
[22:59:32] <Colourless> with bilinear
[23:01:25] <Colourless> hmm forgot the sidebar has an alpha channel and can't scale that...
[23:01:54] <Colourless> unless you make the entire background scaled
[23:03:27] <Colourless> so you have the gradiant, sidebar and pentagram text drawn to the 640x480 scalergump and you then scale that to fit the actual window size and then draw games list unscaled on top
[23:04:00] <Colourless> or prebake the gradiant into the sidebar
[23:04:07] <Colourless> which may or may not work correctly
[23:04:22] <wjp> it's already semi-added to the sidebar currently
[23:04:57] <wjp> so that there's no partial transparency
[23:09:02] <Colourless> should be able to ensure that the sidebar scaled has the same gradiant as the background
[23:09:28] <Colourless> would just end up being a case of rounding
[23:09:58] <wjp> http://www.math.leidenuniv.nl/~wpalenst/pentmenu480.png
[23:10:00] <wjp> http://www.math.leidenuniv.nl/~wpalenst/pentmenu400.png
[23:10:09] <wjp> (for now)
[23:14:13] <Colourless> it's probably fine like that
[23:14:26] <Colourless> most people wont run the menu at 640x400
[23:14:36] <Colourless> it wont be the default
[23:15:04] <Colourless> and a lot of systems sometime have 'issues' running at that res nowdays. Not seen as important to support those old VGA resolutions
[23:16:14] <wjp> I run at it because I don't really like how it looks with aspect correction
[23:17:30] <wjp> committed
[23:19:01] <Colourless> taking menu vs in game
[23:19:14] <Colourless> pentagram support changing res between menu and game
[23:19:28] <Colourless> menu can run at 640x480 and then switching to 640x400 for the game
[23:20:38] <wjp> true
[23:24:13] <wjp> by the way. the japanese version would really benefit from our old 'use alpha channel as z-buffer' idea to implement unscaled fonts
[23:24:35] <wjp> those characters can really use the extra resolution
[23:25:45] <wjp> maybe I'll give implementing it a shot soon
[23:26:20] <Colourless> hmm or i could...
[23:26:36] <Colourless> i did sort of implement the entire graphics system
[23:28:53] <wjp> if you have the time, I'd appreciate it
[23:29:14] <Colourless> i'll look at it on sunday
[23:29:22] <wjp> I was thinking of either adding a new Gump in between the top-level ones, or maybe adding it to one of the existing top-level ones
[23:30:13] <wjp> each text-rendering operation would mark its region with a z-value, store that same z-value in the RenderedText object and put it in a list somewhere in that top-level Gump
[23:30:47] <wjp> text-rendering would have to be done at full scale, with the dimensions used for typesetting scaled down to the game resolution
[23:31:50] <wjp> It probably would be 'good enough' to look up the z-buffer values in the unscaled game-res buffer, so the scalers could ignore it
[23:31:53] <Colourless> sounds complicated
[23:32:56] <wjp> hm, maybe :-)
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[23:34:32] <wjp> an easier solution would be good, of course
[23:51:29] <wjp> good night
[23:57:57] <Colourless> night